Liverpool and Arsenal Roundtable: Questions About the Season So Far (Part One)

Welcome along to the first of a series of articles that will ask questions and seek answers from a group of Bleacher Report writers from two different communities.

Both sets of the communities' writers will answer questions on their own club as well as the questions aimed at the writers of the opposition team.

There will also be Bleacher Report writers involved from communities outside of the two clubs in question—hopefully providing a different perspective from three different directions.

This edition will focus on Liverpool and Arsenal and will speak to community members from the club's respective Bleacher communites, as well as members from the Manchester United community here on B/R.

In part one of a three-part edition we will talk to Liverpool community writers Barney Corkhill and Mick Menace.

We will also have the contributions of Maire O'Feire, Shyam Parthasarathi, and A Gooner from the B/R Arsenal community.

Steven Ho from the Manchester United Community will also include his perspective on the issues involving Liverpool and Arsenal.

The Questions and Answers

1. What do you believe to be the main reasons why Liverpool and Arsenal have failed so far this season?

Barney Corkhill: I don't think Liverpool have failed this season.

We've continued our progression under Rafael Benitez and just because it looks like we missed out on the title—which very few expected us to even be challenging for this season—it doesn't mean we have failed this season.

Ironically, I think there would be less talk about a failed season had we not challenged for the title, as it built up some people's expectations!

As for Arsenal, I think the main reason they have had a poor season is youth, inexperience, and lack of bite.

I have no doubt that this current Arsenal team will become a force to be reckoned with in the coming years if Wenger manages to keep them together, and indeed keep his own job.

The performances by Aston Villa have also highlighted the poor showing of Arsenal.

I think If Villa weren't doing so well, there would be a lot less talk about Arsenal having such a poor season.

Maire O'Feire: Looking in from the outside, I feel that the problems off the pitch have had too much effect on the pitch for Liverpool. With Hicks, Gillette, Parry, and Rafa not getting along or breaking into their own groups, it has had serious knock on effects.

The whole Robbie Keane affair looked worse for Liverpool than it did the player. Does Rafa really not have enough say at the club to block a player coming in?

Could you honestly see Ferguson or Wenger being made to accommodate a player they did not want?

I think Rafa must also take some blame. This was a huge opportunity for Liverpool to win the League for the first time in nearly two decades and you have to say he blew it trying to get one over the board.

Why sell Keane and not bring in another proven forward? Apart from Torres they have no striker that would put fear into the minds of the opposition defenders. Also his team selections at times have been baffling.
 
It's the same old same-old for Arsenal this season with Wenger not getting the cheque book out in the summer. We need two strong players in our first team: A Vidic-type defender and a Vieira-type midfielder.

Wenger can point to injuries, as at times we have had up and above five first team players out—but he should have taken this into account at the start of the season.

Rosicky has had a torrid time with injuries, and we all knew Walcott had weak arms.

The knock on affect of the injuries has resulted in Arsenal putting out a very weak midfield more often that not—Eboue, Song, Denilson, and Nasri. Personally I like Denilson, and I think Arsenal fans would appreciate him more if he had better players around him.

Eboue is back-up to Sagna; Song is too slow and Nasri has been a more than adequate replacement for Hleb, but the four together do not make a good midfield and our midfield has been our main problem.

Mick Menace: The main failing is the same for both clubs: Lack of real squad depth.

Liverpool lack depth in attack, especially on the wings, whilst Arsenal lack depth in defence and midfield. Liverpool's problems are very expensive to fix, whereas I think you could address Arsenal's deficiencies more cheaply.

Simply put: attacking players are more expensive than defenders.

Financial muscle is a big problem for both, although much more so for Liverpool. An excellent piecethis week on the LFC website by Tomkins showed the comparative squad cost for the top five most expensive teams.

Man United's current squad cost approximately 240 million and Liverpool's squad cost approximately 130 million. Chelsea was close to Man United and Spurs and Man City were above Liverpool.

I have to imagine that if you took that difference of 110 million and spent it on four or five attacking players you would see less home draws at Anfield.

Shyam Parthasarathi: It's odd, but with regards to Liverpool's season, I see a lot of parallels with Arsenal's last season—a great start; a sticky patch in the middle and Manchester United beating them to the punch in January/February.

I just don't think that there is enough quality in Liverpool's squad.

Benayoun is a decent player, but isn't top class and Liverpool are struggling especially in the full back positions where Mascherano even played once.

Albert Riera is a decent player, but again, isn't top class and with Torres' injuries constantly hampering him this season, it is not difficult to see the team suffering.

Arsenal, on the other hand, haven't been good enough. It was the indifference of the first half of the season that has caused them to be in their current predicament.

The deficiencies are there for everyone to see and have been repeated time and again, so I don't want to go into them to bore everyone again. 

A Gooner: As an Arsenal supporter, I don't see this season yet as one of abject failure.

Arsenal are still very much "in it" by being involved in the FA Cup and the Champions League—and qualifying for the Champions League is still very much a real possibility for the Gunners. 

The team has not lost in 17 straight matches, and has recently returned to scoring some goals. Some much needed players have and continued to return to first team availability, and other players are starting to improve dramatically over the form they showed just a few games ago.

Things are looking up, and I have been a firm believer that the FA Cup was a real possibility for Arsenal this year.

As for Liverpool, I think they have suffered at the hands of Rafa.

The man can't seem to leave things well enough alone, and the circus around Keane and the fact that Rafa's first team selections seem to defy all fan expectations points to something very truly wrong with the man and his relationship to the team.

The whole "these are facts" charade was absolutely pathetic. I don't know any Liverpool fan who is happy with the ownership or management situation at that club, and I think Rafa is a liability more than a masterful tactician or inspiring coach. 

Liverpool seem to fail despite seemingly having no squad weaknesses, and the fact that Rafa feels like he has to point out that the team misses Torres makes you wonder what he ever saw in Keane?

Benitez makes me thankful that Arsenal have Wenger.

2. Where do you honestly believe Liverpool and Arsenal will finish this season and with how many points from first place?

Barney Corkhill: In Liverpool's case, I think it depends on our result at Old Trafford.

I honestly believe that if we win there, we will go on to win the title. If we draw I think we'll come second, probably five to eight points off the top and if we lose we will probably end up third with some 10-12 points off the top.

For Arsenal, I think they will end up a good 20 points from first place. They will drop points, as will whoever wins the league when they've wrapped it up.

Their main focus can't be on finishing a certain amount of points off the top though, they have to just finish with more points than Villa. Otherwise, I think a lot of their top players will leave in the summer, causing Wenger's rebuilding period to be started all over again!

Maire O'Feire: At the start of the season and even at the turn of the year, I thought Liverpool would continue to challenge Manchester United because, let's be honest, we all knew United would come back fighting.

Honestly, I think Liverpool will finish behind both United and Chelsea (in that order) and may finish in double figures behind United—it'll be at least 10 points. I hope I am wrong for the sake of the league, but that's how I feel right now.

As for Arsenal, I am very confident that we will get back to fourth at least. However, I would rather not think about how far we will finish behind United.

Mick Menace: Liverpool will probably finish third but maybe second, since I think Guss will have problems with Chelsea before the end of the season.

Arsenal should finish fourth, because I think Aston Villa are pretty much done for the season. Liverpool will be about 12-15 points behind Man United and Arsenal about five behind Liverpool.

Shyam Parthasarathi: Third and fourth respectively. How many points? That, I honestly cannot answer, but it will be a lot!

A Gooner: I don't see Liverpool catching United; I can't see Chelsea doing that either.

I see Liverpool staying in third and Arsenal coming in to fourth, as Villa will not wind up getting more points against the traditional "Top 4" as Arsenal will have.

From my perspective, you "graduate" into the "Top 4" in the EPL, not just from the points you amass, but in how you do against the rest of the Top 4.

Arsenal should end up with more points than Villa in that regard, and thus, these will be the deciding factors in who will qualify for Europe's elite club competition next year.

3. What effect will this position and points tally have on the club and manager?

BC: For Liverpool, not much. Hopefully, people will be able to see Rafa's progression has continued, and will be expecting an even bigger title challenge next season.

I think he will have one more season at least to prove his style is working.

If Arsenal finish outside the top four, I think it will have a massive effect on the club—unless they win the Champions League.

I don't think it is the start of Arsenal's demise if they finish outside the top four, but they have to be careful. Adebayor, Fabregas and Van Persie have all been rumoured to say they will leave if they don't qualify for the Champions League, and I think they may well do.

The biggest loss for Arsenal could be Wenger, though.

He's been coming in for a lot of stick lately and if they only qualify for the UEFA Cup, I think he might be given the boot—which is just ridiculous. Only four years ago, he was the best manager in the world after leading them to an unbeaten season!

MO: I know most Liverpool fans really like Rafa, but I can't see them ever winning the league under him.

Yes, they have progressed under him but not enough to beat Ferguson and United—that old Scotsman is a clever bugger and it takes a special manager to beat him.

In recent years, only Wenger, Mourinho, and Daglish have managed it.

It is all nice and well that Rafa is doing extremely well in Europe, but if Liverpool fans are honest, what they really want is the Premier League and the question must be asked: can Rafa deliver it?
 
Wenger will have to get out the cheque book and spend what needs to be spent on buying the two players I have previously mentioned. He needs to tweak his youth policy so that Arsenal have a better combination of young players and old, experienced heads.

Arsenal fans want to be challenging for the title and not for fourth place. For the first time there has been serious questions asked about Wenger at Arsenal and hopefully he can respond in the right manner.

MM: Liverpool fans will sit shiva for the summer and the management will begin the search for Rafa's successor after he resigns—probably to go to Inter Milan.

This will begin the worst period in Liverpool history since Shankly—unless someone with very deep pockets can be found to spend 100 million on players.

Most of the Spaniards will leave Liverpool within two years, and Gerrard will immediately sign for Man City or maybe Chelsea.

Arsenal fans will complain about no trophy but will accept that Arsene knows what he's doing and will keep the faith for another two years—at which point it will be too late.

Cesc moves to Real Madrid or Barcelona in the summer—probably Barcelona—leaving Arsenal in even more trouble.

SP: As far as Liverpool are concerned, the fans will definitely be disappointed with the team, because they were on top for quite awhile. But, all things considered, they aren't ready yet.

I think that Arsenal fans have all said whatever they've had to say, but their reactions with regards to the season will be determined by what happens in the FA Cup and the Champions League.

If Arsenal finish fourth in the league, all the fans will be satisfied, especially considering where they were last week.

AG: One word: "nothing."

Arsene is Arsenal, Arsenal is Arsene. He is our coach, he is the man who changed EPL football forever, and he will continue to do so, on his terms.

He has amazing stamina and mental fortitude for a man in his position. The only man I feel is a better manager, is Demento—aka Sir Alex—but that is because I feel Demento is a "coach" first and a manager second.

Arsene has revolutionized Arsenal FC and Arsenal PLC., whilst Demento has only had to worry about the team, his players, and getting 110 percent from them.

It is said, when you play for Arsenal, you are a Gunner. When you play at Old Trafford, you play for Ferguson. You could transplant Man United to any other city, and they would be the same thing because of Sir Alex.

Without him, United would be nothing. Without Wenger, Arsenal would be nothing.

People think Tottenham are Arsenal's biggest rivals, but it really is United. We have so much to respect and admire about United, as they exude some of the characteristics that make Arsenal beatable.

At the same time, United are a very direct team; they win by dominance of power whilst Arsenal win by dominance of possession.

Both are deadly, but decidedly different.

An Arsenal highlight is minutes long, a United highlight is a few seconds. Both change the game, but in different ways. I respect United for their results but I feel people love watching Arsenal play.

The results will come (back) in time as Wenger is revolutionizing the team again.

4. Do you think its wrong for supporters and pundits to think Liverpool and Arsenal can honestly challenge for the league against quite possibly one of the best teams ever constructed in football history?

Steven Ho: I think that it's completely right that both team's supporters have high expectations for their teams.

The only thing I don't like is how binary people's reactions are—win and everything's perfect, lose and 'let's sack the manager'.

Unfortunately that's today's climate amongst fans. You've written much about it Jamie and I completely agree with you.

BC: Definitely not in the case of Liverpool.

Yes, compared to Chelsea and Manchester United, we lack depth and resources—although with two multi-billionaires in charge, we really shouldn't—but we have proven this season that we can challenge for the title, so of course pundits and supporters should believe we can!

I think if we can spend another £30 million or so on two, three or maybe even four new players—a winger, a left-back, and an out-and-out goalscorer—we can seriously challenge.

We have what I consider the best goalkeeper, one of the best defences, perhaps the best midfield, and one of the best strikers. The spine of our team is very strong, it's just a few more match winners we need now to be able to compete with United.

I do, however, think it's wrong they compare this Arsenal side to the likes of United and Chelsea. The current Arsenal squad is, quite frankly, poor.

Wenger has done a fantastic job keeping them in contention for a Champions League spot, particularly with all the injuries they have suffered.

The Arsenal team has limitless potential, but it is still a transitional period for them, and they have a poor squad compared to the other big boys.

MO: No, of course not. Both are big clubs with expectations of at least challenging for the title. It is up to the respective club managers and boards to see this happens.

Remember neither Liverpool or Arsenal have lost to either of the other "big four" teams this season, it is against the lower sides that they are losing points.

MM: Fans have always been unrealistic. However the ascent of Man United to its current position is based on being vastly richer than everyone else.

This is a recent phenomenon in English football and Liverpool fans are as guilty of living in the past when it comes to their club. The values of the 70's or 80's no longer apply.

Competing at the top level in England now requires very deep pockets and Fifa's 6+5 rule will only make this problem worse.

SP: I frankly don't think that pundits said that Liverpool and Arsenal would "challenge" Manchester United this season.

With regards to supporters, they have the right to believe in their team, it isn't unreasonable for supporters to think that their team can challenge for the title.

However, they shouldn't call for the boss' head in the middle of the season, considering it's this juggernaut of a Manchester United team that they're dealing with.

AG: Pundits and supporters will always have an opinion, and I don't honestly think anyone is wrong in having their opinion.

We are still in an era of Ferguson dominance. He is a domineering person, as a coach.

On the touchline, he is a maniacal beast; in press conferences, he's a contemplative mild-mannered Scotsman. He is a hard man to beat, but his team, like any football team, is beatable.

On any given day, Arsenal or Liverpool have every right to feel that they can challenge United. They have to also realize that United look at every game, regardless of who it is, as a game to win to beat their rivals.

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So that brings part one to a close and a big "thank you" must go to each of the contributors for their time and participation in this edition of Bleacher Communities Roundtable.

Part two and part three will follow very soon and the BCR team will be researching the next edition of questions and looking for the next two communities to fire them at.

Thanks for reading.