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I wished Tyrone Willingham well. I believe he is a generally well-intentioned person with good moral values. To his credit, he has never said anything against Notre Dame, who finished paying his five year contract last year...

The Willingham Effect - Offensive Line Recruiting Under Ty and Charlie

by Michael Collins (Analyst)

34

18743 reads

Sports

July 13, 2008


I wished Tyrone Willingham well.  I believe he is a generally well-intentioned person with good moral values.  To his credit, he has never said anything against Notre Dame, who finished paying his five year contract last year.  Personal beliefs have played a big part in the Willingham firing drama.  I want my beliefs up front.   

 

Willingham’s impact on Notre Dame’s offensive line was devastating and contributed to his early departure.  Offensive line play is crucial for success in football. The adages – “Control the ball”, “Establish the run”, “Protect the passer” – come down to dominant offensive line play.  Successful teams have an experienced offensive line with upper class substitutes when starters are injured. 

 

In Willingham’s first season, 2002, Notre Dame’s Senior offensive line protected new skill position players – Carlyle Holliday at QB, Ryan Grant at RB, Arnez Battle at WR -and kept the Irish in every game.  Notre Dame had five talented senior starters on the offensive line.  Black, Mahon, Faine and Curtin were drafted into the NFL.  Mahonand Faine are still NFL starters in 2008.  Black is a reserve and still playing.  Curtin played two years for the Packers. 

 

ND's Offensive Line - When Davie Left 

 

2002              1st Team              2nd Team           Reserves          Davie

                                                                                             Recruits            

 

Seniors - 7    Jordan Black-Sr       LeVoir-So          Giles-So               Bonelli

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34 comments Last one added 8 months ago — Leave a Comment

  1. sven ghali 11 months ago

    Wow, this is the Rosetta Stone for the story behind 2007. I really enjoyed having all of this info laid out in one chronological piece.

    My one point of contention would be the 5th year eligibility of the '08 seniors. IrishEyes.com's '07 eligibility chart suggests all three will be moving on after this season.

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  2. Jerry Noonan 11 months ago

    I have been harping on OLine recruiting and the dramatic affect it had on ND for two years. Great article and thanks for putting it together. Ty was a lazy train-wreck of a coach. Nothing but a figurehead. Veneer.

    People want to look at ND's 2007 season as proof positive of Weis' inability to build / develop. How good would USC or Texas be if they recruited offensive linemen like Ty? ND haters will state that SC puts in their freshman on their oline and they perform. Difference is they are sandwiched between 5 star seniors. In 2007 we had ONE senior available. One. One. Thanks, Ty. Dr. White should have been canned for allowing that foolishness to persist. It's like Oreo's running out of stuff for the creme center. Mmmmm, Oreos.

    Thank goodness Davie (why did you hug RC at mid-field after that arse kicking?) understood football enough to have a decent amount of Olinemen for CW's arrival for the 2005 season.

    When ND has Senior recruits of CW along the Oline, CW's offense will flourish.

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  3. t bone 11 months ago

    this is perfect. what every hater needs to see, right there, laid out beautifully and objectively. great post, one of the best i've read this year. here come the irish...

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  4. Michael Collins 11 months ago

    Thanks, all. Sometimes these articles seem to fall into place. I enjoyed putting words to my research and, especially, to what seems to lie ahead for the Irish, Charlie and his staff. Corwin Brown, Rob Ianello and, this year, Brian Polian have done a terrific job. What can't be discounted is the stability provided to recruits by Weis's long-term contract. Sometimes I wonder why Davie's firing is never compared to Willingham's. Davie was let go with four years remaining.

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  5. Brian Maloney 11 months ago

    FYI - I believe Clelland is from MD not GA.

    Let's hope the Dline this year isn't the Oline from last...

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  6. Uncle Rico Touchdown Mountain 11 months ago

    Beautiful use of sarcasm in the first paragraph to suck in the reader.

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  7. James Flash 11 months ago

    Very interesting article. But Ryan Grant didn't attend CDH in Minnesota. Grant attended Don Bosco in New Jersey. I think you meant Rashon Powers-Neal.

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  8. Jerry Noonan 11 months ago

    Michael,

    Ty DID throw Notre Dame under the bus on National TV during his interview conducted by hack sport journalist John Saunders. Saunders asked Willingham if racism played a part in getting fired from Notre Dame and the molder of men responded that he could not "rule out" racism as being a factor in him being fired.

    Judge for yourself, I guess, if this merits the label of saying something negative in a public forum. To me it is right down the middle of the crooked fairway Saunders and Ty were playing that day. It was a - public lynching - of ND. I wished at that point Bobby Knight was ND's AD and he would rush Ty on that set and demolish him. Didn't happen, though.

    Saunders is in the same class as Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton who perpetuate the thought that racism runs everything. That's what puts millions in their collective pockets. Jesse Jackson exists only if America is divided. I digress.

    Willingham is a phoney. Saunders is a sad, pathetic figure using ABC as a forum for his hate mongering.

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  9. Michael Collins 11 months ago

    Thanks for the corrections, which have been made.

    Jerry,
    I prefer to let that interview with Saunders and Willingham, and any criticisms of Notre Dame be judged by the passage of time. Strong feelings existed within the Notre Dame community. As far as racism, after Weis was hired, the Black Coaches Association grade for Notre Dame was a "B" with only five schools getting As. Thirty schools were graded overall and seventeen were less than a B. Both ND's coordinators are African-American and the offensive line coach is Latino, under Weis. Weis is creating a "hiring tree" in which minority assistant coaches can get the kind of resume and experience that will qualify them for any D-I head coaching position. Weis does not hire them if he does not think they are the best qualified.
    All would be best served if any discussion on the merits of hiring or firing a coach emphasized how productive a coach had been towards meeting an institution's goals. Afterall, if anyone was on a Board of Directors paying a CEO $3 million a year, that would be the standard for retention.
    I still wish Willingham well.

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    • T Walsh 11 months ago

      That because the BCA membership was aware of Ty's flirtations with Washington BEFORE he was fired and while he was still the coach at ND. Did you ever wonder why the BCA sat on its hands and kept virtually quiet during the whole Willingham firing episode? Do you not think that the primary support group for promoting black coaches for advancement would have gone ballistic over one of their own being fired after 60% of his contract, and with a winning record? The BCA knew the situation, and they therefore said next to nothing.

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  10. Brian 11 months ago

    ND surrendered 58 sacks last year, not 19. 58 is still a record though.

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  11. michael Finn 11 months ago

    Ty- tanic didn't have to recruit at stanford the same way that is needed at ND. All he had to do out west was get superior students with the ability to play some football. It's a whole new ballgame at ND. The man couldn't sell the university, let alone himself. He told Dr. white after o'leary was hired, "You hired the wrong man, you should have hired me." Five days later, he was hired. And you all know the rest of the story. Not only did he not meet the expectations of the school and the fans, he failed to meet his own, for that matter. He even said so at his firing presser. Does he have any commits yet for 2009? If not, why not! Why can't haters see his lack of recruiting skills? Are they so filled with hate that they're truly blinded by it? What an f_ _ _ _ _ up world!! Sin is so prevelent.

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  12. Raj Kamruddin 11 months ago

    GREAT ARTICLE! Until the O-line has the talent to lineup face-to-face and look the other guy in the eyes with the same talent level, ND will not get back to the top. you did an excellent job breaking down the years and recruits. Too many people dismiss the bad job Ty did recruiting and try to pin everything on CW. Hard to win when you have fr/sophs playing key position players for the first time behind an inexperienced o-line.

    This is the research you dont find national sports media talking about. iTs much easier for sports people to- not do the reseach and then bash a team based soley on win-loss records.

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  13. Lisa Horne 11 months ago

    This gets my POTD...really outstanding research and explained beautifully! great job!

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  14. gee kay 11 months ago

    This is total BS

    You forgot to take into account injuries, last minute switches by recruits,as well as how many were on board at the time.

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  15. Brian 11 months ago

    Gee - you back up your argument so well. What facts do you disagree with? Have you done any research at all? Why would last minute switches by recruits even matter... it would still mean that Ty didn't get the guys he was trying for, right?

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  1. IRISHsubway FAN 11 months ago

    This is one of the best articles I have read so far since joining. I have had trouble stating what you have. You made it clear and concise, and left little to no room for rebuttal. You will get the luxury I have of the ND haters going on and on about "it's not Ty's fault". When you put it on paper, whose is it? Great work and I look forward to reading more from you.

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  2. Vincent Franco 11 months ago

    eye opening article... I now understand why last years line performed so poorly... the future looks bright!

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  3. Steve Hearne 11 months ago

    I'm no Willingham apologist, but I think the article somewhat overstates Willingham's fault on this. First, notice how poorly Davie was recruiting. Yes, he could get good recruits, but he never managed for need. How many QBs did we sign in 2000, 4? As you correctly point to Willingham's inability to recruit to needs, note that Davie had 1 Junior OL and his 4 sophomores weren't the strongest. The large class of freshmen probably had an effect on the number of recruits willing to commit in Willingham's first year.

    That said, I agree that Willingham's recruiting after his first year was atrocious, though he did manage to get 5 O-lineman rather than the three you suggest. Let's just agree that Weis is doing a better job on the recruiting front and was a far better choice than either Davie or Willingham. Let's just hope he can turn the team around this year and start ND on a huge roll.

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    • Uncle Rico Touchdown Mountain 11 months ago

      Davie did not recruit poorly. Willingham won with his recruits. Shane Walton, Vontez Duff & Co were so outstanding the team got on a roll without scoring an offensive touchdown.

      Willingham's fault will never ever be overstated, as that is not possible.

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  4. Ted Eberle 11 months ago

    If there was any doubt, it should be eliminated now. One would have to be dumb not to understand what happened to the Irish in '07. We will be back...sooner than later.

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    • Joe 11 months ago

      You can't count Shane Walton as a Davie recruit, he came to ND on a soccer scholarship. The fact that ND had to rely so heavily on its D in 2002 is a statement to Davie's recruiting on the offensive side of the ball.

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  5. William Cutting 11 months ago

    Consafo Says: Great read! Michael Collins your reporting is spot on with your year by year break down. All the clowns that disagree with what you wrote are hate mongers themselves so there no sense to please them. True ND followers know this is accurate, the sad thing is it takes so long to turn other coaches messes around. I have no doubt that Ty will get canned this year and we can all watch how long it takes UW to get back on track, probably 4 years or more. Looking forward to the start of this season!
    Go Irish!
    Go Fresno State!

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  6. Dreadnaught 11 months ago

    It was all Ara Parsegian's fault for not recruiting punters. But for that, the Irish would have won the last 9 bowl games.

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  7. bob rush 11 months ago

    This is exactly what I have been telling people ever since I saw the home opener against Georgia Tech last year, except that Collins did a magnificent job documenting everything in a thorough, year-by-year factual manner. I wish I had his specific info when I called sports talk show host and ND hater Dave Kaplan of WGN radio in Chicago to counter his trashing of Weis. Pure and simple, Willingham failed, and he dragged down the whole program in the process. But now we are coming back. Unfortunately, we are not totally done with the process. This year will be much better, but as Collins' article shows, you can't build a team overnight. I imagine we are still a year away.

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  8. Thomas Brown 11 months ago

    Great article bro

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  9. Isaac Luber 9 months ago

    Oh...I really didn't concentrate on the O-line when writing my article. I was concentrating more on the QB and skill players, who Weis could get more of in time. A lot of my friends in school have discussions about coaches, and this controversy comes up a lot. This info could help with my articles and with my school debates. Thanks for sending me the link for this article.

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  10. Andrew Nuschler 8 months ago

    Hey Michael,

    This is good if long. I might have broken it down in installments, but whatever.

    You make very good points and do so with impressive objectivity considering you must really love ND to have done so much careful research.

    I also appreciate how fairly you treat Willingham. As I've said, I'm no fan of his. But saying he can't be sure race played zero roll in his firing is quite different from throwing ND under the bus. Especially considering the way the situation looked superficially (i.e. extending Weiss after approximately the same performance that got TW fired). I mean, can anyone ever be sure race plays zero role in any decision between the races?

    I hesitate to write that last sentence lest it open a whole new round of "you idiot, ND isn't racist" blah blah blah from other people on here. That isn't what I'm saying and I trust you, having read my article with my more complete thoughts on the subject, understand that.

    Clearly I was wrong to lump you in with the Pink-Domers and thus accuse you of being biased to the point of absurdity. Mea culpa, mea culpa, a thousand times, mea culpa.

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    • Michael Collins 8 months ago

      Thanks, Andrew, for reading the long article. I appreciate your comments. Don't you think racism is a subset of generalization by category? We all do it, generalize, to help us through the day. I'm sure I have my biases.

      I have to admit to rooting for any ND coach to succeed.

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    • Andrew Nuschler 8 months ago

      I would say that what you are calling racism - generalization by category - is actually prejudice.

      And you're right, we all do use them to navigate daily life. I'd say racism, on the other hand, is when you refuse to acknowledge prejudice and operate on it alone i.e. you actually BEHAVE as if every loc'd out black man is a gangbanger rather than acknowledging this is just a prejudice formed by appearance and the reality could be much different.

      For instance, I grew up in a pretty much exclusively white suburb of SF. There just weren't many people of color so my main exposure until I got to college was via television i.e. athletics and the news. Would it be my fault if my subconscious default was to see every black man as either an athlete or a criminal? After all, I was born in 1978. Until the last decade or so, those were pretty much the only African-Americans on television.

      I say no. It only becomes my fault and problem if I actually operate on this default i.e. I actually go about my daily life believing every black man is an athlete or a criminal.

      I guess I'm saying that what I call prejudice is what is beyond our conscious control and racism is what results when we consciously follow these subconscious presets.

      Prejudice = neutral until we learn to control our subconscious; racism = bad

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    • Michael Collins 8 months ago

      What I am saying is that we generalize as a way of understanding our surroundings. When it moves into prejudice or discrimination, it is wrong, sometimes illegal. Sometimes, generalizations are due to laziness or ignorance. When we take the time to get to know individuals, sometimes generalizations dissolve and we understand more about ourselves.

      Ex. "Pink Domers" may be a term that someone feels adequately describes a group and could be derogatory. "He's a good n...." was used to understand a difference within a group, but the classification was racial, prejudicial, derogatory and wrong.

      There's little of that which is not outside an individual's choice or conscious control, though some factors in belief formation are societal.

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