From blogNYG.com
When evaluating the 2008 edition of the New York Giants, one must do several things first.
Articles written by Giants beat writers—not columnists—are to be read thoroughly. These writers are usually on the money. They deal in facts and shy away from wanton speculation. Believe them. If they write anything that isn't true, they don't stay in the job very long.
Stay away from any cursory observations. The national media does not understand how this franchise operates. Do not believe them.
I have been watching and following the Giants for the past 40 years with the passion of a Deadhead. I have been to many games in many cities over the past four decades. I have seen some of the best football in NFL history. I have also seen some of the worst.
When I speak or write about the Giants, I would advise you to pay attention.
I have been reading some ridiculous articles and comments about how the Giants will not succeed because they "lost too many key players". Don't believe it. Giants' GM Jerry Reese and his staff have been dead-on when it comes to personnel moves.
Case-in-point, all seven draft-choices from 2007 are still on the roster, and many of them contributed to the team's postseason success.
Let me debunk the ill-researched comments and predictions made by the uninformed NFL "experts". First, the three players they lost in free agency—S Gibril Wilson, OLB Kawika Mitchell, and OLB Reggie Torbor—were not core players. They all will be easily replaced.
Wilson was an above-average player–not a Pro-Bowler—but pretty good. The Giants were not pleased with his inability to cover in space. Terrell Owens, Jason Witten, and Chris Cooley all exposed him too often.
The Giants' pass rush made Wilson look better than he is. When he became a free agent, he was vastly overvalued by teams looking for secondary help. The Giants would have liked to have kept him, but felt he was replaceable.
When the Raiders came in with a $39 million offer, the Giants were out. That is an insane contract for this player.
The solution was to sign veteran Sammy Knight and draft a quality talent—Kenny Phillips. Knight is close to Wilson in production, and Phillips is wowing coaches at camp. These players will both make you forget Wilson quickly, if you haven't already.
OLB Kawika Mitchell played exactly one season for the Giants. When GM Jerry Reese signed him, many Giant fans had never heard of him. He led the Chiefs in tackles in 2006, but he struggled for the Giants for most of the regular season.
When he finally acclimated to the defensive scheme later in the year, Mitchell was very productive. Irreplaceable? Absolutely not.
50 comments Last one added 11 months ago — Leave a Comment
Bills_Will_B_OK 11 months ago
The NY Giants played the Patriots really hard in the last game of the season even tho they clinched a playoff spot already. GUTSY team !!! That's why they won, "No guts, No glory!"
I have watched Mitchell at the Bills training camp and all I can say is "thanks Giants for not matching the Bills offer!"
He adds Super Bowl experience and beating the division rival Patriots doesn't hurt. Really like this LB and plays hard always.
Your article has a really good intro and deserves the POTD!
Nice read
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John Fennelly 11 months ago
Thanks for reading...
JF
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Sean Crowe 11 months ago
It's always risky to completely change the chemistry of a championship team. Say what you want about the guys who left, they helped make up a team that achieved one of the greatest upsets in the history of sports.
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John Fennelly 11 months ago
Very true, but the Giants are compiling a lot talent ..with a coaching staff that has a clue how to make them into a team. All dissidents are sent packing,....you should know this because this is how the Pats do it
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Sean Crowe 11 months ago
The Pats do it with a hall of fame quarterback, an above average o-line, and a great defensive line. The Giants only have one of those things.
Seriously, you can treat every other position like an interchangeable part if you have a great quarterback, a great offensive line, and a great defensive line.
Look at some of the schmucks Brady's won with on offense... Antoine Smith? David Patten?
The Giants have a great defensive line, a hot and cold quarterback who spends most of his time cold, and a pretty good offensive line. I'm afraid they're looking at a "Patriots in 2002" type season. They overachieved, then got worse during the off-season. Not a good sign for 08.
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Osi Umenyiora 11 months ago
So "pretty good" isn't the same or better than "above average?" Make up your mind. Of course the Giants have 2 of those 3 things. Their o-line was very good all of last year, and btw are all under contract for at least the next five years.
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Sean Crowe 11 months ago
Meant to say two of those things, not one. Still not convinced you can win consistently with an inconsistent quarterback. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...
Nice to see football on TV again though. That's probably something we can both agree on. :)
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Osi Umenyiora 11 months ago
Yeah.
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russ autin 11 months ago
as a saints fan ,i'm happy to take shockey off your hands.he's a big upgrade for us.i haven't seen much of him in practice, he's been held out of most, but what i have seen is him out there encouraging his team mates from the sidelines run to pat meachem after a nice catch .also he brought a feeling with him, confidence .boss is a great replacement ,and 7picks is no excuse for not trading him before the draft, i mean the 40th pick.the saints pick next year should be much higher, making it worth less. i mean the 40th pick is almost first round . who was on the board at 40,he could have been your's.we were able to snag a nice cb . for us a double play,shockey and the 40 .thank you .
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L.J. Burgess 11 months ago
I honestly hope you're this happy with him in November.
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William Blake 11 months ago
Nice work! I think you are most definitely correct in your analysis and overall statement.
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John Fennelly 11 months ago
Thanks
JF
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Michael Schlossberg 11 months ago
John, you bring up some great points, but I disagree with one thing, Justin Tuck should not be starting at LE, this may sound crazy but he rushed the passer better from the DT spot, he should be playing all over the line spelling the interior guys on 3rd down and other passing situations but also should play a little bit of LE.... this may be a stretch but the San Antonio Spurs' best scorer is Manu Ginobli, who comes off of the bench. Why can't Tuck do the same?
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John Fennelly 11 months ago
The Giants may do just what you have suggested. If the play of the young LB corps is up to snuff, Kiwanuka will be used as a DE on passing downs, moving Justin into the the DT slot
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Vinny Gazzara 11 months ago
Your the first person i found on here who had the same opinions as me. Tuck should fill strahans hole on the field well. Also, you said Henderson was a 7th round pick, he was a 6th round pick, the giants traded their 7th round pick .
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John Fennelly 11 months ago
Vinny...this is more than just my opinion. We both know this team is a contender. A handful of changes are not going to matter in the long run. A guy leaves, there is another just as good - sometimes better - ready to step in.
Enjoy the season and thx for reading
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PJ Edelman 11 months ago
Good article. It made me feel a little better about this year, 'cause I am skeptical about this year's team. A few things: Gibril was a very good player, and he will be missed. Young CBs usually have it rough for the first year or 2. This isnt to say that the Giants' young CBs wont be good eventually, but they are young.
And Shockey. It's cute that Manning and Boss like each other. Unfortunately, Boss is no where close to the athlete that Shockey is. How many TEs can you name in the same sentence with him? Less than 5. I agree he drops a bunch, and he was a pain in the ass. Letting him go doesnt mean that the team gets better though.
And trusting Giants office...we'll see how their decisions turn out after the season. Assuming that they 'know what they are doing' is putting a lot of faith into them. Every team feels that, for the most part, their front office is making the right moves.
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Vinny Gazzara 11 months ago
Corey Webster is entering his 3rd year, and they also have established veterans in Sam Madison and R.W. McQuarters. The secondary will be fine, if not better than last year, with Aaron Ross and Corey Webster having a few starting years under their belts.
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John LoGiudice 11 months ago
EXCELLENT! I made this POTD. Absolutely agree with all of your points.
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John Fennelly 11 months ago
Thank you, sir!
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Osi Umenyiora 11 months ago
I've been following the G-men for over 30 years and I haven't felt this confident about management since George Young and Bill Parcells -- in the pre-free agent days. I'm not worried about replacing Wilson but I am concerned about the LB crew. Kiwanuka has potential but hasn't shown anything there yet, if Pierce gets hurt they're toast and who's starting on the other side anyway? And yes Shockey had to go but we haven't seen Boss perform over a whole season, and they lose something in 2 TE packages.
On the other hand, all those rookies from last year a one year better, the whole offense is back, and most importantly I do believe that Eli has turned a corner and will not go back to being the scrub he was for large parts of last year. I don't think he'll sustain the great performance he had in the playoffs but I think he's a top ten QB in this league and there's no going back.
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Osi Umenyiora 11 months ago
I forgot to say about Strahan that he'll be missed in the lockerroom and some packages but I really believe that Tuck can easily be an upgrade at that spot. The guy had ten sacks last year playing part time and out of position so I'm excited to see what he can do full time at end. And it's possible on obvious passing downs to still move him back to DT to make room for Kiwanuka.
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Sean Crowe 11 months ago
Has quarterback play fallen so far that we not consider what Eli did in the playoffs last year "great"?? He had a great fourth quarter against the Patriots...aside from not screwing up, I'm not sure he did anything else truly great in the playoffs last year.
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Sean Crowe 11 months ago
Not sure why the word "not" was randomly inserted into that first sentence, but you get the point....
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John Fennelly 11 months ago
I think you'll see some new faces emerge as stars this year. The 2 LBs they drafted in the middle rounds are solid picks. Also, try these names....Brandon London - a 6'4" receiver in the mold of Plaxico; Robert Henderson - the 7th round pick - a DE that Reese said "was too good to pass up"
I also hear Zak DeOssie is looking good in camp
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Osi Umenyiora 11 months ago
Eli was great against Tampa (the best pass D in the league last year), going 20 for 27 with two TDs and no INTs. Against Dallass he was 12 of 18 with two TDs and no INTs. He did pretty well against GB in sub-zero weather (he drove them down for what should have been the game-winning FG in the 4th quarter TWICE before Tynes missed both kicks). And through the playoffs he only had one turnover, an INT in the Superbowl that really wasn't his fault. And of course he got the ring. Is that great on it's own or just in light of other QB play? I think it's at least very good on its own.
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Jersey 11 months ago
I agree with your analysis for the most part. I think people made too big a deal out of the losses of Mitchell and Torbor, but I do think Wilson will be missed. Knight is aging and slow, and I don't know that he's going to be able to step in and replace Wilson. It feels almost like another Sam Madison signing.
Strahan will obviously be missed as well, although Justin Tuck is heavily underrated, and it'll be great to see him get his chance to shine.
As for Shockey, I think the trade was great for both teams. Shockey can be excellent when he plays, but he does get hurt a lot, and he is a distraction. He significantly improves the Saints' offense, and the Giants proved last year that he isn't as integral to their offense as previously thought. To get two picks for him is great. He's a loss for sure, but not a huge loss, and the draft picks will likely more than compensate for his departure. Kevin Boss is nothing special, but he's a serviceable tight end, and I don't mind giving him the starting job.
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Ben Blake 11 months ago
As a big giants fan I am shocked at the national media's focus on torbor, mitchell and wilson. As any giants fan will tell you - wilson was great on the safety blitzes but in coverage was average at best. Mitchell and Torbor? Please - they will not be missed at all.
Of course losing strahan stinks - but the giants have been prepping for this moment for at least 2 years. The personnel is there to cover. Tuck was the best defensive linemen we had last year.
And the shockey of it all? In the current offensive better for us to have a slot receiver and fourth wideout with a tight end that can block then one that can catch. Shockey was more important to this offense in his ability to block not in his ability to catch - partly his problem with the team.
Look - the real question above all else is has Eli turned a corner. I believe he has. If thats true - then the giants win the NFC east and make a serious run for superbowl. If he hasnt then they are average at best.
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Patrick SJ Read 11 months ago
nice write up John Me Boy.
I can not believe they got rid of Shockey despite his antics, you have to admitt, he was the best we've seen at tight end. Better than Rambo dude, who is probably my favorite giant of all time-he or LT anyhow (and Simms). But Shockey carried whole lines into the end zone, so did mark but shockey had much better numbers and opened up the offense with "reliable glue hands"- boss is an unknown quantity. I hate it. But the rest is manageable -
The defense will still be a "nasty blue bee-hiv"e despite strayhan. still have toomer and burress plus "the killer bees" - ahmad bradshaw and brandon jacobs. I hope Eli has a stand out yr with less interceptions - he should have the confidence now ;o)
Great read my friend
PR
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John Fennelly 11 months ago
Thanks
Its good to be back
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gnatfan 4evah 11 months ago
shockey never had a 1000 yard season, due to injuries, drops, or whatever else. bavaro had two, in the same amount of time with the giants. not to mention bavaros quiet leadership and shockeys juvenile tantrums. bavaro was clearly the better TE.
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Vinny Gazzara 11 months ago
Good points but Shockey was a better all-around player, blocking, stuff like that. They were both great, it's tough to call.
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Osi Umenyiora 11 months ago
Bavaro only had one 1000 yard season in 1986 but his hands were much better than Shockey's, who had a deserved reputation for dropping balls (usually the easy ones). Bavaro was at least as good a blocker as well. Shockey was drafted with the "next Bavaro" label on him and never lived up to it.
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Tyler Jones 11 months ago
As a Cowboys fan, I fully expect the Giants to compete just as much as we should. The NFC East will host some great games this year. Wouldn't be suprised if NY made it deep in the playoffs again, but Im puttin my $ on Big D!
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russ autin 11 months ago
not so , gnatfan ,patrick is right.plus your front office really screwed up yall could have gotten a first round if the deal was done be fore the draft yall had 7 picks, plus the saints 2 and 5 pics yall could have packaged the 2 and 5 with 1 or 2 of your lower picks ,back to the mid 20's in the first round.when your upstairs guys screw up you gotta call em on it,boss well be very good ,plenty of up side,i don't know why they didn't pull the triger.it was a mistake.
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gregory caldarella 11 months ago
thank you for saying what I always believed about this team. I am sick and tired of all the analysts claiming how they got worse but they don't know what they are talking about...just like when me kiper said the Giants had the worst draft in their division last year and yet again this year...the Giants are the underdog again this year for a different reason this time...let's prove them all wrong again!
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Dan Boone 11 months ago
In the salary cap era of free agent flux eating up championship teams cores the Giants moves will serve them well.
Strahan, though a leader, was near the end of the line and costly to the cap.
Shockey, though talented, had become a giant pain in the ass, a major often injured big mouthed simple minded distraction, who needs it?
No team in its right fiscal mind matches Wilson's mad Raider offer.....
The Gints have shed Barber, Shockey, and Strahan in two years and are perhaps stronger overall for it.... who would have thought? Though Tiki was at the top of his game...
The Gints strength is their D line. So their best shot in the division is handling the Boys oline, like they did in the playoffs, attacking the aging Philly tackles, and rattling the Redskins young qb. The Gmans strong points matches up well their division rivals weaknesses....
The Gmans d man handled the Pats o line in the Bowl.....exploiting a key crack in the Pats armor with a variant of the Bears old pressure 46 defense.
.
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cylton collymore 11 months ago
Sean -
U write like someone who doesnt like the Giants - seriously.
"Has quarterback play fallen so far that we not consider what Eli did in the playoffs last year "great"?? He had a great fourth quarter against the Patriots...aside from not screwing up, I'm not sure he did anything else truly great in the playoffs last year."
I think Eli outperformed every Qb he faced in the playoffs except for Farve... his QB rating was higher than everyone he faced... 118.6 in the wk 17 game, 117.1 against TB, 132.4 against Dallas, 77 against GB and 87.3 against the pats so that generally goes againts your theory... and he threw more TDs than everyone else...
How does that translate into not screwing up and not doing anything truly great... what else is he suppsed to do? Drive 81 yards in 47 seconds...? oh yeah he did that... throw two TDs in the fourth quarter if the superbowl like Montana? oh yeah? He did that.. pick apart probowl DBs? oh yeah he did that AL Harris... not turnover the ball he didnt... (the one INT wasnt his fault.. smith handed that ball off...) Play in -30 weather in Lambeau and throw for over 200 yards? I mean... give me a break!
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Osi Umenyiora 11 months ago
Sean's a Pats fan. He's still recovering.
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reed o 11 months ago
First off....Bavaro Vs. Shockey? Not even a question...Bavaro is a Giant All-Time Great
I think Aaron Ross isa solid playmaker (something the Giants were without in the secondary) & Corey Webster made big strides last season, which should help ease the loss of Wilson's departure.
As for Mitchell, Strahan and Torbor....Too many strong players on the Giants D for them to be real weak. Kiwanuka is a force (just needs to focus his strengths which I think the coaching staff will do). Justin Tuck should come on real strong this season as well. I like Osi REALLY breaking out this season.
To me, as long as the Giants Running Game equation works out (Jacobs up the gut...Ward & Bradshaw on the corners), this team should be real strong. Seriously though, the running game (and more specifically a VERY professional O-Line) will open things up for Manning and the WR (Plax & watch out for Steve Smith this year) crew.
Can't wait to head to Giants Camp!
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reed o 11 months ago
Seriously...Sean, I think you need to read this, cause it's obvious you are a Pats fan...
http://www.maxim.com/WhytheSportsWorldHatesBoston/articles/19555.aspx
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marvin 11 months ago
As far as I am concerned Eli is still our week link, until he plays several regular season games the way he played the last 5 to 6 last year.
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reed o 11 months ago
Indeed...That is why it's SO important for the Offensive Line to get it movin right from the get-go. From there, the RBs will have holes to bust open --> More time and guessing on the opposing D for Eli to do his thing.
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Stove Pipe 11 months ago
John, great job as usual. Dead on with all your points, especially on Jerry Reese who may be the best talent evaluator in the league.
Wilson, Torbor and Mitchell were nice players, but no where near the level that matches the attention and money thrown at them as free agents. Classic case of mid-level guys cashing in on a super bowl victory, more power to them.
The only thing that worries me about this year is the tendency to not play up to the talent level and expectations that the Giants exhibit, usually following years in which they overachieve. I think this team might be different though. It's just a gut feeling, but these guys seem more grounded and focused than previous NYG teams, no prima donnas or self-promoters now that Barber and Shockey are gone.
Anyhow, keep up the great work.
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John Fennelly 11 months ago
Thanks, Stove
The Giants have a kind schedule - remember they finished 2nd, not 1st in the division so they draw a 2nd place sked. I don't think people are factoring that in when they are making their predictions, either
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Osi Umenyiora 11 months ago
All that means is that this year they play Minnesota and Carolina instead of GB and Tampa. Not much difference.
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Silver Fox 11 months ago
Excellent article, John. I applaud you reffort to present a persuasive piece by providing facts. /we saw Eli Manning and his teammates mature the latter part of last season as they became determined and won the Super Bowl. It was not a fluke, in my opinion, no matter what happens in the 2008 season. It was better coaching, better preparation, and better X's and O's, especially at the offensive and defensive lines. Eli learned not to force things but let the game and victory come to him.
I agree that Shockley has been on the downhill side of his career and that Boss emerged in the playoffs. The Giants defense will adjust without Strahan. Ironically, I think Tiki Barber's negative comments about his ex-coach and ex-teammates provided a little motivation to prove him wrong.
It's also possible that the G-Men will be a better team than last season, but the record and post season success may not show it. The New York football Giants will be a target as Super Bowl Champions in each game this season and each team will be at their best to knock them off. The NFC East is the toughest, most competitive, and best division of the NFL.
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John Fennelly 11 months ago
Thanks
JF
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Max Iascone 11 months ago
I dunno man, I liked the Giants' moves in the draft and will admit that Wilson and Mitchell were somewhat overrated, but I'm still not sold on Eli (he had a nice playoffs but what will he do now? will he return to his old pick throwing, game losing self or has he arrived?) Strahan's play can be replaced well enoguh along the D-line due to NY's depth that his loss will not be felt to a small extent on the field but he was the face of the franchise and a leader in the locker room. I'm with Sean in that changing the chemistry of a championship team is risky business, even though it wasn't NY's choice with this one.
If Wilkinson, Deossie, Clark, Kehl, or Goff step up, Mitchell's loss won't be felt, and Torbor wasn't an every down starter to my knowledge (If I'm wrong feel free to let me in on it.) Wilson was grossly overpaid by Oakland but Knight is slow and old and Phillips, although he is quite talented, is young and inexperienced, so I think that the Giants will digress somewhat at that position. Toomer and Burress are getting older at wideout and Boss isn't nearly the playmaking threat that Shockey was at the TE position, so the passing game could take a bit of a step back. NY is deep at WR with guys like Steve Smith, Sinorice Moss, Tyree, Manningham et al but none of these guys strike me as a viable #2 option should Toomer lose a step.
Also, Tuck strikes me more as a situational interior rusher/ Jarvis Green esque passing down defensive end, Strahan's versatility will be sorely missed, and while the Giants do have a couple of veterans able to take Strahan's leadership role, the transition could still be difficult (Strahan was a once in a lifetime player and clubhouse leader, and replacing him will be very difficult.)
One last issue I have is this: The Giants last year were a team that got hot at the right time and rode it to an impressive SB win, but I'm not sure if they can do it for a full season. After all, the Giants have had a maddening propensity to have those "tale of two halves" type seasons, and I don't know if they'll relapse into those kinds of struggles. All in all, provided everyone stays healthy and Eli performs, and the team remains consistent, I think that they could win 10-11 games, 12 if they're lucky. But whether or not they can continue to thrive in the toughest division in football remains to be seen. Good article.
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John Fennelly 11 months ago
Thx for reading Max
Rgds
JF
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