While I am not a proponent of fan bashing by any team's fans, I still have a dark spot in my Raider heart for the events that occurred in New England on Jan. 19, 2002.
To most of the football-eating world, the ruling by Walt Coleman and the NFL was a travesty that enabled the New England Patriots to win the first, of what many consider, three tainted Super Bowls.
Cheating allegations aside, I have the utmost respect for the abilities of Tom Brady and the organization that Bill Belichick has built in NE. I just wish he hadn't tarnished his achievements with his win-at-all-costs mentality.
In the six years since the "Snow Job" game, I have had many a conversations with NE fans. For the most part, they have been obnoxious and arrogant about their team's achievements, which has given me quite a bias against them.
I have run into a few articulate and genuine individuals with whom I've had great football discussions, and I choose to believe that they are the majority in NE, not the very vocal minority.
That said, I would like to relate an experience from a good friend at last year's Giants-Patriots Super Bowl. It was his own little revenge party, which he pulled off with an audience, and quite frankly, one of the funniest stories I've heard in years.
My buddy, who I'll call "Pancho", to protect his identity, is well connected in the NFL party circles, and had been in Phoenix attending many of the Super Bowl extravaganzas.
Let's face it, Pancho goes where the women are, and has had the success in life to pursue hottest of the hot. Where you and I might be just a bit overwhelmed by the Playboy girls, Pancho is in his element.
One of his acquaintances has been kind enough to see to it that he had a very good single seat to the big game. Having been tainted by the very same bias against the Patriots and their fans, he didn't have any desire to watch what we all felt would be another New England victory, so he decided to sell the ticket the morning of the game.
No doubt that decision was also fueled by having an outrageous hangover from several days of partying, and a fine, shall we say, accoutrement taking up residence in his hotel suite.
Being the businessman that he is, he'd heard that the going price for his ticket was fairly substantial and decided, on a whim, to post a local ad on Craigslist. It wasn't the smartest move. He'd posted his cell number and received 50 calls in an hour.
Pancho, always one to make the best of a bad situation, decided to have a little fun wheeling and dealing. He quickly figured out, by the area code of the callers, who was calling from a New England number vs. a New York/Jersey digit.
He developed a script and returned the first call from a Pats fan.
"Pancho here, returning your call regarding the Super Bowl ticket."
"Yo...You still got that ticket? How much?"
"Yes sir, and thanks for calling. Allow me to put something out front before we talk about you buying my ticket. There are special requirements for purchase. I am a Raider fan and I'm going to need you to admit that we got f***ed in the Tuck Rule incident."
"You serious?"
88 comments Last one added 10 months ago — Leave a Comment
Aaron Dodge 11 months ago
I'm very pleased to read that you seem to understand not every fan you have communication with reprents the entirety. I wish it wasn't true, but I myself (a Patriots fanatic) have had terrible experiences dealing with other Patriot fans. It amazed me that some of the people that I ran into could express that much arrogance and ingnorance and keep a straight face. But just as it's true that those types of people are out there and are fans for every single team, there are the good ones too and hopefully they can get to be more vocal.
Great job writing the article, I was entertained throughout.
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Jeff McMaster 11 months ago
Hey Aaron, I do get it. I occasionally see a Raiders fan do something that makes me think, "Oh no, he just perpetuated the unwanted stigma of being a Raiders fan right here in front of God and everybody." And It never fails that I run across a COPS episode where some toothless meth addict in Hicksville, Tennessee is getting busted wearing a Raiders t-shirt. Those are the groaner moments.
You folks up in NE got a lot to be thankful for of late. Two Sox championships, the resurrection of the Celtics as World Champs, the Pats.... I almost feel bad for the folks who take it for granted rather than reveling in it...note I said almost. :)
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midwesterngrad 11 months ago
The Patriots can boast when they have 5 rings like my Dallas Cowboys. They should not be showing arrogance because there were many years when they sucked. They should things Parcells for getting this team on the right track. Cowboys all the way this year!
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eric brooks 11 months ago
Jeff and all fans of the east coast teams, when referring the Boston's baseball team they are the Red Sox, Chicago's team has long been known as the SOX this goes back to the early part of the century like during the Black Sox scandal and following years.
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Tyler Jones 11 months ago
Great article. That story is pretty cool and you used it to make a great point. This is one of the best articles I've read here since becoming a regular on the site a couple months ago. Keep it up.
And yes, i think everyone is tired of the patriots and their fans, although i still couldn't cheer for the G-Men being a Cowboys fan. As much as I didn't want to watch the Super Bowl because of my hate for both teams, I stomached it and even swallowed my pride calling to congratulate my longtime-Giants fan friend. Hopefully, he will be calling me this year.
Also, I'm glad you realize that the loud obnoxious fans are probably not the majority, they just seem that way because they make the most noise. That's something I see ever year here in Arkansas with the Razorbacks (a few loud-mouth idiotic fans that make the rest of the fan base look bad). I'm sure most Pats fans are fairly humble.
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Greg Peterson 11 months ago
Great article. They don't call them Massholes for nothing!
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D Stevens 11 months ago
That is so cruel, yet sooo cooool!
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William Berry 11 months ago
"While I am not a proponent of fan bashing by any team's fans, I still have a dark spot in my Raider heart for the events that occurred in New England on Jan. 19, 2002."
1976 *******, the only time refs threw a game in NFL history.
Now read the rules on hits to the head. Oh, I forgot, Raider fans can't read.
The Raiders got away with one.
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Jeff McMaster 11 months ago
God bless you for making my point.
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steve johnson 11 months ago
I think the Patriots were paid back in the 1985 playoff game against the Raiders when they recieved a very generous pass interference call late in the game that propelled them to the Superbowl against the Bears. Oh I guess we forgot about that one.
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steve johnson 11 months ago
I guess we forgot about the 1985 playoff game when the Patriots recieved the benefit of a very questionable pass interference call late in the game. This call propelled the Patrios over the Raiders and into the Superbowl. Thankfully, the Bears took care of business that year. Most Patriots fans have forgotten about this call.
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eric brooks 11 months ago
'76?? It takes 2, so for your referencing this event Stingley would have to have lowered his head. He was such freaking a martyr, that he was not man enough to acknowledge any of Tatums attempts at asking for forgiveness!! It was the state of his heart that took Stingley's life!! Unforgiveness leads to more than we know, not only mentally but physically. Tatum went to visit Stingley in the hospital to apologize and Stingley could not say I forgive you, but held on to this feeling for several decades till he passed away. So dont come here with that crap. The players who get injured would not have been injured if they would have just kept their heads up. Poor Daryl Stingley, Jack Tatum equals the criminal element in the NFL. Funny if Tatum was so bad how come he was never suspended for his play? Because if he would have been suspended, when the RAIDERS were the visiting team fan attendance would not have been that good, who would they had to boo during this time? I dont care what team you root for THE NFL NEEDS THE RAIDERS!!! Yes we live in the past more than we should, but the team has a very bright future.
Steve- the current fans of the patriots were either not born yet or if they were alive in '85 they were fans of another team, can we say bandwagon. The cowgirls are America's team-the Patriots are the NFLs team.
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Natalie Svider 11 months ago
I wish I could say I have come across at least one of the civil and behaved Pats fan. I have not been so fortunate.
BTW, fantastic story.
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Aaron Dodge 11 months ago
That's disappointing, looks like I and others will have quite the job to do in turning around the perception of our fans. I certainly never wish to attain the same ranks of Yankees fans.
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
Natalie..
My Fiance is a Pats fan, has been her whole life, same with her family, she is obsessed with her Patriots as i am about my Raiders. i have met some very nice Pats fans. some will be friends for life. Those do admit that was a fumble. My Fiance says. " We got a gift that day, it helped us beat a very tough Raiders team. but what people still have to understand is. The Pats still had to go into Pittsburg and win.. and still had to beat the Rams, the Greatest Show on Turf"
She isnt being mean or Cocky or Arrogent, she is just simply telling the truth. Although that Tuck call was completely bogus.. most bandwagon fans and Raider Haters dont want to admit it but the true die hard fans who also love the game of football.. cheered for their team threw good times and bad.. have no problem with being honest about it
and Jeff is right.. they are the majority, not the Minority, just like our Raider fan base.. the Majority is hardworking law abiding citizens.. the minority is the thug or "tootless" fans that give us all a bad name. all teams have them..
Tomy
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Natalie Svider 11 months ago
Yeah, I do get that, I really do. Trust me as a life-loyal Raiders fan we always get the "you're a bunch of thugs and gang-bangers". So I understand there are good fans out there. I have just yet to meet one. And I usually don't take the bait, it's not worth my time. My thing is that I do know a few Pats fans personally, and I have to say from those experiences alone, I dislike that team a whole lot more than I normally would.
My experience with most Pats fans (generally speaking, hitting up sports bars and what not) is that once they find out I am a Raiders fan, they first off laugh, then they say in their typical fashion, the Raiders Suck or something quite similar (partially to their credit though, they are not the only fans that do this, they are just the ones that are more vocal about their arrogance and sense of entitlement). Quite honestly, I choose not to take their bait because choose to be a better fan than that. But that usually upsets them even more and the taunting gets worse.
I am sure you guys are fine decent fellows, maybe one day we'll meet.
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
Natalie
yep.. i run into those all the time when im back east visiting my family. everywhere i go i wear my raiders gear.. no one really said anything. just looked at me funny.. as in.. WHAT your not a Patriots fan? what the hell is wrong with you?.. LOL. nothing., im a Raiders fan and always will be.. when people say.. hahaha the Raiders SUCK!!!.. i just say yea? so its only ok to love a team when they win? i show them my Raiders tat and say.. only a true fan sticks with their team win or lose.. that generally shuts em up right there..
I try to think of these idiots of all teams who trash talk. are bandwagon fans.. because true fans of football respect other teams and their fans and realize no team stays on top forever. ( there is nothing wrong with a retaliation to insults)..
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D Orrell 11 months ago
Come on now. Patriots fans have much more reason to hold a grudge against the raiders. The tuck rule was correctly applied and it was sweet revenge for the playoff game in 1976 the raiders never should have won over new england. new england should have gone to the superbowl that year if not for the officials.
o and jake tatum paralized darrell stingley. so quit crying!
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
You need to do your research there on Tatum and Darryl Stingly.. Tatun played within the rules of the game.. he played the game the way the game was meant to be played.. todays NFL you might as well put a dress on some of these players. People want to portray Tatum as a dirty player.. but if you stop your mongering and look at the facts.. the play was legal. the hit was legal. and Stingly becoming paralized was a unfortunate accident. this is a rough sport.. players get hurt, even killed on the field.. how many football players have been paralyzed over the years? did Tatum hit all them too? Tatum played for 10 years.. laid out thousands of hits over his career.. and 1 unfortuante incident labels him dirty? sorry sounds like sour grapes to me..
Another fact.. Madden AND Tatum went to the hospital after the game to see Stingly and were turned away.. A few weeks later Tatum again attempted to go see Stingly and was again turned away and was told.. its part of the game, no need for an apology.. if you want to hang someone for Stingly's unfortunate accident.. why not blame Grogan for the high pass that got his reciever hurt?
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Kevin Tarabini 11 months ago
After the Kevin Everett(?) story last season where he miraculously did not become a paraplegic, go take a look at the Tatum play, he didn't apologize for the legal hit. Its the non-apology that hurt him, yhe hit was legal.
I don't blame Tatum for playing within the rules.
BTW, my Brother-in-law is a paraplegic after a boating accident, life is hell but he has still found a silver cloud to grab old of and carry him through life.
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
Kevin
Maybe you missed the part where i said that twice Tatum went to appologize and was turned away and was told an appology wasnt necassery.. i think alot of people forget that.. how is it Tatums fault that he was turned away twice?
he made the effort..
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D Orrell 11 months ago
What research? I don't need research to know that he paralized stingley. When you add that incident to the 1976 game and the general dislikable swagger about the raiders of the day, well, that makes the tuck rule game pretty sweet. Not only does NE win, but now the raider fans will be compaining about the patriots for the next 25 years about a correctly applied rule.
If that exact play happens next year, then the rule will be called that same way. If the rule is so bad why hasen't it been changed?
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frank sands 11 months ago
Oakland - now there's a city....LOL.
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Chris X 11 months ago
I live in San Francisco but I will tell you that I have been to Boston numerous times to party and play basketball...think what you want about Oakland your life sucks compared to anyone who lives in Oakland.
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Raider Revenge Payback 11 months ago
Frank - now there's a name ...LOLouder
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frank sands 11 months ago
What kind of revenge is your sorry ass team been bringing lately?? Your city and team are a joke. And hey, I like my name.
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Raider Revenge Payback 11 months ago
Jeff I'm with you. I can't move on either. That call came from the booth up stairs, from someone how had a replay slow motion button. What is his name? Never the less it’s was a call that Walt Coleman should of simply let the play stand. If he truly feels that he saw un inclusive evidence that was a forward pass than he should be evaluated or investigated for game infringements because everyone know that in the HISTORY of fumbles in our beloved NFL that was a fumble. Does anyone know how that person is selected to run the reply process for home game? How’s to say if that person is not a NE fan or taking bets.
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eric brooks 11 months ago
Tim Donaghy was the replay person that day and had money on the patriots, he called in sick to the basketball game that he was going to ref at. hahahaha.
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John Hefter 11 months ago
As a life long Raider fan who has lived in the shadow of Foxboro for years, it is safe to say that I have run across many a Pats fan in my day. The "tuck game" ate at me for years, as it must be now because I am taking the time to write this post.
For the most part I have been met with shameful behavior by Pats fans regarding this game. They say absurd things like "the Raiders got what they deserved" or "you can't handle the snow". that was often followed by some reference to how great the Pats are and how this team will go down as the best ever. Basically, your typical arrogant, dare I say Yankee like behavior.
But there is another side. Many of my friends, most Pat's season ticket holders have admitted to me that the Raiders were jobbed. It took some time to get it out of them, but most do admit on some level that Oakland was robbed. But I guess that's just sports.
But I got a little revenge this last year. Last year, Pats fans weren't enjoying wins, they were expecting them. Away from Boston on business the week of the Super Bowl I sent all of my Pats friend these three text messages after the game; "Great game, I am just going to 'tuck' myself into bed now" and "17 wins and 1 Giant loss" and Cheater never...aggh, I guess you know the rest by now"
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John Hefter 11 months ago
As a life long Raider fan who has lived in the shadow of Foxboro for years, it is safe to say that I have run across many a Pats fan in my day. The "tuck game" ate at me for years, as it must be now because I am taking the time to write this post.
For the most part I have been met with shameful behavior by Pats fans regarding this game. They say absurd things like "the Raiders got what they deserved" or "you can't handle the snow". that was often followed by some reference to how great the Pats are and how this team will go down as the best ever. Basically, your typical arrogant, dare I say Yankee like behavior.
But there is another side. Many of my friends, most Pat's season ticket holders have admitted to me that the Raiders were jobbed. It took some time to get it out of them, but most do admit on some level that Oakland was robbed. But I guess that's just sports.
But I got a little revenge this last year. Last year, Pats fans weren't enjoying wins, they were expecting them. Away from Boston on business the week of the Super Bowl I sent all of my Pats friend these three text messages after the game; "Great game, I am just going to 'tuck' myself into bed now" and "17 wins and 1 Giant loss" and Cheater never...aggh, I guess you know the rest by now"
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adam folarin 11 months ago
we are not obnoxious and arrogant about our teams achievements we are just a thousand times better than any other team in the nfl.
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Natalie Svider 11 months ago
They weren't 1,000 times better than the NY Giants, so there goes your arrogant theory.
Thank you again for further proving Jeff's point.
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
Natalie,
Not to mention its easy to be the best when you cheat for 8 years..
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Natalie Svider 11 months ago
Yeah there's that too. :)
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Tim MacGregor 11 months ago
As a fan since 1963, I have seen A LOT of games. But! It is what it is. Ya can't live your life around sad times. If the Raiders had scored more points or the "D" had blocked the kick we wouldn't be posting about this. Want something to be sad about. Tampa Bay vs Oakland in the SB. All the Raider haters loved that game.
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Patrick Brizuela 11 months ago
I'll agree with you Tim, that SB was definitely another sad time in Raider Nation. Gruden knew exactly where to shift his defense once the offense put their receiver in motion. I'll admit that we got owned that night. But the next day, I gave Tampa the credit they deserved for preparing for that game. I'm a die-hard Raider fan, but I'm not afraid to give credit where credit is due.
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
Again.. pretty simple.. had the refs called the play right.. we wouldnt have had to worry about blocking a field goal.. they had already won.. game over.. everything after that is a moot point.. but hey.. if thats how you have to rationalize the win.. then fine.. thats your deal.. but the truth is still the truth no matter how much you twist it
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Tim MacGregor 11 months ago
Tommy, you can't blame the refs every time a team suffers a loss. I have been to games and seen them on TV where calls were phantom and they go both ways. It is what it is. Because of Al Davis and him fighting with the NFL "all" the time, everyone things they make bad call all the time against the Silver and Black.
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
Tim
1 i never said i blamed refs for every game the Raiders lost.. i said i blamed the refs for this one particular loss..
as i posted earlier.. some teams get the benefit of the doubt more then other teams.. and second.. the Raiders do get more questionable calls that other teams would likely get away with.. for example.. last year against the CHargers.. a reciever catches the ball.. falls down completely untouched.. spikes the ball.. raiders recover right? ummm nope.. Refs rule it a illegal fwd pass there for they get a penalty and the ball back.. BUT heres the rub a week earlier.. during a Packers game. a GB Packer does the same exact thing and it was ruled a fumble.. another example.. Robert Gallery. called for an illegal block away from the play that nullified a TD.. which i always thought that rule was implemented during a INT return.. Randy Moss makes a career out of pushing off in the end zone.. got away with it every year in the league but 2.. the years he was a Raiders..
yes. the refs can have a direct outcome of every game.. change a first down to 3rd and 20.. what do you think that teams chances are of converting that? so you get my point...
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Patrick Brizuela 11 months ago
Great article John!! I found it to be very entertaining. I feel for Aaron for being one of the few NE fans that have to deal with the stigma of the majority of NE fans. It is slowly rising to the ranks of the Yankee fans. It has jumped ten fold with the rest of the accomplishments of the likes of the Red Sox and Celtics.
But here is a thought to the vocal majority of the Patriots fans... Oh, what would you have been doing if Walt Coleman had ruled it a fumble? They wouldn't have won the Super Bowl that year or the following years because Randy Moss would have never signed with you, and the key players on the D would have not come back that following year.
Before I go... Last year's Super Bowl was one I will remember for the rest of my life. The collapse of the almost perfect season. I loved to see how the obnoxious and arrogant fans had gone from non-stop bragging in the first half to utter shock when Eli Manning hoisted the Lombardi Trophy. The vocal minority were glad to say that the better team won that night, while the brash majority were quick to claim that the Giants got lucky. I like to call the Patriots season last year was 18-d'oh.
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The_KRAKEN 11 months ago
Tim
While the Snow Job is another like the Lytle fumble for me, the loss in the SB to Tampa was even more devasting, I don't blame the players that day except for maybe B. Robbins who did not take his Meds, I put the whole BLAME on the Dumb Ass Coach "Callahan" who for the life of me did not change the game plan enough. He was just riding on Grudens coat tails and did not have the since to change it up !! Pisserrrrrrrrrrrrrr.................
In anycase I still to this day cannot bring myself to watch the SNOW JOB !! or that SB !!
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The_KRAKEN 11 months ago
By the way !! I Love Your Story !!! LOL
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JollyRoger 11 months ago
Great! But, as a lifelong Raiders fan, I have to admit that the obnoxious William, above, has a legitimate point. The Raiders DID get away with one, back in 76 (against the Pats, no less), when an extremely questionable roughing the passer penalty kept alive their final drive. So you could argue that the Snow Job itself was the true karma. Not that I have any problem whatsoever with Pancho's antics, mind you.
One quibble: how could a Giants fan of thirty years be 'elderly'? Did he start following them in his forties, or something? I 've been a Raider fan for forty years and am only 47. Something doesn't add up.
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Jeff McMaster 11 months ago
Jolly, I wasn't there, I just wrote the story based on it's telling. I know that at 46 I've only been a hard core Raider fan for about 12 years, before that I was a baseball junkie. Some of us don't see the light til later in life. For me, I was a fan, not fanatic, until I attended my first game in Oaktown. Then it was on...
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
you could go threw the old games and there will always be questionable roughing the passer calls.. every sunday and in just about every game you can see a questionable call.. some teams get the benefit of the doubt more then others,,,
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JollyRoger 11 months ago
No doubt, Tomycar. Sometimes you get the calls, sometimes you don't. I was just making the point that long time Patriots fans had a right to feel like the Snow Job was just a cosmic evening of the score. And I don't know if you ever saw the play in question, but it WAS pretty ticky-tack. Not that I'm complaining, mind you. Just being objective.
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
Jolly
Of course i saw the play.. and it was pretty ticky tack.. but like i said.. you see that all the time every sunday.. for a most recent example.. Ravens against Pats on the final drive when the Pats had 12 shots to score a TD to win the game... now there is a perfect example of ticky tack
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JollyRoger 11 months ago
Funny you should mention the Ravens in the context of ticky-tack, roughing the passer calls. Because, on the other end of the spectrum -- blatant roughing calls that DON'T get called -- was there ever a more egregious example than the lard ass Siragusa flopping on Gannon in the 2000 AFC championship game?
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
Jolly,
Thanks alot.. i was trying to forget about that.. but hey.. Gannon came back better and meaner then ever LOL..
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trevor jones 11 months ago
Look as you will in rule books you will find no "tuck rule". The rule quoted is if the arm is moving forward. An eight year old, not being paid off can fugure out that this is in the context of the arm moving forward to pass, as opposed to when it is coming back to prepare to pass. We all know (the one person you should never try to fool is you) that the arogant one's arm was not moving forward to pass, but to hold, somthing a hard hit prevented the arogant one from doing... I was recently watching afl, arena fl. the same thing happened, the reff reviewed the play and made the upright decision.... Please don't lie to yourselves patties,,, it only hurts you.
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
Trevor... give me your email address ill send you a pick of Brady with both hands on the ball.. dunno how you can be throwing a fwd pass with both hands on the ball..
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SuperDave Ellsworth 11 months ago
Amen Tomycar. But also, doesnt the replay rules states conclusive evidence to overturn the call on the field? Another reason why this was the worse call in the history of sports
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Joseph Cervantes 11 months ago
Frank,
I once knew a guy with no arms and no legs.....
We used to put him on the grill and call him Frank......
Good Story. You freaks in New England have it coming this year. You had better hope Moss doesn't get his head taken off. By the way my bretheren, I will be having a fire pit lit up to burn the Moss Jersey that I have. It will make good fuel for my "Franks"
Win, Lose or Tie, Raiders till I die!
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raider mike 11 months ago
bottom line that was 2001 when 9/11 happened do you think the N.F.L. Wanted the Raiders in the SB no they wanted the Patriots of America in there. I never saw a pass in the N.F.L. Were the QB pulls the ball to his body and get it punched out by a DB and it be called a incomplete pass.
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Steven Perry 11 months ago
As a life long Raider fan I have to blame the Raiders for the loss to NE. We didn't loose because of the tuck rule. We lost because we didn't convert on 3rd down and gave the ball back. If we make that first down NE don't get the ball back and we win
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Michael Brown 11 months ago
Bad rule? Absolutely. Correct call? Yes. While it is a bullshit rule, the rule is the rule. His arm was in a pump fake motion when the ball was knocked loose, and the technical rule states that this is an incomplete pass. The "tuck rule" has been in existence for a while, and it was not created to help New England or fuck over Oakland. The ref made the correct call.
That being said, as a Pats fan, it was a fumble. I'll admit it. But the correct call, based on the rules, was made.
The arrogant ones you encounter are usually the ones who can't tell you who Steve Grogan or Irving Fryar is, hell, most of them probably don't even know that Curtis Martin started off in New England. These people are assholes who decided to become Pats fans after they won 3 out of 4 Super Bowls, and I resent every last one of them.
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JollyRoger 11 months ago
That's a valid point, Michael. However, the ref, Walt Coleman, made no mention of the Tuck Rule when he overturned the call instead saying, "After further review, the quarterback's arm was going forward, incomplete pass," which even Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder recognized as total BS. It wasn't until the next morning that Mike Pereira and his merry band of spinmeisters trotted out the tuck rule.
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JollyRoger 11 months ago
After some 'further review' of my own (good old Google), I see that, while Coleman made no mention of the tuck rule on the field, he DID, in fact, mention it later, after the game. So I was wrong when I said that nobody mentioned until the next day. So, never mind, I guess.
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Jeff McMaster 11 months ago
Michael,
Heck, I'm a Raiders fan and I remember Plunkett and Randy Vataha in Pats gear. The old Stanford Indian's one-two combo.
The bandwagon gets awfully full when a team is successful. I remember last season I was in a grocery store in Northern Calif and I saw a guy, from behind, wearing a Niners jacket. It was nothing out of the ordinary until he turned around and I saw the Pats hat on his head. When I walked past him I said, "Dude, I hope your a Raiders fan who lost a really bad bet."
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Ryan 11 months ago
Very well said Michael, I'm a Pats fan too and it's getting to the point that I absolutely can't stand most them anymore... I'm actually kind of glad that there are getting to be more and more Patriot haters out there... i'd rather have to deal with them then the bandwagoners
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Michael Brown 11 months ago
And isn't that sad that the haters are easier to talk to then your fellow "fans"?
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Sean Crowe 11 months ago
It continues to amaze me that Raider fans ignore the hit to Brady's helmet that caused the fumble in the first place...
It also amazes me that they refuse to acknowledge that the whole thing was just the football karma Gods paying back the New England fans for the phantom roughing the passer game.
Good call, bad call...you still had multiple chances to stop the Patriots. The game was lost when you couldn't get a first down after having a second and two late in the fourth quarter....or when your defense allowed a rookie QB to complete something like 21 out of his last 22 passes....it wasn't lost when the tuck call went against you....
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Jeff McMaster 11 months ago
I figured at some point this would turn into the same old 1976 karma, hit to the helmet, yadda yadda yadda argument that Raiders and Pats fans have been having for 6 years. We generally end up agreeing to disagree. We might as well just have Keith Olbermann and Ann Coulter have the debate for us while we all sit back sharing a couple of beers together, it would certainly be more interesting. :)
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
Sean. it was a hit to the head that caused the fumble? wow i better get my eyes checked.. cause it sure looked like the ball didnt come loose until Woodson sacked Brady in which knocked the ball loose.. like i said earlier.. give me an email address and i would be more then happy to send you a nice picture.. AND a video clip of the play..
Second.. i know for a fact that the entire world watching that play said.. GAME OVER RAIDERS WIN.. ESPECIALLY Pats fans.. you want to know why i know this? i was in Warwick RI at a sports bar on Airport RD right behind TF Green airport watching it..
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Ryan 11 months ago
We are never gonna agree about this so it's probably best if everyone just drops it... i argue that games are won on the field (which they are) and that the Raiders had their chance but couldn't get it done (which they couldn't) and that they played soft defense (which they did)... Raiders fans will say that they had the game won and the refs took it away (which they did) so there really isn't a point in arguing anymore... every championship team in any sport gets lucky at some point in their season... without it they wouldn't be champions
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Sean Crowe 11 months ago
Tomycar, just look at the picture at the top of this article. His helmet was nearly torn off his head....
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
Sean.. my email is Tomycar@aol.com.. send me an email and ill repy you the video of the play.. and i challenge you to tell me where the hit to Brady;s head caused the fumble and nearly ripped off his helmet.. im telling you.. ive watched this thing 1000 times.. Woodsons arms glanced off the helmet as he was going to swat the ball.. NOT as you say ripping off his helmet..
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Sean Crowe 11 months ago
Tomycar,
I completely agree with you. But the way the rule is called, it was a blow to the head...15 yard penalty, fumble nullified, automatic first down.
I'm not a psycho fan who doesn't realize the Patriots were fortunate. They were definitely fortunate. They had a play earlier that season where David Patten was knocked out cold and his head touched out of bounds while the ball was touching his hand. It nullified what would have been probably the game winning play for the Bills.
But, facts are facts. Any contact to the QB's helmet is a 15 yard penalty. It should have been ruled a fumble, and the fumble should have been overturned by the personal foul. In the end, it worked out basically the way it should have.
-Sean
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Tomycar Car 11 months ago
i disagree... Coleman is quoted the contact was incidental upon Woodson sacking Brady.. the helmet contact wasnt the issue.. it was incedental.. it was part of the sack..
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Sean Crowe 11 months ago
Right, and he's wrong about it not being roughing the passer just like he's wrong about it not being a fumble. The moral of the story is, the refs suck.
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Peter Kima 11 months ago
Guys, 1976 was TWENTY FIVE FRIGGIN YEARS before the Snow Job. TWENTY FIVE YEARS. Put the can Schaeffer down, get off the couch, shake off the potato chip crumbs from your belly. Pull your World Series shirt down so that it covers your damn belly button and get a friggin life.
Karma? You want Karma??? Getting stuck with Randy Moss is Karma! Suckers.
Facts are facts...
Raiders were robbed that day.
Our Raiders have sucked for years now.
YOU CHEAT!
We will be better.
YOU WILL ALWAYS BE CHEATERS.
The Raiders are the only team to appear in a Super Bowl in the 60's, 70's 80's and 2000's. That is consistency.
The Pats have sucked for most of their existence and only exist in their present form because.....
THEY CHEATED!
Bill Belicheat sucks.
GO RAIDAHS!
Signed a former New Englander--Who's father was born and raised in San Leandro, CA and had the smarts to raise his son correctly.
My all time Riader team:
QB STABLER
RB ALLEN
RB VAN EEGAN
WR BELITNEKOFF
WR BROWN / BRANCH
TE CASPER
LT SHELL
LG UPSHAW
C OTTO (OVER DALBY BARELY)
RG MICKEY MARVIN
RT HENRY LAWRENCE
P GUY
K BAHR
DL HOWIE (NEED I SAY MORE?)
DL TOOZ
DL KINLAW
LB STORK
LB MILLEN
LB DAVIDSON
LB VILLAPIANO
DB HAYNES
DB BROWN
DB TATUM (AND I LIKED MCELROY TOO)
DB HAYES
AGAIN, THIS IS JUST SOME OF MY FAVORITES. MANY OF THESE COULD BE ARGUED AND I KNOW THAT. BO JACKSON ANYONE???
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BabyTate 11 months ago
Peter, a brilliant comment. BUT, you must remove the "barely' beside Dalby. 00 is the man and he will always be the man.
You want to make a Linebacker out of Big Ben? Well, that suits me.
Now about this lying going on by the Patriots concerning 1976. Everone knows that was a clean touchdown. Regarding this tuck nonsense that was nothing but an illegal play by an illegal team who won all of their Super Bowls by using illegal films so I don't acknowledge anything they say or care what they do. They will go down in history as the Barry Bonds of the NFL.
And that is all the people need to know.
P.S. Be sure to put Dr. Billy Cannon as a backup tight end, another one of the great Raider Heisman Trophy winners, he had 35 catches in the '67 Super Bowl season and 10 were for touchdowns, that's production, every 3.5 catches is 6 points.
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OakRaidFan OakRaidFan 11 months ago
It's Van Eeghen and Biletnikoff, but, yeah, I agree withmost of your all-time team.
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OakRaidFan OakRaidFan 11 months ago
The NFL has tacitly admitted they were wrong on the "Tuck Rule" call, because they have not allowed Walt Coleman to referee any Raiders games since. Mike Pereira made up that bullshit, make-it-up-as- -you-go-along, so called "Tuck Rule", the next day, to feebly, weakly, and wrongly try to explain it.... Between the cheating, illegally betting NBA refs, the NFL and the cheating Patriots (and the cheating refs), and the steroid taking MLB players, maybe the NHL is the only decent League around. At least they, and tennis, and the NBA (beginning next season) use replay. The replay the NFL uses is bullshit.
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BabyTate 11 months ago
The 49ers are the worst organization in the NFL so no one cares what you think.
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frank sands 11 months ago
NO they haven't ever said what you say - the correct call was made - don't blame the call, blame the rule.
All of this crap about the Patriots from Raiders fans - the team that coined the phrase "Just WIn Baby"??
Man oh man - I guess a whole bunch of losing seasons makes you lose your own perspective you jealous losers.
Y'all better watch out - what will you ever say when we win 2 more rings and become the Greatest Dynasty of ALL Time.
You will need to find another sport, because it is happeneing.
Two words for you -- Tom Brady
Goodbye my Raider doormats.
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Jeff McMaster 11 months ago
In fairness to this situation, the NFL also didn't have Mike Carey, regarded as one of the best NFL Referees, work a Jaguars game for 4 years. Tom Coughlin, then Jags coach, wrote a detailed letter to the league office citing 14 plays that Carey and his crew blew in a game with playoff considerations.
As for the tuck call, all I can say is if it was the right call, it was a bad rule. Using the Brady rule as a guideline, it meant that a QB could pump fake and then if he didn't bring the ball back against his body he could run all over the field and still be considered to be in a passing motion.
Pereira has proven that he has no love for the Raiders with his quotes over the years, including a snide public remark he made to Amy trask the CEO of the Raiders at a charity event last year. It's interesting to note that the Raiders one of the most penalized teams year in and year out. Even through all the coaching changes it's consistent. At some point you have to realize that not every coach is so incompetent that he can't teach his players not to commit penalties and becomes obvious the spotlight is pretty bright where the Raiders are concerned. IIRC in that tuck rule game, the Patriots were not called for a single penalty.
I attended a game in Oakland vs. the Chiefs in 2005 where the outcome was completely decided by the refs. On the first series, a 3 and out, KC punted to Chris Carr and the KC gunner grazed Carr on a fair catch as the ball was just about in his hands. Carr fumbled the catch and KC recovered near the goal line. It was an obvious interference no-call that led to a KC touchdown. Later Randy Moss got into a jump ball on a lob pass in the corner of the end zone. The much smaller CB did an NBA flop, Moss never touched him, and the TD was called back for Moss' phantom push off. Raiders settled for a field goal. On another play. LaMont Jordan ran 50+ yards for a TD around the right end. On the backside of the play, 30+ yards away from the ball carrier, the Raiders tackle was called for a very late ticky tack hold that brought the TD back, Raiders ended up punting. I watched it all on Tivo when I got home that night because I wasn't sure I believed what I saw. Final score, KC 23 Raiders 17.
As someone who drove 220 miles round trip to see the game, and spent $200 plus on tickets and parking, I just wanted to see a game played by the players. not influenced by the refs. This goes on all over the NFL, but seems to happen just a bit more often and regularly in Oakland.
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adam folarin 11 months ago
you patriots haters
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Raider Card Addict 11 months ago
Adam = Brady's secret friend when Giselle isn't home
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Jeff Little 11 months ago
Excellent Article, Jeff. I've met a few civil Pats fans but every team has true fans and people that aren't. I've been a huge Raiders fan for years, I've watched the Raiders play in almost every stadium across the country. There will unfortunately always be Raiders fan that will perpetuate the stigma that all Raiders fans are thugs and the fact of the matter is that isn't the case. Keep up the good work.
Go Raiders!!!
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Bills_Will_B_OK 11 months ago
"I have had many a conversations with NE fans. For the most part, they have been obnoxious and arrogant about their team's achievements, which has given me quite a bias against them."
So True
Great & funny article, one of the best that I have read here.
Pick of the day, fo sho !
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x 11 months ago
Sean's on crack....or just a blindly devoted Raider-hater.
The 76' roughing the passer, while a fringe call, is a judgment call that's called against the Raiders many more times than others. It's bang-bang. Much different from the Tuck call, which was rightly called a fumble on the field and where they had numerous slow-mo replays to look at. What happened to indisputable evidence to reverse a call on the field?
And a "blow to the head"?!? That is sooo lame. More like a brush of the helmet. If they called that, it would be just as controversial. What's that saying about putting dresses on QBs? I love that Patsy fans came up with that one - that's called a 'reach', my friend.
And Brady's helmet is coming off on the ground in the photo above because he just got pummeled and driven into the turf, not from the brush to his helmet.
Over.
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Eian Bell 11 months ago
wow im feelin a little bashed by my own people here. Ive been a Radiers fan since i was about 10, so thats 20 years now. I have had my lows in my life , I was addicted to meth, I was a "thug" and I am missing a few teeth (until I can get some dental insurance), but through and through I am a Raiders fan. the only super bowl we have been a part of during my tenure as a fan, I was in "the hole" in state prison and did not get to watch my beloved Raiders lose to Jon Grudens Bucs. I have since turned my life around, and have been clean for 3 years now, but given the fact that i will always be an addict and i am misssing a few teeth , i guess i am one of these toothless meth addicts that you guys are so ashamed of as Raiders Fans. On a good note, a new raiders fan is set to join the world on Nov 2 , my son Jaiden, I have already gotten him a Raiders baby blanket, and will soon be buying him some Raiders infantewar so he can join the world in style.
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Jeff McMaster 11 months ago
Eian, if you were still running around tweakin' and doing things that would get you thrown in the can, then that comment would apply to you. I commend you on your recovery, and wholeheartedly congratulate you being man enough to face it down. I hope you will teach your children well and use the humility you have earned to be a good role model for them Congrats on the little one! I myself have my first grandchild due any day now, and I am as excited as I was when my kids were born.
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BabyTate 11 months ago
You are one of us. I am a Raider fan for the last 48 years and I know you mean well in your comments. We just have to be civil in these discussions, especially when it concerns the lying' and cheatin' that New England has perpetuated on the NFL and their sham Super Bowl wins starting with the illegal tuck victory over our vastly superior team.
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Eian Bell 11 months ago
I have never been to a live game in my 20 years as a fan which is saad cuz i only live 4 hours from oakland, but when i was a kid my dad always said hed take me if his beloved cowboys came to oakland, actually la back then, and through mywasted years i didnt go obviously, and now that im in a position to go i find myself waiting a few years so i can take my son.
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Raider Revenge Payback 11 months ago
NFL network 8 pm. Count down the most contreversal calls. Hmmm were does the TUCK rule sit?
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J.C. Ayvazi 10 months ago
What a great article - just like an ASFPOR posting - only cleaner 8^}
I still get royally p.o.'ed when thinking about that sham - thanks for the antidote!
My work puts me in contact with a few New England escapees out here in LA. Most are fairly coherent but only one has gone as far as to admit the call was "a little shaky".
This game was the final straw for me though. While there is no NFL teams in LA now (not counting the NFL quality USC Trojans) I will not pay to travel and attend another game. I do enjoy watching the action and will place some wagers in Vegas, but I will not contribute any $ to this criminal enterprise. I had hopes with the new commish, but his whitewashing of the Pats* shows he's in the bag as well. So be it - I just hope the league never does return to LA - that way there are no blackouts on Sunday Ticket.
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