In order for Amare Stoudemire to become recognized as one of the top-five power forwards in the NBA, he first needs to stop committing stupid fouls.
It seems to me everytime he plays a power forward that is within that top-five echelon, he is in foul trouble, and most of the time he's committing ticky-tack fouls. Sure, some of them probably weren't fouls in the first place, but his problem is that he tries too hard on defense and doesn't let the game flow. That's why he gets into foul trouble.
Just take a look at his average fouls per game against the top forwards. Against Tim Duncan, Stoudemire averaged 3.9 fouls per game; against Chris Bosh, 4.8; Jermaine O'Neal, 3.8; Lamarcus Aldridge, 3.6; Dirk Nowitzki, 3.4; Elton Brand, 2.8; and Al Harrington, 2.8. So, even against the non-elite power forwards, but definitely talented players, he still struggles to remain in the game.
I guess that's part of the reason why Stoudemire annoys me so much, and I can't really stand him because he's always getting into the foul trouble and is put on the bench, or he's complaining about the call. Stoudemire has all the talent in the world to be a dominating power forward, and he's doing that offensively, but defensively there's no reason why he's only averaging 1.5 blocks per game in his career. He should be at anywhere between 2-3 per game with his athleticism and basketball instincts.
Knee problems aside, there's also no reason why he should be under 10 boards per game for his career, as well as never having a season averaging 10 rebounds per game. Right now his career average is 9.1 and his career high for a season is 9.6 rebounds per game. Some players like Troy Murphy have averaged over 10 boards per game; Murphy has done it in three different seasons, Donyell Marshall has one season averaging more than 10 boards per game, Chris Bosh already has one, etc. These are good players, but Stoudemire has the tools be even better than the former two and as good as Bosh.
Some people argue that Elton Brand is too short to be a power forward, but at 6'8" he's two inches shorter than Amare, Brand has six seasons over 10 boards per game and is at 10.2 boards per game in his career. Likewise, Lamar Odom is an inch shorter than Amare, and Al Jefferson is the same heighth as Stoudemire and each player has at least averaged over 10 boards per game twice for their careers.
In order for Amare to become that dominant player and be put into the top 5 power forwards he needs dominate in all categories.
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2 months ago
stoudemire already had his breakout season. dude where were you the season before his surgery and where were you afterward. The surgeries have definitely curtailed his athleticism and you can see a slow progression back to where he was. In addition, the guy didnt get full basketball training; i mean he was probably the most raw player the nba ever saw - started ball 14, 4 years later hes in the nba WTH. Look stoudemire is a monster offensive player with an ok defensive game. They brought in shaq and now lopez for a reason: to set him loose on offense. I hope you're joking about the almost as good as bosh comment. id you watch the orlando v toronto series? I've never seen dwight howard eat amare up before. In fact, ive seen amare dunk on and block him plenty a time (this is just one example). Im from Toronto, and Bosh is our great hope, but I've always said hes overrated, straight
DONT EVER COMPARE THE TWO.
2 months ago
Are you really trying to use the card of he never played organized basketball until he was 14 as the reason why he's so good? Please! I'd take Chris Bosh over Amare Stoudemire anyday of the week. Stoudemire should be dominating and he's always had the skill set to do it, but he has never tapped into it. 25 and 9 is decent, but it's nowhere dominating and it will not get him in the top 5 for Power Forwards if he can't get at least 10 boards a game. Using his knee injury as an excuse doesn't cut it for me. Bosh is going to be even more dangerous with Jermaine O'Neal in the front court with him. Sorry but Stoudemire to be dominating has to do it on both ends of the court.
from 2 months ago
Geez 25 and 9 is decent? In case you didn't know, Bosh averaged 22 and 9 last season. So what would you rate Bosh since Amare's 25 and 9 is only decent? Oh and Amare's numbers beat Bosh's numbers in almost every category. Amare's blocks last season 2.1, Bosh's blocks last season 1.0. Yet you say Bosh over Amare? Bosh averaging 10 boards in one season is because Bosh has nobody else to rebound! Amare has always had a sidekick (Marion, and now Shaq).
And you're second to last paragraph you state "Some people argue that Stoudemire is too short to be a power forward, but at 6'10" he's two inches bigger than Brand...." I've never heard anyone say Stoudemire is too short to be a power forward, EVER. The average height for PF is 6'10, 6'11.
Amare is in the third best player in fantasy basketball behind Lebron James and Dwight Howard. Amare is No. 1 in points per 48 minutes, Eff per 48 minutes and FG's per 48 minutes. In saying so, if Amare were to play more, he'd be more dominate.
And Amare averaging 4 fouls against Duncan is nothing. If I remember correctly Amare averaged a monster 37 points in a playoff series against Tim Duncan and the Spurs.
2 months ago
Amare >> Bosh
...and I am from Toronto as well. Imagine if we had Amare instead of Bosh...he wouldn't be soft or die in the clutch. Bosh is a better defensive player (marginally), other than that, Amare is more talented, more athletic, a bigger game-changer, plays agressively, knows how to play the pick-n-roll to almost perfection (think ex-Rap TJ + Amare...wow), a good mid-range (not as good as Bosh, but he does not rely on it as much as Bosh does), better finisher, more experience (playoff especially), etc...
2 months ago
You have lost all credibility by saying you would take Bosh over Amare any day of the week. Anybody who knows basketball knows what an idiotic statement that is.
Buddy, I want you to do something for me.... Take a look at the top 10 scoring leaders last season and look at FG%. Amare is .100 and in many cases .150 better than everybody else. I don't know how good you are with math, but just realize that that is a freakishly high field goal percentage for someone that attempts as many shots as him. The next person even close to him after Dwight Howard is not even in the top 50 leading scorers!
Now lets talk about Efficiency rating so we can shut people like you up once at for all. Lebron #1, Amare #2! Nuff said. Thats right #2 most efficient player in the game.
Bosh? He just isn't even on the same planet....Did I mention Amare was #6 in MVP voting when Bosh didn't even get one vote????
p.s Bosh is ugly and so is his deformed jump shot. Amare has a pure stroke and thats the actual cause of his almost 60% FG shooting, but he can dunk on your head at any given moment as well. Go watch a Suns game and educate yourself.
2 months ago
Don't bother trying to argue Chris Bosh over Amare anymore! Just see below..... Where is Chris? What had happened was... what had happened was.... see what had happened was Chris is not on here at all NBA Most Valuable Player Award Voting Results Player Team 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Total Points Kobe Bryant L.A. Lakers 82 32 10 2 - 1100 Chris Paul New Orleans 28 64 32 2 - 894 Kevin Garnett Boston 15 23 56 26 1 670 LeBron James Cleveland 1 7 28 77 8 438 Dwight Howard Orlando - - - 7 39 60 Amaré Stoudemire Phoenix - - - 3 18 27 Tim Duncan San Antonio - - - 2 19 25 Tracy McGrady Houston - - - 2 13 19 Steve Nash Phoenix - - - 4 6 18 Manu Ginobili San Antonio - - - - 9 9 Dirk Nowitzki Dallas - - - - 5 5 Deron Williams Utah - - - - 4 4 Carmelo Anthony Denver - - - 1 - 3 Paul Pierce Boston - - - - 1 1 Rasheed Wallace Detroit - - - - 1 1 Carlos Boozer Utah - - - - 1 1 Antawn Jamison Washington - - - - 1 1
2 months ago
Amare certainly has the tools to be a top 5 PF, however will he put it together? I agree he commits stupid fouls, he was 3rd in the league in fouls/game (to make matters worse, Shaq was 2nd!). Considering they have the big lead foot next to him and a rookie big coming off the bench, if the Suns are going to go anywhere Amare needs to be a bigger defensive presence. Even more so because their PG probably couldn't guard the lines on the floor. Everyone on here keeps talking about Amare on the offensive end, IT'S WELL KNOWN HE DOMINATES THERE! He is also better than everyone mentioned in this article with the exception of Tim Duncan, Elton Brand and maybe Dirk, though Dirk isn't the traditional PF. It is time for him to step up his defense, he could have a breakout season, but it would have to be defensively, because he already has his offensive one. The guy is a flat out animal on the break and driving to hoop.
2 months ago
Before you attack and say I have lost all credibility with taking Bosh over Stouodemire lets just take a look head to head. Sure Chris Bosh loses on field goal percentage against Bosh, Blocks, Steals, but rebounding 9.8 for Bosh against Stoudemire who's at 7 rebounds per game. Bosh is at 84 percent from the line where Stoudemire is at 74 percent from the line. Head to Head Bosh has averaged 24 points per game and Stoudemire is at 25. Chris Bosh is two years younger then Stoudemire and will be able to score more this year because well Jermaine O'Neal takes away he constant double teams. Bosh is also a better 3 point shooter then Stoudemire it kind of makes up for the difference between field goal percentage the 49 percent to 59 percent. Bosh was at 40 percent and Stoudemire was at 16 percent. Stoudemire definitely improved his free throw percentage to 81 percent last year but Bosh was at 84 percent. I fixed the too short part to what I meant it to say.
from 2 months ago
Head to Head? Thats the best you got? Bosh took a total 25 threes last year......credibility reaching critically low level.....
Please just DELETE this article..... It sucks
You still haven't answered the question- What place did Bosh come in for the MVP voting? LMAO
from 2 months ago
tommy,
Amare has nash on his team, nash create shots for amare. Bosh creates shots for himself.
2 months ago
1. Head to head means something, but not everything (think Lebron stats vs. Kobe, Kobe is a better player but Lebron has better head-head stats)
2. Remember that Bosh does not even have one other decent rebounder on his team. Amare has Shaq and had Marion, both can eat 10 boards in a game. The Raps second leading rebounder was Moon, a small forward who played half a game because his lack of offence. Bosh should have averaged at least 10 boards a game last year, but didn't.
3. Amare averaged 29 9 rebs, and 2 blocks in March with Shaq by his side and played his NATURAL position at PF. Those are "Top 5 PF" stats for sure.
4. "Bosh is a better 3-point shooter". You had a fighting chance of defending Bosh, but after this statement, it's clear you are trying to find ONE thing Bosh is better than Stoudemire. First off Bosh has no business shooting threes unless he changes his name to Dirk Nowitzki. Second Bosh took 25 three pointers last year (took 1027 FG shots all last year), your sayin that accounts for a 10% difference in the field goals?
I watched at least 80 of 82 Raptors game every year, I watch Bosh and know his game. Everytime I see Amare play I wish Bosh had his aggressiveness and tenacity.
....and yes, you have lost all your credibility because your points are completely wrong.
from 2 months ago
"Amare averaged 29 9 rebs, and 2 blocks in March with Shaq by his side and played his NATURAL position at PF. Those are "Top 5 PF" stats for sure"
-could not have said it any better
2 months ago
Both Bosh and Stoudemire went out of the playoffs in 5 games. Stoudemire against Duncan. Bosh against Howard. Stoudemire averaged 23.2 points per game and 9 rebounds. Bosh 24 points per game and 9 rebounds per game. So similar stats in the playoffs.
from 2 months ago
How about Amare averaging 37 points a game vs the Spurs?
I think Bosh may have dreamed about doing that once!
2 months ago
The reason why I would take Bosh over Stoudemire is that Bosh is more in control of his emotions, he's not going to pick up those ticky tack fouls that Stoudemire has been proned to do. Bosh is within the top 10 power forwards, but the problem is that he has problems against the more skilled big men who have better footwork. He then gets into trouble because he has a hard time moving his feet causing him to pick up those fouls. If you're averaging 4.8 fouls per game head to head against Chris Bosh then there's something wrong with Stoudemire. I mean if you look at their head to head stats Bosh has scored the most points in a game against Stoudemire with 42 points, he's picked up the most rebounds when going head to head with 14, in fact Stoudemire has only one game against Bosh that he had double digits in rebounds. My point is that in order for Stoudemire to become this dominant big man he needs to stay out of foul trouble, trust his foot work, and rebound better.
There's a reason why people say that Tim Duncan is the best Power Forward the NBA has ever seen. It's because of his great footwork, his ability to rebound the ball, he's not a ferocious player, but he's resilient he goes after it and after it until he succeeds. Stoudemire I think has given up on even trying to remotely become a solid rebounder and defender in the post. Why do you think they needed players like Boris Diaw and Shawn Marion? Too help out with length down low on double teams because Stoudemire doesn't have the footwork to play defense against the likes of a Jermaine O'Neal, Chris Bosh, or a Tim Duncan. In fact the most effective defender against Duncan in the playoffs for the Suns was Shaq, but even then Duncan still gave Shaq problems.
2 months ago
I dont know where you are going with this playoff stat, but I will play along.
Amare is a much more proven playoff performer (actually made it out of the first round). I've seen first hand how bad Bosh is in the playoffs...indecision, forcing shots, not playing the game the same way as in the regular season.
Stoudemire career 25PPG 10RBG 2BPG in playoffs vs Bosh 20.5 9 and 1.5.
Stoudemire has played more games (harder to keep averages up or at least consistent) and has played tougher defences (i.e. Spurs), Bosh has had to play Nets/Magic (not known for their defence).
Bosh split stats vs. the Spurs show 10.5PPG and 8.5RPG last year, even though it was only 2 games, when he played against the Spurs he clearly struggled (like anyone else). But Amare put up much better numbers against the Spurs while being in the playoffs.
Bosh played against an undersized four (Rashard Lewis) and STILL struggled during this year's playoffs, Amare played solid defenders (Duncan) and team defense (Spurs) and still put up similar numbers, so your not helping out your own case. When you get shut down by Jason Collins against the Nets from 2 years ago, that is saying something about your playoff performance. You think Duncan, Garnett, Stoudemire, Brand, etc would have gotten abused by the Nets defence? No way Jose! (also a pun for the terrible pass Calderon threw to end that season).
And if you are "just" looking at stats (I am convinced you've never seen Bosh play more than 5 games, or your just ignorant), Joe Johnson averaged 20 4 4 for ATL, Paul Pierce averaged 20 5 5 in this year's playoffs....Would you say these two are on the same level? Not a chance. By looking at only stats, you can only say so much.
PS. This hurts alot because I am the biggest Raptor fan, so stop trying to defend yourself because I will just keep proving you wrong.
PPS. NEITHER BOSH/STOUDEMIRE are great defensively, but at least Stoudemire averages more blocks.
PPPS. Amare came back from the same knee surgery that have costed so many player's careers, both in the NBA and NFL, his passion/time/effort to come back from this injury and perform at the highest level (as one of the TOP PFs IN THE NBA and put him in the upper echelon in the NBA) should not be underappreciated and unnoticed by common fans like you and I.
But wait, I appreciate and notice his level of play.
from 2 months ago
The guy obviously has no clue what he's talking about. Amare is already a top five player in the league, to say he isn't even top 5 PF's is ridiculous.
Its funny how he didn't respond directly to my first comment I'm assuming he knew I was right.
from 2 months ago
This guy is such a lost cause. It is a shame.....
He doesn't even respond to comments that rip him to shreads.....
Amare will be playing PF next year for the entire year thanks to Shaqs arival. Get used to 29-32? pts per game, Steven. His blocks will be in the 2 range as well.
STAT will be consider for MVP, while Bosh will be making stupid commercials trying to get voted in for the allstar game.
p.s Bosh is soft
2 months ago
I didn't know shooting 47 percent from the floor, 83 percent from the free throw line, and having a game of 39 points and 15 rebounds was considered struggling. Considering that Amare struggled against Duncan. Hmmmmmm at least every playoff game this year Bosh scored in double figures. Amare had a game of 7 points. Wow! What a great playoff run by Amare this year! Oh wait again the Suns can't get past the Spurs oh and Amare has had a ton of talent surrounding him. It's just the Chris Bosh show up in Toronto. While Chris Bosh low in the playoffs was 15.
But again you still ignore the fact that in order to be a complete power forward you have to play defense and Amare doesn't. Why do you think D'Antoni was fired. He refused to practice defense and that is why the Suns under D'Antoni with Marion and Nash have never reached the Finals. Keep thinking that Amare is in the top 5.
By the way you're trying to say that because Amare had surgery on his knee that has cost so many other players their career. Good point, but didn't Zach Randolph come back from that same surgery? Oh yes he did! Sure Randolph has never been the above the rim type player he still averaged 24 and 10. Oh there goes the surgery angle. In order to be a power forward in this league you have to be able to average double figures in rebouding. If Danny Fortson can average a double double there's no reason why Amare Stoudemire can't average a double. Sorry you're right stats can't show you who outplayed who, but you can definitely tell that Amare should be doing better than he is if other players in the league that don't have the explosivness that Amare has can still average a double double then you know that he has problems.
from 2 months ago
If Danny Fortson can average a double double there's no reason why Lebron James can't average a double. If Danny Fortson can average a double double there's no reason why Kobe Bryant can't average a double. Sorry you're right stats can't show you who outplayed who, but you can definitely tell that Lebron/Kobe should be doing better than he is if other players in the league that don't have the explosivness that Lebron/Kobe has can still average a double double then you know that he has problems.
Should I name a few other players perhaps PF/C (Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitzki, Kenyon Martin, Rasheed Wallace, David West)
I'm guessing these guys have problems too.
Amare barely transitioned to his natural position of Power Forward when the Suns got Shaq. Amare has no defense? What does 2.1 blocks per game tell you? Bosh didn't get that, Tim Duncan was close, but Amare still had more blocks.
Zach Randolph had one season when he got 24 and 10. But what team was that for? Oh thats right, the Blazers. A team at the time who should have been in the NBDL (not literally of course). Amare actually has guys around him, and still averages 25 and 9. Fortson also didn't have guys around him when he averaged a double double.
I'm guessing you are a Lakers fan, yes?
2 months ago
Yes, Amare scored 7 pts in one of the playoff games. Did you seriously watch that game? It was a complete blowout from the beginning. Suns also used a complete different strategy in that game. Give the ball to Diaw and abuse his mis-match advantage.
Amare is a bad defender, no doubt. But apparently, one of your top 5 PF, Chris Bosh plays D? Boy, I missed something.
Chris Bosh shows up in Toronto, but never stepped into the 2nd round in his life.
Suns always had a 10+ RPG guy next to Amare. Marion who averaged 10 + and Shaq who also averaged 10+. They also had wings who are very good rebounders. Grant Hill, Q-Rich, Diaw.
"Sorry you're right stats can't show you who outplayed who, but you can definitely tell that Amare should be doing better than he is if other players in the league"
SUUUUUUUUUREEE. Then according to PER stats, Amare is the 3rd beast player in the league-stat wise.
Lets look
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics
One of the worst articles I have ever read, the stupid comments isn't helping either.
2 months ago
Amare's career high in blocks is 2.1 per game before that it was 1.6 blocks per game. What was that the first year ever that Stoudemire averaged more blocks then Duncan? Yes it was. 1.9 to 2.1 hmmm not much of a difference. Duncan for his career averages 2.4 blocks per game which is more then Stoudemire's career high of 2.1
Also I never said tha Bosh was better than Stoudemire I was just comparing that Stoudemire can't stay on the floor against the talented Power Forwareds who aren't necessarily powerful like he is but more adept at using a variety of moves to get to the hoop. Sorry, but it's true none of your comments have shown me that Stoudemire is deserving to be in the top 5 yet.
from 2 months ago
Seriously? You are basing this whole thing on blocks? on blocks? Notice how Amare's block sky boosted last year? He was used as a hustle player in the FIBA's, which helped his weakside defense.
Amare plays 34 minutes a game. I don't see how that is a problem like you are making it out to be. Suns also have Diaw right behind Amare in the depth chart.
Very pathetic arguments. The only PF Amare matched up against a whole game was against KG, last year. Which he doesn't play against big minutes, because Diaw takes the responsibility a little later on. Amare is a bad defender, Suns let him guard usually the weaker big man like Oberto and Rasho.
from 2 months ago
Then why have you been defending Bosh being better than Stoudemire for so long?
I do agree that Amare has to VASTLY improve his defence. He should stop committing stupid fouls (did you see him plow over Kurt Thomas in Game 1? He had a wide open jumper with 40 seconds to go), and grab at least 10 rebounds. You are right in that Stoudemire isn't a top 5 player yet (though he is a top 5 power forward), but has the potential to be the BEST player in the game.
2 months ago
I'm basing on the fact that he's foul proned and if he's so great defensively why does he have to hand off the power forward to Boris Diaw? Or have to have help? The reason is because if he was left one on one with them he would foul out in 10 minutes.
from 2 months ago
Kobe is in the 1st team ALL NBA defense every year. He guards Rondo, Bell, Bowen instead of the other teams best perimeter player. Why does he need players like Sasha guard Ray and Radman guard Pierce when he is clearly superior than both?
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