I've recently had the pleasure of reading an article entitled, "SEC Envy" by Bleacher Report's own Donald Fincher.
It brought up some very interesting and irrelevant points as to why Mr. Fincher believes that SEC football is superior to Pac-10 football. I am here to dispel them and make SEC football look even worse than I already have done in my first five editions of "Pac-10 Football Is Better Than SEC Football," the series.
SEC Fans Must Label Themselves "SEC Fans" Because Their Not Good Enough Alone
In Mr. Fincher's profile, he claims that he is, "a college football nut, a SEC fan, and a Arkansas Razerbacks fan." I find it interesting that every fan of an SEC team has to represent for the entire SEC. Why is that?
No other conference in college football needs to talk about their conference more than the SEC. If an Oregon fan were on this site, they would say, "I'm an Oregon fan," not, "I'm a Pac-10 fan and an Oregon fan." And its not just Donald Fincher who feels the need to represent the SEC all the time - it's every single person associated with the SEC.
Prior to the 2006 California-Tennessee contest, there were chants of SEC coming from the Tennessee huddle. Why can't you just play football, do you have something to prove? Why can't you stand alone and have pride in your program? Why do you always have to bring your conference into the mix?
Auburn Tiger fan Liger called me out on "Pac-10 Football is Better Than SEC Football: Part One" when he said, "Sorta reminds me of car commercials that go on and on about how thier cars are better than Mercedes...I'm thinking, heck, the fact that you must compare yourself to Mercedes tells me you think they are the best," due to the fact I was comparing the Pac-10 with the SEC.
Liger, sorry buddy, but I'm comparing the SEC with the Pac-10 because everyone has a misperception that the SEC is somehow a better conference than the Pac-10.
Now, let's take a look at some of the dubious and irrelevant points that Donald Fincher makes in his attempt to derail my series that is turning people's minds upside-down.
"We Should Discard the Pac-10 and SEC's Head-to-Head Matchups"
Many of Mr. Fincher's arguments are one-sided and therefore I can hardly take them seriously. The first quotation I have a problem with is: "...The Pac-10 is 5-2 against the SEC since 2000 [discounting LSU and USC's wins]. Now, consider that Mississippi State (a perennial SEC cellar dweller) and 'Bama (during their NCAA probation and coaching-carousel years) account for four of those five losses and you get a different story."
Well now, let's take one more look at those games, listed below for convenience.
2000
Alabama 24, UCLA 35 {PAC10}
2001
UCLA 20, Alabama 17 {PAC10}
2002
Auburn 17, USC 24 {PAC10}
Mississippi State 13, Oregon 36 {PAC10}
2003
USC 23, Auburn 0 {PAC10}
LSU 59, Arizona 13 {SEC}
Oregon 42, Mississippi State 34 {PAC10}
2004
Oregon State 21, LSU 22 {SEC}
2005
Arkansas 17, USC 70 {PAC10}
LSU 35, Arizona State 31 {SEC}
2006
USC 50, Arkansas 14 {PAC10}
Washington State 14, Auburn 40 {SEC}
Arizona 3, LSU 45 {SEC}
California 18, Tennessee 35 {SEC}
2007
Tennessee 31, California 45 {PAC10}
Interesting how Mr. Fincher mentions the low-rated teams that the Pac-10 beat, but fails to mention the sub-par teams from the Pac-10 that the SEC played.
With the exception of the 2006 California-Tennesse game, the SEC (less LSU) beat the Pac-10 one time. And that was when Auburn beat a Washington State team who finished 6-6 and 4-5 in the Pac-10 in 2006.
Why don't we just throw out every head-to-head matchup between the two conferences? Because it would certainly be better for the SEC to rid themselves of all those head-to-head losses! Yes, Mr. Fincher, it would be good to just discard all those games because the bottom line is that the Pac-10 has beat up on the SEC when they have battled head-to-head since 2002.
"The SEC Has Done Spectacular Post-Season Play"
Mr. Fincher goes on to claim, "the SEC went to nine bowl games last year and won seven including their two BCS bowls...which means they are beating quality teams from other conferences in the postseason as well."
If this claim is supposed to mean that the SEC can compete with teams out of conference, then think again. One, the fact remains that the SEC does not schedule quality teams out of conference. When you play a bowl game, you must play a certain team, you don't get to chicken out with who you face. Two, playing a team in a bowl game coming off three or four weeks rest is a whole other animal than playing a game with injuries in the grind of a season.
Also, these are not necessarily quality teams that the SEC is beating. Yes, Auburn over Clemson, Tennessee over Wisconsin, and LSU over Ohio State are all impressive wins. But the rest of that 7-2 record? It includes an embarassing loss to Michigan, a blowout win by Missouri, and wins over 6-7 Colorado, UCF, and roster-depleted Florida State.
To make things worse, Mr. Fincher goes on to try and justify these losses (a true SEC fan always does). He says, "the bowl losses were by Florida to a Michigan team that was playing lights out because their seniors (Henne, Hart, etc.) had never won a bowl game, and the whole team wanted to send Lloyd Carr out with a win." This is the same type of resistance I met when I said USC smacked the same teams LSU barely beat. Nic Gulas told me, "Four of the games that you picked out for comparison [between USC and LSU] are rivalry games for LSU. Arkanas battles for the Golden Boot year in and year out and Auburn-LSU is quite an intense and defensive game."
Again, what in the world makes you think that a team doesn't try as hard against non-SEC opponents? What makes you think that just because Michigan wants to win a game that's how they won it? Didn't Florida also want to win that game, or did they just say, "Oh, Michigan wants it more because of their seniors and their coach, so we should hand them the game"? What makes you think those Florida seniors didn't want to go out victorious?
When you ask yourself these questions, you begin to see how dumb that argument is.
"The SEC Schedules Tough Non-Conference Games"
Another rediculous claim made by Mr. Fincher in "SEC Envy" states that the SEC plays a rigorous non-conference schedule. He says, "While the SEC is still playing some cream puffs in the early non-conference, so is everyone else."
Well buddy, as I stated before in "Pac-10 Football Is Better Than SEC Football: Part One" the SEC has scheduled ten FCS games this year as opposed to the Pac-10's two.
To make matters worse, you go on to say that the SEC has some great non-conference games this year. For a full discussion of how a Pac-10 schedule dominates the SEC's schedule, take a look at "Pac-10 Football Is Better Than SEC Football: Part Two." In brief, here are some of the games you list:
- Arkansas vs. Texas -- This is the exception. A quality non-conference opponent in Texas.
- Tennessee vs. UCLA -- The same UCLA that the entire Pac-10 plays every year?
- Georgia vs. Arizona State -- The same Arizona State the entire Pac-10 plays every year?
- Alabama vs. Clemson -- Play week one so as not to hurt Alabama's final rankings. If Alabama plays decent in the SEC, they will finish the season Top 25.
- Florida vs. Miami -- The same Miami that has turned in 7-6 and 5-7 seasons the past two years?
- Florida vs. Florida State -- The Seminoles don't have more than eight wins in a season since 2004.
- South Carolina vs. Clemson -- A quality game.
- Georgia vs. Georgia Tech -- The Yellow Jackets have gone 7-6 every year since 2002 with the exception of 2006.
- Auburn vs. West Virginia -- A quality game.
Why don't you take a look at those non-conference games and compare them to the non-conference games the Pac-10 plays this year. #3 Oklahoma? #2 Ohio State? Notre Dame? Penn State? #25 Fresno State? #20 Virginia? Michigan State? Maryland? The list goes on.
Irrelevant Point Number One: The Heisman
Mr. Fincher, presumably running out of ammunition about half way through his article says, "an SEC player won the Heisman last year (Tebow), and an SEC player was also the runner up (McFadden). In fact, McFadden was the runner up two years in a row."
First off, I don't really care who wins the Heisman. How does that make you a better conference? But if you really want to argue, then we can.
The Pac-10's won the Heisman three out of the last five years, while the SEC has won it once. The Pac-10 has 11 Heisman Finalists (top 10 in Heisman votes), while the SEC has four since 2002. So I guess that Pac-10 is superior in that category as well.
And let me also say that before everyone jumps to say that all three Heismans were won by USC players, those eleven finalists come from USC, Washington State, Oregon, and Cal. The SEC's four come from Arkansas, LSU, and Florida.
Irrelevant Point Number Two - The SEC Produces More Pros
One other point Mr. Fincher states is that, "the SEC has more players in the pros than any other conference." I don't care how much talent you produce; the only thing that matters is how good the players are in college. USC receiver Mike Williams was a great college player but a terrible professional. How does that affect how he did at USC?
Irrelevant Point Number Three - SEC Coaches Own More National Championships
The next irrelevant point is that, "the SEC has five coaches who have won national championship games (twice as many as any other conference)." How does that make a difference? It may mean that the SEC has more tradition, it may mean that they put together better gameplans, but the bottom line is that production on the field makes you a better conference, not how many national titles your head coaches have combined.
Irrelevant Point Number Four - Attendance and Money
The author of "SEC Envy" continues to babble on about nothing that has anything to do with the Pac-10 versus SEC debate when he mentions that, "the SEC has by far the highest attendance of any league..." and that, "the SEC is by far the highest revenue-producing conference of any league." That has nothing to do with how well the teams play.
I look up to the sky and ask myself, "Why do SEC fans constantly have to defend themselves that they are the best conference?" But the answer comes time and time again that they are just not. The Pac-10 is. And in the famous words of Mr. Fincher, "now if I could only figure out why that seems to be such a bad thing to so many people. That keeps eluding me."
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3 months ago
south carolina- clemson a quality game?
3 months ago
While you're looking up to the sky, maybe you'll realize that you just wrote a five part series attacking us, which you have ended by asking why we constantly have to defend ourselves.
3 months ago
This was by far not a letter, but some more garb that most of us will just scroll through and not give a second thought to once we post our comments.
"SEC Fans Must Label Themselves "SEC Fans" Because Their Not Good Enough Alone"
Ive got my Alabama Crimson Tide locked and loaded, ready to go, and since you say Heismans are irrelevant, this one is in the bag by an even wider margin.
"Alabama vs. Clemson -- Play week one so as not to hurt Alabama's final rankings. If Alabama plays decent in the SEC, they will finish the season Top 25. "
Yes, at Alabama we strategically place our OOC games so as not to hurt our final rankings. Lets forget the fact that we make these scheules 7 years in advance and the fact this game was finalized not even a year ago, so yes, we planned back in 2001 to have a spot open for a team which isnt considered quality when we play them, but when another team does, it is. Good call there.
"Why don't you take a look at those non-conference games and compare them to the non-conference games the Pac-10 plays this year. #3 Oklahoma? #2 Ohio State? Notre Dame? Penn State? #25 Fresno State? #20 Virginia? Michigan State? Maryland? The list goes on."
First, why dont you provide us all the information we need to make an informed decision about this argument by providing the rankings of the teams the SEC is playing. Anyone not trying to slant the arugment and write an unbiased article would do so for his readers. Second, Virginia is not a top 20 team. No one of credibility is claming them to even be in the top 50 this year, so quite ruining what little remaining credibility you have left and shut up on that point.
"I don't care how much talent you produce; the only thing that matters is how good the players are in college. "
Yea, production in college does nothing to help your draft stock. No, not at all. What a ridiculous thought.
"How does that make a difference? It may mean that the SEC has more tradition, it may mean that they put together better gameplans, but the bottom line is that production on the field makes you a better conference, not how many national titles your head coaches have combined"
To get that many national titles, the coaches have to put teams on the field that produce, otherwise they wouldnt have a NC to their name. Its a full circle, you just seem to like bits and pieces of it. I would tell you to try the whole pie, but that would drown your argument too fast and ruin my entertainment on this site.
3 months ago
Now I'm positive that you're just trying to generate hits on your articles...it's actually a good idea...come up with something utterly ridiculous that will generate controversy and make your name known. It works all the time in the media. Great job.
3 months ago
Great points Nic. And, Thomas, thanks for pumping up the hits on my article. As far as issuing a defense of myself in regards to this attempt to write a scathing piece on my article, it appears that others are already on the case. They are calling out the selective nuggets of information you are (and more importantly) are not mentioning. I do have to marvel at one thing though. What week of the season Alabama is playing Clemson is irrelevant. You argued that the SEC teams didn't schedule quality and then when I mention some games that refute that, we get treated to tripe talking about at what point in the season the game is being played. I think you (and apparently the others that are reading this) are easily starting to see that you are reaching. I would have thought you had an ax to grind against the SEC and then I saw on your profile you were an Arkansas alumni so I wonder why the point of trying to denigrate the conference your alma mater is in. While it is difficult to imagine your reasoning, you are nonetheless trying to push a boulder uphill as we both know that the SEC (whether you agree with it or like it) is widely considered the best conference in college by the majority of the sports world. So, I still wonder aloud why so many in the college football world seem to have a problem with that. You certainly seem to and are spending a lot of energy trying to change the average person's mind. But I guess at this time of year, when there aren't many other college football headlines, this is the sort of thing that keeps us entertained.
3 months ago
The gig is up, man.
This act is tired.
3 months ago
One more thing...did you know that, according to the highly regarded Phil Steele, the 3 toughest schedules in the country this year belong to the SEC and the Pac 10? Specifically, Arkansas and Georgia have 2 of the 3 toughest schedules in the country this year. The Pac 10 team is Washington.
3 months ago
This is just getting ridiculous man. Give it a rest, you made your point even though almost everyone is laughing at this point. You think the Pac-10 is better than the SEC, you have a right to believe that. Give it a damn rest man, nobody is taking you seriously, just give it a rest.
3 months ago
what a waste of time. pac who????? give me a break.
3 months ago
Mr. Thomas you have outdone yourself my friend.
You remind me of that sniper in blackhawk down fighting off thousands of crazed, drug fueled, and probably retarded somalians or leonidis fighting of the numerically superior persians in a miraculous but vain attempt to convince your enemies that there is another way of life beyond SEC football. That there are other conferences that play football at a high level. That perhaps outside of LSU & Florida the SEC rarely impresses people outside of the southern states.
Clearly a quality argument was made as it has erupted into an SEC comment feeding frenzy. Your point that they must continually defend themselves as a whole rather than as a particular school has been show with these comments.
Yes the SEC is a great conference but when did it become second nature for the rest of you to live through the achievements of rival schools? LSU and Florida fans can say what they want; but the rest of you need to step out of their shadow or quit defending your teams inferiorty through the superiorty of your conference. ou know the Big 12 & 10 dominated at one point in college football history and I didn't hear people from kansas state or purdue telling me how good their conference was.
Or how bout you guys get rid of Vandy; then I'll be on your side.
3 months ago
Didn't even read this article because I didn't want to waste my time. The title was enough for me.
The Pac-10 isn't as good as the SEC in football, period. Nothing more to say. This is a stupid argument that is a waste of time.
from 3 months ago
Wow great logic there Justin!
3 months ago
I'm convinced that all of this is simply an effort to get noticed, considering the author wrote an article a month ago on why USC sucks (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27686-usc-football-it-sucks), followed by an article on why Tiger Woods isn't a good golfer, which is about the only thing I know of that's more absurd than most of the arguments in this series. Congrats on all the traffic.
from 3 months ago
Will has nailed it.
In fact, please check out what "Thomas Brown" used to call himself for his first few articles. It's written in his teaser.
3 months ago
I have one simple question...is there any team besides Troy that is playing BOTH teams from the Championship Game...Ohio State AND LSU in the same season? Can the PAC-10 and SEC claim that? I know the SEC plays LSU...but do any play Ohio State?
from 3 months ago
USC does this year...?
from 3 months ago
No Troy is the only one
3 months ago
I tried to do this in my article: Big Ten Football needs to admit they have a problem - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/31218-college-football-big-ten-must-admit-they-have-a-problem
I tried to put it in numbers, so here it is. Since the BCS started USC is the only Pac-10 team to go to multiple BCS games. The last team other than the Trojans to go to a BCS bowl was Washington State in 2003.
The SEC has four teams who have gone to multiple BCS games including two each the past two years.
3 months ago
USC only plays Ohio State.
3 months ago
You are trying to hard to prove your point, is it envy? When you look at the facts they point to the SEC hands down. Even an Ohio St fan would admit it.
3 months ago
Why do we in the SEC name ourselves as part of the SEC? IT's a Southern Thing. Yes, we try to kill each other on the field, but in the end, IT IS ONE FOR ALL AND ALL FOR ONE! I have even learned to pull for the gators, whom I loathe most of the year.
Get a grip,Man. Try to find some stronger objections. Let's see, as I recall, Their are 4 SEC wins in the BCS and it looks like this year Georgia may go all the way or maybe my LSU tigers will win it for a third time. By the way thanks for the compliement about LSU; however, LSU is Part of the SEC.
3 months ago
I might have read this article if this PAC-10 hack could write and punctuate. The fact he can't throws the rest of his argument against the SEC into suspicion.
3 months ago
Perhaps, sir , you should consult (in-house) with Bleacher Reports' own Mr. Michael Shelby who just published an article ranking the conferences.
Guess who he has as #1...???
VanDSIRROM
2 months ago
Let us go to the source an actual player Tight End Na’Derris Ward, a transfer from Georgia has just enrolled at Oregon and has joined the Ducks for summer workouts.
“It’s beautiful here,” he says of Eugene. “Down there, it’s cloudy and disgusting. I like it here, the atmosphere, the coaching staff.”
Whereas Georgia could contend for the national championship, “I think we can make some noise and make it into the top five,” (Only because they are over rated as a conference) He says. “I’ve noticed our athletes. We have a lot of talented athletes, and it’s no different here compared to Georgia.” Keep in mind this is Oregon he is talking about not USC.
Every Pac10 team gets the shaft unless it is all might USC. Oregon State got the shaft in 2000 when they should have been National Champions. Oregon got the shaft in 2002.
Bottom line is no one gives the Pac 10 any respect because not very many people watch Pac 10 games. If people on the East Coast stayed up and watch a Pac 10 game they would find it far more entertaining than any SEC game. The SEC is over rated. They are full of themselves and insecure.
Na’Derris Ward knows what’s up Georgia is a miserable place to live and Pac 10 has just as much talent.
from 2 months ago
haha i love this steve
from 2 months ago
You mean a player transfers cause he doesn't get playing time and then says something bad about his previous team/conference. If someone besides USC ever won the Pac 10, we'd take you serious. USC has carried the Pac 10 for the last six years. You better pray that Pete Carroll never gets the itch to coach in the NFL again. If he does, the entire Pac 10 takes a big step back.
You never really hear SEC fans talk bad about the Big 12, Big East or ACC do you? That's because it's not the same team winning it every year. You can be sure that USC and Michigan or Ohio State will be sitting on top of their conference come season end.
from 2 months ago
Just wondering Steve, have you ever even been to Georgia? No wait, actually, i'll take a guess and say no. Georgia is a great state in a great region of the country and anyone who says otherwise has either never been there, or in Na'Derris' case, is lying.
http://kaylawatson.com/images/north_ga5.jpg
I'm glad I don't live there, because that's one cloudy disgusting place, huh Steve? And if Na'Derris Ward's statement about the athletes in Oregon being top notch is true, then why couldn't they win when their only good player last year, Dennis Dixon, got hurt? Give up? It's because Oregon rode on Dennis Dixon's back just like the Pac-10 rides on USC's.
2 months ago
Originally posted by Tim:
Right up front I've got to say I'm a big USC fan, followed by a Pac 10 fan.
Get your facts straight.
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