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Part 2 of this million-part series explaining how the Pac-10 is better than the SEC focuses on the overall strength of schedule...

Pac-10 Football Is Better Than SEC Football: Part Two

by Thomas Brown (Senior Writer)

91

5815 reads

Opinion

July 02, 2008


Part 2 of this million-part series explaining how the Pac-10 is better than the SEC focuses on the overall strength of schedule.

I have heard the sentiment that SEC fans think they don't "need" to play a tough school every week because it will be made up in conference play.  The SEC faithful seem to believe that all the Top 25 teams within their conference will boost their schedules.

They believe that playing in the so-called "Toughest Conference in America" makes up for a weaker non-conference schedule.

As my main man Jordan Coleman so inaccurately states, "So it all equals out.  The SEC plays the best conference schedule in the nation while the Pac-10 plays in a lesser conference with a couple good out-of-conference games.  Actually, it still doesn't equal out."

However, they would be wrong.

Let our first order of business be to look at the cold hard facts rather than base our argument off blind conference pride. 

I think that everyone that follows college football agrees that USA Today's Jeff Sagarin's method of rankings is one of the most accurate we have today.  So let's take a look at Sagarin's final strength of schedule rankings for the 2007 season.

 

SEC (average = 20)

Florida 3

South Carolina 8

Tennessee 9

LSU 11

Ole Miss 13

Vanderbilt 15

Kentucky 17

Georgia 23

Alabama 30

Mississippi State 33

Auburn 35

Arkansas 43

 

Pac-10 (average = 10.7)

UCLA 1

Washington 2

Oregon 5

Arizona 6

California 7

Stanford 10

Washington State 12

Oregon State 16

Arizona State 19

USC 29

 

When you look at objective facts, it is clear who played the tougher schedule: the Pac-10.  It features the first, second, fifth, sixth, seventh, and 10th toughest schedules in the country—six out of the top ten, compared to the SEC's three.

The argument that only playing able in-conference foes makes little sense to me.  If you want to show you're the best, play the best teams.  Don't have the blindness to say that your conference is the best, so to hell with the rest of the schools.

The reason the Pac-10's strength of schedule is so much better than the SEC's is because it is a similar conference (I will concede a bit less talent top-to-bottom than the SEC) that schedules tough non-conference games.  The SEC is a slightly better Pac-10 that schedules virtually nobody non-conference.

On that note, there have been several points made about the SEC scheduling some "tough" non-conference games over the years.  Some examples include:

Arkansas: Texas, USC

Auburn: USC, WVU, USF

LSU: VT

Tennessee: Syracuse, Notre Dame, Miami, Cal, UCLA

 

The problem here is that these games are over A COUPLE OF YEARS.  Plus, I don't see any big time teams from name-brand conferences with the exception of USC, WVU, Cal, and VT.  All the others are struggling schools at this point in time.

We took a look at some of the "big" non-conference games that the SEC scheduled over the last couple of years—now let's take a look at some of the tough games the Pac-10 has scheduled for THIS YEAR.

Washington: Oklahoma, BYU, Notre Dame

Washington State: Oklahoma State, Hawaii

Oregon: Purdue, Boise State

Oregon State: Penn State, Hawaii, Utah

Stanford: TCU, Notre Dame

Cal: Michigan State, Maryland

USC: Virginia, Ohio State, Notre Dame

UCLA: Tennessee, BYU

Arizona State: Georgia

Arizona: None

 

They play all of these games in addition to a rigorous conference schedule.  The Pac-10 shows us that to be the best, you have to play the best.

 

THE LIST IS BUILDING:

2. The Pac 10 plays a better overall schedule.

1. The Pac 10 plays a better non-conference schedule.

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91 comments Last one added 3 months ago — Leave a Comment

  1. Jordan Coleman about 1 year ago

    So you are saying just because the Pac-10 plays a better out of conference schedule than he SEC, it is a better conference over all? This seems to be the arguments you are making in these 2 articles.

    Since the Pac-10 is the best football conference in the nation as said by you because they play a better out of conference schedule, then what does that say about the conference games? It seems that the Pac-10 has to schedule top notch out of conference schedules to make up for the lesser conference play.

    I like reading your stuff, I'm a fan of yours, but in no way is the Pac-10 a better football conference than the SEC.

    BTW, I like the pic for the article.

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    • Michael Inglis about 1 year ago

      I agree with you Jordan. This is a very weak argument. The teams in the SEC play 6 or 7 tough games in conference so that's why they schedule weak out of conference teams. It's pretty logical.

      The Pac 10 isn't as strong as the SEC so to make up for their lack of strength they have to schedule some tough out of conference teams.

      Weak, weak, argument.

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      • Marcus 3 months ago

        how can u say that the conference is better than another conference if they don't play any good teams outside the conference. OU was missing their most explosive offensive player in the championship game this year and that's why they lost to UF... but Utah spanked Bama ass didn't they...

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      • Michael Inglis 3 months ago

        @Marcus:

        You're about 8 months late to this arguement. But look up the SEC bowl record the last few year if you want to see the SEC playing good teams. Also, isn't the SEC 5-0 in BCS Championship games.Stop with the excuses about OU will you. Florida didn't have Percy Harvin against Bama and they still won, that's what good teams do.

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    • Jack Coppinger about 1 year ago

      FUCK YAH

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    • Carlos Castillion 11 months ago

      Looking at Sagarin's year end rankings, it appears that he has either A. lost his mind or B. stated smoking crack. UCLA #1, LSU#11? No more need be said on that. As for schedules, LSU whipped #9 VT, #12 SC, #9 FL in 5 weeks. They fell to # 17 KY in 3 overtimes before defeating #17 Auburn, #17 Alabama, #14 TN and #1 OSU.

      Show me the PAC 10 team with a comparable schedule, 7 out of 13 opponents ranked in the top 20. Les Miles forgot more about football than this auther will ever know, and he said it right.

      "I can tell you this, that they have a much easier road to travel," Miles said. "They're going to play real knockdown drag-outs with UCLA and Washington, Cal-Berkeley, Stanford - some real juggernauts - and they're going to end up, it would be my guess, in some position so if they win a game or two, that they'll end up in the title [game].

      "I would like that path for us. I think the SEC provides much stiffer competition."

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  2. Stephen Williams about 1 year ago

    You have got to be high on something if you really believe the PAC 10 is better than the SEC in football. The PAC 10 has been a top-heavy conference riding the success of USC. Other than them, none of the other schools have consistently competed for a national title year-in and year-out. As oppose to Florida, Georgia, and LSU, who are always in the hunt for the national title. You can play as tough of a schedule as you want, but that doesn't make you a better conference. RESULTS....and not just at the top with USC.

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    • Jordan Coleman about 1 year ago

      Agreed

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    • David Hedlind about 1 year ago

      Wouldn't saying Florida, UGA, and LSU have conssistantly competed.... make the SEC top heavy as well??
      Oregon and Cal have been in contention a number of times over the last couple years.
      the ducks finished #2 in 2001 and should have played for the NC, 10 in 05 and last year were a handful of injuries from the NC again(yes it was more than just Dixon)
      Cal made it to 4 in 04 and 2 last year and has made top 10 appearances 4 years in a row.
      so no it isnt just USC

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    • Stephen Williams about 1 year ago

      The SEC wouldn't be top heavy because falling in behind Florida, Georgia, and LSU are teams like Auburn (13-0 in 2004), Tennessee (98 Champ), Alabama, Arkansas, South Carolina (#6 at one point last year) etc. Those are other programs who have been on the scale nationally in recent years. After USC in the PAC 10 there is a large drop off and then you get Cal and Oregon who have competed every once in awhile (like the group of SEC teams I just mentioned), and then there's nothing else in that conference. Being strong at the top and having great depth is what makes the SEC the top conference in the country.

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    • David Hedlind about 1 year ago

      Nothing else?? Arizona State 10-3 and also got up to #6 at one point. finished ranked 16 in the AP.
      Oregon State 9-4 and ranked 25 and 10-4 the year before. I would take these 2 over the recent Alabama and South Carolina. 7-6 and 6-6 finish not ranked.
      and top to bottom the Pac 10 was the most balanced conference. Washington was last place and had 2 conference wins and not just over the 9 and 8 teams.
      Ole Miss had 0 conference wins. In fact no other conference last place team had more than 1 win.

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    • Thomas Brown about 1 year ago

      Cal was #4 a couple years back too..

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    • Adam Rothlisberger about 1 year ago

      SEC is just as top heavy... other than last year with Kentucky suprising teams and vandy a couple years ago... SEC is top heavy just like very other conference in the nation... and you say Georgia is "always" in the hunt for the title.... uhhh no?.. maybe last year and this year... Florida and LSU are the two teams in the conference "always" in the national title hunt...

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  3. James Doker about 1 year ago

    I don't necessarily agree with the main idea of the article, but I appreciate the analysis. As with all conference-strength arguments, there's some subjectivity necessary since there's not one definitive way to compare them. I'm sure an SEC fan could come up with their own list why their conference is the best.
    I'm not going to argue any of these points because the Pac 10 is obviously very strong.

    --

    My main reason for commenting: HA! You gotta love that article photo.

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  4. Justin Goar about 1 year ago

    LSU played 8 ranked teams last year.

    Eight.

    Use whatever rankings you want, but I'm willing to guess without actually looking it up that no Pac 10 team approached that number last year.

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    • David Hedlind about 1 year ago

      and of those 8 South Carolina, Alabama and kentucky did not finish the season in the top 25.
      Florida lost their bowl to unranked Michigan
      VT lost their bowl too
      so what

      just since you asked Washington played 6 ranked teams 5 were still ranked at the end of the season.

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  5. Tim Pollock about 1 year ago

    For "tough" games scheduled for this year, you listed SEC teams. Umm...doesn't that mean the SEC scheduled those tough games, too?

    Also on the "tough game" list is: Notre Dame (three times!), Hawaii (two times), Oklahoma State, Purdue, Virginia, and Maryland. Those are not tough teams.

    Out of curiosity, have you seen GA's schedule this year? Would you say any Pac-10 team has a schedule that tough?

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    • Thomas Brown about 1 year ago

      USC

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    • Justin Goar about 1 year ago

      if you honestly think USC's schedule this year is in the same zip code with UGA's, then that tells me all i need to know.

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    • Tim Pollock about 1 year ago

      This guy's answer to every question is the same: USC.

      Why don't you just rewrite the titles of these articles to "USC is better than the SEC"? They are your only example for everything.

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    • Thomas Brown about 1 year ago

      You asked me who in the Pac-10's schedule is better, what do you want me to say Stanford?

      And Justin, I do think GA and USC have comparable schedules.

      USC:
      Aug. 30, 2008 at Virginia 12:30 pm PT
      Sept. 13, 2008 Ohio State 5:00 pm PT
      Sept. 25, 2008 at Oregon State 6:00 pm PT
      Oct. 4, 2008 Oregon 5:00 pm PT
      Oct. 11, 2008 Arizona State TBA
      Oct. 18, 2008 at Wash. St. 12:15 pm PT
      Oct. 25, 2008 at Arizona TBA
      Nov. 1, 2008 Washington TBA
      Nov. 8, 2008 California 5:00 pm PT
      Nov. 15, 2008 at Stanford TBA
      Nov. 29, 2008 Notre Dame 5:00 pm PT
      Dec. 6, 2008 at UCLA 1:30 pm PT

      GA:
      Aug. 30, 2008 Georgia So. (PPV) 9:30 am PT
      Sept. 6, 2008 Central Michigan (FSN) 12:30 pm PT
      Sept. 13, 2008 at South Carolina (CBS) 12:30 pm PT
      Sept. 20, 2008 at Arizona State (ABC) 5:00 pm PT
      Sept. 27, 2008 Alabama (ESPN) TBA
      Oct. 11, 2008 Tennessee (CBS) 9:00 pm PT
      Oct. 18, 2008 Vanderbilt TBA
      Oct. 25, 2008 at LSU (CBS) 9:00 pm PT
      Nov. 1, 2008 Florida (CBS) 9:00 pm PT
      Nov. 8, 2008 at Kentucky TBA
      Nov. 15, 2008 at Auburn (CBS) TBA
      Nov. 29, 2008 Georgia Tech (CBS) 9:00 pm PT

      USC plays No. 2 Ohio State, No. 17 Arizona State, No. 20 Virginia. I'm sure one or two Pac-10 teams will jump into the top 25 by season's end. So USC plays about 4 or 5 top 25 teams.

      Georgia plays No.7 LSU, No. 12 Auburn, No. 17 ASU and No. 19 Tennessee. I'm sure one or two other SEC schools will hop into the top 25 as well. So GA plays 5 or 6 top 25 teams.

      I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm just looking at the facts Tim.

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    • Tim Pollock about 1 year ago

      Where is this number 20 ranking from VA coming from?

      Seriously, the schedules don't compare, and any college football fan would say the same.

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    • David Hedlind about 1 year ago

      I would also say Washington has a comparable schedule
      open @ Oregon who will probably be ranked
      BYU and Oklahoma at home both likely top 25 teams
      stanford-should be improved
      @ Arizona- alot of people calling them a dark horse in the Pac 10 either way its a road game
      Oregon State
      Notre Dame- also should be improved
      @USC- do i need to comment
      Arizona State-widely selected #2 in the Pac 10
      UCLA
      @ Washington State- even if they are picked last it is still a road game to your rival
      @ Cal-another team picked to be in the top 3 of the conference

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    • Marcus Eagle about 1 year ago

      I definitely agree with you Tim. I am a UGA fan and this years schedule is deadly. I would give anything to have USC's schedule. Yeah USC plays a couple of hard games but nothing compared to some that UGA has to play. Can any 2 weeks be harder than going to LSU to death valley and then the following week going to Jacksonville to play Florida. If you think so then prove it.

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    • Thomas Brown about 1 year ago

      No, Marcus, I don't. But that's also after you have a two week vacation at the beginning of the season.

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    • Tom 11 months ago

      Not sure what poll this Thomas guy uses, but I place more credibility in the Coaches poll:

      http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/usatpoll.htm

      So looking at the USC and UGA schedules from a preseason rating standpoint, it is pretty hard to argue that the USC schedule is tougher than the UGA schedule. The brutal four game road trip that UGA makes to play LSU, UF, KY and AU is all that needs to be pointed out. It is possible that UGA will have to face 3 Top 10 calliber teams in four weeks on the road, not to mention a road trip to ASU and a home game with TN.

      Why does USC get so much credit for the beatdown that everyone in the country knows is coming to OSU. The beatdowns of the buckeyes the last two years by the SEC and the beatdown of ILL (who beat OSU) by USC in the Rose Bowl shows how week the Big 10 really is.

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  6. Thomas Brown about 1 year ago

    VA ranked 20 coming from:
    http://www.sportprojections.com/group/ncaa_college_football_top_25

    Im not saying theyre the same, im saying its not like you cant even begin to compare them

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  7. Peter Madden about 1 year ago

    The strength of schedule ranking is higher for the PAC-10 teams because their teams are inferior to the teams on their schedule. That is why they are ranked higher.

    So, of course playing teams that are going to be ranked over you is going to inflate your strength of schedule.

    It does not mean your team or conference is any better.

    Just look at Ole Miss in the SEC as an example. They haven't been ranked since Eli Manning was their QB. And they've scheduled Texas Tech, Missouri, Wake Forest and Wyoming who all had some recent unexplained success to pad the Ole Miss out of conference schedule and inflate the strength of schedule ranking...but did nothing for the success of the Rebels.

    This year I think I've seen the Rebel Schedule ranked at 29 for the 2008 season. But when you have Memphis, ULM, Samford and Wake Forest...you can see why it's currently at 29. 29 is pretty high considering that patsy of OOC schedule. It's weighted because they've got to play AUburn, Florida, LSU, Alabama, Miss St and USC-Gamecocks.

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    • Nelson McGough about 1 year ago

      I agree Peter you have to have success with a difficult schedule in order for SOS to mean anything. Western Kentucky could schedule every team in the preseason top 12 and lose every game, doesnt mean they play the best football

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    • Thomas Brown about 1 year ago

      I agree that you have to win your games, but its not like Pac 10 and SEC dont do their fair share of that...

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  8. Nic Gulas about 1 year ago

    First, the Sagarin rankings are a load of crap.

    Second, you are using one guy's OPINION to base your entire argument on. Not exactly the smartest thing to be doing.

    Third, I challenge you to use another team besides the USC Condoms as your team of choice in one of these delusional arguments.

    Fourth, UVA at 20??? Ive got 3 pre-season mags in front of me, and the highest they are rated is 67th, according to Athlon. Lindy's and Phil Steele have them at 71. Im sorry, but they dont count as a top 20 team.

    Now, comparing UGA's sched vs. USC's according to these three mags, here is the results:

    PS: UGA-5 top 25 teams and #26 Alabama. USC-4 top 25 teams and #29 ASU, but common opponent.
    Lindy's: UGA-6 top 25 teams and #27 SC. USC-3 top 25 teams.
    Athlon: UGA-5 top 25 teams and #30 Alabama. USC-3 top 25 teams and #29 UCLA.
    *Opponents in top 30 mentioned as extra opponent.

    Yea, those are comparable alright.

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  9. Will Shelton about 1 year ago

    Alright, let's put them together for a fair comparison:

    PAC-10
    Washington: Oklahoma, BYU, Notre Dame

    Washington State: Oklahoma State, Hawaii

    Oregon: Purdue, Boise State

    Oregon State: Penn State, Hawaii, Utah

    Stanford: TCU, Notre Dame

    Cal: Michigan State, Maryland

    USC: Virginia, Ohio State, Notre Dame

    UCLA: Tennessee, BYU

    Arizona State: Georgia

    Arizona: None

    SEC
    Alabama: Clemson

    Arkansas: Texas

    Auburn: Southern Miss, West Virginia

    Florida: Miami, Hawaii, Florida State

    Georgia: Arizona State, Georgia Tech

    Kentucky: Louisville

    LSU: Appalachian State

    Ole Miss: Wake Forest

    Miss. State: Georgia Tech

    South Carolina: NC State, Clemson

    Tennessee: UCLA

    Vanderbilt: Wake Forest

    I think some of this is apples and oranges - the Pac-10 appears to play a few more games than the SEC on the whole, but more SEC teams are playing truly elite opponents than Pac-10 teams. If you want to take a shot at SEC teams in the non-conference, the stronger argument is that they don't travel - outside of Tennessee (and Georgia for the first time this year), SEC teams typically don't cross the Mississippi (unless you're Arkansas, playing an old traditional rivalry game with Texas), and schedule all their games with ACC/Big East. And SEC teams almost never, ever play Big 10 teams because there are two January 1 bowls that feature that matchup, and neither conference wants to arrange meetings that they might see anyway in January.

    The moral of the story to me is that both conferences, on the whole, schedule tough non-conference games, no matter how you slice it.

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    • Justin Goar about 1 year ago

      will,
      that's a pretty fair and balanced point fo view.
      i'm not as much as a screaming sec homer as some others but to say that pac ten is far and away better than the sec gets to me a little.

      i think you have a pretty objective view on this.

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  10. James Doker about 1 year ago

    I wonder whether having 9 conference games in the Pac 10 contributes to them having consistently high strength of schedule ratings by Sagarin et al.

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  11. john brewer about 1 year ago

    thomas brown , good name. let me tell you a story. it's USC-ARIZONA. in tucson. two years ago. USC is ranked number 1. tucson is 5 hours by car from LA. 30 minutes before the game i went to the ticket office at the little stadium and bought a ticket on the 20 at face value. 10 years ago i was in columbia south carolina for the UGA-SOUTH CAROLINA game. neither team was ranked. it was a night game and was on network tv. there were no tickets. not for 20 dollars not for 100 not for 500. i saw 10000 people get turned away. come and see what the world is reporting. there is no SEC game that is not a big deal. win lose or draw the war is draining for the fans the players and the coaches. it's the conference that gets you. ask saban big 10, miles big 12, richt acc they will tell you. i know a penn state guy named aftan who lives in atlanta. he wouldn't shut up. so i took him to athens to see uga beat down alabama. he couldn't believe it.

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  12. David Hedlind about 1 year ago

    just becuae the stadium is sold out it doesnt mean the game is good look at Nebraska the last couple seasons have been nothing but they still sold out.
    Notre Dame attendance stayed consistant through thier 3-9 season.

    Besides Arizona can hardly be called a football school so i am sure most of their fans were saving their money for basketball tickets.

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    • Nic Gulas about 1 year ago

      You right, doesnt mean the game will be good, although in the SEC you wont win that argument. It does mean the demand is there. It means the money is there. Its means that the athletic departments are rolling in dough and avilable to improve facilities even more than they aready have been. That keeps recruiting at a top notch level, keeping the teams at a top notch level, keeping the conference at that top notch level, meaning each game means something and is a big game, so tickets sell, and now the circle continues.

      Just let us know when the 4th or 5th team in the league starts to draw a crowd near 100,000 fans just inside the stadium.

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  13. bowlbasaur golden bears about 1 year ago

    saragin's SOS is misleading since the pac 10 plays 9 conference games it gets a big boost in his formula...

    another thing is the SEC's OOC could appear weaker since the SEC can't play themselves OOC, and are stuck with the ACC most seasons, and everyone knows the ACC is balls

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  14. r s about 1 year ago

    The toughness of the schedule does not make a team a contender for anything. Troy typically has one of the toughest schedules in the nation. If I remember correctly, they play LSU, ohio state, and Okie State next season. This moron would try to say that Troy compares with his precious teams in the slack 10 if he used the logic he used in this article.

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  15. frank hanlon about 1 year ago

    youre right andy probably because they have OR st, wash st, stanford, zona, wash, in their conference schedule, thats easy enough right there

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  1. Ross Scruggs about 1 year ago

    Yep. And that same THE Ohio State University got crushed by the SEC two years in a row in the NC.

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    • David Hedlind about 1 year ago

      No they got beat by Florida in 07 and LSU in 08 the other teams in the conference had nothing to do with it.

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    • Tim Pollock about 1 year ago

      That goes against everything the author has been saying about the lack of parity in the SEC.

      The Gators lost to Auburn, barely survived against South Carolina, and played a ton of close SEC games. Then they dominated OSU.

      LSU had two conference losses and a ton of close games. Again, they killed OSU.

      Any chance those SEC teams are actually pretty good, or did FL and LSU both just play out of their minds in the NC games?

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    • David Hedlind 12 months ago

      sorry Tim you gus are right. i guess the rest of the SEC should all get championship rings and trophies too.
      I do think their shirts and hats and stuff should say something differnt like "Not the champions, but we are in the SEC so it means the same thing as if we had won it"
      maybe not thats kinda long.

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  2. Ryan Stubbs about 1 year ago

    Say Mr. Brown, how about some facts you might enjoy. I know the "Georgia hasn't played a non-conference game out of the SEC states since '67" stat is getting tossed around, but it really is significant and amazingly ridiculous. So I thought you'd enjoying this.

    Since 1992 (the formation of the Bowl Coalition and when all the independents stopped being independent) these are conference records in non-conference, regular season games played outside of their conferences states. Just look at the sheer amount of games played:

    ACC (All ACC games taken from schools in conference right now) - 88-74 (.543 Win %)
    PAC-10 - 79-83 (.488 Win %)
    SEC - 29-32 (.475 Win %)
    Big Ten - 61-71 (.462 Win %)
    Big 12 - 63-85 (.426 Win %)
    Big East - left out due to inconsistant league, teams and "out of state" criteria.

    Final note, of the SEC's 61 total games over 16 seasons they played outside of the SEC (that averages out to one every 3 seasons per team), 16 of them were played by Vanderbilt (11-5 record). Congrats SEC for permenant home-field advantage to yourselves. You keep chasing that beautiful butterfly.

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    • Thomas Brown about 1 year ago

      Im confused to what your point is

      Is it:
      1.) Pac 10 has a better record than SEC?

      or is it:
      2.) Pac-10 plays more non-conference games out of their territory?

      Because each seem to back up my case retard

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    • Ryan Stubbs 12 months ago

      Well apparently you either need to read better or I need to explain better. I was on your side...retard. The Pac-10 has the best out of region non-conference record in the past 16 seasons. And they play the most games out of their home area. Does that help explain what I was getting at for you? Anything to help put down the SEC is what I'm here for.

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  3. Tim Pollock about 1 year ago

    I'm pretty sure you just called your biggest supporter a "retard." Classy.

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  4. claude bass about 1 year ago

    Boise State? BYU? Notre Dame? Oklahoma st? These are tough out of conference games? I forgot Hawaii.
    I believe GA has played 3 of these in last 2 years and beat all easily.

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  5. Travis Broome about 1 year ago

    Can't believe no one has commented that the only Pac-10 team to play in the National Championship (USC) has the lowest strength of schedule for the whole conference. SEC has the last two national champions and both have double digit leads on USC in strength of schedule. Only agrument you might be able to make is that USC's is tougher than Auburn, but then again Auburn is the only team in either conference to actually own their whole schedule this decade. PAC-10 has USC and then whichever number 2 team is sniffing the top 10 this year and then ............

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  6. Bill Lumberg about 1 year ago

    The list of out of conference teams at the bottom is absurd. You list Hawaii twice, Purdue, Notre Dame, Utah, and TCU as "tough" opponents. They are average at best. Tennessee played Miami when they were in the midst of their record home winning streak, and became the team that ended it. USC, Texas, WVU, and VT are all in the title hunt every year. Just because the Pac-10 plays more out of conference foes does not make them a better conference.

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  7. RJ Mack about 1 year ago

    Outside of USC, no Pac-10 team has CONSISTENTLY been in the top 25 within the last 5 years, nor has anyone else come close to contending for the national title. LSU, Georgia, and Florida have been in the polls for the last 5 years running, and in NC contention the last couple. Cal, Oregon and Arizona State are about the same as 'Bama, Auburn, and Tennessee, appearing in 3 of the five years. Even Arkansas has a couple finishes...Pac-10 can't say that. Throw the schedules out, because those will never mesh. Bowl games too, because those are one-off deals. Regular season performance and poll consistency. For the last 5 years, both are with the SEC.

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  8. Paul Augustin, Jr. about 1 year ago

    If you want to use non-conference scheduling as your argument, why not use the bowl schedule? Teams are supposed to be better at the end of the season than at the beginning anyways.

    Here is a list of each league's bowl records,, including how each fared in BCS games for the last 10 years (BCS era).

    1998-99 PAC-10 1-4, SEC 4-4 - PAC-10 loses it's only BCS game, Florida and TN 2-0

    1999-00 PAC-10 1-4, SEC 4-4 - neither league won a BCS game

    2000-01 PAC-10 3-2, SEC 4-5 - Ore. and Wash. 2-0 in BCS, SEC 0-1

    2001-02 PAC-10 2-3, SEC 5-3 - Ore won, LSU and Fla 2-0

    2002-03 PAC-10 2-5, SEC 3-4 - PAC-10 1-1 in BCS (USC won), SEC 1-0 (UGA)

    2003-04 PAC-10 4-2, SEC 5-2 - USC and LSU win league's only BCS games

    2004-05 PAC-10 3-2, SEC 3-3 - USC and Auburn win league's only BCS games

    2005-06 PAC-10 3-2, SEC 3-3 - neither league won a BCS game

    2006-07 PAC-10 3-4, SEC 6-3 - USC won, Florida and LSU won

    2007-08 PAC-10 4-2, SEC 7-2 - USC won, Georgia and LSU won

    Conclusions:

    10-year overall records: PAC-10 26-30 (8 BCS wins); SEC 44-33 (11 BCS wins)

    USC 4-1 in BCS; LSU 4-0

    PAC-10 has one team with multiple BCS wins; The SEC has three (LSU, Florida and Georgia).

    The PAC-10 has 56 bowl appearances in 10 years; The SEC has 77.

    The PAC-10 has a .464 winning percentage; The SEC has .571 winning percentage.

    As a side note, I would also conclude by saying that Oklahoma should never ever be in a BCS game again.

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    • David Hedlind about 1 year ago

      also of not the SEC has 12 teams to the Pac 10's 10 teams meaning they are able to have more bowls. last season the SEC had 8 ties to the Pac 10's 6. This year it is 9 to 7.
      the stat about 56 to 77 appearances over the last 10 years say we minus 20 so that it were an even number of bowls and it would be 56 to 57.

      its like saying My omelet with my 12 eggs is bigger than your omelet with your 10.

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    • Paul Augustin, Jr. about 1 year ago

      david, you make a point about the number of teams in each conference, but you ignore the bowl winning percentage and the number of BCS bowl wins.

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    • David Hedlind about 1 year ago

      I didnt ignore them those points are valid. the one i pointed out is the only one you made that i didnt agree with.

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  9. Donald Irving about 1 year ago

    To add to Paul's brilliant comments, I would also like to point out in the BCS era that the SEC has four national championships; the PAC-10, one.

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  10. Paul Augustin, Jr. about 1 year ago

    excuse me if our 12-team conference has a higher bowl winning percentage than the PAC -10 70% of the time and can count on more than one team to win its BCS games. I'm sorry that when our teams win in the BCS, it's not against teams that didn't even win their own league and are only in the game because of league tie-ins (Michigan and Illinois in consecutive years in the Rose). I'm sorry that when you do play a BCS game against a team that won its league, Vince Young runs through and ruins your parade. How about the fact that our 2nd place team has won a BCS game four times and yours has only won once?

    hey omelet boy, I hope you don't use your simile to make your case against other conferences. Otherwise the Big Least (8 teams), Mountain West (9), Sun Belt (8) and the WAC (9) could all use that simile against you.

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    • David Hedlind about 1 year ago

      You just went against your own post. in 2000 Washington won the rose bowl against Purdue who was a Big 10 champion also in that same year Oregon State won the Fiesta. (which you noted as ore.)
      in 2001 Oregon beat Colorado who was the Big XII champs.
      in 2002 USC beat Big 10 champ Iowa in the Orange bowl. USC was he #2 team in the Pac 10.

      I also realized that this article is about the scheduling which is controlled by the schools. the Bowl opponents are not. so the arguement doesnt really work in this particular situation anyway

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    • Paul Augustin, Jr. about 1 year ago

      Iowa did not win the Big Eleven in 2002; undefeated Ohio State won that conference and the national title. Congrats to Washington in beating a purdue team that finished 8-4 and ended the season tied for the second best record in the Big Eleven.

      I will concede that, besides USC, I would hate to play Oregon every year. They are hands-down the second best PAC-10 team in the past 10 years. They got screwed in 2001 just like Auburn got screwed in 2004 (The output put forth by Nebraska and Oklahoma in the national title games proved as much).

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    • Paul Augustin, Jr. about 1 year ago

      Oh, and while 2001 Colorado may be listed as Big 12 champs by a bowl schedule, they weren't. They didn't even win their division. Nebraska won the Big 12 (XII, sorry). They played in the national title game. Don't PAC-10 and Oregon fans remember this?

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    • David Hedlind about 1 year ago

      2002 Iowa and Ohio State were co champs of the big 10 with 8-0 records. they didnt play eachother. Ohio State was 13-0 overall while Iowa was 11-1.

      in 2000 Michigan, Northwestern and Purdue were all 6-2 in conference. triple co champs

      Colorado did win the big 12 in 01. Colorado beat Nebraska 62-36. Colorado then went on t beat Oklahoma in the Big 12 conference Championship game 39-37. Nebraska did not win, did not play for their conference title. But somehow made it in over Oregon who was #2 in the polls. yeah i remember

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    • Paul Augustin, Jr. about 1 year ago

      David, I stand corrected about Nebraska and Colorado. I looked at the wrong year for Big 12 standings. I knew oregon was #2 and that Nebraska jumped over them and there was a lot of arguing. I forgot about Colorado's role.

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  11. Scott McDaniel about 1 year ago

    If you compare all the teams in each conference, top to bottom, the SEC is a stronger conference. The SEC is 4-0 when their team reaches the BCS championship game. The SEC plays better on a bigger stage(the BCS)...When the games count the most Florida, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Tennessee performed well in the BCS to win their games, while the Pac-10 only had Oregon, USC and Washington.

    You make a half way valid point when you say that the Pac-10 plays a tough non-conference schedule, but how does that automatically make the Pac-10 superior to the SEC? That great non-conference schedule of the Pac-10 may make them braver, or more willing to put their season on the line by playing a tough non-conference schedule, but not better.

    The best way your argument will be supported is to see what happens this upcoming season in the Pac-10 vs SEC head to head games, in the non conference match-ups, and in the bowl season.

    UCLA: Tennessee --> I see Tennessee walking away victorious in this one.

    Arizona State: Georgia---> Obviously Georgia is the more dominant team upfront. Not to mention Georgia's offensive backfield.

    Anther problem and probably the biggest one is that all of your arguments are based on using PRESEASON POLLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Preseason polls are worthless and don't mean *hit! Again your article should have waited until the end of the season so that you have some QUANTITATIVE data to back up your argument. Preseason polls are projections, guesses.

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  12. Scott McDaniel about 1 year ago

    But at least polls after the season start have some sort of results to base them on.....polls released during the season are more accurate than preseason polls..period....i don't care what you say...opinions they may be...but at least there is data that can some what back up regular season polls.

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  13. bobby magee about 1 year ago

    Georgia finds it funny that you mentioned Hawaii as a tough OOC game this year. Especially when the just graduated their best player in school history, and lost their coach.

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  14. Scott McDaniel about 1 year ago

    I guess Hawaii will forget about their 41-10 thrashing by Georgia last year.......haha

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  15. jim burt about 1 year ago

    For either PAC 10, Big Ten, ACC, or SEC fans, or any other conference for that matter, you don't hear this mentioned very often, if at all, but talent consolidation and distribution plays a big role geographically in determining where the strongest teams are. Here's an example. In the south east, the deep talent base is widely acknowledged; however, there are about 10 top echelon teams where that talent disperses to every year, based largely on promises of playing time: Florida, Miami, LSU, Florida State, Auburn, Alabama, Tennessee, and Georgia. South Carolina, Arkansas, Virginia Tech, and Texas draw from the southeast pool as well. Thus, while there is a lot of talent in the southeast, it's widely distributed on the 100-person rosters of say 14 or more teams.

    By comparison, in the west, there is really only one true top echelon program: USC. If you talk to any talent recruiter in the west right now, and for the last seven years, there's only one place all the kids talk about - USC. Obviously, Oregon, Cal, UCLA, and Arizona State beg to differ, but they are arguably a grade below from a talent standpoint. That's why USC is at or near the top of the recruiting lists every year - they aren't competing for talent with 10 other top teams, like Florida, LSU, and Georgia have to. USC even cherry picks from the southeast, too. The west, while maybe not having the same deep talent pool as the southeast, has tons of talent. California alone is like a major country unto itself.

    What that means is that when USC is properly consolidating the top talent in its jurisdiction, no one, including anyone in the SEC, can touch it. It would be different if LSU, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Alabama or any one of those top programs were consolidating southeast talent. Then it would be a whole different story. But they don't because there are too many competitors for the talent locally, which means they are usually good, but they get beaten regularly by many high quality (but not otherwordly) teams.

    Did you see USC destroy Arkansas two years in a row by 30+ points? Well, that same Arkansas team won the SEC west.

    That's why when USC has a strong year, it crushes everyone, including the SEC teams. It'll be fun to watch USC finally - finally! - get its hands on one of the noisier SEC or ACC teams and finally dispel the myth that the SEC can compete.

    It's a simple (and unassailable) talent consolidation and distribution premise.

    Enjoy!

    Go Trojans!

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  1. Fletcher White about 1 year ago

    I 'm assuming when you title an article "Why ___________ football is better that ___________ football" that you are speaking in a historical context, not just one given year. With that premise established, there have been 7 SEC teams that have won a version of the National Championship. How many Pac 10 teams have won one? I can remember Washington in about 1990 or so, and of course USC has several. Only the Big 11 even approaches the SEC in this regard, and in the last 40 years only tOSU, Penn St, and Meehigan have been a factor. Of the last 15 national championships,the SEC owns 6, or 40%, with 4 different teams having won it. The Pac 10 has only had 2 national champions in it's entire history.

    As an aside, if the discussion is only about this year or the last couple of years, how in the world can anyone point to ND as tough OOC opponent? What an absolute joke.

    Historically, the Pac 10 can't carry the SEC's jock.

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    • Thomas Brown about 1 year ago

      Yea, way to make up a false premise so you can make your argument. Great point, Fletcher.

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    • David Hedlind 12 months ago

      Have won a version of a National Championship?? If thats what counts then here you go.

      Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Washington, Arizona State all have some version of a National championship too. thats 6 of 10 60% of the conference. 7 of 12 is only 58%

      maybe a little more research before posting next time.

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  2. Michael Inglis about 1 year ago

    Just going back to last season, the Pac 10 wasn't even the second best conference in the country, the Big 12 was. They sent 2 teams to a BCS Bowl and even Missouri might have deserved a shot. Texas also won 10 games and destroyed ASU in their bowl game.

    The Pac 10 only sent USC to the Rose Bowl and other than that ASU was the only other 10 win team.

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  3. brian wilson about 1 year ago

    Hey Jim -

    The same year SC destroyed Arkansas, LSU played Arizona. Here are the results to all those games:

    USC 20 : Arizona 3 = 17
    USC 50 : Arkansas 14 = 36
    Total Margin : 53 (17 + 36)

    LSU 45 : Arizona 3 = 42
    LSU 31 : Arkansas 26 = 5
    Total Margin: 47 (42 + 5)

    So congratulations, "dominant" USC was 6 points better LSU in 2006! Nevermind the fact that we haven't had any top talent match-ups between the conferences lately, so there's no way either side could claim to be better.

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  4. Jeremy about 1 year ago

    Your facts make sense, but it does not prove that the Pac-10 is overall better then the SEC. We know USC would roll in the Pac-10 and Oregon would traditionally be in a divison title race. People would like the SEC to at least play SOMEONE with a pulse in non conference scheduling. Playing the Citadel, FIU, La. Tech, and Georgia Southern do not do it for anyone. Now they do not have to schedule USC, Texas, Va. Tech, Michigan, Clemson or you insert solid BCS team each year. If they were to play at least a team from a BCS conference that is decent would be ok with maybe one low level game like a Sun Belt or a low C-USA team.

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  5. Michael Inglis about 1 year ago

    20-3 is not killing someone, now 45-3 is killing someone.

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  6. randy anderson 12 months ago

    Once again, all these numbers are meaningless. Since Florida and LSU have both stomped "the OSU" two years in a row. But they keep picking OSU to win it all. Hilarious. Oh, BTW, the PAC-10 is still better than the SEC...hahahaha! They never learn. SEC rocks all the way.

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  7. russ autin 12 months ago

    what really pisses others off about sec 's domination is the talent level from the south .football is a way of life down here .if teams like lsu uga just recrute local talent ,people from their own back yard they can compete.look at the nfl, for example qb's, how many are from down here as compared to other areas. any one who watched the bcs championship game and still thinks that was the best two teams ,well theirs no hope for you .lsu was lucky uga didn.t make it to the sec championship game .that's how good the sec is,its top 3 teams could beat any one

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  8. Michael Inglis 12 months ago

    Thomas you're not making a good point. LSU killed Arizona, while USC didn't. Then USC killed Arkansas while LSU didn't. It all evens out so you can't say which conference is better based on those four games.

    Besides Randy makes a good point. Those games have no bearing on who is actually better. THe SEC is 4-0 in BCS Title games while the Pac 10 is 1-1.

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  9. T A 12 months ago

    So let me get this straight:

    The SEC gets no credit for playing Notre Dame, Texas, UCLA (a PAC-10 school I might add) or South Florida, but the PAC-10 gets props for playing Notre Dame, Hawaii, BYU, Oklahoma State, Purdue, Boise State, Utah, TCU, Maryland, etc. Dumbest argument ever. Everyone knows that the SEC is far superior to the PAC-10, including Sagarin's rankings, or as you put it "one of the most accurate [ranking's] we have today." You cite to someone who actually disproves your point. So now we know that not only is the PAC-10 a weak football conference, but academically, it suffers as well!

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  10. T A 12 months ago

    So let me get this straight: The SEC gets no credit for playing Notre Dame, Texas, UCLA (a PAC-10 school I might add) or South Florida, but the PAC-10 gets props for playing Notre Dame, Hawaii, BYU, Oklahoma State, Purdue, Boise State, Utah, TCU, Maryland, etc. Dumbest argument ever. Everyone knows that the SEC is far superior to the PAC-10, including Sagarin's rankings, or as you put it "one of the most accurate [ranking's] we have today." You cite to someone who actually disproves your point. So now we know that not only is the PAC-10 a weak football conference, but academically, it suffers as well!

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    • Thomas Brown 11 months ago

      yea, they do get props and you conviently forgot to mention Ohio State, Penn State, Virginia, Tennessee, and Georgia....oops!

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    • Joe Rodriguez 7 months ago

      Dude, you have got to be the biggest idiot to ever walk this planet. If you want to talk about academics between SEC schools and PAC-10 schools there is absolutely no comparison! 2009, PAC-10 had 3 universities in the top 25 (Stanford [4], Berkeley [21], and UCLA [25]). and 4 in the top 30 (the aforementioned schools plus USC [27]). SEC a grand total of 1 (Vanderbilt [16]). No wonder you are an SEC fan, you must have been admitted to one of those schools because you have no brains. Btw, the PAC-10 owns the SEC, head to head, by a record of 10-7. There goes your argument moron.

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  11. Hank Michael 4 months ago

    By Mike Colin Cowherd sez it best. The SEC is the best because they care so much. Two look at the latest recruiting rankings and see where the best players are going. Look I could think of a hundred reasons why The SEC is where it is but I will not waste my time. You can take stats and skew them to prove anything you want but the fact in life is follow the talent.

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  12. Hank Michael 4 months ago

    Point #1 read the board they are coming out of the woodwork to disprove you. See we do really care and point #2 only in the SEC can you finish in the top 15 in the recruiting rankings but you are looking up and seeing you are only 7th or 8th in your own conference. Go figure.

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