Oakland Fans: This Is Raider Hating at It's Lowest Right Here

Bret ArmstrongAnalyst IJuly 31, 2009

DENVER - NOVEMBER 23:  A member of Raider Nation shows his support of the Oakland Raiders as they faced the Denver Broncos during week 12 NFL action at Invesco Field at Mile High on November 23, 2008 in Denver, Colorado. The Raiders defeated the Broncos 31-10.  (Photo by Doug Pensinger/Getty Images)

I recently posted an article called "10 things I Know Will Happen This Year."

Almost everybody who commented said it was full of respectable predictions. Everyone except for this guy who has been going around B/R fairly mindlessly leaving negative comments on everyone's pages.

I have had extensive relations with this mystery man. His name is Stan Lechler, but I highly doubt he is any relation to Shane, because he is a mixed up Raider Hater. I call him a mystery because he has no articles posted and has no bio information. He has got to be a Chiefs, Chargers, or Broncos fan who is jealous.

Anyhow, I am going to post the enitre conversation that myself, Brent, and Randy have been having with this most interesting specimen. Brace yourself, because this could get ugly.

If you haven't read the article, I will fill you in a little. It is a countdown from ten to one. It has ten different predictions that I truely believe will play themselves out this year. I reffered to them as "as good as gold."

Stan's first post was exactly this:

"Are you sure you follow the Raiders, author?

I believe history has a way of repeating itself, especially when it’s a time proven, no doubt about it, history.

I think you missed the mark in more than a few areas.

10 Al will let Cable coach”?? Al never lets anyone coach. EVER. So why is now different? Because you want it to be? Doesn’t work that way. History says Cable will have the same freedom’s that other coaches had, which is zero.

9. “Guarantee they will show moxy and be competitive”??? Uh, isn’t the truth of the matter that you honestly can’t guarantee anything? Didn’t you feel the same way in prior years? Why is this different? It’s not. It’s preseason. Just means everyone is entitled to dream. Yes, even you.

8. “Russell won’t lose his job” “Russell will be vastly improved.” Again, why? He hasn’t shown a SINGLE THING that says this will happen. For that matter, all that anyone knows is that he stunk it up in mini-camp. I mean completely stunk it up.

7. “3 of the best hb’s in the league”?? And you would be dead wrong. None of them are even close to breaking the top ten, and you think all 3 are “of the best’?? Again, you have zero facts on any of your comments. All dreams. Dreams are just that..nothing more.

6. Chaz? Lol. Oh, ok. Sure, because you say so. Yeah, he’ll be doubled teamed because he just set the league on fire last year, right? Again, for fun, try and offer up something that has some basis to your “dreams”.

5. Ahhh…for many who state “ESPN is BSPN” you counter that with “We’ll make their “top 10 plays”?? Guess you buy into all that. Well, heck. Let me state again, you’re dreamin’. You’ll make it twice, just because the sun has to shine on that pooch’s rear on occasion, which is a rule.

4. You might win two, if the other teams are flat. You now play in arguably the weakest division in all of football. Collectively KC, Den and Oak are about as worrisome as a flea.

3. “Raiders will finish in top 10 in defense”??? Yes, you are a funny guy. Total defense you’ll be around 22 to 25. Rushing defense? You won’t get out of the 30’s.

2. No, Kiper won’t eat his words. Mitchell was on NO ONE’S list because he’s a nobody. Everyone laughed when you signed him. Everyone will laugh at you believing that JUST BECAUSE YOU PICKED HIM, he’s going to now be a stud. Even his own school didn't list him..but hey, because YOU say so, he'll turn heads *rolling eyes*

Dreaming. Offseason Dreaming.. Nothing more.

And dude, you need to put down the Kool Ade. You state Raiders won’t have double digit losses? Won’t be in top 10 of draft? Raiders have done little to fill all those porous holes all offseason. You sign discarded players and now think they are the answer? You state players who did nothing last year are now going to dominate?

And add “It’s good as gold”??

I think you’re in for a rude awakening.

I suspect you already know that."

At first I was a bit taken aback. I didn't understand why Stan felt like he had to post a comment longer than my article to potray his feelings. It perplexed me.

This was my response:

"History is called the past for a reason. Don't write your articles on my pages. You write your own articles douche."

Stan was obviously offended that the author took offense and wrote:

"Don’t write my articles on your page? Huh? I replied to what you wrote. I just happened to make more sense.

And for some odd reason, you had zero in reply.

Probably wise to avoid discussing something you obviously know little about."

Randy then chimed in and came to my defense(Thanks Randy). He stated:

"Idiot who hides and who really put words down,but still says nothing.Fill out a bio punk and quit hiding what your really about.LOSER"

At that point I said:

"Thanks for taking my back dude."

Stan really got his panties in a bunch then, and had this fine pearl of wisdom:

"Ah, the tough guy bit. Way to go, Randy. Kind of neat being 12, isn’t it?

As far as 'hides' and 'fill out a bio, punk'? lol.

Uh, Randi? I glanced at yours. You said NOTHING. Stated where you DIDN’T live. Stated you like the Raiders, and THAT’S IT. Zero..nada..zip.

You’re confused on what the word 'bio' means, aren’t you?

Kind of curious about something, Randi.

I see you had nothing in reply regarding Al, or Russell, or the Raiders, period.

Way to step it up and engage.

What you meant to say is 'I get so flustered when someone points out all the problems on the Raiders, especially when I have nothing to say in reply.'
Don't worry about it..I just said it for you.'

Did I mention how good of a guy Stan is. Just a blessing to have here on B/R. He even followed up his own comment with this gem:

"'having your back'??? LMAO.
Guy blubbered about being confused on what a bio was, adding he had nothing about my comments, so glanced at my bio, hoping he could insult something there.

Oh wait.

You also had ZERO to say about my detailed shredding of your take.
Well then. You two should get along just fine.
Yep, lol, he's 'got your back'"

At this point I probably should've just let it go. In the heat of the moment, I felt I had to defend myself. Live and learn right?

Randy followed up Stan's comments like this:

"If you want to know something just ask(which clearly stated on my bio).At least you know who i back, unlike you who hides who his team really is (Most likely from embarrassment) so we can have at least a mature argument. It seems I have hit a nerve with you by the way you state your comments, do everyone a favor and fill out at least something as to who you back, then we can have a real argument like adults. Until then, don't state comments about teams you don't know anything about or follow because it seems you get all your info from espn and all the other haters"

This is the point where Brent came to my defense. He said the following:

"Why did you even respond there, 'Stan.'?

Your reply is B.S. infested. Two teams came out of the closet (Bears, Ravens) to admit coveting Mitchell. We could start there, but it would take too long to correct your BS.

To quote another member, 'You sir, are a crackhead.'

Come after Bret all you want for this article, it's a free country, but please bring facts so you can start a dialogue, not another cliched Hater Rant."

Stan really enjoyed being knocked around by three different Raiders fans. It was as if he was enjoying every minute. He had this to say to Brent:

"Bring facts? I broke down EACH COMMENT MADE..and still, on my profile page, the author complained that my comment was longer than his, which obviously has him all in a tiff.

Oh, that’s right. You stated 'Would take too long to correct me'??

In other words, you can’t.

Yeah, no kidding.

And sorry, but what I stated was exactly the truth. Even Mitchell’s OWN SCHOOL didn’t have any info on him. He showed up on NO ONE’S list.

Because he did nothing. And wasn’t even considered for the draft. Wasn’t even invited to the combine. And here you think he’s going to be awesome? Just because you drafted him?

Bad news is that you would find it difficult to find many teams that have drafted as bad as the Raiders have in the last 15 years."

Brent kept it simple. He wasn't trying to offend, just defend his team which is completely respectable:

"You really have to admit that you didn't really dispute Bret in that article or counter with facts. All your comments are 'you're dreaming' etc.
OTA's mean nothing and Russell finished strong. This is widely reported in the Bay area press. Yet you say JR 'stunk' the whole time.
That makes you full of (explitive).
You didn't respond to my refutation of your Mitchell nonsense, either.
Dude you just spout BS.
It's not worth refuting the other 8 points"

Stan obviously follows the Raiders quite closely, he is like an inside guy...like Warren Sapp:

"Mitchell was on ZERO SCOUTING REPORTS. T or F?
Mitchell wasn't even in his OWN SCHOOLS report..T or F?
Mitchell wasn't even invited to the combine..T or F?

Couple teams stated 'oh yeah, we looked at him' and you think that offsets Al making that choice? Doesn't. Was a bad choice, and you know it.

Just like Bey was.

And save the 'Russell finished strong'. He sucked, and no where did it say he 'finished strong'. If anything Cable ran the politically correct 'Needs a lot of work, but looked better'...what's he to say? 'I'm worried'?

Cable? AGAIN, Al doesn't let anyone coach, and won't let Cable either.
Guess you missed that part.

3 of the best rb's? Again, total garbage.

Chaz will be 'double-teamed'?

Raiders will finish in top 10 in defense? Again, IMPOSSIBLE.
Guess you missed that as well.
Save the "not worth refuting".
What you mean is 'I CAN'T refute it'.
If you could, you sure as hell would."

But Brent is a true fan, and refuses to lose an arguement with such a hater:

"Yeah, you SAID Al doesn't let a coach coach. You said it, see. That's all you said. You didn't offer evidence or fact.

You said it's untrue we have 3 great running backs. Again, you SAID it. You sure didn't refute anything or come with another POV.

You think too highly of your own opinion--and that's OK maybe we all do--but all you are offering is opinion based on feelings. Not facts. We source info at this Raiders page. You call me on Russell but we've hashed out the Bay area press reports about Russell finishing the OTA's strong. RIght now I just don't feel like placing value on my time to dig them up and show them to you. Call it what you want"

Randy then chimed in and gave ten explainations for the original ten predictions:

"10.Al has let Cable coach,call the plays,and bring in who he also wants (Barnes,samson,bey,etc...).he did all the scouting at the combine and draft
9.They will be competitive by being a young team w/ experienced coaches and bringing key vets.
8.Russell has shown a good first step in holding is own mini camp w/ wr's,but not showing on 1st day IS a let down.That's not to say he lost his job yet.
7.Yeah 3 best in the league and this is the year that it will all be proven now we will have more of a passing attack
6.Speed kills and between Higgins,schilinez,and dhb who will keep up when all 3 is on the field?NO ONE!
5.We(The Raiders)will make plenty of highlight reels>Higgins Excellent return specialists(as if everyone didn't know that already>Miller>Great TE who will make the pro bowl this year>DMAC>who will keep D's honest and will be an excellent screen pass option.I could keep going,but y bother
4.Yes,we play in a weak didvision,but that's not saying the games will ever be easy
3.Our D has instantly improved w/ the departure of Rob Ryan.The prevent D is y we lost many 4 quarter games,enough said.
2.Many times Kiper says this guy is a bust,this guy will make it,BS and he is wrong MOST of the time.ESPN IS bias on the Raiders and i will be keeping in contact will STAN so you also can eat you words.
1.I suspect you are a niners fan just hating on our Raiders.Crabtree will hold out and your coach will pull down his pants hoping you will put your head up his behind so you can kiss it.If you think the niners are going anywhere,you greatly mistaken."

At this point, Stan felt like he had to write another "article/comment":

"10. WHAT?? Al hasn't done any of what you stated. Al brings in who HE WANTS. Hell, Cable didn't even hire his own assts..AL DID.
And Cable did NOT do all the scouting at the combine and the draft..LOL..what do you think the scouts jobs are?
Good job, Cable *thumbs up*
9. No, being a young team, with coaching, and vets means squat. LAST year you had a "young team" with "coaches" with TONS of vets. I rest my case.
8. Russell had a failed "secret practice" which was in direct response to comments about him "needing to do something". No, he hasn't lost his job, but how can anyone state "this is his year"? He's on the fence as far as keeping his job, much less exceeding at it.
7. 3 best rb's in the league? Fargas was 24th. Wasn't McFadden 43rd or so? Bush around 50th? lol..how does that equate to '3 BEST RB'S IN THE LEAGUE"?
And that passing game? Uh..what? to who? blocked by who? Your O line isn't even set. Iffy LT, center, RG, and your RT is a project.
6. Speed kills? Yeah, if you're driving. Higgins? The guy who had all of 22 CATCHES LAST YEAR? that guy? Oh yeah, scary. Was 87th in the league.
Bey? hasn't shown he can EVEN CATCH a ball, has he?
5. Doesn't everyone get on the highlight films on occasion?
But McFadden? did he play up to expectations last year? Did Russell? DID ANYONE besides Miller and Aso?
3. Rob Ryan leaving now makes you better? lol..oh...ok. So, you're saying Al is a fool for keeping him? In OTHER WORDS, KIFFIN WAS 100% CORRECT IN WANTING TO FIRE HIM?
He was..and yes, Al blew it.
1. I don't think I'll be eating my words regarding Mitchell..I do, however, believe excuses will be flying from Raider fans on why he had a bad year.
Same excuses on why McFadden, and Russell, and Walker, etc etc had a bad year."

Alas, I then felt the need to backup my original ten predictions with factual reasoning. Perhaps I could quiet this uninformed airhead:

"10) Al let Gruden coach, Al let Madden coach, Al let Tom Flores coach, and all three of these coach's created super bowl and championship caliber teams. Know what you are saying? No I don't think that you do.

9) This year is different because in previous years the raw talent was not there. Nor was the leadership of veteran players and coaches. And in previous years they didn't finish the year winning two straight by beating a red hot Houston team who won 5 out of their last 6 with one loss to Oakland. They didn't beat a team like Tampa who was in a win and your in situation at home across the country from Oakland.

8) In JMR's last 3 games he threw 6 TD's out his season's 13, and only 2 INT's. Garcia was just as shaky in mini camp, and Russell has a lazer attached to his shoulder unlike your favorite teams QB.

7) Maybe you have a little bit of a point here...I should've said three of the most talented...ahhh technicalities

6) Chaz who is 6'4 225 lbs, has a standing verticle of 43", and runs a 4.38 40 yard dash...yeah that guy.

5) 5 times(on sportscenter's top ten plays)...at least!

4) We could win up to five. The best team in the division won 8 last year, and has Norv Turner as a head coach. I can garantee both games against the Chiefs for sure, there is your two. Don't be a BS artist.

3) I said top 15. Read it again. Marshall is a great coach. Look up his resume. Nuff Said.

2) Most schools remove their former players after they graduate. Get a clue. You both will eat your words.

1) I'm not even gonna say anything about this one. There is no point. I just ruined all your credibility anyway. Try again next time you double digit loser. You can't beat me dude. You need to stop with the Kool Ade.

This here is Raider Country. Don't Hate cause your Fake.

And that's good as gold.

I think you’re in for a rude awakening.

I suspect you already know that."

Brent decided to take a backseat at this point. It was obvious we were getting nowhere fast with this future BSPN columnist:

"I didn't even think he shredded /rebutted you the first time. Just caustic attitude and sarcasm and no facts, unless we're talking opinions. ESPN could've wrote his script 'cause I have heard the same identical spin on things over and over. It's not worth it."

This was Stan's post to my defense of the original ten. He is trying to get us worked up at the end of his comment here by calling us "ladies":

"Since Flores, Al has not let a single HC do his job. You know that. Why do you think the Raiders HC job is the most undesireable job in the NFL? Why is it candidate after candidate informs the Raiders to not even draw up a contract. BECAUSE AL WON'T LET THEM DO THEIR JOB.
9. TB had lost 4 in a row. Houston's defense was in total shambles. Yes, you won. Others would state "they lost it". Don't confuse those games with a major accomplishment.
8. Didn't Bush bail Russell out? Wasn't it Bush's yards that offset Russell's shaky playing for the Houston game?
Raiders won in spite of Russell. Yes, not bad stats..(dumping off does that to you..see Jeff Garcia for a qb that perfected that)
6. Chaz is good, but honestly..double teamed? Really? Only a handful of WR's are double teamed, and you think he's in that calibre? Little early to hope for that, isn't it?
5. 5 times..at least? lol...ok..sure..why not?
4. Guarantee 2 against Chiefs? Their qb is already better than yours. You still have a bad O line. A bad rushing D. How can you guarantee anything, to be honest?
Seriously, you aren't worried about your O line and D line?
3. Top 15 in total defense? HOW DO YOU FIGURE? Your D line was the worst in the NFL or almost, and you did nothing to improve it. Makes no sense. Try again.
and #1..you HOPE they don't have double digit losses, or draft high.

Hope doesn't make it fact.

Admit it..most of your thread is HOPE, with very little basis or fact..Yep..DREAMING.

As far as "rude awakening"?? lol..isn't that week one for most Raider fans?

Start the excuses, ladies."

Here are some quotes of Stan's that I refuted unsuccessfully:

"'Al brings in who HE WANTS. Hell, Cable didn't even hire his own assts..AL DID.
And Cable did NOT do all the scouting at the combine and the draft..LOL..what do you think the scouts jobs are?"

This whole thing is completely false. Al had Tom Cable and Kevin Gilbride, the Giants O coordinator on his radar. He told both of them to go out and hire a staff, and he would decide based on who they were able to bring to the organization. Tom won. Granted there are some holdovers from the old staff, but both Coordinators, and several assistant coaches are "Cables guys."

As far as the scouting, Cable coached the college senior bowl, and was at the Indy Combine, and attended several college teams' workouts. He also sent some of "his staff" out to do some scouting. He can't do it all, but he did a lot, give him some credit douche.

"Higgins? The guy who had all of 22 CATCHES LAST YEAR?"

13 catches for 174 yards in the last three games that he started, and 3 TD's

"TB had lost 4 in a row."

First of all, it was only three losses before Oakland. Secondly, it was against Carolina, Atlanta, and the "Super" Chargers. But that last one is really painful because it was against Oakland at home to get into the playoffs. C'mon Man!

"Didn't Bush bail Russell out? Wasn't it Bush's yards that offset Russell's shaky playing for the Houston game?
Raiders won in spite of Russell. Yes, not bad stats..(dumping off does that to you..see Jeff Garcia for a qb that perfected that)"

First of all, Bush's yards were vs. Tampa Bay. Secondly, Russell was great in that game, he completed 66.7% of had 2 TD's to his 1 INT. If you wanna go the Houston route with this, he was even better in that game, completing 72% of his passes with 2 TD's and 0 INT's.

"Only a handful of WR's are double teamed"

Ya, when they are playing against Nnamdi Asomugha!

"Their qb is already better than yours. You still have a bad O line. A bad rushing D."

This is a total joke. Their QB was on a better team last year is all. Have you seen KC lines???

"most of your thread is HOPE, with very little basis or fact"

This statement is true if you are looking in the mirror. But you just go ahead and

"Start the excuses"

Damn dude, you need to just quit now. I just manhandled you again. Come at me with something substaintial next time ya bum."

Stan felt it imparitive that he come out with this in response:

"Is there anything more whiney and weaker than someone staying in the shadows, watching, while saying nothing, hoping someone will ignore a poster who just enlightened you? Who then says 'Oh dude, ignore him"?

In other words, you realize it best you shut up?
And hope others doing it will make you look less weak?

Does that work? lol..Or do your friends just roll their eyes, where you ask "What? Wasn't that a good reply'?

They're laughing for a reason.

figure out why"

I don't know who this "we" or the "they" he keeps reffering to is. I just know that it was only him responding. Who "they" are, or "we" are is unbenounced to myself. Randy came back with this:

"Is there anything worse than a hater who think he knows the Raiders.I have more important things to do then to wait for a totally stupid reply's that have no truth to them other than stats,everything else is just your stupid immature opinion that doesn't mean squat.You are just hating on Al Davis and the organization.It's to bad you got your panties in a bunch,i may have hit a hater nerve,but never the less,just don't bother talking to me until you can act like you graduated. p.s.Your still missing your bio kid."

It was at that point that I received this wonderful comment from Stan:

"You don't have a clue, do you Bret?

Gilbride? He had a 90 minute PHONE INTERVIEW around Jan 3 or so. What are you referring to? He was NEVER in the running, ever. You're confused. Al's mystery guy was called out by reporters, and Al bumbled like a fool, trying to backtrack. There was no one else.

Yeah, we saw and laughed at the announcing of Cable, where Al was questioned on why he hired all of the assts, where Al got caught in a blatant lie (stated whoever was hired got to hire their own assts, until asked "well, you said the other guy was in it to the end, so if that's true, and the assts were already hired, how could you say either one hired their own? Al's reply? 'uh, well, they just knew they would have to accept some assts"

Yeah, lol, BUSTED.

Cable was used until the end. Embarrased, and humbled, and still Al played him like a fool.

You should read up a little more next time.

As far as Cable doing "all" the scouting?

Just say you were wrong. Obviously he didn't.

TB did lose 4 in a row.

They stunk for 3 weeks, I mean STUNK..so what? they should all of a sudden NOT stink? The continued to stink. Their qb continued to lose big games. (And yes, LMAO that he's now YOUR qb.)

Weak reply on Chaz being double teamed. Foolish comment.

As weak a reply on KC"s qb. he's obviously superior to Russell, and their o line can hardly be worse than that joke of an oline in Oakland.

Sorry dude, but you've just been schooled."

I just responded less than an hour ago. I am done with this man. He is obviously misinformed. It seems all he is good at is twisting words around in his warped mind. I understand I will never get through to him.

When someone disses your article, you have to defend your turf. When they diss your favorite team, they cross a line. When your team is the Raiders, you are fed up with that line being crossed. You feel compelled to make the "hater" change their mind.

Obviously, when people are misinformed, they don't care enough to learn the truth. Stan really should've just listened and taken advice. He is too hard-headed. This will ultimately disturb his livelyhood.

This was my final response to Stan:

"That's funny, I got schooled cause now I feel dumber. You're so smart with your panties all in a bunch. Sucka Sucka. Where is your profile, where are your articles?

I am not going to sit here all the time and play your little mindless game. I don't know where you get your info from but your source is a retard.

On that last note, maybe your source is you. IDK, all I know is I am done. Thanks for helping out my stats though. I appriciate all your hating making me a higher ranker writer on here. Nicely done, I commend you.

P.S. who is this "we" you always refer too, is that your second personality coming out from behind the shadows that cloud your senseless brain?"

What do you think of this Raider Nation? Yours is the answer to the question that I am seeking. Where should you draw the line with the uninformed haters?

I may never know, but I sure would appriciate your insight. Thanks for reading such an arguous and dreadful article. I appriciate your fortitude.


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