The 2008 season has been one bi
tter pill to swallow for fans and alumni of the Fighting Irish.Irish Eyes Are Not Smiling: Notre Dame Football Mired In Mediocrity
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About the Author Chris Bracey (contributor)
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20 comments Last one added 6 months ago — Leave a Comment
Nate Summers 6 months ago
The college football landscape has simply gotten better. There are to many coaches out there who know how to build programs. To attain greatness one must first aquire the pieces to build a solid foundation. When Coach Weis took over, the cupboard was pretty bare on depth and talent. He made due with Coach Willingham's recruits but he had to rebuild the depth in the program and that takes time. With Coach Weis completing his Super Bowl run that year he also fell behind his peers in recuriting. I am not making excuses for the guy it is simply the way it usually goes when you transition to a new coaching staff. The first recruiting class for Coach Weis will graduate this year, but what is a pretty interesting statistic is that 80% or more of the touchdowns scored for the Irish were done so by freshman and sophomores. I know ND is a storied program but all storied programs go through slumps. Alabama had a pretty significant drop off in dominance for awhile. Penn State was calling for Joe Pa's head no more than three years ago. Even Michigan is going to experience the same transition problems that Coach Weis went through last year. The point is this, yes Hawaii is not your traditional powerhouse team by any means, but the Irish did exactly what Florida did to them and that was win soundly. It's a step in the right direction for the Irish and they shouldn't put a whole lot into the victory except in the excecution of assignments.
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Chris Bracey 6 months ago
Well first off, I would disagree that cupboard was bare. Brady Quinn, Jeff Samardzija, Darius Walker, Tom Zbikowski, and Ryan Harris were all Willingham guys and Weis went 19-6 with them. Since they left he has gone 9-15. The bottom line is that "HIS" guys (Clausen, Aldridge, Kamara, etc.) haven't produced.
Also, Alabama despite enduring scandals has won a title more recently (1992), were right there this year, and will be next year too. Paterno has won 9 of his last 11 bowl games and as you pointed out this was Michigan's 1st season with a new coach. Weis will be entering his 5th season with the Irish. Willingham only got 3!
Plus, this year's Hawaii team couldn't hold a candle to the Warrior squad that was "soundly" beat by Georgia in last year's Sugar Bowl.
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Mike Muratore 6 months ago
Chris, Ty recruited well his first class. Brought in the senior group of 2006. His last two recruiting classes he signed 18 and 16 players respectively, of a possible 25, with no 4 or 5 star players. Weis's first full recruiting year, and his first full class are going to be seniors next season. There was a talent gap caused by Willingham's last two years recruiting. That is why there were only 5 senior starters on this team, while there were 12 underclassmen starting.
But, if facts are meaningless...
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Matt Poloni 6 months ago
Last year's Georgia team finished second in the AP poll. If they played this Hawaii team instead of this year's Irish team, it would have still been a blowout, right? I don't see what argument you're making with your final statement there, Chris.
Please clarify if you get the chance.
And don't give Willingham too much credit. His only season with more than six wins came in his first year with almost all Davie recruits. His second year he didn't go to a bowl game. His third year he got to six wins and lost to a 6-5 Oregon State team. And Charlie's success in 2005 had a lot to do with senior players who were all recruited by Bob Davie.
You may think that Charlie isn't a good coach and didn't deserve more than three years, but don't say that Willingham did a better job. Charlie did with Ty and Bob's guys what Ty himself couldn't do.
Other than that, Mike pretty much covered all the bases. I just need to add that the reason there were so few upperclassmen is because the talent Charlie brought in kept getting better and passed the older guys on the depth chart. That took the pretty big gap that there already was and made it into a canyon.
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Doug Kraus 6 months ago
I love the poll questions - leaping from "just over .500" to "earn a BCS bowl bid". There is a HUGE gap between those two options. I think they'll be .500 again looking at their schedule, but they could do a little better. They beat up on a lame Hawaii team, but it was the first time all year they were executing with any precision and continuity. The ND faithful should be encourage but not start setting their sites on a BCS bowl.
Baby steps.
They swing over .500 next year at 7-5 due to yet another schedule that serves them both cupcakes and teams they can't possibly compete against.
2009 Wins:
Nevada, Purdue, Washington, Washington State, Navy, Connecticut and Stanford. None of these could be considered quality wins.
2009 Losses:
Michigan, Michigan State, USC, Boston College, Pittsburgh
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Mike Muratore 6 months ago
Doug... Okay... Notre Dame should have beaten Pitt this year, throttled Michigan, and Michigan State wasn't as wide a margin as the score showed... Notre Dame will be better next year, being a year older. They will still be coached by a moron, so that will cost them a game or two, but lining up they will be more talented than all but two teams on the schedule. Even then, Michigan State is losing it's top three offensive weapons as well as a slew of defensive players. Pittsburgh is also a toss up.
Notre Dame will win 9 games in 2009... and they SHOULD win 9. Short of Clausen Tate and Floyd all being injured early, the offense is going to score a lot against most of the schedule. The line will be better and hopefully they can fix a few blocking schemes.
Notre Dame has had a few Down years... no arguing that. But 2009 is going to be a nod back toward respectability.
I for one PRAY that they don't go 10-2 and end up in a BCS bowl to get throttled. They are another year away from that. 2010, maybe.
And it's not just "blind enthusiasm" as you called it in response to an article I wrote... it is a belief that many people have from watching way too much college football.
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Eric Willoughby 6 months ago
Uconn and Nevada couldn't be considered quality wins??? uconn was ranked most of this season....Nevada has been tough all year too...both are in bowl games....washington state and stanford are also decent.....and there is no way we lose to michigan man seriously....8-4 at worse next year.....
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Tom M. 6 months ago
You are right Nate. The analysis is somewhat superficial in this article.
Comments are a bit of a surprise as well. Last 2 years under Willingham, recruiting never got above top 50. There's some mediocrity for you. Smardzija, Quinn and those others mentioned were the product of one year of recruiting. That does not make a program. This is prcisely what the admin. saw. A program headed downward. Something Willingham has confirmed at Washington as well. The program was headed down and even Pete Carroll mentioned that he saw a gap in ND's program in 1996. This class that Chris refers to that is graduating being Weis's is not a recruiting year. Weis started recruiting in December for Feb.6 signings. Anyone that understands recruiting knows that signing good players begins in their junior year. You don't "recruit" seniors 2 months before signing. It takes relationships with family, the player, even the high school coach. Weis's first recruiting class will be seniors in 2009. If he can not win 9 or more games in 2009, ND needs to look elsewhere for a head coach.
No, downplaying the win because you do not like the school is not what I was hoping for in an article. This win was not just a win, it was a blowout. They did not look like the team I saw during the regular season. If ever there was a game they should have folded in this was it. Nothing to win, everything to lose. Downplaying Hawaii when they were competitive with every team they played, except Florida, calls into question the analysis. Probably the same author predicted Hawaii would win prior to the game. Same analysis most likely. What we saw on the field, like it or not, was one team vastly superior to another. Can they maintain that momentum into next year, I do not know, but the win is to the plus side. Losing would have been one more hurdle toward respectability. And no, they were not respectable this year, but if they can play like they did in this game, next year looks good.
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Chris Bracey 6 months ago
You guys have got to be kidding me with Hawaii. They were 7-7, beat Wash State (2-11), Idaho (2-10), NM State (3-9), 2 WAC teams at 7-5, and Fresno (7-6)..oh and let's not forget the big win vs Weber State. Slaughtered by Florida, Oregon St, and Boise (Legit Good Teams.) But if you guys want to fool yourselves...And to sit there and say there was nothing to play for proves everything that's wrong with Notre Dame.
Plus all I need to know about recruiting is that since 2006, that's 3 years worth of bringing in his guys, Notre Dame has been ranked as one of the top classes in the country. The teams they are losing to (BC. Syracuse, Pitt, Mich State) should not and cannot be more talented. Those games are lost because of bad coaching.
And hey listen, if you don't like my criteria, let's judge the team based on Charlie's. "You are what you are folks. And right now, you're a 6-5 football team. And guess what, that's just not good enough," Weis said at his first press conference back in 2004. Congratulations on your bowl win and good luck next year in the Emerald Bowl.
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Eric Willoughby 6 months ago
Chris chill dude.....Hawaii was an average football team....they beat some average teams this year and lost to some top 10 caliber teams badly! They also lost a few games they should have won just like ND did! But bottom line is....everybody and their mother picked hawaii to win this game with their "explosive" offense and "FAST" defense presuring clausen......and notre dame throttled/manhandled them.....was hawaii a BCS team 'no"....were they last year "no"...but were they a solid football team both years "yes".....if that same ND team would have been on the field against any team in the nation from 15 to 25 ranking.....i guarantee we would have won.....Lets not forget a week earlier that same "crappy" hawaii team you speak of almost beat #11 who is in a BCS bowl!!!! (cincy had to make a lucky comeback)....notre dame controlled the game all 4 quarters.....
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Tom M. 6 months ago
Can't help you Chris. You need to understand the difference between analysis and goals, If you read Larry Burton's article, or Anthony P., Mattt C. maybe it will help. They are all good writers where insightful thoughts are given. But I've given all the input I care to at this point.
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David Tyler 6 months ago
When ND wins, it's because the opponent is flawed. When ND loses, ND isn't any good. Repeat and repeat until accepted as fact. First rule of covering college football: a postive ND spin: only ND fans read; negative spin, EVERYONE reads.
ND continously produces football champions, college graduates (with educations), and solid citizens.
So keep your career moving along the conveyor with your peers....dish it out, make your money and your name, and leave the business of journalism no better off for having been in it.
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Matt Poloni 6 months ago
There are only a few points in your article that I want to address. I assure you that I am only trying to be constructive here.
You claimed that Charlie wanting his team to win this game was somehow being content. There was one game left in the season and he wanted his team to win that game. How is that being content?
You also said that the win was superficial. How is blowing out a bowl eligible team, no matter who their opponents were, superficial? To me, a superficial win would be one that was barely won on the scoreboard, but was actually a loss in terms of how the team played. I saw a team that played very well on Wednesday.
After that, you asked "How low have the expectations fallen at South Bend, that an insignificant bowl win over a fourth place WAC team is seen as a step in the right direction?" Steps in the right direction (in my opinion, again) are not defined by where you think you should be, but by where you were and what you did in response. After the past two seasons, that game was definitely a step in the right direction.
And then there was the Yankee reference. I see parallels between the two teams in terms of results, but surely you realize that any comparison between the handling of mediocre play between the two is inherently flawed.
To begin with, they play at different levels in different sports with a vastly different fanbase. The Yankees can just throw money at players that is so much more than anyone else can offer that other teams can't compete with them on that front.
Notre Dame can't pay their players. They have to convince them to come to the university with their resources. The players only see the benefits from those resources if they put in the necessary work. Yankee players just sign on the dotted line and immediately get the universal benefits of cash.
And only the Yankees hold that kind of edge in Major League Baseball. Notre Dame has to compete with every other football powerhouse, almost all of which have an advantage over the Irish for the players they're recruiting. Whether it's location, recent sucess, or weather...Notre Dame starts from behind with almost every recruit that isn't gung-ho Catholic or has Notre Dame bloodlines. That makes what Charlie has done with recruiting even more remarkable nowadays. History and tradition just don't cut it anymore.
Even though I'm on the other side of many of your points, I do believe this was a well written article. Hope you had a good Christmas, Chris.
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Michael Collins 6 months ago
Chris,
Don't believe the criticism of the legitimacy of your article's points. You conceded the Irish offense and defense looked impressive. (The special teams blocked a punt, setting up a TD, scored a kickoff TD and had a punt return TD called back, too.)
So the Irish won by 28, which could have been 42 but for the punt return called back and the late TD against the second string defense. Yeah, Hawaii gave up 22 points than they averaged during the year and the Irish scored more points on the Warriors than any of the four BCS teams in Hawaii's non-conference schedule except one (Florida, Oregon St, Wash St, Cincinnati).
So, Hawaii beat Nevada, Louisiana Tech, Fresno State (all bowl teams) and lost to Big East champion Cincinnati by only 5.
Stick to your opinion that Notre Dame is mediocre. 7-6 is mediocre for ND.
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David Butler 6 months ago
Wow, Chris...you've got a pretty thin skin or someone who can dish it out so well....so what do you think articles like yours feel like every single day to the derided? Not a great feeling, is it?
As far as "I got you to read it, didn't I"? With that logic, then the current state of ND football is top of the heap...ND got invited to a bowl game, didn't theyy? ND got you to watchtheir games, didn't they? ND got NBC to pay them millions for TV rights, didn't they?
At least be intellectually honest and consistent.
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David Butler 6 months ago
Wow, Chris...you've got a pretty thin skin or someone who can dish it out so well....so what do you think articles like yours feel like every single day to the derided? Not a great feeling, is it?
As far as "I got you to read it, didn't I"? With that logic, then the current state of ND football is top of the heap...ND got invited to a bowl game, didn't theyy? ND got you to watchtheir games, didn't they? ND got NBC to pay them millions for TV rights, didn't they?
At least be intellectually honest and consistent.
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David Tyler 6 months ago
"I'm proud of my article, I stand behind it, and you're free to your opinion".
Not much in the content to be proud of...virtually all of it is opinion , and I guess it's only normal to be proud of our own opinions. Standing behind opinions is not much of a feat of courage. I am entitled to my opinion, which is that your covering ND from the negative side is just good (albeit cheap) business.
Don't even type the P-word...you couldn't hold the satchel of an actual journalist.
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David Tyler 6 months ago
Chris:
Here's a rumour you could do some digging into...I hear that many BCS-level football programs bend the rules with regard to recruiting, academics, and meting out equitable punishment for misbehaving student athletes.
Perhaps you could spare some time to look into some of these disturbing allegations? I realize that confirming any such negative aspects would be detrimental to the important industry that is college football, but surely you would agree that such allegations, if true, need to be exposed.
I eagerly await the truth.
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Dan Tuholski 6 months ago
I'm not going to argue most of this stuff, it sounds like bait for rabid ND fans for the most part, I just want to correct you on your statement about National Championships. Notre Dame has 11 consensus national championships, more than anyone else. They also have an additional 8 national championships that are either split decisions or minority votes. In other words they have so many that they only count the ones that aren't disputed. That's what it means to be Notre Dame. Excellence. I, as a fan, will not accept anything less. 1993 is the last season I was satisfied with ND's performance, and was pissed off when they got robbed of the National Championship that year because of a piddling 3 point loss to BC, especially as ND beat the Florida State team that won it that year.
OK, maybe I will go a little deeper. This year, I was definitely not satisfied. I am, however, optimistic about next season. The Hawaii Bowl, in my opinion, showed what they are capable of. If they can deliver that kind of performance every game, with the schedule they have, they can be a 1 loss team. They have the potential to go undefeated. Of course part of that is just because they have a weak schedule, with only 3 decent teams and one quality opponent. I'm pretty sure Michigan is gonna suck again next year. They'll be better, but they aren't going to the Gator Bowl. ND should get a BCS berth and win it next year. I'll be OK with that, but I won't be happy with ND or Charlie until he wins a National Championship. Because that's what Notre Dame does.
Yes, Hawaii was not a spectacular team, I'll say that, but ND still demolished a team that everyone thought would win. Why? Because most of those people don't actually watch ND games. There were three games that ND was not in this year. Michigan State, Boston College, and USC. In my opinion, Michigan State was turnovers, and in an error free game, ND would have won. BC truly was a better team, as was USC. The other 3 losses turned on a few key plays, and if they had broken ND's way ND would have won. ND was a much better team than their record, and showed that in the Hawaii bowl. Syracuse, North Carolina, and Pittsburgh ND could have and should have beaten. Syracuse was just a case of ND letting off the gas and allowing Syracuse to get back in the game. North Carolina was interceptions, particularly the one to start the second half, if they had not thrown that INT but instead gone down and scored, which looked likely, ND would have been up 3 scores, and the game probably would have been over. Pittsburgh basically turned on a stupid penalty that gave Pitt a first down after being stopped by the ND defense, late in the game. Anyway, enough about this season, I was not happy with ND, I think they were a better team than their record, and that, plus the WAC just not being as good as people think it is, was what led to ND's blowout of Hawaii.
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Pat Grieco 6 months ago
Chris,
I get it...not necessarily offended. Long time ND fan. No I was not impressed by our drubbing of HI. Although I was happy. Not sure what crack addict would say HI would beat ND...no matter their respective records...well most of the press corps are not high, just dillusional with hate.
My standard is Holtz...on any given saturday you can beat anyone in the nation...not sure we've had that since Lou departed. So yea...I get the moving expectation bar...
The part that cracks me up...try and find the predictions of NDs demise in the HI bowl out there...by the 26th they were pretty tough to come by, and even harder to respond to.
I want ND to be able to stand up to the weight of expectation that decades of a winning tradition burden you with...I want it because that is what ND represents...at least to me. I also want them to win again to make the driveby sports media (that means you too ESPN) SHUT THE HELL UP, and find some other means of gaining favor with readers.
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