During the past few weeks, rumors have been circulating about a possible reconfiguration of the Pac-10 conference. Names of teams such as Brigham Young, Utah, and Boise State have been considered as possible new entrants.
It appears as though the conference wishes to add at least two teams to its ranks in the coming years, but it is still unclear who will be invited to join. One possible motive behind this requested change is to create one solid way to decide the conference champion in football each year.
The conference has looked to the examples of the Big-12, C-USA, MAC, ACC, and SEC on how to decide their conference champions. Each conference divides their participants into two divisions, and hold a conference championship game as the final game of the regular season; the divisional champions play for the conference championship.
If the Pac-10 were to invite two other teams into the conference, this would provide a simple yet effective solution to the always changing championship situations; if USC loses to UCLA, Cal loses to Stanford, and Oregon State loses to both Arizona and Oregon, ya-da ya-da ya-da.
Here is how the new conference configuration would work. The new Pac-12 would divide into two separate divisions, the Pac-12 North and the Pac-12 South. The participants from the states of Washington, Oregon and/or Idaho/Utah, would configure the Pac-12 North, while teams from California and Arizona would make up the southern division.
As I see it, there should only be two teams considered for invitation, the Brigham Young Cougars, and the Utah Utes. Boise State should not be considered for invitation because of their abysmal conference schedule.
Let's face it, the WAC is one of the worst conferences in college football. Usually you can count on only having one decent team, rarely two. The Mountain West however continually holds at least three squads that could very well hold their own in larger, more powerful conferences, being BYU, Utah, and TCU.
Here is how the Pac-10 officials should reconfigure the conference if they chose to do so. The Pac-12 North would include Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, BYU, Washington State, and Washington. One could probably count on the winner of the Pac-12 North to be either Oregon, Oregon State, or Utah year after year, as these three teams would make up the power structure of the division.
The Pac-12 South would include USC, Cal, Arizona, Stanford, Arizona State, and UCLA. While many would think that USC would continually win the Southern division, Arizona is starting to become a very respectable threat to any Pac-10 powerhouse, and could very well de-throne the Trojans.
With these new changes, the Pac-10 would become a more respected conference. The BCS buster mentality would be all but vanquished, and the conference would receive a larger number of bowls. Once these new changes take place, the Pac-10 conference will once again rise as one of the premier football conferences in FBS college football.
Now all that is left to accomplish, is to make the Pacific Life Holiday Bowl a January Bowl game.
37 comments Last one added 6 months ago — Leave a Comment
Richard DeLancey 6 months ago
Brigham Young would be a great choice. Utah wouldn't be bad either.
I agree that Boise State isn't a Pac 10 team.
I do however have one more name...
How about Fresno State??? Do they deserve a look?
Great idea for an article.
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Cameron Jerde 6 months ago
Hello Richard,
Thanks for your input. I personally do not believe that Fresno State deserves a look. The Bulldogs have not exactly had much success versus the Pac-10 in recent years. Granted, they did knock off UCLA 36-31 earlier this season, but aside from that there hasn't been much. Fresno State also lost games to Hawaii, Louisiana Tech, Nevada, and were killed by Boise State. The Bulldogs also barely beat the Utah State Aggies 30-28. Oregon has also beat up on the Bulldogs many an occasion.
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Rick Ellis 6 months ago
Utah and Brigham Young could both be good Pac-10 members. Unfortunately, most readers here seem to be unaware that the Boise State football program has an all time record of 12-0 against teams from the Mountain West Conference. That includes 2-0 against Utah, 2-0 against BYU and 1-0 against TCU. Boise State dominates the WAC year in and year out. How could they not be considered a candidate for a PAC-10 expansion when they have consistantly beaten teams from the Mountain West Conference as well as the WAC. Fresno has a decent program, but Boise in the PAC-10 would make much more sense. Cameron seems to have already forgotten the Ducks loss to a 12-0 Boise State team earlier this year in Eugene, Oregon. Boise's record speaks for itself.
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Cameron Jerde 6 months ago
Rick-
I am not denying that Boise State has had success in recent years. What I am saying is that as of now, Boise State does not deserve an invite as of late. Here is why.
First of all, this year's Boise State is much worse than teams in years past. The Broncos have mediocre receivers, an above average redshirt freshmen quarterback, and Ian Johnson, who is a terrific back, the hero of the Fiesta Bowl. Their out of conference schedule this season was filled with cupcake teams except for Oregon, whom they should not have beaten.
This brings me to my second point. Boise State won the Oregon game not because they were a better team, but because of one of the dirtiest plays committed this season. I am of course referring to the blatantly late hit on Oregon quarterback Jeremiah Masoli. To put it simply, Masoli was lucky to leave the game with a concussion and not a broken neck. What I have come to realize is that when Boise State has not fielded as good of a team as in years past, they rely on cheap shots and dirty play to win games to appear stronger than they really are. I know what you are probably going to say. "Jeremiah Masoli was not a very good quarterback earlier in the season." Well guess what, he was ten times better at throwing the ball than Chris Harper. Had the Boise State bastard not blatantly attempted to take out Masoli, Boise State would have lost, and you know it.
Thirdly, the behavior of Boise State coach Chris Petersen should be the biggest reason why the Broncos should NEVER be considered for a Pac-10 invitation. After the stunt that two of Petersen's "class players" pulled in the Oregon game, Petersen decided not to discipline either of the players. Boise State considers themselves a "class act", and yet they pull blatantly intentional stunts that can seriously hurt a player of another team. Until Petersen can have some moral standards to live up to, the Broncos should never be considered for a Pac-10 invitation. For all I, and the rest of the Pac-10 care, the Broncos can continue to play crap teams, and then bitch and moan as to why they aren't considered for a BCS bowl. How thick are Bronco fans head's. Don't you get it? You are not that great. Get over yourselves, and learn to have some morality and respect.
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K H 6 months ago
Cameron,
Hits like the one you are complaining about happen all the time in college football. They don't necessarily mean that a program is classless. I understand that you are upset that Boise State beat your Ducks, but give them some credit. To say that the Ducks lost because of a single hit is typical excuse-making that Duck fans constantly throw out there. Sometimes you just get beat. From how you Duck fans talk Oregon should be undefeated over the last ten years except everytime you lost you got screwed. Please cite a single other example of Boise State pulling "blatantly intentional stunts" to win games in which they are overmatched? You completely lose all credibility with anyone who is not a Duck fan when you base your whole reason for not wanting to include Boise State in the Pac 10 is because they beat your Ducks and you feel like you got screwed.
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Cameron Jerde 6 months ago
K,
There are a number of reasons why I am upset. Not only does the classless play bother me, but the classless behavior afterwards by head coach Chris Petersen. I believe I stated that in my last comment, but if not, here it is. Petersen's decision to not discipline either of the players who committed the classless acts made me, and many others lose much respect for him. You can say that hits like that happen all the time, but when you look into it, and see how well Masoli has played, regardless of the time in the season, and the talent level Boise State's defense, that hit did cost the Ducks the game. Had Masoli been in the game, the ducks would not have been forced to exclusively run the football. The Ducks would have won the game had Masoli not been hit so late. I do not know about you, but when Masoli was lucky not to have broken his neck due to the horribly late hit, or any time a late hit occurs, that player should be disciplined. No ifs ands or buts about it. If Boise State wants to maintain the "integrity" of their football program, then they will discipline their players. Until then, they should never be considered for an invitation. Those are my arguments. If you choose not to take them then so be it, but I will always defend the Ducks when a heinous act like a severely late hit that can end a career is committed. Anything less would make me a bad fan. I have integrity, unlike Chris Petersen. If I were the athletic director at Boise State, I would strongly consider a suspension of not only the players, but Petersen himself for not taking any action whatsoever.
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Steve Newman 6 months ago
Richard, Boise State and Fresno State would be the best additions to the Pac-12, Fresno play some very tough schools. Although Hawaii opened in 2008 against the Gators, but pound for pound Fresno plays some tough teams. People forget that Pat Hill will play anyone at anytime...and most schools are afraid og the Dogs. Me, I am a USC fan I just assume no face Fresno State without being forced to. Now lets see USC and Florida play on January 10th, 2009...call it a Bowl + 1 game...Steve
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Richard DeLancey 6 months ago
Just thought of another one.... UNLV??? The Runnin' Rebs is in the Pac 10???
Think about it, not so crazy eh???
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Cameron Jerde 6 months ago
Hello again Richard,
The Runnin' Rebels did upset Arizona State this season, but the Sun Devils aren't exactly the USC Trojans. The Rebels aren't exactly that strong of a team. They have missed out on a bowl game, and won only two conference games. I'm only picking top-quality teams, like Utah and BYU. These teams are very good, but play cupcake schedules.
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Nate Dunn 6 months ago
I voted for Boise St/Fresno St. before I read your article but have since changed my mind. I think the BYU/Utah choice is the best for several reasons. They are both very good teams, they are in the same state and they already have a rivalry going. Sure would make things interesting. I would miss having the round-robin though.
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Cameron Jerde 6 months ago
Hey Nate,
Thanks for the comment. What would happen is that the teams would keep their schedules the same way. Each team would still play 3 out of conference games. Then the remaining 9 games would be conference ones. It would be required that each team faced every one in their own division, 5 games, plus four teams from the opposite division, and those teams would rotate each year.
I like the divisional system, and hope it works out.
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Nate Dunn 6 months ago
I guess that wouldn't be too bad, playing 9 out of the 12 teams each year.
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Mark Jones 6 months ago
Interesting, as well as humorous. Great POTD, Cameron.
I think that Fresno State and UNLV do deserve a look, but aren't good enough. Do not eliminate Boise State, though...I think they're as good as BYU. And some other names to be considered (even though they won't make it):
TCU
New Mexico
Nevada
But the Mountain West is a respectable conference; they might try hard to hold on to BYU and Utah (and TCU as well, for that matter). Instead, the WAC has no power; Fresno State, Boise State, UNLV, and Nevada won't be to hard to claim into the Pac-10/12.
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Cameron Jerde 6 months ago
Hello Mark,
Thanks for your read, the comment, and POTD vote.
As of now, I do not think that Boise State should be even considered for an invitation. The WAC is one of the worst conferences in all of college football. Two of their teams, New Mexico State and Utah State, were in the Sun Belt conference just 4 or so years ago. Until Boise State actually can schedule a very tough out of conference schedule and win those games, they should not be considered. And also, if it weren't for the cheap ass, blatantly late hits on Dickson and Masoli, Boise State would not have won that game.
Utah definitely deserves an invite, BYU though can be speculated upon. After all, they barely beat the Huskies.
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Cameron Jerde 6 months ago
Also, New Mexico and Nevada are way too weak to compete in the Pac-10. TCU would be nice, but then again, they're all the way in Northern Texas. Not exactly the Pacific portion of the USA.
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dale applegate 6 months ago
Silly silly article and thoughts. The Pac 10 considers much more than the recent competitiveness of the football teams. The look at other sports e.g. basketball, wrestling, women sports. Further, the Pac 10 is very interested in academic quality. Not only things like graduation rates and research university status but overall academic reputation.
With this is mind Nevada and BSU wont make the first cut. The mission and direction of each of these universities excludes them from ever being a Standford, Cal or even Oregon. In fact Idaho is a closer academic fit then these two. BYU and especially Utah closer fit the Pac 10 academic model. Other than Colorado and San Diego State they are probably the most academically respected large universities with a big time sports program left in the West.
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Cameron Jerde 6 months ago
Hey Dale,
Thanks for your input.
There are some schools that only compete in one sport in a conference. Take Notre Dame for example, they play Big East basketball. Same with schools like Villanova, Seton Hall, Providence, Duquense, and many others.
While academics do fall greatly into the pick, athletics should as well. The Pac-10 has a very high reputation of including universities that are both academically and athletically strong. If we based our picks solely off of academics, the Pac-10 would become another WAC or Sun Belt.
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Sean Miner 6 months ago
Not sure if you knew this, man, and I agree that the WAC is awful and weak, but BSU is 12-0 against the MWC... Shouldn't that figure into the whole "Who is good enough.." I guess you'd rather leave it to speculation based on strength of conference instead of the abounding evidence that BSU is a much better program.. I can understand that a majority of wins over the MWC might not be compelling enough, but undefeated? Come on...
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David Chan 6 months ago
Pac 10 is an academic association first (like the Ivy League) and only accepts research universities. I suspect Utah and BYU would qualify, I'm guessing Boise State doesn't. None of the Cal State Universities qualify so that eliminates Fresno St. Also North/South would never fly because all the schools recruit in the Los Angeles area, so none would give up their home and home with UCLA and USC.
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PB B 6 months ago
Its funny reading these posts.... some are Duck fans, Utah, BYU, Pac-10, etc., fans and most are saying that Utah or BYU would be a better choice than Boise??
Look at the Boise record against TCU, UTAH, and BYU....Then look at our record against the MWC. UNDEFEATED!! NUFF SAID!!
Boise State owns the WAC and MWC. That may not be saying much, but it's all we can do right now.
I can see why Pac-10 fans would not want Boise to join, seeing how Boise has dominated every level of football they have played in, in the history of the program. We would just push down some of the top tier teams in the pac-10, and all but USC, CAL, and Oregon would have be extremely worried and the latter would have another dominate team to lose to year in-year out.
Bottom line - Boise is the best non-BCS team out there every year! If any team deserves a shot for a BCS conference or bigger bowl games, its BOISE STATE! BSU is a perrenial power, ranked in top 15 every year! You can't say that about BYU, UTAH or TCU. They are good teams, but they are no BSU.
Hey did you hear? Oregon Ducks want to play us in China next year instead of in Boise.... but no, the Pac-10 isn't afraid to let little ol' Boise join them. Honestly who in the right mind would want to play Boise if they cared about their program? We would just win.....again.
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David Hedlind 6 months ago
Besides football Boise State doesnt measure up in the other sports.
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Cameron Jerde 6 months ago
Yeah, I guess you're right. After all, Boise sure laid a whipping on TCU in the Poinsettia bowl. Oh wait...
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Greg Crewse 6 months ago
Think you need to consider some demographics in this mix. Boise is growing and often named in the top places of several periodicals to live. BSU has a history of growth and taking it to the next level by winning every time they move up. In the last 30 years they have moved from being a Junior College (won a National Championship) to Div II (won a National Championship) to Div I and playing in a BCS bowl. BSU is putting a lot of capital into expansion and academics. They need about 10,000 more seats (would give then about 42K) in the stadium and increased focus on academics - it's not that big of a stretch. BSU football is huge in Boise (and a lot of other places where the underdog is the hero) they will do whatever it takes to move up.
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Gerald Ball 6 months ago
Going to a 12 team format and adding a championship game would be horrible for the Pac-10. It would actually reduce revenue, because no western team would add much in the way of TV ratings or attendance. It would also not add a major recruiting market. And were you to add two teams that regularly finish in the top 10 against mid - major schedules like Utah and Boise or BYU ... do you honestly think that those programs would continue to go 11-1 or 12-0 against major college schedules? It is one thing for Utah or Boise to be able to get up for one game a year against Oregon or Ole Miss. It is quite another to play 8 conference games in the Pac-10, plus 2 games against major nonconference foes, plus 2 games against mid - majors who circle their one game against you on their calendar. If established major conference schools have trouble with that, what makes you think that a mid - major will move up and do it?
Also, you guys love to talk about adding the Utahs, Fresnos, BYUs, Boises, etc. when they finish undefeated and highly ranked. Well what about when those schools finish 7-5? The truth is that these programs go through their ups and downs even against their mid-major schedules. Utah hired Urban Meyer only after firing their previous coach, and then they had a few mediocre years after Meyer left. And BYU has been up and down for the past 20 years. And when has Pat Hill ever actually won an outright conference title at Fresno? So if a 12-0 Utah would likely go 9-3 against a Pac-10 schedule, how would a 9-3 Utah or Boise or BYU fare against a Pac-10 schedule? 6-6 at best.
The Pac-10 already has a bunch of schools that go 6-6 or 8-4 or 4-8 every year that don't have large markets or national TV followings or consistently recruit 4 and 5 star athletes. What good is adding two more going to accomplish? The Pac-10 needs to hire better coaches and staffs to recruit better players to the programs that they have. They need to get guys at places like Washington, Arizona and Cal that can stop the best California players from going east and get some of the best players from Texas, Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, Virginia and New Jersey to come west. They need guys who will go with whatever style or scheme that it takes to win instead of living and dying with the passing game and offensive football.
The Pac-10 doesn't need to invite BYU, Utah, or Boise. What they need to do is hire BYU, Utah, and Boise's coaches! Hiring Utah's last coach seemed to work pretty well for the SEC, didn't it?
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Travis Rice 6 months ago
1) Academics
2) Money Markets - BYU is HUGE
3) Athletic competitiveness (All)
As football fans we'd love to just choose two teams based on football, but there's much more to it than that.
As for "hiring better coaches" I say Mike Bellotti, Pete Carroll, Mike Riley, Jim Harbaugh (soon to be great), Dennis Erickson (Great college guy) The pac-10 has plenty of great coaches that could land a job nearly anywhere else in the nation.
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mark andersson 6 months ago
It won't happen. As someone above pointed out they look at many other things than athletics. Things like how much grant money the school receives, how large their graduate programs are, how strong the academic programs are, how large the libraries are, etc.
When this was being bantered around years ago the nearest school to the coast that qualified was Texas. Really! BYU, Utah, and others weren't even close to qualifying. Even more so for Boise State and others who are even smaller than BYU.
The Pac-10 does not see itself merely as an athletic conference.
Not saying this is a good or a bad idea, just the way it is!
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Crayton 6 months ago
I guess the Pac-10 could try two football only members?
If were purely speculating... no divisions. Teams play 5 rivals annually and rotate through the other 6 every other year. You might end up with ties, but that is where the Conference Championship Game comes in. Come on, how much did we want to see the Longhorns play against Oklahoma for the Big 12 title!
If you are going to do divisions then try the SEC model of one permanent rival in the opposing conference. This way you can split the LA market and go ahead and split Washington, Oregon, Arizona, NorCal, and Utah too; keep the recruitment spread.
Also, the large Mormon demographic around Utah should not be overlooked when it comes to recruitment of players or coaches.
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Cameron Jerde 6 months ago
Thanks for the input Crayton. The Mormon population is definitely something that should be considered
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Dallas Wilson 6 months ago
Great article, Cameron. I agree completly that the Pac 12 would be an improvement over the Pac 10. Utah and BYU would be great additions to the league. For example, if the conference expands in say, 2010, Byu and Utah would have the best resumes. Byu has already beaten Oregon recently, and Utah has a chance to show the country what the have next year when the teams play. If Utah makes a good showing against the Ducks, I think that they should be included. Also, please check out my new article on Jeremiah Masoli.
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CrimsonUte 6 months ago
Utah is a research school, and has a particularly strong biomedical research program. And if you want to consider basketball as well, Utah has had a great basketball program in the not-so-distant past and BYU has been strong lately.
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Brian Murphy 6 months ago
Boise State (BSU) plays in a subpar conference but annually destroys the competitiion. By the way, BSU is 12-0 lifetime against the MWC and 64-2 in their last 66 home games. I do not care who you are playing that is one heck of an accomplishment. Let's not forgot BSU beat OK in the Fiesta Bowl two years ago and beat OR on the road this year.
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Joey irish 6 months ago
Are people worried About BSU moving to the Pac 10 and winning? They have been playing the bottom 10 teams for years and if I remember right doesn't that honor go to a couple of pac 10 teams. Letting in BSU and Utah will only make that confrence stronger with teams that know how to win year in and year out!
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David Hedlind 6 months ago
I wrote this back in June on my blog on fox sports.
here is my take on an expansion and why i would choose BYU and Utah
http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Olyduck/2008/06/25/Pac_10_Expansion
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Steve Newman 6 months ago
Let's face the music, if the Pac-10 seeks respect...it must become the Pac-12 to strengthen its schedule. Utah and Boise State would be convenient choices, but Utah has not the population base in Salt Lake City that will support their movement to be a powerhouse Pac-12 team, not when the populous supports BYU due to the support of the LDS church. Boise State is also heavily influenced by the LDS church, not common knowledge if you reside outside of Utah or Idaho, but many of Boise State supporters treat the school as the prodigal son, still loved but kept with contempt. So kick them out of the house…send them out to the Pac-12! Boise would be an easy selection as it has proven itself year after year, but neither BYU nor Utah will be seen in the future Pac-12, the reason is BYU sits very much in control of the Mountain West and Utah will not have the support to make that move. But the prodigal son...Boise State will test the waters so to speak and be the token choice. If it works for Boise it could work for us mentaility!
Now let’s look at them Dawgs' Pat Hill states "anywhere-anytime" when it comes to playing other schools. Wisconsin, USC, UCLA, Rutgers, nobody welcomes a visit with the Dawgs' and Ole Miss in 2009 will get lesson in Dawg-pound tactics. As a supporter of USC, Fresno State is the last school I want coming to the coliseum. Pat Hill has a way of beating you at smash-mouth football and it’s painful to see. Since Fresno is the 6th largest city in the State of California, 35th largest in the United States (infoplease.com) it has the San Joaquin Valley and tons of supports in the State of California to support such a move to the Pac-12. This combined with the fact that Fresno State plays with other Big Dogs makes them an ideal candidate to join the Pac-12. But you're thinking Hawaii right? You think anyone with talent wants to fly 5 hours from the West Coast or 10 from the East Coast one way even to play a 3 hour game! Sorry Hawaii, until you scoot your island a little closer, only smaller conferences will accept you! How was that trip to Florida this year….was it really worth it?
So the Boise State Broncos and The Fresno State Bulldogs and the ideal additions to the Pac-12. The only way I want to play these teams play my team is if I am forced via conference play…otherwise Pat Hill and the Dawgs’ can play my competitors.
Steve Newman
Daytona Beach, FL.
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Cameron Jerde 6 months ago
Steve,
You seem to forget that Fresno State has been slaughtered by the Oregon Ducks many times in the 90's and 2000's. As of right now, I don't think that Fresno State is strong enough to compete in the Pac-10. Don't get me wrong, I love Pat Hill's fearless mentality, but all that would get him in the Pac-10 would be a low tier bowl game. They'd beat Washington, Washington State, and UCLA year in and out, but would get killed by the likes of USC, Arizona, Oregon, and Oregon State. Arizona State and Stanford would be close matchups. I'd actually give the Bulldogs one more win to ASU, but not to Stanford. That would give the Bulldogs a conference record of 4-5 and they would have to win their out of conference games to qualify for a bowl. Not exactly a great addition to the conference.
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Steve Newman 6 months ago
Cameron,
You bring up a good point, but let’s not forget that Fresno State beat USC in the 1990's Freedom Bowl. In 2005, the Trojan's would have not survived against the Dawgs had Reggie Bush not had the game of his life. In 2008, UCLA fell to Fresno State…but that may not be saying much with UCLA’s performance this year. The Wisconsin Badgers were torn apart by David Carr and company not long ago, and this year the Badgers won by a field goal. Let's not forget that USC has also lost to Oregon and Oregon State in recent years. My argument is not “pro-Fresno”; it’s just to say that Utah, BYU, Boise State, Hawaii, or Fresno State would be a good addition to the Pac-12. Time and time again the Bulldogs upset Rutgers or even Georgia Tech as they did in 2007. The Yellow Jackets still sting from that game. So I agree with you Cameron in parts, but you have to look at strength of schedule, look at the teams that all these schools play. Fresno does not seek out sub divisional teams (former Div 1 AA) they seek out top tier teams and beat them. I found your comments interesting, so I reached out to an old friend last night Tim Drevno tight ends coach at Stanford (Tim and I went to South High in Torrance, CA, together 83-87). I asked Tim what he thought of Boise State and Fresno State, Tim replied, "either team could beat us when it is their day." Tim had suggestions as to who he thought should join the conference, but asked that I not publish his opinions. Cameron, you have a good argument, but Fresno State, Boise State, Utah, Hawaii, Colorado State, or BYU are all qualified to make it happen in the new Pac-12. But I think we can all agree that the current Pac-10 must absorb two of these qualified teams to become a dominate force in the NCAA. If the University of Montana continues to dominate the sub-divisional Big Sky conference they could replace a position in the WAC was well as Cal Poly, so let’s see what happens!
Steve
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Cameron Jerde 6 months ago
Interesting, thanks for the input Steve. The only team I would have to disagree on is is Hawai'i right now. The only problem with the Warriors is that they aren't consistent. They can have a good season once in a while, but because of the size of their recruiting budget, they usually don't. Right now, I think if the Pac-10 wants to greatly improve the strength of their conference, they need to go with not just the teams who were strong this year, but who have been consistently strong, like BYU, and Utah.
It's going to be even more interesting when the Utes travel to Autzen Stadium next year, in what will most likely be a Top-10 matchup
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