While centers may be the biggest and the strongest of the NBA giants, the supreme big men in the league today inhabit the power forward position.
The best power forwards are the most versatile specimens the NBA displays, with some exhibiting guard-like speed and leaping ability, some possessing powerful strength combined with ballerina-like footwork, and others demonstrating an uncanny combination of outside shooting, post moves, and rebounding prowess.
This list does not take into account a player’s future prospects or past salad days. The criteria is simple: Which NBA power forward is best suited to being an integral part of a championship team this year.
Due to the way some NBA lineups are presently constructed, a handful of potential power forwards will be asked to play different positions this year. For that reason, Rasheed Wallace, Al Jefferson, Udonis Haslem, Jermaine O’Neal, and Al Horford are listed as centers, while Lamar Odom, and Josh Smith are counted as small forwards,
No rookies made the list, as neither you nor I have seen them play in meaningful games against meaningful competition to know where they should be ranked.
Introduction aside, the list:
1) Tim Duncan—San Antonio Spurs
Though 32 years old, Duncan remains the standard by which current NBA big men are judged.
His post up game is exceptional, with superior footwork, balance, and upper-body strength allowing him to unleash an arsenal of precision post-up moves, ranging from quick spins, sweeping hooks, and powerful face-up drives, all capable of being executed with either hand, though he prefers his right hand from the left box.
Duncan’s face-up bankers have diminished in effectiveness, but still must be respected. He remains the premier passing big man in the NBA, as his court vision allows him to dissect double teams and find open cutters and spot-up shooters. He sets screens with earnestness, will never yield a loose ball, and is the second best rebounder in the game, aside from Dwight Howard.
What sets Duncan apart is his genius-level defensive IQ, as TD is constantly in perfect position on defense to close off whatever gap an opponent might have seen. Duncan only blocks shots as a last resort as his positioning consistently forces slashers to pass the ball, take difficult attempts, or pick up unnecessary charges.
Still, he can wait as long as possible for offensive players to shoot, allowing himself to defend his man an extra beat while still being in position to alter shots.
Duncan is not without his flaws. His ability to defend players who can turn-and-face is only average at best, as is his ability to pass after being double teamed on the move. Inconsistent free throw shooting has also been a thorn in his side.
Still, there are few players in the game, as talented, as smart, and as unselfish as Duncan, and nobody as consistently clutch in pressure situations.
83 comments Last one added 7 months ago — Leave a Comment
sam the fact checker 10 months ago
i know in your last list u had verejo and big z...and now u have lee and randolph...and since u have artest on this list...couldnt u do the same with scola...i mean...im pretty sure scolas better than half these people...
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Edited, with Scola now where he belongs, at 22.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
You're absolutely right about Scola, and the other site I write for pointed that out right away too. That was my fault for failing to look at Houston's bench after listing Artest as a power forward. Give me a few minutes and I'll make the changes.
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Dennis James 10 months ago
Marvin Williams is a small forward and Josh Smith plays at the four....
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
when I watch the Hawks in the regular season, Williams is playing the four and Smith is playing the three.
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Dennis James 10 months ago
I stand to disagree with you on this one. Check the staring lineup. Ask any Hawk fan here in Atlanta or online (RealGM, Hawksquawk, etc.) and they will gladly tell you that Marvin Williams is the starting small forward and Josh Smith is the power forward riding shotgun in the paint with Al Horford. Their stats alone is all the evidence you'll need (Smith is 18/9 w/2.5 blocks a game while Williams is 14/5). Does 14/5 sound like the stats of a starting power forward, even for a team like the Hawks?
Marvin's entire offense (well, 99.9999% of it) is his midrange shot, which keeps him glued around the perimeter and makes him the kick out guy when 86 people drift towards Joe Johnson when he gets the ball. He never, EVER, EVER defends the opposing team's power forward; he's wayyyy too weak in the frame for that job (even a total biscuit like Mike Woodson knows that). He rarely goes into the lane with the ball without losing it, getting fouled, falling down, or getting called for charging. That's not my opinion; THAT'S A FACT.
Josh Smith may drift out on the perimeter and do his best Antoine Walker impersonation from time to time (which we all wish he'd stop doing) but the rest of the night, he's in the lane defending the other team's four.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
You might be right then. I usually see Smith defending the perimeter, with Williams inside. Also, Smith, by default, is a better rebounder than Williams, hence the stats. On offense, Smith is a jump shooter who'll drive from the wings, while Williams is usually a baseline player, who can drive, but mostly shoots. It's too late for me to amend the article though.
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Tim Coughlin 10 months ago
Both good players, but neither of them should be playing power forward. How's that?
They should both be small forwards, but I understand wanting to have them both on the floor.
Either way, Smith is listed as the PF on the Yahoo! depth chart and Williams is slotted in at SF, for what it's worth.
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Tim Coughlin 10 months ago
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/atl/depthchart
(Meant to add that in my previous comment.)
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nate jones 10 months ago
bass, jamison, lewis and marion all play small forward. Also, Leon Powe belongs at about number seven on this list. And McDyess is better than Maxiell? WTF google for sending me to this cursed site!
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
So I guess Hedo Turkoglu, Caron Butler, and James Jones (assuming Beasley and James Jones as Miami's small forwards) play the power forward position then! Why does Antonio McDyess start and play more minutes than Maxiell, and have more playoff impact, and only a moron would consider Brandon Bass a small forward. WTF google for sending such a moronic person to my site.
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Michael Inglis 10 months ago
Stop complaining. Wheather they are a small forwar or poward forward doesn't really make a differene. They are interchangable. The bottom line is that the players are big men that play down low and aren't centers.
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Mike Turnell 10 months ago
Leon Powe at 7?!?!? I don't even know how to argue with that, it's just ridiculous.
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Michael Whittenberg 10 months ago
I might put Dirk a bit higher, but good stuff as usual.
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Jim Truesdale 10 months ago
Good article.. IMO Garnett is the best PF in the game at the moment and I would have Amare and Chris Bosh ahead of both Brand and West but hey?
Fun read.. Oh and Nate.. Did you seriously say that Leon Powe belongs at #7 on this list? Hahahahaha.. Your homer goggles must be like 10 ft thick.. Did you room with Leon at Cal or something? What's with the over exaggeration? Haha
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Robert Kleeman 10 months ago
Great work, as usual.
My only quibble is with Ron Artest being listed as a power forward. I imagine if the Rockets get desperate they will play him there, but pending his ultimate approval on the court, I think Adelman plans to bring him off the pine at the two or three spot.
If the Rockets can re-sign Carl Landry and Dikembe Mutombo, I think Adelman will use a five man big rotation, plus whatever minutes Joey Dorsey earns.
Adelman used Artest at every position in Sacramento, but with the Rockets, he has the luxury of using him mostly on guards and small forwards.
Artest tells Houston media that he can be the "fourth, fifth, sixth or seventh option, whatever Adelman needs me to do," so we'll see how that turns out.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Artest played a lot of power forward in Sacramento, and is a better post defender than he is a perimeter defender. I can easily see Adelman putting Artest at the four and daring teams to score 85 points. The Rockets should have more than enough offensive firepower to run simple sets and score enough to win. I think having him at the four, and Battier at the three is Houston's best lineup, just because no team would want to face both Battier and Artest on the floor at the same time.
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Robert Kleeman 10 months ago
I also forgot about Chuck Hayes, who is signed for another two seasons.
I don't see Artest stealing away minutes at the four from five to six players already slated to get the bulk of the playing time.
Adelman did play him at the four in Sacramento, but that doesn't mean he will do the same in Houston.
The Kings and The Rockets are too different teams. Adelman has far more options than he did in Sacramento.
I will try to rehash what I think are the different lineups Adelman might use at the end of games. I base this off comments from interviews and watching all of their 82 games last year.
McGrady, Artest, Battier, Scola, Yao
Alston, McGrady, Battier, Artest, Yao
McGrady, Barry, Artest, Scola, Yao
etc.
My point is that I wouldn't list Artest as a power forward because of the few minutes he might play there at the end of a game. I do not anticipate him playing more than two to five minutes at the four in Houston.
The ability to play Artest at the two or three is too tantalizing to use him in an undersized role at the four.
I don't think any of the above players will mind playing end-of-game musical chairs if Adelman determines that one of these lineups fits better at the end of a game than the traditional one.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
The thing is, Artest is better in every way than the players you're mentioning, and most of them are undersized power forwards anyway. Artest can score from the post better than them, and can defend the post better than them too. Scola and Mutombo can be the backup power forward and center, with Landry also getting minutes. Artest can slide over to the three, but at the beginning and end of games, I think he's more valuable than any of Houston's other power forwards and should play there.
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Robert Kleeman 10 months ago
I will concede that Artest has more talent, and thus, should be better than all of the above players at the four position.
I still think Artest would serve the Rockets best in a sixth man role. He offers the complete package on both ends, unlike Battier or some of those other players, and could enter a game at the first quarter's five minute mark and give the other team's second unit twos and threes a real thrashing.
At this point in his career, Artest may defend the post better at times than he does the perimeter. I still think Adelman will want Artest to seal off paint penetration more than match up with Tim Duncan and David West.
The starting lineup of Alston, McGrady, Battier, Scola and Yao has already proven one of the most statistically efficient in the league. The problem, of course, has been keeping that lineup on the court and off the injury list.
What intrigues me about Artest's addition is the option Adelman now enjoys, where he can start that already effective lineup, and then bring in Artest. What the Rockets have lacked most in the Yao/T-Mac era is a scorer/impact player who can change a game with both star players on the bench.
The thing is, the Rockets have already been daring teams to score 85 points. What Adelman has now is a team that can score as well as it defends (at least on paper). That's why I value Artest more as a two/three hybrid, where he can create matchup nightmares for smaller defenders. Defensively, he can work to push those same guards/small forwards around and exhaust them.
If Scola and Landry are in foul trouble, would I mind moving Arest to the four spot for a few minutes? The ability to play him there, and knowledge that he filled that role well in Sacramento, is nice insurance.
I understand your argument, but I disagree. We will find out which way Adelman decides to go in October and either direction should bode well for the Rockets.
Oh, and wonderful description of Tim Duncan. Even one of his biggest fans could not have said it better. Did I mention superb list?
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Mike Turnell 10 months ago
It's been reported that Lamarcus Aldridge has gotten a lot bigger and stronger over the offseason.
Also Antawn Jamison, a 20 and 10 guy, deserves to be higher.
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Michael Wagner 10 months ago
Amare is better than West but I suppose that is up for debate. Amare is a freak...
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Caelan B 10 months ago
again like in your center list some of your centers weere powers forwards and now some of your power forwads are small forwards ,ron artest did play alot of power forward in sacramento but i dont think he will in houston because adelman knows small forward his artests prime postion...... also ,marion and camby arent pfs cambys a center and marion wont play pf in miami because of udonis haslem and zo at the center
(p.s is 2 high and brandon bass should be like 28 -30 also andrea bargnani should be on this list at lik number 20 or 24 because of his shitty rebounding
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Is Alonzo even going to play again? Right now, Haslem is Miami's center. Artest played the four in Sacramento a ton, plus Artest at the four with Battier at the three is Houston's best lineup.
Tell me who is starting at power forward for the Clippers this year?
Bass is extremely talented and versatile on both ends of the court, while Bargnani can't rebound, can't do anything offensively besides shoot jumpers, and he's quite possibly the worst defender in the NBA. Sorry, Bargnaini is nowhere close to being a Top 30 anything.
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Daniel Black 10 months ago
Yea i agree with most of the list, not with all your comments but some of your reasoning is just down right stupid. You were a real suckup to David West by putting him at 4 above Chris and Amare, then you criticized Chris's Defense, which if you watched basketball was at least average to slightly above, you also called Pau soft, who also should be above West for the time being. Now even I could continue and rant about what a personally think but the stats speak for themselves i mean:
David West- 37.8mpg/FG .482/3PFG.240/FT .850/ REB 8.9/AST 2.3/ STL .8/BLK 1.3/PPG 20.6
Chris Bosh- 36.2 mpg/FG.494/3PFG .400/ FT .844 /8.7 REB /AST 2.6/STL .9 /BLK 1.0/PPG 22.3
When You Compare these two Bosh I guess also is a Triple Threat, A Diligent Rebounder, A Born Raptors Leader, But Bosh has a Solid Outside Game and His Defense Statistically is Just as Good and If You Watched the Olympics The whole team was talking about his Offensive and Defensive skills he brought to the table. Bosh is Bigger and only is 1 inch taller and 10 pounds lighter, so west isn't really a "strong player" he also the same speed as Bosh who is one of the fastest Power Forwards, and is also one of the most respectful and discipline players too. So when you take that into account and compare stats and this is with Bosh's injury because if i remember correctly he had 10.7 rebounds the year before per game... Well above average NBA elite Rebounding. If you compare the two Bosh Wins by a Score of 5-3 in less minutes in a very tight comparison. Chris Bosh is better as of now.
While two players Amare and Pau have stats that consist of:
Amare Stoudemire: 33.9 MPG/FG.590/3PFG .161/FT .805/REB 9.1/AST 1.5/ STL.8/BLK 2.1/PPG 25.2
Pau Gasol: 34.0MPG/FG.589/ 3PFG.000(none attempted)/FT.789/REB 7.8/ AST 3.5/STL .5/BLK1.6/PPG18.8
Now if you compare these guys its actually funny, cause you said West was overshadowed when Gasol wasn't even on the All Star Team, and Pau was an instrumental piece of the NBA Finalist Lakers. Now in comparison Amare beats West 5-4(due to a Tie) and Pau Lost, but two discerning factors were the facet he played 4 minutes less, was injured, had has stats slightly decline in some areas, and rise in some areas after the lakers trade as he learned to share the load instead of doing it all in Memphis. Including a full rebound less per Game. Now for your list i think Amare and Bosh should be ahead of West in whatever order and Pau should be homing in on West. Because otherwise your list seems ridiculous. And i understand your considering Amare a power forward but he's a center he's only PF cause of the Shaq acquisition.
And with Guy like Boozer and Dirk closing in He really will have to struggle to hold his position and where is Jermaine O'Neal he may have had injuries but he is definitely at least between 20-30 especially with his great defensive capabilities. Otherwise you have a decent list but you really need to work on your reasoning and don't include your personal opinion cause it tarnishes your credibility.
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nate jones 10 months ago
Look buddy, Maxiell is a more potent player than mcdyess (see: dunks, production per minute, hustle), Marion does play small forward, jamison plays on a small club just like Brandon Bass neither of which have a true power forward. Kenyon Martin, Joe Smith, Jeff Foster, Eduardo Najera, Zach Randolph, those guys did a lot to help their teams win, didn't they? My bad for interfering with your powerful basketball column. Ben Wallace, McDyess and Maxiell all did a great job of handling Powe in the playoffs this year, which is why you are so justifiably self righteous. Now, roll back over into your couch in your parents basement in the warm, cozy confines of your virtual world where everything is safe. Venture back into my zone, though, and I might just be inclined to dismantle your precious top 30 centers haha
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Who gives a damn about dunks, Maxiell doesn't have any halfcourt offense, and he isn't a better rebounder or defender than McDyess. Then look at Maxiell's playoff impact over McDyesses. I like Maxiell, but just because he's on sportscenter more doesn't mean he's a better player.
Ummm....Jamison plays on a team with Brendan Haywood (Center), Caron Butler (Small Forward), Gilbert Arenas (Shooting Guard), and Antonio Daniels (Point Guard). Please tell which position Jamison playes?
Ummm...Marion plays on a team with Udonis Haslem (Center), James Jones (Small Forward, I don't count rookies, and Beasley's most likely a small forward anyway), Dwayne Wade (Shooting Guard), and Marcus Banks (Point Guard). Please tell me what position Marion plays?
And Brandon Bass played backup center for Dallas after Diop was traded away, and power forward when he was on the court with Dampier.
Plus you rank Leon Powe as the 7th best power forward on the list. Sorry Nate, you may be Bleacher Report's stupidest poster ever.
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Stephane Morneau 10 months ago
Good stuff, good read, but I think you've neglected some real good role players out there like PJ Brown (was he on your center list?), Anderson Varejao and Tyrus Thomas.
Thomas often plays center in Chicago but hell, it's because no one else can. Give them an average center and Thomas will go back to the 4 in an heartbeat, where he belongs.
And I too think that Dirk should be higher up there, ahead of Bosh and Amare that's for sure. He may crumble under pressure, put Dirk showed some great stuff on the court, even if he's a bonified jump shooter.
Al Harrington should be somewhere out there too, even though he pretty much plays anywhere in GS.
Keep em coming dude.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
I listed Varejao as a center, Brown isn't that good, and I'm not a Thomas guy. All he can do is jump. He has no clue as to how to play basketball.
Same with Harrington. All he can do his shoot threes, and he's deficient in every other aspect of the game. I'll take my chances with someone else.
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nate jones 10 months ago
Who gives a damn about dunks? go to 82games.com to check out how valuable dunks are. These guys actually research the game and back up their points with this thing called evidence, rather than just spouting off opinions that seem to be true based on watching games on tv. Halfcourt offense, you say? When was the last time you actually watched a Pistons game? Homeboy, learn the game of basketball. Defense wins championships. Is Steve Nash sitting at home laughing it up at how pitiful Maxiell and Powe's low post moves are? No, if he has any sense, he isn't trying to perfect that three pointer with a hand in his face, he's working on his agility and staying in front of his man. McDyess is decent in the paint, but Maxiell commands authority.
You're just reinforcing my point about PFs, the only reason you can call these guys PFs is because their teams don't have a true 4. If you put kobe Bryant on the Bobcats and told him he was the power forward, would he make this list as well?
Leon Powe makes the same sort of impact as Maxiell, but to a higher degree. Watch the NBA finals and then come back to me. Pau Gasol belongs in the seven slot, not Leon Powe! Of course, we all saw how Powe got manhandled. Gasol's passing skills and pump fakes had Powe FOOLED!!! what a chump.
On a separate note, resorting to childish name calling doesn't score you many points with intelligent people, who I assume are your target demographic.
Please stop this silliness so I don't have to degrade you further
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
"You're just reinforcing my point about PFs, the only reason you can call these guys PFs is because their teams don't have a true 4. If you put kobe Bryant on the Bobcats and told him he was the power forward, would he make this list as well?"
Yes he would because he'd be playing the four, and since I'd be talking about power forwards, he'd have to be included as well.
The last time I watched the Pistons were during the Eastern Conference Finals where Maxiell had little impact off the bench the entire series, and was helpless guarding Kevin Garnett. McDyess was a strong rebounder the entire series, played smart help defense, and hit his share of jumpers.
I looked at your 82games site, and according to them, Maxiell has the same "Roland Rating," and is just as effective as Walter Herrmann.
Simply insisting that defense alone is the sole indicator of a player's worth is completely silly. If simply being a great defender was an indicator of winning championships, Shane Battier and Ron Artest would be swimming in rings.
Leon Powe had a great game 2, and a useful game 6, but otherwise had no impact on the series other than some useful rebounding.
And you comment on my name calling, while previously insulting me by typing, "WTF google for sending me to this cursed site." If I'm going to feel like my credibility is being attacked without justification, I'll respond accordingly.
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Daniel Black 10 months ago
This comment is for you erick in case you didn't get my response....
Yea i agree with most of the list, not with all your comments but some of your reasoning is just down right stupid. You were a real suckup to David West by putting him at 4 above Chris and Amare, then you criticized Chris's Defense, which if you watched basketball was at least average to slightly above, you also called Pau soft, who also should be above West for the time being. Now even I could continue and rant about what a personally think but the stats speak for themselves i mean:
David West- 37.8mpg/FG .482/3PFG.240/FT .850/ REB 8.9/AST 2.3/ STL .8/BLK 1.3/PPG 20.6
Chris Bosh- 36.2 mpg/FG.494/3PFG .400/ FT .844 /8.7 REB /AST 2.6/STL .9 /BLK 1.0/PPG 22.3
When You Compare these two Bosh I guess also is a Triple Threat, A Diligent Rebounder, A Born Raptors Leader, But Bosh has a Solid Outside Game and His Defense Statistically is Just as Good and If You Watched the Olympics The whole team was talking about his Offensive and Defensive skills he brought to the table. Bosh is Bigger and only is 1 inch taller and 10 pounds lighter, so west isn't really a "strong player" he also the same speed as Bosh who is one of the fastest Power Forwards, and is also one of the most respectful and discipline players too. So when you take that into account and compare stats and this is with Bosh's injury because if i remember correctly he had 10.7 rebounds the year before per game... Well above average NBA elite Rebounding. If you compare the two Bosh Wins by a Score of 5-3 in less minutes in a very tight comparison. Chris Bosh is better as of now.
While two players Amare and Pau have stats that consist of:
Amare Stoudemire: 33.9 MPG/FG.590/3PFG .161/FT .805/REB 9.1/AST 1.5/ STL.8/BLK 2.1/PPG 25.2
Pau Gasol: 34.0MPG/FG.589/ 3PFG.000(none attempted)/FT.789/REB 7.8/ AST 3.5/STL .5/BLK1.6/PPG18.8
Now if you compare these guys its actually funny, cause you said West was overshadowed when Gasol wasn't even on the All Star Team, and Pau was an instrumental piece of the NBA Finalist Lakers. Now in comparison Amare beats West 5-4(due to a Tie) and Pau Lost, but two discerning factors were the facet he played 4 minutes less, was injured, had has stats slightly decline in some areas, and rise in some areas after the lakers trade as he learned to share the load instead of doing it all in Memphis. Including a full rebound less per Game. Now for your list i think Amare and Bosh should be ahead of West in whatever order and Pau should be homing in on West. Because otherwise your list seems ridiculous. And i understand your considering Amare a power forward but he's a center he's only PF cause of the Shaq acquisition.
And with Guy like Boozer and Dirk closing in He really will have to struggle to hold his position and where is Jermaine O'Neal he may have had injuries but he is definitely at least between 20-30 especially with his great defensive capabilities. Otherwise you have a decent list but you really need to work on your reasoning and don't include your personal opinion cause it tarnishes your credibility.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Thanks for the response.
First of all, I never look at statistics to qualify players. Statistics can be inflated based on circumstances, and can quantify, but rarely qualify. Players are great on basketball courts, not stat sheets.
Bosh may have blocks and steals, but can he defend the post? He's always pushed around by bigger, stronger, more physical players because his physique is so frail. Plus, he isn't a player who can go through opponents for layups, meaning that players who are just as athletic as Bosh, but tougher, will always cause him problems. He relies on finesse offense and defense to succeed, whereas power basketball and tremendous defense have ruled almost exclusively in basketball's history.
Meanwhile, West can push away opponents who try to post him up, and is a very smart help defender. He rebounds well in a crowd, but loses a lot of rebounds because Tyson Chandler is a vaccuum cleaner on the boards.
I agree that Bosh is respectful, and is a fine ambassador to the sport, but he isn't the most disciplined defender either.
Amare loses out to West because, for all of Amare's stupendous athletic gifts, he's self-absorbed, and expects too much without putting in the work. Few players in the NBA are dumber than Stoudemire is on defense, and are pushed around as easily in physical confrontations. I'd like to think that Stoudemire's offensive game would be so explosive that I can get by if given four random teammates, but West's is explosive, versatile, and plays offense and defense exceptionally well, hence their places in the list.
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Daniel Black 10 months ago
Yeah well if you'd pay attention to my comments, its apparent that he isn't much stonger at all, he is also a finesse power forward, and is no more muscular power forward, he gets killed in the post also by bigger players and if you watch New Orleans like I do, you'd see if it wasn't for Chandler's help defense, and for his help with the stonger players, he would be getting killed, Bosh only seems to have trouble cause the raptors didn't have another post presence til the aquisition of Jermaine, and when he's matched up against guys like Tim and Pau he blows right by them, but of course West and himeself have trouble with guys like Amare and Marion who are just as fast and strong, I was saying because he is the better offensive performer, and struggled only due to his injury he played through for a bit, and with the raptors style of play the rebounds aren't all taken by Bosh whoever gets it, gets it, now with a guy like Jermaine they'll both be picking the rebounds up with Bargnani playing his natural position SF, and Bosh's passing ability, which you described as lack luster will be shown, besides the fact you called his effort on defense lackluster he is one of the more passionate players in the game, and all though he seems shy and timid he's intense, besides the fact Amare's behaviour off the court and bad attitude doesn't deffer his talent, know I don't like stats either, cause Bosh's are deflated, but Amare is probably one of the hardest power forwards i the NBA to handle, and he may not be skilled on defense but thats because honestly who is on the SUNS? if he was on any other team he would be able to become a better defender. Now you said players are great on the court I don't know what your talking about because Chris Bosh, is a Phenomenal leader and Single Handedly takes Games, where as, West has the ability to do so, but the Hornets true leader is Chris Paul. And Guys like Carlos Boozer are Solid Power Forwards and you criticism was way to opinionated. An where is JO he's at least 15-25 even with Injuries still a lockdown defender.
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Caelan B 10 months ago
erick: marcus camby is 6'11 and chris kaman is 7'0 its a inch difference and theres no question camby is better than camby at the center. camby scores 12 or so points and and 12 rebounds and 3 block plus a steal a game hes lock down defenseivly he can guard most dominiant centers and if camby would play the power forward kaman would have his points decrease by 3 or so points but his rebound numbers would be like 4 or 5 a game which is why i wont be suprised if they put tim thomas at the 4 and kaman comeing off the bench at the 4 or 5
also ive never bass play that much and i was looking at his numbers 8ppg and 4rpg (also 11 and 6 in the playoffs) i mean that pretty good considering dirk plays the 4 most of the game but 20 seems a bit too high in my case maybe 25 or 26 something like that
and bargnani is the worst rebounder for his size but but he he has to be like 30 or something his defending isent hugely bad its just he cant defend the superstars like howard and ming and stuff he locked down antwan jameison in one game and couple others can really compare bargnanis defending to someone like chuck hayes or something like that
alonzo still has probley a year until retirement but who else will they put at center haslem is under sized for a center and doleac i dont think they will put as a starting center unless they sign another center alonzo is my pick and marion is 6'7 while udonis haslem 6'9 and antoine walker is just not the power forward he used to be ever since he got traded around hes averaged under 11ppg and 6 rebounds which not nearly as close as his 20 ppg and 9.9rebounds( plus 5assists) he had in 2003
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
On offense, Kaman makes his living in the post while Camby's offense usually comes along the perimeter. That's one reason why Kaman is a center and Camby is a power forward on that team. On defense, Kaman is a better post defender and is stronger, while Camby likes to fly off his man, is a poor post defender, and is better than Kaman at defending the perimeter because he's a lot quicker than Kaman. That's reason two why Camby will play the power forward.
Don't tell my how his numbers will decrease, tell me how his impact will decrease. Besides, the Clippers now employ a score-first, score-always point guard which will naturally decrease Kaman's post touches and stats, but they'll also play at a fast clip, which should improve everybody's stats.
What does Bargnani do positively? He can shoot jumpers and he's fairly athletic. His defense is atrocious. His court awareness is atrocious. His ability to score in the paint is atrocious. His rebounding is atrocious. He has four terrible marks against him, and his only positive right now is his above-average jump shooting. He's nowhere close to the Top 30.
Just because Bass doesn't play much, doesn't mean he's not good. If I had a team with random players at each of the four other positions, I'd have no qualms taking Bass for his big time jump shooting, tough rebounding, and strong defense, and playing him big minutes he deserves.
Doleac and Antoine Walker were traded by Miami to Minnesota in the Ricky Davis trade before last season started.
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nayfin k 10 months ago
Soon to be top 5 in this list Michael Beasley is going to play pf for the heat marion is a sf now and he plays for the heat not the suns any more you might want to change that
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steve xiong 10 months ago
I like a mention of Carl Landry
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Landry cuts well, he works hard, but he can get outrebounded by taller, more explosive scorers, and his lack of height makes him an average defender at best. If he keeps working hard pn his game, he'll certainly creep into the bottom of the list in no time.
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yungCaucasoid ... 10 months ago
Should've known...if you'd have anyone improperly ranked, it would be a White-guy.
Man-0-man, this articles SUCKS as much as your knowledge of basketball--------putridly!!!
You really need to learn how to let your "psyche" and *emotions* intertwine, when it comes to Race & Sports. Your sports mindset reminds me of Rush Limbaugh when he was on ESPN. Or, perhaps, its like a modern day Jimmy Greek or Al Campanis.
David Lee??...hahahaha...Luis Scola?? You are pitiful!
Please you need to go get *a clue* about Josh Smith & Marvin Williams, badly.
**********And of course, it makes sense that you list "rebounding prowess" as an attribute, then we read a legit 20 & 10 power forward listed at #26 out of a a list of 30 that *you* made? ....should automatically know that he must be a dark-skinned Black man who exudes the Hip-Hop culture. Enter Zach Randolph; a PF who averaged 10+ reb./2 ast. per game as a non-starter ----coming off of the bench many times not even logging 30 minutes per game---- yet he only passes *in emergency situations*...wow!***********
man-0-man, you'd better be one writer who greatly appreciates how this site's Admin. adores the pro-*Inequality Within Sports* mindset...no way you're a Community Leader, if not!
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Don't you value defense higher than any quality Caucasoid? Oh wait, I forgot...you value blackness as the most important quality on a basketball court; this is clearly seen by your Pro-racist commentary. How else can a self-serving loser like Zach Randolph belong anywhere near the top of any power forwards list?
A complete disregard to playing defense? Check. Constant overhandling? Check. Griping and complaining when he doesn't get his way? Check. Settling for jumpers way too often? Check. Never passing? Check. Having a putrid assist-turnover ratio? Check.
Keep hypocritically giving out free passes Caucasoid.
No wonder why nobody of any substance ever agrees with any point you make. They know its all a front to get yourself attention.
Since you've proven this (by praising defense, and then sticking up for Zach Randolph; by considering Randolph a willing passer because of a measly 2.0 assists per game, without taking into account how many times he'll catch the ball, massage it, and then fire a bad shot with no rhyme or reason; by taking shots at David Lee and Luis Scola without giving any reasons to justify your attacks; by ignoring the fact that I countered every pathetic point you made in the Centers article, and you failed to answer virtually every single counterpoint I made---you don't even care about basketball, and seeing what's really happening on a basketball court, you just flame, and flame, and flame without fact or reason, like a Salemite in the 1600's screaming witch every chance they get), repeatedly, you'll get the response your troll-fu deserves. Being ignored.
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Joe Willett 10 months ago
Don't you hate it when people are only out to keep the black people down by putting them at each of the first six rankings? It's just so wrong that black people can't be all 30 mentioned. How dare Erick do such a thing!
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
He's a troll Joe, just ignore him. He's the epitome of Oscar Wilde's characterization of critics with a basketball twist. He knows every player's statistics, but understands the value of nothing. He simply looks to spew hate, wraps it up with claims of racism to get people uncomfortable, and bashes away. There's no substance, and he conveniently brushes aside your counterpoints that rebut his points. Just ignore his mental diarrhea.
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Joe Willett 10 months ago
Sounds like a plan Erick.
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Daniel Black 10 months ago
Exactly. Erick I posted My Comment Yesterday Morning, No response, because you cannot answer my response because you realized I am eerily correct. How About you read my comment above Caemlan and humour me with your response. And as a Canadian we spell Humour with a, "U".
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
I recommend using paragraph breaks to make your comment clearer to read. 21 lines of unbroken text, most of it without periods, comes off as rambling and I generally ignore those comments.
If you think that West isn't that much stronger than Bosh, you haven't seen West rebound in a crowd, and seen Bosh get knocked around in a rebounding scum. You also haven't seen West hold his own with the best power forwards in the post, while Bosh frequently gets outmuscled. Tyson Chandler doesn't always defend an opponents best post player. West's defense and his more forceful post moves in the pivot give him the edge over Bosh and West.
I never criticized Bosh's effort on defense, just his frailty.
Attitude and behavior are critical components to playoff successes. Stoudemire has never put in any effort on defense, frequently makes mistakes, and is more concerned about respect than improving his flaws. His talent can only take himself so far on my list.
And has Bosh ever single handedly taken over a playoff series on both ends of the court? He shot less than 40% against the Nets and didn't defend well. His offense was better against the Magic, but Dwight Howard dominated him and the Raptors lost again.
Again, Bosh hasn't exactly overwhelmed in the playoffs.
If you don't respond to this comment I'll take some self-satisfying cheap shot towards you and assume that because nobody responded to my comment, everything I say in it is true.
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yungCaucasoid ... 10 months ago
Daniel,
"...Otherwise you have a decent list but you really need to work on your reasoning and don't include your personal opinion cause it tarnishes your credibility..."
this was priceless!!
As, I view it as = to me informing that pro-Racist that he needs to learn to let his "psyche" & *Emotions* intertwine, when writing articles. Because, right now? It just don't happen!!!!
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yungCaucasoid ... 10 months ago
Just remember, Erick bka pro-Racist mindset, that measly 2 assists in only one assist less per game, than all of the other PF who you praise...including starters who logged far more minutes, like Duncan Garnett Brand and others. Plus, now you reach for defense as a support-beam, yet you ranked multi-Defensive Player of The Year Ben Wallace, in the bottom tier of your putrid-list. hmmm...either its another example of how hypocrisy rules in your mindset, or it must be Wallace's Kunta-Kinte looking afro and very Mandingo looking features he portrays, in light of the way you think.
So, consider yourself exploited again.
Are you a harlequin who can't determine the difference in what position Josh Smith plays, versus Marvin Williams? check. Are you looking ridiculous when lying, calling Baron Davis a "shoot-first-shoot-always" PG in the NBA? CHECK! Considering he has four seasons where he avg. nearly 9 assists per game, and hands out over 7 assists per game, for his career avg...I bet it's that Hip-Hop image again which controls your mindset to trivialize players' abilities and accomplishments. Plus, when it comes to characterizing Al Harrington? check. Considering he doesn't avg. 30 minutes per game, over his career, and still outputs nearly 6 reb. per game within that reality...including 7 reb. per, every one of the few seasons he has avg. more than 35 minutes per game. So, consider your silly mindset exploited again, and as usual.
And, like I said already; David Lee??....hahahaha...Luis Scola??...hahahahaha
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yungNegroid 10 months ago
Oops, wrong answer. Try again.
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Daniel Black 10 months ago
You know what these discussions as it seems your too stubborn to realize that some of your information is oppinionized. I respect that you want to be a NBA analyst, as a former analyst for the Euroleague and 5 years in the NBA I am just trying to let you know you have to watch your oppinion cause its tarnishing the credibility and the enjoyment of your read. And the Chris Bosh and David West Argument is ridiculous Both of them are willing at Both Ends of the floor and both have a nearly identical body structure look at any picture. Although, West is a more talented post defender, and slightly better rebounder, Bosh is more passionate, better on offense, longer, faster, and all around better at this point. I think you need to realize any other analyst or player, even West himself would agree Bosh is Better. And your excuse to avoid my questions, and comments was my lack of gramatical and organizing efficiency, its because I find the computer like speaking you never speak with perfect grammar, or paragraphs in a conversation. And I only was saying that because when you write an article you should be able to give someone who takes the time to put in a thought and criticism into your article to help improve it, and you ignore it. You see, the only responses I've received are talking about well you obviously havent seen enough basketball or witnessed it. Well Considering your in your 20's and I'm in my 50's im pretty sure I've seen much, much more basketball. Besides the fact he only was outperformed in the playoffs, because of inexperience, West had the pleasure, of expereince and bench play before his first starting playoff round. And if you compare playoff statistics: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/david_west/career_stats.html
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chris_bosh/career_stats.html
Bosh has been a great leader and solid playoff performer, and its not like David West has been great. Even West with the help of Chandler allowed Howard this Season to pull 21 points and 15 boards, Now when you think of Toronto who was helping Bosh? No one. Thank You Erick for your time and this time when you read this can you take it to heart and realize maybe everything you say isn't true.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
I stated in my response to you in my center article that my analysis is very opinionated, and my credibility is based foremost on the accuracy of the players I watch. Of course not everything I say comes true (one only needs to go back to my playoff predictions to see that!), but I'd like to think my analysis of players is fairly accurate, hence I wouldn't make an ambitious list of the top 30 power forwards in the NBA.
Too many times on this site, or in other message boards, I've had to deal with rambling posts, or CAPS LOCK ALL THE TIME, and it does two things. The posts that go on endlessly are tough to deal with. It's hard to look at blocks of test and immediately point out the main points and subpoints if they are embedded deep within blocks of text. It also makes it seem as if the poster can't organize thoughts clearly. Both of these have adverse affects on readers, and usually I find those comments devoid of any real substance.
It's like the saying, "the medium is the message." Sometimes how something is presented is just as important as what's actually being said.
You should know that the two things I value most for a team is (1) post offense (or the ability to create layups), and (2) post defense. Even though Bosh may be more athletic, I don't feel his ability to create in the post and defend the post is better than Bosh's, and I don't think the rest of Bosh's game is versatile enough to compensate.
And the body structure isn't that similar, Bosh is much taller, much longer, and much more lanky. West is more broad, one reason for his ability to rebound a bit better and defend better than Bosh.
My point about Bosh in the playoffs wasn't necessarily to say that West would be able to defend Dwight Howard better, but that it's hard to see Bosh as a player who's "taken over playoff games, when he struggled against New Jersey, and he didn't really have any good defenders guarding him against Orlando.
Plus the fact that he isn't really physical is a detriment to his team's defense. Players often take on the personality of their leaders, and since Bosh is somewhat soft physically, the team takes on that mindset. The only tough guys the Raptors had on their team were Anthony Parker and Rasho Nesterovic.
Meanwhile West gave a commendable effort helping on Tim Duncan (who had a subpar shooting series), and had three very good games (against an elite defense), two bad ones (one of which the Hornets won), and a strong first three quarters of Game 7.
Plus he had a huge first round, and his physicality in the second half of Game 1, combined with his slapping Dirk Nowitzki sending a powerful message to Dirk and his teammates, essentially clinched the first round series for the Hornets then and there, as the Mavs were left with more doubts regarding their ability to handle teams that turn up the pressure and play physically.
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yungCaucasoid ... 10 months ago
Joe,
I see you're dyckryndyng, as usual, and ignoring the reality I posted about Erick's lame-brained characterizing of players. I wouldn't care if Black players filled his entire Top Ten. Remember, you pro-Racists are the ones manipulating what/how I post here, not me. I'm sticking to my mission. And if goes over and beyond your mental capacity? Too bad.
Fact is, that lame-brain fool put weak-mizers like David Lee & Luis Scola, above Randolph. As he uses his covetous racist-heart to falsely define Randolph's character and then, even worse------tries to translate that misleading characterization-------into equating it to Randolph's oncourt presence. It's lame. Its racist by nature, because he only pulls that on Black players. And I'm going to exploit his flaw everytime.
Erick doesn't know how to let his pysche and emotions intertwine, when extending sports opinions. Plus he's a borne liar. Thats why he tries to pretend that no one agrees with my sports opinions, when he knows full well the *multitudes of disagreements* I incur, only started happening once writers here grew tired of my exploiting their 'Inequality mission' in sports...like you. So now? The same folk who gave my sports knowledge mad props when I first logged on? Now hate every word that I convey here. Still, their loss of self-control is not my problem. I could care less, but just make sure you don't get it twisted on why things are the way that they are.
Erick ineptly called Baron Davis a 'shoot-first-shoot-always' PG, even though Baron avg. 9 assists per game, in 4 different seasons. And carries a career avg. of 7 assists per game.
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yungNegroid 10 months ago
Sorry, but you are completely wrong. Again.
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nate jones 10 months ago
"You're just reinforcing my point about PFs, the only reason you can call these guys PFs is because their teams don't have a true 4. If you put kobe Bryant on the Bobcats and told him he was the power forward, would he make this list as well?"
Yes he would because he'd be playing the four, and since I'd be talking about power forwards, he'd have to be included as well.
The last time I watched the Pistons were during the Eastern Conference Finals where Maxiell had little impact off the bench the entire series, and was helpless guarding Kevin Garnett. McDyess was a strong rebounder the entire series, played smart help defense, and hit his share of jumpers.
I looked at your 82games site, and according to them, Maxiell has the same "Roland Rating," and is just as effective as Walter Herrmann.
Simply insisting that defense alone is the sole indicator of a player's worth is completely silly. If simply being a great defender was an indicator of winning championships, Shane Battier and Ron Artest would be swimming in rings.
Leon Powe had a great game 2, and a useful game 6, but otherwise had no impact on the series other than some useful rebounding.
And you comment on my name calling, while previously insulting me by typing, "WTF google for sending me to this cursed site." If I'm going to feel like my credibility is being attacked without justification, I'll respond accordingly.
Dude, ok count Kobe Bryant as a power forward. That's your choice. However, your only other counterpoint for what I'm saying refers to a comparison between a guy who barely plays. It's a simple concept in statistical analysis: small sample size is the best way tell a statistic that may be inaccurate.
For your great defense does not equal chamionship argument, look at each of the championship teams from the last 20 years. Michael Jordan's Bulls stand alone as the one team without a defensive-minded dominating big man. Coincidence that he is considered by many to be the greatest? (Though even he had Rodman doing "some useful rebounding." The Celtics (the Chief/McHale), Pistons (Salley, Rodman, Lambier), Lakers(Shaq), Pistons (Wallaces) Spurs (TD), Heat (Shaq) , and Celtics (KG, Perk, Powe). I don't think Ron Artest or Shane Battier qualify as defensive-minded dominating big men.
P.S. don't get so insulted, man. This is just a sports talk site.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Don't underestimate just how good Rodman, Longley, and Horace Grant were defensively. Rodman was a defensive player of the year, and a player who simply shut guys down. Longley was massive. Strong post players couldn't move him, and he was quick enough where you couldn't simply go around him. Grant was also a tireless quality post defender.
Rodman is up there as one of the best defensive power forwards of all time. Longley and Grant were exceptional in their own right. They might not have had one single dominating big man, but as a group, the Bulls shut people down from the inside out.
Don't use statistics to compare players! Decipher what a player can and can't do well against average, and exceptional competition. Maxiell's good, don't worry, but his offensive game is limited, especially in the halfcourt (which hurts him in the playoffs), and he's undersized. McDyess is steadier and is a better defensive player because he holds his position better, rotates quicker (at least in the postseason), and is much taller than Maxiell.
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nate jones 10 months ago
also, you gotta lay off young caucasoid bc hes just going to troll you comment section if you respond
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Darren 10 months ago
Dirk is way toooooooooo low.
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James McNamee 10 months ago
Joe Smith-Oklahoma TBA's
lol, that's priceless
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Julian Rosario 10 months ago
I like the list overall, but the fact that you disrespected Kevin Garnett by calling him a ROLE PLAYER, completely took away my focus from the rest of the list.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
That's essentially what he is though. He's never been able to lift a franchise by himself...he's simply been a great assistant to other talented players. That's why Minnesota never did anything until Garnett was able to play second fiddle to Latrell Spreewell and Sam Cassell, and why Garnett never came close to winning a championship until he was playing Robin to Paul Pierce's Batman.
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Steven Resnick 10 months ago
Flip Boozer over Gasol.
Al Harrington didn't make the list, how come? He's better than Scolia, Collison, and Bass.
I do agree with your top 3. But the rest of the list come on what are you thinking?
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Julian Rosario 10 months ago
WELL, LETS SEE, i MEAN, NOT ONLY WAS KG THE ONLY GUY DOiN ANYTHiN WAY BEFORE SPREEWELL AND CASSELL SHOWED UP, BUT GARNETT WAS CARRYiN THE T-WOLVES EVERY YEAR, LOOK AT THE PEOPLE THAT WERE AROUND HiM, AND iF i REMEMBER CORRECTLY, KG PUT UP CAREER HiGH NUMBERS WHEN SPREEWELL AND CASSELL SHOWED UP, EARNiNG THE MVP THAT YEAR.
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Taimur Rabbani 10 months ago
i don't think you've ever watched the damn game. or looked at the standings. or read a stat sheet. in fact i don't think you ever graduated from high school,
there's a reason the mavs have won 50 straight games 8 years in a row, and there's a reason Dirk's NBA finals appearance was much better than Kobe's this year and Lebron's the year before.
Much better analysts than you put Nowitzki as the #1 or #2 power forward in the game right now (and duncan is a consensus #3). In fact, Dirk is widely regarded in the top 10 power forwards of all time, not just this era. Efficiency ratings, win shares, finals appearance, all-nba teams. The top efficiency differential for his position overall in this decade for both the playoffs and regular season.
You're a joke and by extension so is this whole publication.
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josh thatcher 10 months ago
Taimur...wow.
I know you're from Dallas so it's hard to be objective but THINK man, think!
Facts
The Mavs have won 50 straight games 8 years in a row.
Dirk had some really good playoff games.
More Facts
The Mavs have failed to win a title 8 years in a row.
Dirk has had some really really really really crappy playoff games.
More More More Facts
Tim Duncan has had some fairly good playoff games.
Tim Duncan rarely has had any crappy playoff games.
Tim Duncan has rings.
KG brought defense to a run and gun team and got a ring.
Proposition:
Show me an analyst that puts Dirk at the #1 or #2 spot in the hierarchy of power forwards in today's game.
Show me an analyst that puts Duncan at #3.
Show me an analyst that puts Dirk in the top 10 power forwards of all time.
Show me an analyst that doesn't put Duncan in the top 3-5 of all time.
You're a joke and by extension so are all of your friends and family.
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Taimur Rabbani 9 months ago
Back in 2005, Dirk was already recognized as a top 10 PF of all time by ESPN. SEE http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2074360 Since then Dirk has made 2 first team all-nbas, led his team to the NBA finals, and been league MVP. Easily bumps him into at least the #7 spot of all time. So there's that.
Duncan has had a more successful career. Holistically, he is proably the best ever. But now we're talking about the best PF in the NBA right now, right? Even this last year, one of Dirk's worst of his career, he had a more productive and effective standard by every objective statistic used by any advanced analyst.
For our purpose, lets use the most widely accepted objective measure, PER.
2007-2008 Dirk 24.6 (5), Duncan 24.3 (8)
2006-2007 Dirk 27.6 (1), Duncan 26.1 (2)
2005-2006 Dirk 28.1 (1), Duncan - Not in top 10
so in the past 3 years, Dirk's been a better player than Duncan. Timmy's got a little guy named Manu Ginobili on his team that, in case you haven't noticed, has consistently been one of the best players in the NBA. part of that is how open he gets playing off Timmy, but that's like giving shaq credit for the ring Wade won for them in Miami. Here's a little indicator of Manu's value, and notice that Duncan is not even in the top 30 in this category, where Dirk is #4 in terms of super-clutch play and #3 in terms of clutch play
http://www.82games.com/CSORT11.HTM
http://www.82games.com/SCSORT11.HTM
want to talk about crappy playoff games? Remember the 1-9, 5 point playoff blowout loss against New Orleans this year? He doesn't have very many, granted, but i can't help but feel that that is a factor of him playing on an excellent team. Dirk is pretty much the only thing going for Dallas, and is pretty much all the opposing defense has to focus on. As a parallel, Kobe had games in the finals where he went 7-22, 6-19, and 9-26, all losses. So is he not in the top 10 SG's of all time? Lebron averaged almost 6 turnovers a game and only shot 35% from the game, yet many (rightly) feel that he is the best player in the world.
Lets just agree that it is absolutely absurd to say that Nowitzki is only a borderline top 10PF right now, when he is by pretty much any applied standard in the top 5 players in the world, or if you're hard-headed, top 10 players in the world.
peace.
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Gus Bagsit 9 months ago
As I read through your descriptions of players I can't help but notice the similarities in your observations as Charley Rosen's. i.e. Camby's penchant for going after blockable shots, Bynum being essentially a finesse player, Bosh being the ultimate opportunist, etc.
Do you employ the same methodology as he when analyzing players? Mainly, looking through game tape and scrutinizing every facet of each player's game?
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Erick Blasco 9 months ago
Throw in Jeff Van Gundy, Rick Carlisle, Doug Collins, and to a lesser extent, Hubie Brown. Coaches look at the game a different way than players do, and are able to scrutinize teams/players at a much more detailed level. It's why Rosen is the best analyst in print, and Van Gundy is the best network analyst.
I've never called Bosh an "opportunist," because that concept is vague to me. It also implies that Bosh only takes what defenses give him, which isn't entirely true. I consider him a talented and athletic forward whose lack of physical strength keeps him from being a truly elite forward.
As for Camby and Bynum, it's pretty obvious how they play the game. At least Bynum has skills which could allow him to develop into a special center, but teams with Camby will always allow layups and points in the post because he can't defend the post well.
I don't look at game tape before because I don't have a DVR or access to game film or anything fancy like that.
I watch a lot of games and do similar game recaps to Rosen based on what actually happens on the court, based on a how a player succeeds, what his strengths are, what his weaknesses are, what his team's strengths are, what their weaknesses are, how they try to succeed, how they adapt to an opponent trying to take away what they do best, how versatile they are, how much heart they play with, etc.
I feel it's the best way to scrutinize teams and players, so long as you watch a team much more than one or two times, as sometimes a team just has a bad day. But even in those games, you can notice general tendencies about a team.
I wish I could scrutinize every aspect of a player's game, but I can't. I haven't watched enough basketball, and there are lots of aspects about the game that I'm still learning about (mostly point guard related and setting up an offense).
But life, as, they say, is all about the details. Learning specifics about a team is the best way to determine just what that team is about. And it's so much better than most of today's "analysts" who make all their judgments based on stats and hype without actually watching basketball.
But yeah, I'm a Rosen disciple and his opinions do have a pull on mine. It's a bias, and it's only fair that readers should understand that, but I do my own work and form my own opinions based on my own analysis.
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marko marko 9 months ago
Wilcox!
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The Truth 9 months ago
HAHAHA. Dirk as the 10th best PF. Wow. Just Wow. I mean I'm debating if I should even acknowledge this idiot.
Dirk= 1 MVP, 3 All-NBA 1st teams, 3 All-NBA 2nd teams, 2 All-NBA 3rd teams, 7 all star appearances, 1 three point championship, has led the league in PER, has a top 20 career playoff PPG avg., has made the most FT's ever in a playoff run, one of three players ever to have 100 threes and 100 blocks in a year, has put up 50 points in a game 3 times, has put up 50 points once in the playoffs. I can keep going.
Just for fun, let me know the TOTAL all-nba teams made by Brand, West, Artest, Amare, Bosh, Boozer and Pau COMBINED. I'll give you a hint, the answer is 7.
Let me put this in perspective for you: Dirk has won 8 All-NBA Teams....yet he is behind SEVEN players who in their CAREERS HAVE COMBINED TO WIN LESS ALL-NBA TEAMS THAN HIM! I'll let that soak in the cavity where your brain should be, in theory.
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erickblasco suxdick 9 months ago
this is the worst rankings ive ever seen for anything. writer should kill himself
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
REAL top PF list. Based on allaround skill, not on numbers. This is the list of the best allaround PFs that play their positions best. It has NOTHING to do with numbers and has everything to do with allaround game, dominating at the PF position.
1)KG
2)Duncan (Duncan had a better career than KG and was better by a slight bit for most of the last ten years (go on year-by-year basis not overall.... for instance KG was better in 03-04 but Duncan was better in 02-03, etcetera. Duncan wins most years) but last year KG was better and more dominant inside than ever although he deferred so the numbers didnt show it, he KILLED it night-in and night-out for Boston the whole year. Duncan did too but not to that extent, he fell off a bit).
3)Sheed
4)Brand
5)Amare
6)Bosh
7)Dirk
8)Boozer
9)Gasol
10)Al Jefferson
11)West
12)Beasley
13)Aldridge
14)Al Horford
15)Jamison
16)Nene
17)Camby
18)Zach Randolph
19)Rashard Lewis (not a PF really)
20)Okafor
(Jermaine Oneal is EASILY top 8-15 range if he is healthy again and considered a PF (as he truly is) for this list)
Your comments on KG are VERY VERY wrong as well Erick. KG CARRIED that Twolve team in 04. It was the first time talent was there with him, so he gets criticized for winning with it? He's had talent around him twice in his career........ results: Championship, and conference finals appearance. Both times winning 60 games, being top 3 for MVP (winning one, DPOY the other), getting the best record in his conference, and reaching the final four.
Roleplayer? I think NOT!
Roleplayers dont win MVP awards. Roleplayers dont have franchises built around their inside dominance. Roleplayers dont carry 50 win teams with no other allstar on the roster as KG has done MULTIPLE times.
Most of ALL: Roleplayers dont drop 36 and 21 in a game 7 to carry their team to the conference finals (vs kings in 04, he hit the gamewinner there too and dropped 13 points with 7 rebounds and 2 blocks in that 4th quarter)....... and roleplayers dont drop 26 and 14 as the player of the game to win an NBA championship.
Get a grip on reality and stop eating up what Skip brainless and the rest of the dumba$$ media has fed you. Get leaguepass and watch Garnett. He was DOMINANT on both ends EVERY SINGLE NIGHT last year as the focal point of the celtic offense(it ran thru him inside, ask any celtic fan that watched all the games last year. He drew the double-team and his passing sliced teams up, and if they didnt double he scored at will. It was a win/win, especially with teammates talented enough that if the opposition made them beat them: they could..... and he also scored thru double-teams when needed plenty of times. He is a MONSTER)......... oh yeah: and the anchor of their defense.
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
Dirk at 10? PAU GASOL OVER DIRK?
Do you NOT REMEMBER THEIR PLAYOFF SERIES IN 2006? WHAT DID DIRK DO TO PAU IN THAT SERIES? DID YOU START WATCHING BASKETBALL THIS SUMMER OR SOMETHING YOU DAMN FOOL?!?!?!?
WOW!
JUST WOW!
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
Keep in mind that im a Celtic season-ticket holder from the last 2 years, KG took Al Jeffersons prior role in the offense as the focal point in the post (the yin to paul pierces yang), and KG did much better due to his passing ability on top of his lowpost skill on offense. Of course the defense and leadership and hunger and experience upgrade was insane as well from Jeffferson to KG, but the offensive upgrade was there and extremely obvious as well. KG was just as good scoring in the lowpost, but much less of a black-whole and much more polished. His passing added a new dimension to our lowpost/inside offense, and his high-post game and versatilitiy was a dimension as well as it allowed Pierce to post-up without the PF being able to help down off of Kev.
But Kevins SCORING is what made it all work. He scores on any lowpost defender, with ease. He can score through the double-team but is too smart for it most the time and makes the right pass. Cuts you up from the inside. I saw KG school duncan and Sheed in the post this year when they tried to guard him down there, and Amare got just murdered........ meanwhile if you threw it to Amare or Bosh with their back to the basket against a Sheed or Duncan they wouldnt be anywhere near as effective. And against a double-team they would be cooked compared to KG.
So Im saying I DO KNOW what im talking about with KG. Ive watched every celtics game the past two years, im a HUGE MIAMI HEAT fan and have had NBA league pass for 3 years now (since the 04-05 season, the 2nd half of that year). I needed that when Miami turned it up with shaq in 04-05, ive lived in boston since 2001 and THANK GOD for league pass!
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Taimur Rabbani 9 months ago
bosh, amare, sheed, and brand over dirk?
you should use your league pass to watch some mavs games. The guy is routinely triple teamed, led all PF's in assists per usage, got his points, and has had until this year more success than anyone not named Duncan or Sheed in front of him.
And Dirk routinely owns sheed everytime they play each other.
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michael wang 9 months ago
y did u put joe smith over Kenyon Martin
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Erick Blasco 9 months ago
Because Kenyon Martin is a loser.
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Waleed Ershad 9 months ago
Ron Artest shouldn't be on this list? And Dirk is number 10??? what???
He is underrated in everything. He gets his points and rebounds. But he is also a good passer. I think he averaged a little more than 4 last year. And everybody claiming he is an "oversized shooter" is being unfair. Just because he has a trait that no other power forward has doesn't mean you need to hate. He has a post game and a game near the basket. He can drive to the basket and finish. He can do anything Duncan or Garnett can do offensively and more.
It's funny how power forwards like David West and Amare Stoudemire develop a decent mid-range game and everybody is impressed! But when Dirk has a mid-range game and can shoot the 3-ball everybody labels him an oversized shooter or 7-foot shooter or misplaced power forward
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Erick Blasco 9 months ago
They didn't develop a midrange game to impress me. West developed post moves and defense, while Amare can get to the hoop from Point A before rotations can come over and contest. If Dirk develops those traits, I'll get back at you.
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Tom Brefe 9 months ago
Yeah Eric, Dirk is a tad low.
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Amar Panchmatia 9 months ago
Your mispelling of LaMarcus Aldridge's name - even for somebody who's high on him - continues to prove that LMA is the most underrated player in the game today. As somebody who lives in Portland and has watched this Blazer team a ton, I think that Aldridge is going to be 20/10 this year. He was around 17-18 and 7 last season. This is the year he makes the top 10 on a list like this.
Honestly, I take Aldridge over Boozer. LMA is far superior on the defensive end.
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Daniel Black 7 months ago
Your list never quite panned out ehh?
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Daniel Black 7 months ago
remember are discussion on West and CB4 and Amare, the only thing Bosh hasn't done better is received a better record, and that is not his fault the coaching and members have been sub par.
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Erick Blasco 7 months ago
Do you remember how the Jazz ran nothing but baseline screens targeting Bosh and got layip after layup after layup running one single play? You should, it happened only last night.
Do you remember how when Bosh faces tough physical defenses, his primary instinct is to fade away instead of attack? You would if you weren't such a glaring homer.
Answer me this question, since you've been a former analyst. How would you analyze Bosh's off-ball defense in these situations?
http://coachingbetterbball.blogspot.com/2008/11/raptors-cannot-stop-ball-and-lose-badly.html
And why is it that a player that you've said "takes over games" repeatedly has no impact in games where his team ends up losing by 30+?
Does getting pushed around by Paul Milsap, Nene, and Kevin Garnett constitute as "taking over a game?"
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