Mats Sundin, the all-time leading scorer in a Maple Leaf uniform, seems likely not to be pulling his number 13 blue and white jersey on for the upcoming season.
A prediction of that magnitude now seems like—well, not much of a prediction and more like reality. It's halfway through the month of August, and a month from now training camp will be in full swing.
Why is the best Maple Leaf ever to wear the uniform—yes, I said it—waiting around in Sweden with his lips firmly pressed up against one another? What is he waiting for?
The hockey world has gone crazy with these questions, among others surrounding Sundin's camp. So crazy, in fact, that true-blue Leaf fans are complaining on boards. Hell, I've even read articles about how any Sundin articles there are.
Let me be the first to tell you it's not Mats Sundin we are waiting on. It's Cliff Fletcher—and more specifically, MLSE.
As much as you Habs, Canucks, Rangers, and Flyers fans—Rangers and Flyers? Seriously? They think they have a shot at Mats? Come on—might hold out hope for number 13, he will never slip your uniform on.
He had a chance to sign with Montreal. He didn't. Was it because he wanted to test the free-agent market? Gimme a break. Was it because he didn't want to make a rash decision before seeing what other teams had for personnel and roster? How would those teams then have room for him under their cap?
No way he would ever play for under $7 million. The NHLPA wouldn't have stood for it. Mats is easily a $7 million dollar player in this league. Nothing short of fair market value would be good enough. (Okay, maybe in Detroit—but they have no line space for him.)
Sundin then got rocked by the $20 million dollar offer from Vancouver. I'm sure he expected bids from other teams, but nothing of this magnitude. He politely said, I'm flattered—but no thanks.
You Canucks fans had quite the time trying to convince us otherwise. They were pretty good arguments too. If he signs on for two years with the Canucks, he will be skating on home ice when the 2010 Winter Olympics are in Vancouver. A definite advantage for a Swede who always dreamt of winning gold for his home country—too bad he did that in Torino in 2006.
Meanwhile this whole time, the Maple Leafs have stayed in the background—if Toronto can ever be in the background, much to the dismay of most hockey fans—with their quiet, but strong, $7 million dollar offer. Let's face it—they know what Mats is worth, and they know he bleeds blue.
He made a bold statement at the trade deadline. Those of you who took time to read into it and see the true meaning would have heard: "I am a Toronto Maple Leaf, I can't imagine winning the Stanley Cup with another team. Besides, if I even wanted to, I would do it from the start of training camp—and not midway through the season."
That is where all of the other teams, mostly the media, started to talk about Mats with another team. He couldn't have given his hand away and said "I will either play for the Leafs or retire."
Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto all know what the situation is—and it is quite simple. MLSE wants Mats, but without a no-trade clause. Mats would rather retire than accept a deal without one.
Montreal and Vancouver are only holding onto the hope that Mats' passion for the game of hockey will shine past his passion as the captain (and best player, ever) of one of the most storied franchises in hockey history.
MLSE is using that against Mats. I find it quite deplorable, to be honest. MLSE will inevitably be able to say one of the two following things. "We tried our hardest, Mats wanted to play somewhere else." Or, "The greatest Maple Leaf of all time has decided to hang up the skates."
Either quote leaves MLSE clear and free to their fans, and ultimately to the people who pay their bills—us, the fans.
It's not like us Leaf fans are used to misery or anything. I have never witnessed a cup final. Almost—twice.
But Mats is being made to look like the villain here. It's simple—who is classier? MLSE, or Mats Sundin?
When the puck drops at the beginning of October and Mats is not taking his usual spot at centre ice for the opening faceoff, no matter where he is, or what he's doing, this Leafs fan will be cheering for him.
No. 13, our captain—always.
44 comments Last one added 10 months ago — Leave a Comment
Jason R 10 months ago
Riiiiiiiiiiight
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G P 10 months ago
Dare I say... Sen, Flyer, or Ranger fan...
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Jason R 10 months ago
Dare I say delusional, biased and as usual, handicap, Leafs fan? And I'm a fan of hockey as well as a Canuck fan actually, so your snide guess was about as spot-on as the rest of your article.
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G P 10 months ago
PS. Too bad Linden retired, and too bad the Sedin twins will sign elsewhere next year. Too bad your new management is as lame and terrible as MLSE. With or Without Sundin the Canucks will still miss the playoffs.
I was going to put Canuck fan in there as a guess as well, but didn't think the Canucks had fans. If they do, maybe they shouldn't based on theses numbers...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/47510-the-greatest-canadian-nhl-franchise-part-one-of-six-stanley-cup-overview
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/49111-the-greatest-canadian-nhl-franchise-part-two-of-six-playoff-appearances
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G P 10 months ago
Also forgive me for being passionate about a team I love and a player who will be representing my team in the Hockey Hall of Fame...
Too bad that can't be said about any of your players... How many Hall of Famers do you have? I mean players wearing the Canucks jersey... not Mark Messier, Cam Nealy or Larionov...
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Tyler Hill 10 months ago
Sundin won't be pulling down any Jersey this year or ever again.
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Brad Falck 10 months ago
iv`e got news for ya pal,vancouver [fans] don`t CARE!!!!, if he comes here, as anyone knows what good could any player from the leafs do to help this club??
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G P 10 months ago
If Mats Sundin came to Vancouver it would be the best thing to happen to that city since the Grizzlies signed Big Country to that massive contract.
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ASR 10 months ago
Vancouver is like the Nordiques... it's great to have another Canadian franchise but no one really notices what they do. At least the "dillusional" Leaf fans have some history to fall back on...
What's Vancouver got... a couple decent playoff runs??
Ahhhhhahahahahahaha
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Nick D. 10 months ago
Siiiiiiiiiiixty-seeeven. As close to the cup as a Leafs fan will ever be.
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G P 10 months ago
At least we have onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnne
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Tyler Hill 10 months ago
We have ten, 13 if you count the St.Pats
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G P 10 months ago
Pretty sure we have 11... But hey 13 works for me too. St. Pats does have two in the early 1900's if I'm not mistaken...
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Yes I Did 10 months ago
The Leafs will return to glory but probably not before Ottawa folds!!! Hahahahahahaha. Vancouver?!? Vancouver can't win a playoff berth let alone a Stanley Cup and it will take them waaaay longer than 41 years (they're already at 36 or 37 I think). They're almost as bad as the Sens....
I love the jealousy here from all the other team's fans... that's cool, we know you wish you were Leaf fans. The more you fight against it the more we know you are envious of LEAF NATION. THE MOST LOYAL FANS EVER!!!
Great article GP!!!! Sundin will retire or become a Leaf!
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Jason R 10 months ago
Just plain sad...lol
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SundinOverrated Seriously 10 months ago
Sundin isn't the "greatest leaf of all-time" or even his generation for that matter. Everyone knew Cujo was the backbone of Toronto's success in the late 90's early 2000s. That's why he was offered more money at the time, and that's why they're bringing him back all these years later. His impact on the team can still be felt to this day. (Unlike Mats who's just about personal statistics, Cujo was actually winning us games.) Do you not remember how many times Cujo saved our bacon in his 4 years as a maple leaf? I have more recollections of Joseph in those 4 years than I do of Mats in 13.
I think a better question would be why should the leafs bring Sundin back at all? He's proven himself to be a mediocre captain in Toronto, not only these past 4 years but his entire tenure. The leafs enjoyed their most successful push in 2002 when Sundin was injured. Remember that? Roberts, Mogilny, Joseph and the young guns making it all the way to the eastern final before losing to Carolina when Mats came back.
Greatest leaf of all-time my ass! ;)
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G P 10 months ago
Name a Toronto goalie who hasn't had to stand on his head?
No way are you a fan of Toronto if you think Sundin was a mediocre captain. More than likely you are an Ottawa band wagoner. Since they don't have any of their own fans.
I guess Mats winning the Mark Messier award last year was bogus. If the trophy was more than 2 years old I somehow think his name would be etched in it more than 1 time.
Gimme a break you loser.
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Tyler Hill 10 months ago
Cujo is back as... back-up, you thin he's going to win games there.
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SundinOverrated Seriously 10 months ago
Name the last goalie to win 6 playoff rounds for the leafs? Because that's what Joseph did for Toronto. Yes dumbass he's passed his prime now...it happens to everyone. But you said Sundin was the greatest leaf of all-time. I just named a time period where he was not the greatest leaf, and it just so happens to coincide with a time frame when the leafs were actually successful.
LOL the Mark Messier leadership award is a joke. Are you stupid? You can't justify a leadership award for a captain who misses the playoffs. (The same year his coach gets fired no less.) The 07-08 leafs will be remembered as a group of heartless losers, led by captain Mats of course. I suppose anyone who disagrees with your phony position on Mats must be a fan of another team eh. Is that how it works?
At least senator fans have the common sense to know how valuable Joseph was. When I think of those playoff series agianst Ottawa I think of Cujo right away, along with Roberts, Tucker, Mogilny and Yuskevich...all of whom played vital rolls in Toronto's success. Mats Sundin? I barely remember him. He wasn't the heart of soul of those teams. Mats was given the C well before those players arrived. And now, because he put up a point per game for so long, we're suppose to think he's the greatest leaf of all-time? Gimme a break! His biggest peak was in '93 with the Nordiques. He wouldn't have even been the leading scorer on the leafs and was damn near 50 points back of the art ross winner. Were you even around to see the leafs of yesteryear? Guys like Turk Broda, Johnny Bower and Dave Keon all had higher peaks. You could make the argument they were the top 2 or 3 players in the world at one time or another. You could never say that about Mats Sundin, ever.
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M.C. Robins 10 months ago
The only Way Sundin is saying good bye to the Leafs is if he retires.
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Rob Buff 10 months ago
Nov. 15 I guess we'll find out just how great you leafs really are.
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Rob Buff 10 months ago
Nov. 15 I guess we'll find out just how great you leafs really are.
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Yes I Did 10 months ago
AAAAAaaaahhhhhh hahahahahahahahaha I'm going to tape the game just so I can remember an ass whopping! The Canucks are terrible... the Leafs might not be going anywhere quick but the Canucks are actually taking steps backwards.....
Just accept it.
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Tyler Hill 10 months ago
You must be that comedian I've been hearing about, your a funny guy Rob
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Greg Caggiano 10 months ago
It's kind of like the Giants and Barry Bonds.
With or without the superstar they're not going to win so they let him go and start the complete re-build a year sooner.
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Yes I Did 10 months ago
Agreed, although it they already are in full re-build mode and the leadership for another year for those young guys might be valuable as long as his playing time didn't go out of control and others still got the chance. The locker room value alone might be worth the money.
Either way though, you're right, I don't think they're going too far unless they play above their potential.
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Greg Caggiano 10 months ago
It's time for them to find new leadership. When Bonds left the Giants, it was newcomer Aaron Rowand who tookover that role. I'm sure there's someone on the Leafs who can do the same.
As for the Leafs/Giants comparison again, the Giants would win 70 with Bonds, and 65 without. Either way it doesn't matter. The Leafs may finish in 10th place with him and 12th without. They won't make the playoffs either way so it matters not if they bring him back.
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Yes I Did 10 months ago
Sundin is mediocre??? Yaaaaa right. I'm not saying he's the best ever (and I'm definatley not saying he is worth 10 mill a season) BUT why do you think Vancouver was willing to pay that much??
Do you really think it's because he is overrated?? Is that why Detroit and Montreal also were pursuing him?? Because iot would be odd that two of the top contenders just wanted to sign an overrated player.
Could it be that his quiet leadership and lead by example style of play are HUGE lockeroom influences and his ability to consistently put up 70+ points per season while playing solid defensively and dishing out hits (and recovering quick from any little injuries) is invaluable.
Mediocre, I think not, his career and the recent free agent offers would seem to be evidence to the contrary.
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SundinOverrated Seriously 10 months ago
That's right, mediocre. If Mats is to be considered a star than he is a mediocre one. Mats would be the best player on St.Louis, Phoenix, Ny Islanders, Nashville, Florida and Edmonton. That's it. Most of the good teams have at least 1 star that is equal to or better than Mats Sundin.
To answer your first question, Vancouver is desperate for offense and they have no chance of signing Joe Sakic. It's not for nothing they offered Sundin a 2 year contract. Luongo's deal is set to expire in 2010 and they'll do anything to discourage him from leaving even if it means signing a 38 year old at a ridiculously inflated price. They certainly did not make a pitch for Sundin with the expectation of winning a cup if that's what you're thinking. This is the same team that took a risk on Kyle Wellwood with the hope of igniting his offensive touch...Kyle freaking Wellwood! And for all the talk of Detroit wanting Sundin they obviously weren't willing to wait.
I don't consider Montreal a cup contender after watching their last playoff run. There's some major holes on that team right now that Bob Gainey feels Mats Sundin can address; mainly size at center. But wasn't it Guy Lafleur who called the canadiens a bunch of fourth liners? The Canadiens overachieved by everyone's standards last year and they still have a lot to prove before they can get through the east, let alone the west.
At the end of the day hockey is a business and Mats has a marketable name from playing in Toronto for so many years. I guarantee if he played anywhere else there wouldn't be half the buzz surrounding him today. He's Ziggy Palffy with a longer shelf life imo. If you extrapolate Palffy's numbers over the same # of games he has more points and a better +/- than Mats on some pretty shitty teams. At least Mats had the comfort of playing in a city where the management (although foolish) was willing to spend to put players around him. Steve Thomas, Owen Nolan, Alex Mogilny, Gary Roberts, Curtis Joseph, Ed Belfour, Joe Nieuwendyk, Ron Francis, Brian Leetch, Eric Lindros, Jason Allison, Jeff O'Neill, Jason Blake to name a few. They were all brought in to help Mats Sundin in one capacity or another, be it for leadership purposes or first line duties. Mats couldn't find chemistry with most of those guys which forced the coaching staff to line him up with lesser-skilled players. Of course the Sundin worshipers use his linemates as an excuse for his inability to crack the 100 point barrier in Toronto. Meanwhilte, players like Ovechkin can score at 100 point clip with Zubrus and Halpern on his line. That's the difference between good and great. Mats Sundin is a good player. He's been a consistently good player throughout his career. But he is not, nor was he ever great. So why then is he now being considered the greatest leaf of all time? It makes no fucking sense. He racks up a pile of good seasons (nothing extraordinary...no major achievements to speak of) yet we're suppose to believe he's the greatest leaf of all-time based on consistency? As I was saying earlier, Ziggy Palffy was a consistent player too but nobody thinks of him as a hall of famer. Sundin is the most overrated player in nhl history.
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G P 10 months ago
You are comparing Ziggy Palffy to Mats Sundin. You are an idiot. You are a Maple Leaf hater and anything that comes out of your mouth is absolute garbage.
Let me see, of the line mates you listed off. All of them were either washed up or past their prime. Not to mention you listed 4 Center Iceman who never even played a minute with Mats. Ron Francis, Eric Lindros, and Jason Allison... other than maybe a few power plays they were never on the ice together.
Maybe it would've been a good idea to watch the 1st game of HNIC instead of just tuning in to see the Canucks lose to Columbus.
Geez, I miss the days of watching Vancouver ice a line of Linden, Morrison and Messier... those were the days.
Also... how is it Mats' fault that we signed a top caliber goal tender meanwhile Vancouver relied on Alex Auld and Dan Cloutier for too long.
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G P 10 months ago
I love how you created another alias to come on here and complain about Mats... Use your real account, pussy
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SundinOverrated Seriously 10 months ago
What "other alias" are you talking about? Be specific, otherwise people might suspect we're the same person faking an argument to generate more traffic for this shitty article. At least that would make sense.
I'll bet you paid 300 bucks for an Alex Mogilny jersey on ebay. All the talk that Mats never had a quality linemate goes out the window with that, and I never said Ron Francis played on the first line you idiot. Learn to read. Francis was brought in for his leadership to aide the so-called "cornerstone" that was Mats Sundin.
There's nothing wrong with my Palffy analogy either. Mats is a 6'5 player with the heart of a 5'10 player. Being the leaf-centric fan you are I'm surprised you've even heard of Ziggy Palffy. If he played in Toronto you'd be cramming for a hall of fame ballot no doubt.
Back on topic...you said Mats Sundin was the greatest leaf of all-time. Name one standout year. ONE playoff series where he was the #1 star. You can't because he never was. The Nordiques traded Sundin with the understanding that he wasn't good enough to maintain a 1st or 2nd line position with Sakic and Forsberg in their system. LOL they traded Mats Sundin to make room for an unproven Forsberg who hadn't even played a game in the nhl yet. That's how positive they were he would turn out better than Sundin. 2 stanley cups later and hindsight 20/20 they were right. There was a time when you could make the argument that Forsberg was the best player in the league. You could NEVER make that argument for Sundin because Mats Sundin is the most overrated player in nhl history. I suppose you think I"m an avalanche fan now? If I said Bure was better than Sundin, would that make me a Canuck, Panther or Rangers fan? I love how you diss other teams in an attempt to get back at me. If you want to diss my favourite team you're more than welcome. Hell I do it all the time.
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ASR 10 months ago
Ya, sure... Sundin is totally overrated. So are all the other player who have 1300 points + and flirt with a 1 point average... you know, those shit players like Stan Mikita, Luc Robataille, Doug Gilmour, Ron Francis, Brett Hull, Dave Andreychuck, Mike Modano, Jeremy Roenick, Darryl Sittler, and Sergei Federov.
Those guys are waaaaayyyy overrated.
Sundin scores his average again.... he passes Guy Lafleur, Jarri Kurri, and Brett Hull to become 18th all time scoring leader. Totally not worht the money and again... wwwaaaayyyy overrated.
Add to that a great leadership presence and media handler and you've got a total waste of money.
Come on buddy, get a life.
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SundinOverrated Seriously 10 months ago
Guy Lafleur = 5 time stanley cup champion, 2 time Hart Trophy Winner, 3 time Art Ross Trophy recipient and 1977 nhl playoff MVP.
Jari Kurri = 5 time stanley cup champion, 1986 nhl goal scoring leader and 1 of only 8 players in nhl history to score 70 goals in a season.
Brett Hull = 2 time stanley cup champion, 3 time nhl goal scoring leader, 1991 Hart Trophy and Lester B recipient for most outstanding player, and one of only 3 players in nhl history to crack the 80 goal mark.
Mats Sundin = 0 stanley cups, a crap load of 70 point seasons and a bullshit Mark Messier Leadership award that nobody cares about. What's the criteria for that award anyways? Sundin was the captain of a ship in complete turmoil whose coach was about to get mutinied. He refused to waive his no trade clause, goes down with the ship of losers and wins a leadership award? HAHAHA! You gotta be kidding me!!! Only in Toronto. You're telling me this guy ain't the most overrated player in nhl history?
I ask you again....name ONE time period during the Sundin era where you could say "now that is the greatest maple leaf of all-time". And I don't mean one goal or one game specifically. I'm talking about a culminative series of events that would lead you to think this way. The Leafs sucked BALLS under Mats Sundin's leadership before Curtis Joseph arrived in '98-99. We went from pretenders to contenders overnight. Nobody thought Mats Sundin was the shit back then. We missed the playoffs 2 years in a row under his leadership and enjoyed what was at the time one of the greatest single season turnarounds in history. We met the Flyers in the first round that year. Joseph stood on his head all series long, killed FIVE consecutive penalties in the final game and shut them out. Then we have all those wonderful memories against Ottawa. Remember 2001? Joseph gives up 3 goals the whole freaking series and we end up sweeping the heavily favoured sens. 2002 comes along and Mats injures himself. No problem. We get by the Islanders with a little help from Darcy and Gary. Then we meet Ottawa for the 3rd consecutive year and Roberts once again shows his true colours. This was probably the only year that Cujo wasn't our playoff MVP. Roberts was simply amazing, and Mogilny to his credit was scoring timely goals. I have no such recollections from the so-called "greatest" leaf of all-time. Yeah he scored the occasional goal here and there. Like that late period goal against Carolina where we ended up blowing it in overtime. Or those 2 third period goals against Philly which were simply in vain. That's what I mean. Mats Sundin was not "the guy" when we were at our best and winning. So how can he be the greatest leaf of all-time?
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steve scott 10 months ago
what a crock of @#$%@ , no one nows what matts sundin is doing not even mats sundin, and further more toronto has 'nt had a decent team since doug gilmore and wendel clark. and as far as a storied history its ancient history, about 1967 think thats the last year they went to the final or maybe 76 when sitler broke the points record for single game on what was still a crappy team. like a said ancient history, curtis joseph did't suceed but had the right idea, get out of toronto to win a cup
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G P 10 months ago
How many Alias' do you have?
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steve scott 10 months ago
usual toronto fan thinks there can only be one person in the world who does' nt like the leafs lol
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Jason R 10 months ago
Yeah pretty much everyone outside of Toronto see's them for the joke they are...lol
"But we're Toronto, everyone loves us!"
No, the smiles you see are everyone laughing at you actually...lol
That's said both the arguing bafoons are wrong. Sundin is neither the greatest Leaf or completely over rated. He's a very good player. plain and simple. Great, no, very good, yes. And this article is still shite.
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Larry D 10 months ago
Sundin is a great player, and maybe he is the greatest Leaf, but look what they have to compare him too.
Big deal.
I somehow doubt Brett Hull, Mike Modano, or Guy Lafleur can only be considered good players. Any player who is in the top 50 NHL scorers of all time.
Still. Sundin hasn't won a cup, nor has he won any personal trophies, so I see the argument. But again... Toronto is terrible and has been terrible for a long time. Who have they ever had that has been dominant? At any stage of their career.
It's all Toronto media hype and who cares what Sundin does.
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G P 10 months ago
I don't mind the argument about Sundin not being a great player, or even the greatest player. I love arguing it.
But to call the article shit because a fan writes a fictional, comment, editorial piece on why he thinks Sundin is holding back is just plain ignorant. Especially from some jack ass who hasn't written anything, or who doesn't even have the time to fill out any part of his bio.
Bring on the argument, I will argue it until I am blue in the face (sorry for the pun) But to insult a fan for loving a team, and player who has been the face of his franchise for 13 years is retarded.
Almost as retarded as being a fan of Vancouver. LOL
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steve scott 10 months ago
i just don't think that anyone knows what sundin is doing yet i don' t think even sundin knows what he's doing. Your article comes of with a snideness typical of a leaf fan, almost sounds like an add for the maple leafs, that said what ever i or anyone said about your article it seems to have gotten a a lot of response. as far as sundin goes i think he's a great player, consistantly a point a game for years(by the way there are quite a few point a game players in the league) and believe he will help what ever franchise (if any ) he goes to. Also to my knowledge sundin has not said no thanks to any teams or offers as of yet.
by the way it would be more retarded for me to be a leaf fan living vancouver for years. so i'll continue to be a retarded canucks fan and you continue to be a retarded leafs fan thats what makes things interesting.
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Jason R 10 months ago
I think my point was just made for me. Exactly, large portions of your article are FICTION. I didn't know this was story time with "G"? I was under the understanding that this was a place to write articles/commentary of opinions and facts/information about the very real and non-fictional world of sports and in this particular instance, hockey.
At least you ADMITTEDd your shite article was fiction though, I'll give you credit for that.
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jazzy t 10 months ago
heyy articall is greatt, yeh mats is one of the greatest players of all time
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Jim Linky 10 months ago
well i do not think it is fair to villify MLSE in this case. Fletcher is just being a good exec, instead of waiting for Mats he is saying "here is the offer, we have the cap space, come see me if you want in again." but he is also not going to bank anything on sundin's indecisiveness, so really MLSE has done nothing wrong, everything Sundin suffered last year was due to media speculation and prying, Fletcher gave Sundin the choice, put in on the table and like he is right now, he waited for his decision. As a club they have every right to ask Sundin if he wants to waive and if he doesnt thats his choice. Now they have offered him a raise from last year and said they'l like him back, the indecisiveness of sundin has nothing to do with any fault of MLSE in this. I've found that they have taken every proper step.
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