Some people are going to call me crazy here—and maybe I am—but I'm increasingly feeling the New York Knicks, Denver Nuggets, and Los Angeles Clippers—or two of the three—are soon to pull off a big deal that could involve names such as Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, Marcus Camby or David Lee.
Of course, I have no proof any deal is imminent; however, a look at each team's recent moves leaves a lot of head scratching and wondering.
The Nuggets have all but publicly said they plan to dismantle their team and start over. They traded their only good big man, Marcus Camby, to the Clippers for nothing—a future second round pick—and let quality back-up, fan favorite Eduardo Najera walk off without an offer.
Then they went out and signed wacko Chris Anderson and traded for Renaldo Balkman. Go to any Nuggets' message board online and you'll see many of their fans are pissed.
These moves leave the Nuggets with the following players under contract: Carmelo Anthony, Iverson, Chucky Atkins, Kenyon Martin, Nene, Steven Hunter, Linas Kleiza, Anderson, and Anthony Carter. Iverson, Atkins, Anderson and Carter are all free agents at year's end who are unlikely to return. J.R. Smith is a restricted free agent and Nuggets' brass has said they will match any offer.
Why would the Nuggets send off Camby for nothing when they know Martin and Nene will visit the IR as early as their next sudden movement? Since joining the Nuggets, Martin has only appeared in 49 percent of his team's games. Nene, in the past four seasons, has appeared in only 41 percent of the games. Making matters worse is the fact these guys might hold the two most untradeable contracts in the league.
Martin is owed roughly $45 million over the next three seasons. Nene is on the hook for four more years and $43 million. What's going on here? Do the Nuggets actually believe these guys are good enough to play big roles, and that they'll hold up physically?
The Clippers are also in a weird situation. Fans were psyched about a Baron Davis-Elton Brand combo, but that was before Brand left for greener pastures. Management responded by contacting the Knicks about adding Zach Randolph, a move that would make sense for both clubs. But as rumored, the Clips' offer of a second round pick wasn't good enough to convince Knicks' GM Donnie Walsh.
The Clippers then turned their attention to Denver and traded for Camby, a move that still doesn't make a lot of sense—a Camby-Chris Kaman pairing would be odd and this team has a greater need for a dynamic two-guard.
I wrote last Friday how I felt the Clippers might have made the Camby move—Camby, by the way, wants out of L.A.—to return to the Knicks with a different offer for Randolph and possibly others. I feel, without a doubt, the two teams are talking.
Adding to the situation now is the latest trade between the Nuggets and Knicks. The Knicks traded Balkman for nobodies Taureen Green, Bobby Jones, and a future second-rounder. It is expected both Green and Jones will be released. Certainly, this move wasn't about money because Balkman only makes $1.3 million. Apparently, the move was to create roster space. Roster space for what?
So within the past two and a half weeks, we've witnessed:
- The Clippers make a trade offer to the Knicks for a player they covet.
- The Clippers make a trade with the Nuggets for a player they don't need, but whom the Knicks do.
- The Knicks make a small trade with the Nuggets just to create space.
Furthermore, when you look at the rosters of both teams and players' salaries, you can't help but notice that both Iverson and Marbury are both free-agents-to-be who will earn exactly the same dollar amount in salary—just under $21 million—next season. Hmm...
The Knicks need a defensive center that can rebound and run. The Clippers need a low-post scorer and a dynamic two-guard. The Nuggets need to shed payroll and get something for Iverson before he walks for nothing—a point guard would be ideal. Could a three-team deal be in the works?
The Nuggets could get Marbury (expiring contract and point guard—better fit with Carmelo), David Lee, Tim Thomas, a future first round pick (Knicks), and cash (from the Knicks—about $2.5 million).
The Clippers could get both Randolph (scoring forward they covet) and Jamal Crawford (dynamic two who would be entertaining alongside Davis).
The Knicks could get Camby (defensive center who rebounds and can run the floor), Iverson (expiring contract that would reinvigorate the fans in New York) and a future second round pick from the Nuggets.
The teams have been communicating and all of the details seem to indicate something of this nature is not only possible but brewing.
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23 days ago
"Camby, by the way, wants out of L.A"
This indicates otherwise.
http://www.nba.com/clippers/news/mcamby_pc_080721.html
from 23 days ago
Good catch, Joe. Last I heard Camby was unhappy. Maybe he doesn't want out of L.A.
Then again, he's just going through the motions right now. They introduced him as a new player--it's not like he's going to do or say something controversial.
Either way, he fact the Nuggets dealt him for nothing leads me to believe a bigger deal is coming. I could totally be wrong, but I don't think so.
23 days ago
I said weeks ago that an Iverson for Marbury deal would benefit both teams.
from 23 days ago
Iverson for Marbury isn't even a reality. It's not close skill wise
23 days ago
Actually, I'm quite pleased with what the Nuggets have done this offseason.
By swapping first round picks with the Bobcats, it gives the Nuggets more time to accurately scout the exact position they need such as Center or a point guard and they have 2 first round picks to select two future stars.
In the Camby trade, they gained major cap space, prepping themselves for the 09 offseason.
By signing Chris Andersen, the Nuggets gained a player looking to redeem not only himself in terms of skills, but also personal image and reputation. The Nuggets also only signed him for a year, as a short term rental until the 2009 NBA Draft and offseason.
By signing Dahntay Jones, Denver found a quick, low-cost, replacement for J.R. Smith, saving them about $5 million, Smith's asking price. Jones is also looking to prove himself to the league this upcoming season.
In the Renaldo Balkman trade they got rid off $2 million worth of salary while only taking back $1.2 million in return and they will also receive about another $2 million for the cash portion of the deal.
Expect more promising changes for the Denver Nuggets.
from 23 days ago
Sean... talk to some Nuggets fans. Look around on here at some of posts, as well. No Nuggets fan is happy with the decisions this team has made recently. I mean, really, why in the world would they deal Marcus Camby for a second round pick? That's crazy. It's not like Camby makes a lot of money. They shaved about $8 million off the cap. Kenyon Martin meanwhile makes like $15 million. That's the albatross contract you want to get rid of--not Camby's.
The draft means little these days. It's not like back back in the 80's and 90's when a quality contributing guy like Latrell Sprewell would get drafted in the late first round. Now, if you're not drafted in the top five or six, the chances of you ever even being starter's material comes into question. I mean, Adam Morrison went, what, fourth? If it were 1990, Morrison would have gone 34th.
So unless you get a really good pick during a year when the draft is strong, the draft is a complete crapshoot.
The Nuggets gave away Camby, let Najera walk, are about to potentially screw up re-signing JR Smith; Iverson is in a walk year. And what do they do? Re-sign Anthony Carter, sign Chris Anderson, sign Dahntay Jones and trade for Renaldo Balkman.
Of course, we should expect more moves... but if that Camby deal is any indication, something bigger is coming. I personally think the Nuggets are going to do what the Nets are doing... and that's gutting their team with hope of being in a good position to retool in two years. No Nuggets fan is happy about that.
You're optimistic... we'll see. Thanks for stopping by Sean.
from 23 days ago
Sean, I think the difference between your optimism and most of Denver's pessimism is the 2008-2009 season's prospect.
If the Nuggets are renting players as you say, what hope is there for the Baby Blue's to compete? The amount of cash they have accumulated through trades is remarkable and is something to covet, but nothing can happen until this next season is through.
Are the Nuggets conceding the season already? Do the Nuggets need to start scouting lottery picks? Nothing they have done this year is going to push them beyond what they accomplished last season. Frankly, I'm not sure that anything they did gets them back to where they were.
I enjoy your take on the Nuggets and hold you in high regard on the topic, but I'm not sure I can completely agree here. At least not for this season.
from 23 days ago
I totally agree with you Sean. As much as I love Camby, the Nuggets needed a center with more in his offensive arsenal than an 18 foot jumper. He's an overrated defender that was nonexistent on the offensive glass. Obviously it would have been nice to move Kenyon's contract but no team would go near a player getting paid that much with two bum knees. The nuggets are going to be better this season without Camby and they're gonna be in a great position after next season to put a solid team around Melo. Balkman and the Bird Man were great pickups who can grab offensive boards and are going to more than make up for the loss of Eddie Najera. I feel bad for Camby, but it's ultimately a good move for Denver.
23 days ago
Iverson for Marbury might actually make the entirety of "Around the Horn" simultaneously explode. I'm pro this idea.
On a philosophical level, if you'll allow it Mr. Train, this would be the anti-Dad trade of which I have always dreamed. Ever since these two guys rose to stardom, my father has been completely conflicted on professional basketball-- is it because the NBA is a league of thugs or a league of talented black men that irks my father into actually saying that college basketball is better than pro? With this story, I can investigate his true feelings on the matter-- Iverson being a more sympathetic character in his latter years in the league and Marbury being a non-issue last year has let him praise the league again. If this trade brings the two players into everyday news again, I can study the reactions.
Is it racism that made him turn, or was the love of old school basketball that strong? I suspect it was the former.
from 23 days ago
I repeat, Iverson for Marbury isn't even close skill wise. Marbury couldn't make a shot if his life depended on it, and assist-wise he's not even decent any longer. Starbury is fading faster than stardust. Iverson's on a sharp decline as well, but still is way better than crapbury.
23 days ago
The Clippers could easily play Camby at power forward because he's not a low-post player. He's got that automatic jumper and that style of play compliments Kaman's game perfectly. Kaman played his best basketball when Brand wasn't in the lineup because there wasn't enough real estate for the two guys to coexist in the paint.
Ont the defensive end, I don't really need to tell you how Camby compliments Kaman. He's basically gonna defend the other team's best low-post player. So by trading Camby the Clippers would face the same problem with Randolph as they would have with Brand. I'm guessing that when the Clippers offered to take Randolph that they never would have believed the Nuggets would have offered them Camby.
The rumor is that the Knicks turned it down because the Clippers wanted them to take back Brevin Knight's contract and they didn't want to. Walsh thinks that D'antoni will increase Randolph's value.
So the Nuggets definitely called the Clippers about Camby and not the other way around. The Clippers won't trade Camby. He's a dream come true for them. A great defensive player that creates space for Kaman and he has a cap-friendly contract that expires in 2010 when the Clippers are suddenly the league's biggest player. By not having to re-sign Brand or Maggette and getting Camby, the Clippers will have Baron, Kaman, Thornton and Gordon under contract with a lot of cap space.
Say what you want about the Clips not being a realistic destination for free agents but LeBron would leave behind the greatest legacy if he could turn the Clippers into a World Champion. They're not the Lakers but they also play in the 2nd largest media market in the country.
I'm not even a Clipper fan. I'm a Laker fan.
Good read. Keep up the good work.
from 23 days ago
Andrew... answer me this: Why did the Nuggets trade Camby away for nothing? To free up $8 million in cap space?
And it appears the Clippers were the instigators. First, Brand ditched them creating a vacancy at power forward. Then it was reported they had offered the Knicks a second rounder for Randolph. You think, upon hearing that, the Nuggets offered up Camby?
It's possible. To me, I think the Knicks told the Clippers, "get Camby and come back to us--we'll work something out for Randolph."
But really, who knows?
Someone suggested to me the following trade today.
Knicks get Kenyon Martin and Camby, cash
Clippers get Randolph, Renaldo Balkman
Nuggets get Eddy Curry, Nate Robinson, Josh Powell
We'll see... maybe nothing happens.
Thanks for stopping by.
from 23 days ago
The Nuggets didn't only free up the $8 million in cap space. They freed up another $8 million in luxury taxes. The Knicks own their own network so they can afford to have a payroll around $100 million. The Nuggets can't.
I don't think the Nuggets realized that the Clippers were gonna have enough cap space to absorb Camby's contract until they tried trading for Randolph. That's when the light bulb went off. They probably offered them Nene or Kenyon Martin first and then the Clippers laughed at them until they offered up Camby.
Why would the Clippers prefer Randolph? He can't play defense for shit and he's making $17 million a year for three more years.
Which would you rather have, Camby at $8 million for two more years and ridiculous cap space in 2010 or three more years of Randolph and absolutely no cap space in 2010?
I don't think it's crazy that they didn't want to trade Randolph for nothing. If he does flourish in D'Antoni's system, then they might be able to trade him for an expiring contract, a draft pick and/or a young player.
from 23 days ago
Good points Andrew...
although Randolph is 27 years old, and viewed by many to be a bonafide "20 and 10 guy." So while you may not like him--neither do I--there are plenty of people willing to take a shot on him.
23 days ago
Although I have my doubts about this scenerio, the Nugget front office has been saying they are making "chess moves, not checkers", suggesting something bigger is in the works. Of course I would rather see a scenerio that ships K-mart out of town, but that ain't gonna happen with his ridiculous contract.
from 23 days ago
A friend suggested to me the following deal:
Knicks get Martin and Camby
Clippers get Randolph and Balkman
Nuggets get Curry, Nate Robinson and Josh Powell
I think something like that could happen. Some people feel that Martin could flourish in a running system. I'm not one of those people, but he did play 70+ games last season.
23 days ago
Good Article, well researched with many good opinions, well done.
from 23 days ago
Thanks!
23 days ago
Let me give you a handful of quality names the Nuggets will be able to draft in 09:
SG Stephon Curry
PF/C Hasheem Thabeet
PG Johnny Flynn
SG Tyler Smith
PG Jeremy Pargo
PG Antonio Anderson
PG Ty Lawson
All of the players listed above will be selected in the mid 1st round, not in the lottery selections.
Denver could use any of these players to make to strengthen their squad in the future.
They need a young energetic ball handler to run the point and to be able to keep up in their a high octane offense. They also need a youthful big man to man the front.
You're not understanding that each new transaction has saved the Nuggets money, the main goal of this offseason to be a force in the upcoming years.
from 23 days ago
Thabeet is so incredibly raw that he'll end up like every raw player ever...in Yinka Dare's living room playing Sega Genesis.
Stephen Curry has little to no future in the NBA. He's too small and can't run point. At least Juan Dixon goes hard defensively.
Pargo is currently projected as a late second round pick, which again, tells me he'll be playing in Europe or the NBDL.
Ty Lawson gets to follow in the steps of most UNC point guards (Derrick Phelps, Ed Cota, Jeff McInnis, Raymond Felton) who starred in college but failed in the pros.
Tyler Smith could be something.
Don't know Johnny Flynn or Antonio Anderson.
You have to understand something. It used to be that a four-year college graduate entered the league and spent his first three years learning the game. Now, it's cats right out of Freshman year who come in with high expectations and looked upon to contribute immediately. If they don't shine right away, they start getting passed around and forgotten.
Can good players be had in the draft? Sure. But getting a lottery pick isn't a guarantee you're going to get a guy you're going to keep and develop.
Look at the 2005 draft: Marvin Williams #2. Ray Felton #5. Martell Webster #6. Channing Frye #8. Ike Diogu #9. Fran Vazquez at #11. The names continue: Rashad McCants, Antoine Wright, Julius Hodge, Jarrett Jack, Hakim Warrick, Johan Petro, Wayne Simien...
What have these guys done? We're talking three seasons after they were drafted. Who is making contributions?
With the exceptions of Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and to a lesser extent Danny Granger and Andrew Bogut, none of these guys have done squat.
Out of the first 29 players taken, about six are starting for their teams. That's 21 percent.
So the chances of a team landing a player via the draft who's going to be factor within three years is slim.
Denver would have to get a lottery pick, and even then, it's still a crapshoot.
I agree with you with the Nuggets building for the future. But Camby was owed $15.6 mil over two years. That's cheap. He's a center, and one of the better ones. I mean, that's a guy you retain. The guys who need to go are Iverson, Martin and Nene. They have a lot of expiring contracts... I mean, why lose Camby now unless it's to give up on the season.
We'll see... right now, I'm predicted the Nuggets to be a .500 team.
from 23 days ago
FYI...Yinka Dare is dead. So if he's still hanging out in his living room playing Sega Genesis, someone should let his family know, at least.
from 23 days ago
I feel bad about the Yinka Dare comment now. :( He died? Oh man.
23 days ago
This piece is horse***. ugh.
from 23 days ago
"Elton Brand opted out to ALLOW the Clippers to sign Baron, then resign himself with the Clips. Baron's as good as gone!
You wrote that Phil... was that horse****?
23 days ago
Note: Within the 90 days after Camby was originally traded to the Clippers, I believe NBA rules say that he cannot be traded with other players from his team (only by himself). But the 90 days will be up in mid-October, a couple of weeks before the regular season starts.
from 23 days ago
ABC--I don't know the collective bargaining agreement inside-out, but I think that 90-Day trade rule is in effect during the regular season only. I'm pretty sure Camby can be traded right away.
from 23 days ago
Actually, I think it should be TWO months - not 90 days.
CLARIFICATION
From NBA Salary Cap FAQ (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#85)
"In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:
* For TWO months after receiving the player in trade or claiming him off waivers, if the player is being traded in combination with other players. However, the team is free to trade the player by himself (not packaged with other players) immediately. This restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap."
from 23 days ago
Interesting.
Well, I think the Clippers are currently under the cap at the moment. Also, the deal can be done in two parts (ie.-Camby for Crawford one day, and then Randolph for etc... the next day). No?
Either way, I don't think it's an issue. I think there are ways around it.
23 days ago
I originally thought that a nice simple Camby and Tim Thomas for Randolph would make sense with the Knicks maybe kepping thomas or waiving him. The 90 day rule may push a deal like that to the trade deadline when the Clippers realize that Camby is much less of a defender as a 4, when he is further from the basket, than as a 5.
Are they down on AI in Denver?Is mellow down on him? Marbury for AI is fine with me(as a knick fan) with Marbury appreciating a change of local, and AI being psyched to play for Coach D.
In the trade above, NYK are given up way too much.. take Lee out of the deal.
from 23 days ago
You could be right Paul... but the Knicks need to give up something to attract Denver into dealing AI sooner than later. I think Lee is that guy.
I don't think this deal will go down exactly like this, of course. Mobley could be in it, etc.
23 days ago
Gotta be quite honest A-Train...notta one of these teams are in championship contention right now. Knicks are in serious trouble, the Nuggets never have done anything to improve other than trading for Iverson, and even then he helped out very little, and the Clippers are the second best team in their own city, and the 7th or 8th best in a packed Western Conference, and that's only because of Baron being aquired along with Camby. So to be honest, cap wise or not, these three teams are out of the mix for at least a good 2 years, so don't even worry about drafts, or caps, or players. They are not winning anything no matter what happens. If I had to guess, expect Lakers-Celts II next year in the finals.
from 23 days ago
Nick... wasn't the same said about the Celtics last year before they made a blockbuster trade?
The Clippers got Camby, Kaman, Thornton, Ricky Davis, Baron Davis, Cat Mobley, etc. What if they make a big move and land Randolph and Iverson? What if their lineup next year is Kaman, Randolph, Thornton, Iverson and Baron?
I'm just saying... you can't rule a team out completely until they're done trading.
from 23 days ago
Nick, Iverson was probably the main reason why the Nuggets even made it to the playoffs this season. He was their most consistant player, the only starter that played all 82 games and led that team in points per game, assists and minutes played. So i'm still trying to figure out how he helped them out "very little". I also read that you said Iverson was in "sharp decline", thats the first time I have ever seen a player that has averaged 27 ppg and 7 assist all while leading the league in minutes and still one of the fastest gaurds in the league be considered in "sharp decline". He is getting older, yes, but he is playing the game perfectly fine and seems to be playing smarter and less reckless. If Iverson could probably still be leading the league in scoring if he wasn't on a team with another dominate scorer. So give us all a break. Some of you just sound ridiculous when it comes to some of these players. Say what you will, but Iverson seems to be a freak of nature. The guy just keeps going and going.
The fact of the matter is the Nuggets brass seems to have made a trade for Iverson with no plan in place (as you also stated by saying they have not done anything else to better the team other then trade for Iverson) and are now playing the price. They fooled everyone into beleiveing that they were ready to win and contend when they traded for Iverson, but they weren't. Their FO seems as if they do not know how to build a contending team, Coach Karl seems as if he did not know how to even Coach this team, and Carmelo still has some Denver fans fooled into beleiving that he is a real "franchise player" and is going to lead them anywhere other then multible first round exists. Its more then apperent that they are not committed to winning because Coach Karl still has a job. As a fan of basketball in general, I want Iverson to leave now and have a chance to contend untill he retires. When they trade Iverson, the Nuggets will more then likely miss the playoffs the for at least two seasons in the West and will have to deal with the very strong possibility of trading Carmelo as well. And I say oh well.
from 22 days ago
Good points Jason... I agree.
23 days ago
This would be a psychotic trade scenario for the Knicks. Are you saying the Knicks would give up Marbury, lee, Crawford, Randolph, a first round pick and 2.5 million bucks--for Iverson and Camby in return?? I don't see Walsh agreeing to including both Crawford and Lee in a deal of this nature--and he most likely would not part with that first round pick either. I understand why you think there may be something in the works between these three teams, but the Knicks end of the deal is absurd in my opinion
from 23 days ago
the Knicks woould be well under the cap after 2009 if they did this! They know there not winning anytime soon , but they also know Iverson WILL sell tickets!
from 23 days ago
Exactly, Jay.
Crawford is an extremely inefficient player. He can't run point, and he's a career 40% shooter who need to dominate the ball to score. I like him, I appreciate his effort, he seems like a nice guy, etc.--but he should be a sixth man, not a 38-minute per night starter.
Randolph's contract is awful. He's young and talented but has no heart. This is not a guy you win with.
I know everybody likes Lee but the truth is he has a low ceiling. He doesn't have many skills at all, he's just 6-9, can jump, and because of that is effective on the boards. At the very best, he could be Udonis Haslem, but I don't think so. Either way you cut it, he's bench material.
The first round pick could hurt, but as you can see from my comments above I think the draft is a joke. Unless you get a top-five pick in a year when a sure-fire LeBron guy is coming out, it's pointless.
So... it's addition my subtraction. If the Knicks could do this deal, they'd have all of the money in the world to throw at LeBron in two years. They could get whomever they want. They could be serious playoff contenders within three years. But unless they move the bad contracts now, we're going to have to wait another five or six years for someone to turn this around.
Getting Iverson for a year would sell out the Garden. I think it would be a good short-term fix. Remember the Nets are coming to Brooklyn. If the Knicks still suck in a few years, I think a lot of fans are going to jump on the Nets bandwagon.
23 days ago
Yes, thats true, but getting under the cap doesn't necessarily have to mean that you allow yourself to get ripped off. Getting under the cap only creates the possibility that they will reel in a star or two, but nothing is guaranteed. So, they shouldn't just singlemindedly ship off their assets for cap space. Randolph, Lee, Crawford, Marbury, a first rd pick and 2.5 mill, is far too much to give up for only Camby and Iverson and a 2nd rounder--two aging players who will probably have no role in the long term and totally hypothetical future of the Knicks--and a totally unpredictable 2nd round pick means little. David Lee is a highly sought after player these days, and D'Antoni likes Crawford and believes he could really flourish in the new offense. Bottom line is that if the Knicks are going to give up all of that, they should at least score a first round pick or two along with Camby and Iverson. To me, this trade would reek of desperation on the part of the Knicks. Rather hold on to Marbury and Randolph to see what interest evolves.
23 days ago
"Elton Brand opted out to ALLOW the Clippers to sign Baron, then resign himself with the Clips. Baron's as good as gone!
You wrote that Phil... was that horse****?
Hey man, I was right about the Baron Davis thing. I was referring to the Warriors fans thinking he was staying up there, Little did I know Brand would bolt the Clips too!
Peace, go Clips.
23 days ago
Good article. Usually on bleacer report there are just crazy bloggers making up all sorts of crazy rumors about trades. I appreciate that this one could actually have some validity. Here is what I liked about your article:
A) A trade works for all three teams.
B) With the salaries and contracts of all the players the trade could work out.
C) You clearly state that you are just speculating based on recent events. You don't pretend to have some sort of leak from the front office of the Nuggets, Knicks, or Clippers.
Five stars.
23 days ago
Add NBA Hall Of Famer Kenny Smith to the list of dreadful "North Carolina Point Guards."
Raymond Felton averaged 14.4 PPG, 7.4 APG, 3 RPG, and 1.2 SPG during the 2007-08 season. I say that's a pretty productive season for a point guard who's supposedly a crap shot.
Ty Lawson has more speed and agility than all of the guards you mentioned in their prime and looks to be quarterbacking the Tar Heels for one more season to further heighten his draft stock.
Stephen Curry is next Kevin Martin; Curry is an excellent shooter and a clutch performer.
Both Martin and Curry aren't big at the guard position Curry at 6-2, 6-3 and Martin at 6-4.
Read about Syracuse point guard Jonny Flynn. He was one of the top freshman in College Basketball last season, and almost led the Orange to the NCAA Tournament. He has great speed, he has oustanding court vision and a great ball handler, and also appears in the clutch.
As for Antonio Anderson, if you watched the Memphis Tigers down the stretch, you would remember him for being Derrick Rose's backup, who provided tenacious defense on the opposing team's floor general. The fact that he is about the talllest point guard in the country at 6-6 definitely helps. He has length, he's active in the passing lanes, and causes problems because of his size.
Hasheem Thabeet is the next Dikembe Mutombo, but can run the floor better and is more skilled offensively. Thabeet was a major force for the Huskies last season, and was regarded as the mosr disruptive presence in College Basketball. Thabeet is 7-3 with a 7-9 wingspan and even if he doesn't score he can rebound and defend.
Here's a handful of players that went in the 1st round of the 2008 NBA Draft with lesser skill sets:
Robin Lopez
Roy Hibbert
Alexis Ajinca
Serge Ibaka
In contrast to your theory of 3 year development, look at the 2004 NBA Draft
Al Jefferson, Andre Igudola, Devin Harris, Josh Smith, Kevin Martin, Sasha Vujajic.
Each player had breakout seasons this year and came into their own in the NBA, a little tardy by your logic.
Marcus Camby is 35 years old and was owed $10 million this upcoming season. The Nuggets need to shed all the salaries they can in preparation of next year's major events. As you can see, in about a week, Denver found two players who will crash the boards and bring hustle: Chris Andersen and Renaldo Balkman. Together, their salaries were a combined $2.2 million. That's $7.8 less that Camby's salary and for two younger, more mobile bodies.
from 23 days ago
Hall of Famer Kenny Smith? What are you talking about? Kenny Smith isn't in the Hall, nor will he ever be. He was great in high school, good in college, and average in the pros. He was a role player.
Come on Sean... it's hard for me to take you seriously when you say stuff like that. Do your research if you're not sure.
The Bobcats are getting rid of Felton. So what does that say? You can't just go by the numbers, man. If you were the starting point guard on the Cats and played 40 minutes per night, you'd get 14 and 7 by default. Three years and the Cats are looking to trade him already.
Martin is a lot bigger than Stephen Curry, man. Martin is 6-foot-7, a legit shooting threat in the likes of Reggie Miller. Curry is barely 6-feet and 175 pounds. If Curry were 6-5 or taller, I'd give it to you. But because he's so small, he has NO CHANCE. Look at Quincy Douby... he was a high-octane shooter in college too. He's too small to barely cut it, and he's bigger than Curry.
Again, know what you're talking about. You said Martin is 6-4... he's 6-7. He has a good half of a foot on Curry.
Thabeet the next Mutombo? Come on. Again, know what you're talking about. Do you research if you're not sure. I watched Mutombo in his prime. I remember Mutombo when he was at Georgetown. Can you say the same? Hell, you didn't watch Mutombo until he was on his last leg, so how could you make that comparison?
Mutombo was dominant. He was the top defender and rebounder in college basketball. He also shot 70% from the foul line. He was a force. If Mutombo, at his best, were on UCONN last year, UCONN would have gone to the championship game. That's how good Mutombo was.
Thabeet is nowhere close to being that type of player. Maybe Joel Pryzbilla.
It's not like don't entirely know what you're talking about, and like I said you write well, but you have to do a little more research. I don't mean that in a pissy way either. You're ahead of the game and I want to see you on SportsCenter one day. Do the research... it's crucial.
You can't compare Birdman and Balkman to Camby, man.
23 days ago
The NBA needs the Knicks to be a top Franchise again. With Iverson & Camby they can contend in the East. I like the idea.
23 days ago
Excellent article.
As a Knick fan, all I really want is change.
Bringing Camby back to the garden would be amazing -- and AI would sell out the garden.
However, I really don't know...
I mean, the Clips right now are golden. They are in too good a situation to give it away. A front-court of Kaman and Camby is extremely favorable. Why bring in Z-Bo and his bulky contract? Plus, he wouldn't complement Kaman NEARLY as well as Camby would.
I am willing to be optimistic, though.
Either way, grade article... I can't wait to see if anything like this goes through anytime soon.
Another rumor I heard recently:
-Knicks give the Warriors Z-Bo and Crawford for Harrington... what do you guys think of this?
23 days ago
Kenny Smith was one of the best defenders at the point guard position during his era, don't take anything away from him.
Kevin Martin was measured at 6-4 when he came into the league from Western Carolina, so he actually was 6-4, excuse the past tense.
Stephen Curry averaged 25.9 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 43.9 3PT FG% and was the main character in themagical run by the Davidson Wildcats in the NCAA Tournament, leading them to upset wins over Georgetown, Wisconsin, and almost over the National Champions, the Kansas Jayhawks.
Quincy Douby never even came close to that.
Raymond Felton is underated. Just how good was Raymond Felton last season?
Raymond Felton, Andre Miller, and Chauncey Billups were the only point guards in the Eastern Conference to average at least 14 points per game and 7 assists per game last season.
Are you really comapring Hasheem Thabeet to Joel Prz.?
You are the one that needs to do research. Check out these articles about how good of a defensive prospect Thabeet is :
http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/hasheemthabeet.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/10691-jeff-adrien-and-hasheem-thabeet-co-mvps-of-the-big-east
Even ESPN has him going in the first round of the 2009 NBA Draft but because of his incredible talent.
By the way, how is the research on Jonny Flynn and Antonio Anderson coming?
23 days ago
Kenny Smith was one of the best defenders at the point guard position during his era, don't take anything away from him. He was also a good scorer his first couple of years in the league and rarely turned the ball over throughout his career.
Kevin Martin was measured at 6-4 when he came into the league from Western Carolina, so he actually was 6-4, excuse the past tense.
Stephen Curry averaged 25.9 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 43.9 3PT FG% and was the main character in themagical run by the Davidson Wildcats in the NCAA Tournament, leading them to upset wins over Georgetown, Wisconsin, and almost over the National Champions, the Kansas Jayhawks.
Quincy Douby never even came close to that.
Raymond Felton is underated. Just how good was Raymond Felton last season?
Raymond Felton, Andre Miller, and Chauncey Billups were the only point guards in the Eastern Conference to average at least 14 points per game and 7 assists per game last season.
Are you really comapring Hasheem Thabeet to Joel Prz.?
You are the one that needs to do research. Check out these articles about how good of a defensive prospect Thabeet is :
http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/hasheemthabeet.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/10691-jeff-adrien-and-hasheem-thabeet-co-mvps-of-the-big-east
Even ESPN has him going in the first round of the 2009 NBA Draft but because of his incredible talent.
By the way, how is the research on Jonny Flynn and Antonio Anderson coming?
from 22 days ago
Sean... don't argue to win an argument... argue to reach a sound conclusion.
You said Kenny Smith was a hall of famer. I said no (the truth)...so you come back with "he was a great defender."
You said Kevin Martin was 6-4. I said, no, he was 6-7 (the truth)...so you come back with "well, he was 6-4 at some point."
Do you know how stupid that sounds? Guess what Sean, I bet he was also 3-foot-4 at some point too!!!
Plus, you are saying he grew three inches after the age of, what, 22? Come on. Please find me where it says he was 6-4 when he was drafted. I bet you won't find anything.
Don't go down this road with me, man. I have little patience for nonsense. I want to respect you and talk sports with you, but if you're all about trying to win a disagreement by twisting facts in a ridiculous way to make a case, then move on elsewhere--I'm just going to ignore you.
I don't care what anybody says about Haseem Thabeet. Mike Lupica said KG was going to be a scrub. Everybody said Harold Miner was going to be a stud. Hell, some idiots drafted Michael Olowokandi and Kwame Brown first. I trust my own eyes and reach my own conclusions based on my knowledge of the game.
If six years from now, Thabeet is a contributing starter in the mold of Sam Dalembert, I will apologize to you. But I see "raw project" written all over his game, and those type of players don't get better.
22 days ago
First off, you have to be a Knicks fan if you think they could get AI and Camby out of the deal. Why would the Nuggets trade AI for Marbury and other scrubs? You're talking about the second best player on the Nuggets for a player that will likely get bought out. If Denver really wants Marbury they could pick him up after the Knicks buy him out. Also, Denver has a trade exception that could be used, because like you said 'Nuggets sent Camby off for nothing, there has to be another move on the horizon.'
from 22 days ago
JR--
Just throwing it out there. It's possible, certainly after considering the Nuggets gave away Camby for nothing. They're not going to re-sign Iverson so at some point they'll need to deal him--why not now?
Maybe a smaller deal is in session? Maybe not. Who knows? I never say I know what's going to happen. I never said this is the deal that will happen. Just saying these three teams could be on the verge of pulling something off, and Iverson might be involved.
You don't think Denver would take Marbury--then play him or cut him--in exchange for Iverson, if the Nuggets also came away with David Lee and a draft pick? Maybe.
I don't think it will happen either, although I wouldn't be surprised if it did.
22 days ago
This is crazy. Yes AI had a good year, and did help them in the playoffs. The guy's not useless. Maybe a poor choice of words on my part, but freak of nature he is not. He'll start his decline this year and the nuggets will not make the playoffs...guarantee right there. Don't get me wrong, by decline I don't mean 5 ppg. and 3 apg. We're talking about a former All-Star here. The guy's still good for 20 ppg and 5 apg, but the year after that, and then after that, we'll see a modern-day Shaq-like performance from the guard position. No matter what, I stand by my statement that all three teams miss the playoffs this year. Agree? If one of the three makes it, it's gotta be L.A., but even then it's a stretch.
from 21 days ago
The only thing crazy is you up in here acting as if a player like Iverson will just fall completely off within one season, thats whats crazy. Every year some of you people say the same things... "Iverson will start his decline this year", and the sh*t hasn't happen happen yet...so untill he does and there is evident proof, please stop it already. You mean to tell me that a guy that played the most minutes in the entire league this past season..a guy that led his team in ppg (he could probably still lead the league in scoring if he wasn't on a team with another dominate scorer), steals and minutes played is going to make so much of a decline within a sixth month period that he will not be effective anymore? Or better yet, he will only be able to score 20 ppg? LOL!! Dude give me a break. We'll all see you in here next season, when Iverson is still outplaying his own teammates and opponents, talking about " I know I said he will decline this season but he will start declining next year".
I want you to name one player (past or present) that can put up the amount of production Iverson continues to put up at 33 yrs old...the guy is a freak of nature, period. And just because you are on here hating on him doesnt change that fact. Sure players will decline sooner or later...thats commen sense and human nature, but people have been saying that Iverson was supposed to start declining at 28 years old..and the guy just keeps going. I honastly think its because some people (like yourself) want him to slow down so bad, and thats why he wont. You are on here speaking as if it is FACT, the season hasn't even started yet and here you are already stating what is supposidly going to happen, its beyond hilarious and I know some of those players laugh at some of you for it.
As far as the Nuggets not making the playoffs next season, if they trade Iverson (or make any other BS trade mistake), that statement speaks truth...but the fact of the matter is they still have a decent squad, so its not as if they are an automatic lottery pick as some desperatly want them to be.
22 days ago
Good read man,
I have really nothing more to add except for the fact that I'm excited, err HOPE to be excited, with the moves the Knicks may potentially make. I want a reason to go to the Garden and pay 10 dollars for a beer!
Anyone trying to break down potential trade possibilities should first check them out at realgm.com. They have a great trade checker there that I use pretty often. I actually put in the call to my man Steve Kerr and got Shaquille O'Neal over to the Suns using this website. lol syke!
21 days ago
I don't think the Nugs are gonna trade Iverson for Marbury.
And I don't think the Clips are gonna give up Camby.
The Nuggets should have found a way to trade Camby for Artest but the math doesn't work.
Nuggets aren't gonna win the championship this season, or the next season or the nex......
19 days ago
FAIL!!!
Great piece of writing though.
18 days ago
The Clips signing Brian Skinner could be a sign that they are trying to replace some of Camby's defense if they are going to deal for Randolph. That way, if Randolph's defense is hurting during any game, they could play Brian alongside Kaman, upgrading the post defense... makes you wonder. Personally, I'd like to see how Kaman & Camby workout, one defensive minded, the other offensive minded, a seemingly perfect marriage... but if Camby really does won't out, they may see it as a necessity to get someone good in return for him, but we'd be screwed for 2010.
17 days ago
You know, Camby can't be moved in a multi-player deal until late September at the earliest (due to trade restrictions). The Knicks have also spoken about not doing anything with Marbury until later on, as well.
The Clippers get Camby for nothing... then go out and get Skinner. Hmmm... I don't know.
Crawford may not be involved, but I definitely think Camby is coming to the Knicks.
13 days ago
I'm not sure if this deal would happen. I can't really see Iverson traded for Marbury, especially if AI's contract expires in the magical summer of 2010. I really think Randolph should be traded for Camby. Randolph will score in the post and rebound, while Kaman guards the other team's best big. Skinner is a monster of a shotblocker. Camby would play defense, block shots, and rebound, allowing Eddy Curry to do what he likes to: score. The Clippers shouldn't get a wing because Gordon will be a great player. I guess the Nuggets are just trying to land DWade, LeBron, or Kobe in 2010, I don't know.
1 day ago
Do you have any sources of about this deal? Besides it seems better for the Nuggets to keep Iverson (a better player) for a season than adding an underachieving malcontent in Stephon Marbury. Every team that has acquired Marbury via trade has turned into a losing team within two seasons of his acquisition (Suns, Nets, Knicks).
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