For those who haven't read it, here is Part One.
Ichiro’s praise is almost never combined with statistical comparison. Ichiro is widely considered to be the best leadoff hitter in baseball. As a leadoff hitter, it is Ichiro’s job to get on base and, ideally, to work a pitcher.
Considering that about 81 percent of Ichiro’s hits in the MLB have been singles, the baseball cliché “a walk is as good as a hit” is eerily true for Ichiro. However, the uber-coordinated leadoff hitter has only 365 walks in his career to this point.
One can’t help but be frustrated seeing Ichiro foul off "ball four" multiple times in an at-bat, or any ball way out of the strike zone for that matter.
Theoretically, since Ichiro hits mostly singles, a walk is actually more valuable than a hit, because it forced the pitcher to throw at least four balls.
|
Player (Career) |
Avg. |
OBP. |
Slug. |
Salary (’05-’07 in millions) |
|
Ichiro Suzuki |
.331 |
.378 |
.432 |
37.5 |
|
Grady Sizemore |
.281 |
.374 |
.495 |
1.7 |
|
Chone Figgins |
.291 |
.356 |
.393 |
6.2 |
|
Hanley Ramirez |
.311 |
.374 |
.531 |
0.7(2yrs) |
|
David DeJesus |
.285 |
Today's Must Reads.359 |
.423 |
2.8 |
|
David Eckstein |
.285 |
.351 |
.362 |
10.2 |
While many of those players are clearly not the leadoff hitter that Ichiro is, it is clear that he is far from the best leadoff hitter in baseball. Ramirez and Sizemore are both better statistically, nearly equaling Ichiro in OBP, and greatly outslugging him.
What is interesting is that in the past three seasons, even before Ichiro signed his ridiculous extension, the other five players combined to make just over half of what Ichiro alone made.
Ichiro also sees 3.58 pitches per plate appearance for his career, compared to Sizemore (4.02), Figgins (3.97), Ramirez (3.90), DeJesus (3.76), and Eckstein (3.81).
Chone Figgins, who is clearly not quite the leadoff hitter that Ichiro is, has been willing, and able, to play every position on the field besides first base, catcher, and pitcher.
While he seems to be a mainstay at third base for the Angels now, there is a major misconception that third base is a premium position in baseball. There are very few elite offensive third basemen.
Ichiro, by contrast, has done all but urinate in right field to mark it as his territory. These are all right fielders who made less than Ichiro from 2005-2007.
|
Player (Career) |
Avg |
OBP |
Slug. |
Salary (’05-07) |
|
Ichiro Suzuki |
.331 |
.378 |
.432 |
37.5 |
|
J.D. Drew |
.286 |
.392 |
.505 |
34.8 |
|
Magglio Ordonez |
.311 |
.371 |
.521 |
36.6 |
|
Brian Giles |
.293 |
.404 |
.512 |
25.6 |
This does not include corner outfielders like Pat Burrell, Manny Ramirez, Bobby Abreu, Vladimir Guerrero, Alfonso Soriano, or Adam Dunn who have either made slightly more than Ichiro, or play left field.
Ichiro is playing at a power position, a position which is much easier to find power hitters who would outperform the likes of Jeremy Reed or Willie Bloomquist, who have been playing center field since Ichiro moved back to right field.
Speaking of other Mariners, here is a look at other, “lesser”, Mariners outfielders.
|
Player (Career) |
Avg |
OBP |
Slug |
Position |
|
Ichiro Suzuki |
.331 |
.378 |
.432 |
RF |
|
Mike Cameron |
.250 |
.340 |
.447 |
CF |
|
Al Martin |
.276 |
.339 |
.444 |
LF |
|
Randy Winn |
.286 |
.345 |
.423 |
LF/CF |
|
Jay Buhner |
.254 |
.359 |
.494 |
RF |
That last name, remember that guy? The free-swinging, all-or-nothing strikeout and home run machine? From the age of 27-34, Ichiro’s time with the Mariners, Buhner actually outproduced Ichiro.
Forget the huge home run disparity, Buhner had a .864 OPS compared to Ichiro’s .810. Hell, even Buhner saw 3.94 pitchers per at-bat for his career.
A lot of commentators claim that Ichiro could be a power hitter if he wanted to be. Frequently, the evidence they use is the amount of home runs he hits during batting practice.
Truth be told, on the driving range I look like a scratch golfer, but I don’t think that would convince the PGA to give me a tour card.
The Yankees, Dodgers, Diamondbacks, Mets, Phillies, and White Sox may all be interested in Ichiro’s services, and their farm systems were ranked in the preseason fifth, sixth, 15th, 17th, 22nd, and 28th by Baseball America, respectively.
All stats compiled using www.baseball-reference.com
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about 1 month ago
Interesting article! Didn't understand the English speaking aspect though.
from about 1 month ago
It may not fit the theme of the article, but it gets under my skin. Thanks for reading it!
about 1 month ago
Lets start with the contradiction:
"As a leadoff hitter, it is Ichiro’s job to get on base"
And then you point out that Ichiro has the best on base percentage of any player listed.... okay...
Leading off isn't about "slugging" its about getting on base and moving into scoring position. It was widely known from the beginning of Ichiros career that nobody gets from home to first as quickly as he did and he still does it pretty dang fast. Which leads to a lot of infield hits. A LOT. He doesn't make the prettiest contact of any leadoff hitter, but normal players would have 30 less hits a season than Ichiro because they don't have his speed.
Speaking of speed I notice that you didnt mention Ichiro's 306 career stolen bases. Another important part of being a leadoff hitter.
You didn't mention that in his first 7 seasons Ichiro has never had less than 100 runs, 200 hits, 30 stolen bases, 20 doubles, or hit less than .300.
Didn't mention that Ichiros career .331 average is the 30th best of all time and one of only about 3 of those top 30 to come within the last 30 years.
Didn't mention the face that Ichiro has led the majors in hits in 4 of his first 7 years. Or that he holds the major league record for hits in season with 262, a record that stood since 1920.
How about that his career "adjusted OPS" is better than Carlos Lee, Alfonso Soriano, Paul Konerko, Aramis Ramirez, Miguel Tejada, Jermaine Dye, Andruw Jones, just to name a few.
Ichiro doesn't walk much, you are right. But he also his 8th among active players in at bats per strikeout with a career average of 10.40.
And whats with you pointing out how he gets his gold gloves from the managers, his MVP from the writers, andh is all-star appearances from the fans. WHO IS LEFT TO GIVE OUT THESE AWARDS?? Who do you think should decide all these awards.... YOU? It would be one thing if only the fans voted for MVP, Gold Glove, and All-Stars... in which case a Boston Red Sox player would win everything, but you've pointed out 3 different groups of people all deciding that Ichiro was deserving of praise... so you have basically disproven your point.
I've watched Ichiro for 7 and a half years and I can tell you that he does sacrifice his body all the time. Have you never seen him jump into or over a wall? If he doesn't dive as much as Jim Edmonds or some of these other players its only because he covers more ground than anyone else in baseball because of his speed. Right field or centerfield when he played there, have been black holes since 2001. Don't hit it there, it will get caught.
And his arm is golden. He showed that his first week here when he threw an absolute bullet to get out Terrence Long of the A's trying to go from first to third on a deep single and he showed it only two nights ago at the all-star game throwing out Pujols trying to stretch to a double.
I mean, Im getting exhausted just trying to say all the reasons that Ichiro (who Im not saying is the best player in the majors, but is really damn good) isnt a fraud. Fraud? Really?
Top 10 in the AL in getting on base every year in his career and led the AL in getting on base in 2004. 2nd in the AL in batting wins in 2004.
I mean, what do you have against the guy to try and say he didnt deserve to win MVP on a team that tied the major league record for wins in a season? A year in which he led the AL in batting average, hits, stolen bases, 2nd in runs, 9th in runs created, and first in at bats per strikeout. I mean this is a LEADOFF hitter who led the AL in intentional walks TWICE.
And Im sick of the argument that you can't win rookie of the year if you come from Japan. How is it any different than a player who has played in college til he was 23, and the minors for four years? The competition is comparable and both are considered professional baseball. Who did you want to win rookie of the year? Alfonso Soriano's numbers werent nearly as good and CC Sabathia had a so-so rookie year where he had a lot of run support.
You can make the argument for Jason Giambi to be the MVP (or Bret Boone) and that's fine. It was an incredibly close vote separated by 8 points. But Ichiro won. So what? Get over it. It happens.
I am actually a proponent that the Mariners should trade Ichiro. The next time the Mariners are competitive, Ichiro will probably be on the downside of his career. But that doesn't mean that Im going to take away from what he's accomplished. He deserved it all.
I don't know what him using a translator has to do with ANYTHING. Just please edit that out of your article, what is your point of having it there? How does that take away from Ichiro's on the field performance????
And what do you want Ichiro to do about his gold gloves? He doesnt make the choice to win awards, the fans do, the managers do, the owners do, the writers do. He just plays.
And I'll also mention the only thing that Ichiro Doesn't do is get hurt. Year 8 and never been on the DL. Why? Because he prepares better than anyone in baseball, stays in shape, stays healthy, and probably will play long enough because of that to reach 3000 hits in the MLB.
And when he does reach 3000 and when he does retire he probably will be voted into the Hall of Fame. But he probably doesnt deserve that either, right?
from about 1 month ago
Hey Kenny, great reply! I'd like to email you so that we can turn the response into something that won't get lost in the comments section. I have pages and pages of data and notes on this, and I did give an abridged version for this. If you'd be up for it I'd like to collaborate on an "Ichiro debate"
about 1 month ago
great article, i enjoyed the read.
about 1 month ago
Just as a matter of comparison, I crunched some numbers.
Compared to another player that is 34 years old, Derek Jeter, Ichiro has played in 710 less games than Jeter because of his time in Japan.
But if he had played in those 710 games, based on his average of 1.41 hits per game, Ichiro would have 2712 career hits.
256 more than Jeters 2456 career hits.
from about 1 month ago
I am no Jeter fan, but Jeter doesn't play a premium position, though he doesn't play his position well defensively.
Jeter has a higher OBP, despite an average 20 points lower. And his Slug. is 20 points higher.
As a leadoff hitter in his career, Jeter averages 1.76 times on base per game compared to Ichiro's 1.73. Jeter also Slugs an alarming 40 points higher from the leadoff spot.
Jeter should be moved to left field, 2nd base, 3rd base or first base defensively, but offensively he trumps Ichiro.
I'll email you man, I don't want to go back and forth with this, I'm going to respond in depth to every point you made that was relevant to the article (the golden arm thing was something I wrote, which you argued and agreed with at the same time haha)
from about 1 month ago
i know you mentioned he had a cannon, but i just want to re-iterate that even if he played average defense his cannon alone is up there with Buhners and would warrent gold glove consideration. but he also has stolen many homers in his career.
And i wont get too deep since you dont want to go back and forth as of yet, but I dont think its fair to say Ichiro hurts the teams value because he plays right field. For instance in 2001, he may not have provided power numbers but they did get 37 homers from the 2nd base position, which almost never happens, so it evens out.
If Bill Bavasi didnt ruin this team, we would have a power hitting corner outfielder (last year with Guillen and Ibanez wasn't bad at all) and Ichiro could play center. And then it wouldnt matter what position he played.
about 1 month ago
How about the Cubs as a possible destination for Ichiro, playing centerfield alongside fellow countryman Fukudome! Not much power in the outfield, then, but I could see Lou wanting to reunite with Ichiro.
from about 1 month ago
I'm a Cubs fan as well as a Mariners fan, and I don't think Ichiro would fair as well in Wrigley. I think the shallow power alleys would turn a lot of Ichiro singles into line-outs, however his "power numbers" may improve.
I like Fukudome a lot, and Fukudome is a better batter than Ichiro. I'd much rather see Aaron Rowand patrolling center.
from about 1 month ago
Plus, Fukudome isn't that great.
about 1 month ago
I was calling for the mariners to trade him last year, they were overachieving and the Angels were going to hang on to the west. We could have gotten quite alot of talent for him and we would be in a great position to rebuild and compete in a few short years while some team would still be paying a player in his late 30's over $20 million a year
about 1 month ago
Part of the draw of Ichiro, is his Asian ethnicity. How a player from Japan has been able to compete and even do better than most American-born players.
Ichiro sells a lot of American baseball equipment in Japan; so it's not just about his efficacy as a player: it's his marketability.
With that said, he is a unique player in many ways, as evidenced by his 270-plus hits in a single season. Many Japanese players don't have high on-base percentages.
from about 1 month ago
262 hits
from about 1 month ago
Right. I should have looked it up. It's a unique accomplishment.
from about 1 month ago
George Sisler, the guy who owned the record before Ichiro, played on predominantly bad St. Louis Browns teams, coincidence? However Sisler had a higher slugging percentage, even during the dead-ball era.
Sisler played 1st, a premium position, and had very similar career stats to Ichiro.
about 1 month ago
It is true, that base on balls can make a pitcher work harder, but a hit can drive in a run. Most leadoff hitters generally only leadoff once a game. I don't know what the statistics are, but it's a little misleading. Ichiro also has great speed and is a very intelligent baserunner. That should be taken into account.
about 1 month ago
39% of Ichiro's plate appearances have led off an inning, 64.8% have come with nobody on base.
124 of Ichiro's walks were intentional, all 124 coming with men in scoring position, all but 16 of which had a man on second, or second and third, effectively cancelling out Ichiro's greatest attribute, his speed.
about 1 month ago
Slugging percentage... as a leadoff hitter... is the least of your worries.
Its not as important as the other things Ichiro does.
And I know you are a Cubs fan, and it seems you implied that Ichiro doesn't help his team win (like George Sisler)
Since 2001:
Cubs - 562 wins
Mariners - 600 wins
from about 1 month ago
I'm a Cubs fan also, yes, but this isn't a M's vs Cubs argument.
My point with Sisler is that building a team around a soft hitting player at a power position, paired in the Mariners case with a soft hitting DH (Vidro), an average hitting left fielder (Ibanez), a first basemen in his mid 30's whose swing has been long since he was in Cleveland (Sexson), it isn't a recipe for success. While Ichiro is by far the best of those broken pieces, his trade value and potential to help re-tool the M's shallow farm system is better than the others also.
Considering the money Ichiro has made, and will make, I'd argue that his trade value is far greater than his value on the field for a bad team, which is generally a signal that a team should part with a player.
If I had my choice, which doesn't follow the 90/90/3 method that Howard Lincoln and Chuck Armstrong seem to be continuing to attempt, the Mariners would trade Washburn for a can of chew, pay a team to take Vidro, Trade Ibanez for Javier Brito, Pay the same team that took Vidro to take Miguel Batista, put Morrow into the rotation and fast track Aumont. I actually thought that Rowland-Smith looked really impressive in his start, he reminded me of Jamie Moyer a little, functionally aggressive.
I'd like to keep Beltre, but I'd be ok with teh right deal.
about 1 month ago
Ichiro isn't confident in his english. He is afraid to say something contradictory or offensive when speaking straight english without a translator..I give him credit for being carefull
from about 1 month ago
Ichiro may not be confident in his english, but neither are many of the other players for whom English is not their first language. There is a double standard for Japanese players, especially Ichiro. Imagine if Ozzie Guillen or Pedro Martinez spoke through a translator, they'd be ridiculed and called prima donnas. However, Ichiro, who has spewed some verbal diarrhea in the last few years, is given the benefit of the doubt when he probably speaks better enlish than both Martinez and Guillen.
I guess Sammy Sosa just wasn't comfortable with his english at the congressional hearing, its ok, in fact lets just give him credit too.
about 1 month ago
I really feel like the overlooked part of what Ichiro brings is the fan relations. There is no arguing with the marketing money he brings in from Japan to the ball club. This is why the team needed to resign him, and can pay him so much money.
from about 1 month ago
The reason they can re-sign him, and the reason they re-signed Ichiro is because Hiroshi Yamauchi has a J-budget. A good portion of memorabilia sales overseas ends up in revenue sharing anyways.
about 1 month ago
I'm surprised you think Fukudome is so good. He doesn't have much more power than Ichiro, his average is much lower and his arm isn't quite as strong (I watch all the games and while Fuku's arm is good, it's definately not as strong as the hype, maybe the surgery had something to do with that). And Fuku doesn't have the speed that Ichiro has. He's above average but not nearly as speedy as Ichiro. All in all, they are at least comparable but I think Ichiro is slightly better all around. His batting average, not counting this year so far, Fuku will likely never approach. He gets too tired. Plus, Fuku's making $12 million per year through 2011. That's a heck of a lot for a corner outfielder hitting .280 with no power.
from about 1 month ago
Fukudome has a .383 OBP and is slugging 36 points higher than Suzuki.
Fukudome reminds me alot of Hideki Matsui, who slugged only .435 his rookie year, but has been around .500 the following years.
However, Fukudome walks more.
about 1 month ago
Wow this article is almost as bad as another pinhead who writes that Martin Brodeur is a fraud.
His lack of english: - who cares? This isn't the WWE where mic work is part of the package.
Average fielding in weak position: Oh looks like he won a gold glove in center last year - whoops maybe he can field afterall
High Salary: blame the owner
Managers decide gold gloves: They are the most qualified to give an opinion
No power numbers: Watch his batting practice. He could easily hit 20-25 homeruns per year but chooses to get on base instead kind of like... the definition of what a leadoff hitter should be.
I can do this point to point stuff forever but the simple conclusion is that ichiro is the best leadoff hitter since Rickey Henderson and one of the most complete players today. He is a five tool gem that each and every manager wants on his team. He basically has no flaws
about 1 month ago
Your article is totally without merit and other then getting you attention, It proves that you are simply
not an astute observer of one of the greatest ball players to ever play the game.
While other ball players are diving to make great catches that appear on the highlight reals, Ichiro often makes the same play look routine. You rarely see him on the highlight films because he make the plays standing on his feet. He has the instincts of Willie Mays and reacts at the moment the ball makes contact with the bat.
You state that he rearely gets on base via a walk and that a walk is as good as a hit, does not mention that a vast majority of his singles are the same as doubles as he is always amongst the leaders in stolen bases.
Ichero is a sensational ball player who has great work ethics to ensure his continued success!
I am a 75 year old man who has been a fan since my childhood. I know baseball.
Based on your article, You have a lot to learn!
I have never before submitted a comment to anyone! I generally my grandchildren to be around when I attempt tp work the computer.
Allen Pritikin
apritikin@comcast.net
about 1 month ago
Ichiro Suzuki is going to be the first Japanese born player inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame, period. Of course, then you could just say that that too, is a subjective honor. No fraud here, just one of the best baseball players of his era. I think you may make an interesting argument for why he isn't a great fantasy baseball player, but I do want to know what motivated you to spend this much time and energy trying to "expose" a great player. I apologize if my tone sounds slightly hostile but I just don't see eye to eye with you on this one. He has the second highest career average among active players. He is in the top 5 in active leaders in average with runners in scoring position, those are stats that matter in real life baseball.
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