There hasn't been much chatter coming out of the Lakers' front office this offseason. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the team isn't up to anything.
Ronny Turiaf will probably become a member of the Golden State Warriors before the week is over. That isn't such a bad thing if the team, as rumor has it, is interested in bringing in Ron Artest.
Since the Kings are in no rush to trade Artest, the only way to make them an offer they instantly can't refuse is by taking on the remaining two years of Kenny Thomas' contract.
Thomas is due a little less than $17 million over the next two seasons. That's a lot of money to give a guy that's missed 79 games over the last two years—especially when it wasn't injuries that kept him out of most of those games.
What does that say about a guy when he can't make the active roster on a team that finished with the fifth-worst record in the Western Conference?
The question for the Lakers now is whether or not they can move another contract along with Lamar Odom's so that they won't have to pay a luxury tax dollar for every dollar on Thomas' contract.
Why would the Kings trade with one of their rivals, especially one within their division? Because if the Lakers were to take back Thomas' contract, the Kings would be one of the biggest spenders amongst next year's free agent class. They'd have double-digit millions to spend. If they can convince Shareef Abdur-Rahim to retire, his contract would come off of their cap next season as well, making them even bigger players.
The Lakers' roster can be divided up into three sub-divisions: guys they won't trade, guys they can't trade, and guys they don't want to trade but might just have to trade.
We know the guys they won't trade: Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, and Derek Fisher. The only reason Fisher is on the list is because you can't trade a guy that came to town for less money just so he could get adequate health care for his daughter. With little depth at point guard, they'd also be dumb to trade him, because it would open up another hole for them to fill.
The guys they can't trade list is made up of guys that nobody wants either because of lack of talent, a horrible contract, or both. We're talking about Vladimir Radmanovic and Luke Walton.
The last list, or the guys they don't want to trade but just might have to, is made up of Lamar Odom, Trevor Ariza, Jordan Farmar, and Sasha Vujacic.
I know Sasha Vujacic is a free agent. But what the first few weeks of free agency have taught us is that it doesn't look like anyone will sign Vujacic for much more than the Lakers' qualifying offer of $2.6 million. If he signs an offer sheet for anything close to that the Lakers will probably match it, but at this point it looks like Vujacic might be better off taking the qualifying offer and becoming an unrestricted free agent next summer.
18 comments Last one added 11 months ago — Leave a Comment
Aaron Beltran 11 months ago
Damn! You're a smart dude.
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Shaun Ahmad 11 months ago
Great article. Excellent work.
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Matt Gilmartin 11 months ago
Wow, great article. I couldn't have followed all that, it's remarkable that you can.
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bob mantz 11 months ago
Artest and Kobe. Wow, I'd root even harder against 'em. great write up
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Brad Zak 11 months ago
it's really tough because the lakers need to make a move but their cap situation has made it look difficult...i think artest is a must for them though...they need defensive intensity on that team...also it would be interesting to see how kobe and artest got along...they need to make a title run now...paying thomas' contract should just be a formality
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Andrew Ungvari 11 months ago
They're paying the price right now for the horrible contracts given to Radmanovic and Walton. It's the reason why Turiaf is gone. Don't forget that they had the chance to void Radmanovic's deal after the snowboarding incident and chose not to.
The other thing you have to pay attention to is that so many teams are clearing up cap space for 2010 and most of them will either strike out or end up having to overpay for second or third tier free agents. It would be in the Lakers best interest to make sure they don't have any free agents in 2010. Right now, the only ones they have are Derek Fisher and Jordan Farmar, and Farmar would be a restricted free agent.
There are guys like Rajon Rondo and Tyrus Thomas that will probably end up getting ridiculous offer sheets from those teams that miss out on Wade, Bosh and LeBron. Portland will have to re-sign Aldridge, Roy and Rodriguez that summer. The list goes on and on. Most teams would prefer to lock those guys up next summer rather than watch them hit the open market as free agents. The problem is that most of the agents will tell those guys not to sign extensions and see what they can get on the open market the following year.
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Jeff Little 11 months ago
Excellent Article, Andrew!
I like the Josh Hamilton in the Home Run derby impersonation, you sent this one to the upper deck. Kenny Thomas has talent but I do not like taking on his salary at all, if it can work out as discussed would be the only way to make it happen.
If there was a way to trade Vlad Rad & Luke it needs to be explored but as stated they're stuck with them. These guys have to work hard to improve their games of avoid seeing several DNP-coaches decision next to their names in the stat line.
To answer the questions it appears that Ronny will continue to be a Warrior, Sasha will have no choice but to accept the Lakers qualifying offer and Shareef will retire.
I've got something else for you, what if the Lakers were to bring in a third team into the trade scenario. In the interest of the Lakers receiving more or getting significant value in return for Lamar Odom. What if that third team was the Chicago Bulls and the other player that comes back to the Lakers is Kirk Hinrich?
Perhaps Chicago can throw in some young talent into the deal like Tyrus Thomas. If the Lakers could acquire Ron Artest and Kirk Hinrich that would be nice. It might mean as stated moving Jordan Farmar which I wouldn't like. Just a thought, Andrew; what are yours by the way?
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Andrew Ungvari 11 months ago
The biggest problema with Vlad Rad's contract are that it goes past 2010 and the only thing you'll get for it is a worse contract which the Lakers obviously don't want. They could attach Radmanovic's contract to Odom's the same way that Sacramento is using Kenny Thomas' deal but then they'd need to get back $20 million in contracts in return which is difficult to do. By trading Odom they'd obviously want back a talented player along with an expiring contract. So you're looking at something like Odom and Radmanovic for Gooden and Hinrich.
Luke's contract is impossible to trade. He's signed until 2013 so forget about that one.
Don't bet on Sasha accepting the qualifying offer just yet. The Clippers could front-load an offer to him that the Lakers might be hesitant to match. There are also teams like Cleveland, Washington, Detroit and Toronto that struck out on Posey but might be willing to use some of that Posey money to bring in Sasha.
I'm in the middle of an article right now where I talk about the Hinrich to the Lakers rumors so stay tuned because I don't want to blow my load in a comment instead of an article. I will say that there's no way that the Lakers can get both Artest and Hinrich without giving up Odom and Andrew Bynum. Both the Kings and Bulls would want Odom but for different reasons. The Kings would want the expiring deal and the Bulls would want a power forward.
The Kings might be interested in Drew Gooden because he's an expiring deal and is from nearby Richmond. But they wouldn't get rid of Artest if all they got back was Gooden and they still had Thomas. They could get Larry Hughes but they don't need him and his contract is worse than Thomas' deal. Would the Bulls be willing to part with Thomas to get Odom? Probably.
This deal would actually work:
Lakers get:
Kirk Hinrich
Ron Artest
Bulls get:
Lamar Odom
Jordan Farmar
Kenny Thomas
Kings get:
Drew Gooden
Tyrus Thomas
The Bulls would be giving up Hinrich, Tyrus Thomas and Drew Gooden for Lamar Odom and Jordan Farmar. That might seem lopsided but they'd be out from four years of Hinrich's deal in exchange for two years of Kenny Thomas' deal.
The Kings would be giving up Artest and Kenny Thomas' horrible deal for an expiring contract of Drew Gooden and a young stud in Tyrus Thomas.
The Lakers would be giving up Farmar and Odom for Artest and Hinrich. Artest would have to be re-signed next summer and Hinrich makes $9.5 million in 2009-10. Hinrich has one of my favorite contracts because it is so cap-friendly. It starts at $10 million this year and then it actually goes down each year to $9.5, $9 and then $8 million.
If the Lakers could pull that off I'd be in heaven. It's not so much that it doesn't makes sense so much as that I don't think the Kings would want to see the Lakers get both of those guys. Not unless they think giving Artest to the Lakers might make them worse because of all the headaches.
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Hudson B 11 months ago
Well, Andrew. You are too quick to doubt the possibilities you have listed in that three-way trade. One of the Maloof brothers recently said that he didn't care what the Lakers got, so long as the Kings go t what they wanted.
If the Kings could get rid of Kenny Thomas and bring in Tyrus, they would probably do it.
With cap space the Kings could make a huge play for first tier talent in the next few seasons. The names for next season include:
Allen Iverson
Raymond Felton
Shawn Marion
Jason Kidd
Lamar Odom
David Lee
And if they don't go for any of those players (which they shoudn't) here are the following offseason's free agent standouts:
Mehmet Okur
Carlos Boozer
Manu Ginobili
Brandon Roy
LaMarcus Aldridge
Steve Nash
Rudy Gay
Marcus Camby
Tracy McGrady
LeBron James
Yao Ming
Dwayne Wade
Chris Bosh
Amare Stoudamire
The Lakers may be reluctant to allow the Kings a potential shot at a dynasty. Imagine the Kings' lineup.
Francisco Garcia
Kevin Martin
Rudy Gay
Tyrus Thomas
Yao Ming
Ofcourse there are no gaurantees on any of this, and this is all speculation, but it is still a lot of fun to discuss.
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Andrew Ungvari 11 months ago
No offense Hudson but that lineup won't really strike fear in anyone.
Francisco Garcia
Kevin Martin
Rudy Gay
Tyrus Thomas
Yao Ming
I think Martin is the league's most underrated player and I think Rudy Gay should have won Most Improved Player last year but I'm still not sold on Tyrus Thomas and Yao Ming has proved that he might not be able to stay healthy for an entire season. I'd hate if my team committed the type of money and years it's going to take to sign Yao just to see him miss dozens of games each season. That contract could cripple a franchise.
I know you were just thinking out loud but I wouldn't call that a dynasty.
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Andrew Schiff 11 months ago
It's an interesting concept. They can really use Artest's defensive skills.
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greg pitsch 11 months ago
The Kings would only make this deal if Lamar Odom comes to SAC. The thing how you were talking about Kenny Thomas isn't true. The reason he didn't play, is because his style of play doesn't match what Theus is trying to bring to the team. He is a great player, but the Kings are going in a different direction, where they don't need Kenny Thomas, just thought you should know that. We wanted to play Spencer Hawes, Mikki Moore, and Brad Miller, with Ron Artest. Thomas doesn't fit in Sacramento, and it is actually sad, because he is a good scorer when he is playing.
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Andrew Ungvari 11 months ago
Kenny Thomas is a "great" player? Not really. If he was a great player they wouldn't have drafted Hawes or signed Moore. Sure he doesn't fit in with Theus' style of play but if he was a great player, like you say he is, then he would have played.
I think you're wrong that they only make the deal if Odom is in Sac. Why do you think they want Odom? Is it because they want him to be their power forward or because he's an expiring contract? Do they really believe that he's going to re-sign with them? Don't you think they'd rather have Tyrus Thomas than Odom, considering how much more Odom makes?
Thomas is an under-sized power forward who parlayed one good season with Philly into a long-term deal that nobody other than Larry Brown would have given him.
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Michael Whittenberg 11 months ago
Good stuff my friend. If you asked me, I think you should be the third NBA Community Leader on this site. You know about the contracts and everything.
Not a lot of people look at that, and that's one of the first things you should know when it comes to trades.
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Robert Kleeman 11 months ago
Good article.
I can finally start believing that an Artest to the Lakers trade might happen. If Artest is willing to namedrop LA as a place he would like to end up, there must be something to these rumors.
If the Lakers get Artest, Gasol would be the worst defender in the starting lineup (assuming that Bynum returns in top form). Can you say scared Spurs fan?
Now that Posey is gone I can understand the Lakers not offering the full mid level to anyone, but will they still pursue Kurt Thomas?
I think Thomas likes the Spurs and wants to return, but his silence in not re-signing tells me he wants someone else to make an offer. If the Lakers really wanted to punch the Spurs in the gut, they would steal away the player that gives them a competitive frontcourt. Without Thomas, Duncan, Oberto and Bonner have no shot of carrying the load defensively.
I'm surprised the Spurs have not made overtures to SaVu. Roger Mason is a nice signing but I'm not convinced he is the full answer. I still think the Spurs have enough minutes to add another two who can score to the Manu Ginobili, Mason and Michael Finley rotation. Considering, also, that Ginobili often plays the point guard role when he is the primary scorer, having Vujacic as another option might fix the leaking offense.
I'm sure you love the idea of Vujacic leaving for a rival team as nuch as I love the propsect of Thomas in a Lakers uniform.
I say this after watching the three draft picks coach Pop thinks can help the team win next season. Malik Hairston and James Gist made some nice plays in a summer league game against the Knicks but they have a LONG way to go before they crack a championship caliber rotation. George Hill looks promising, but I'm not sure if he's ready to lock up the backup point guard slot, even with training camp and preseason still ahead.
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lukar lem 11 months ago
People are losing perspective due to the fact Lakers lost the finals. Odom is better player than Artest and better fit for the triangle offense. It's clear Lakers need a better defense to win the finals, but without Odom they might not get to the finals again. Artest is a good player, but he needs to have the ball a lot more than Odom, and with Kobe, Gasol and Bynum he will be just part of the offense. That could be frustrating for him and backfire against the Lakers. Why people want to change a team that is working so well right now? Besides Odom was guarding Garnett in the finals. Are you telling me Artest would be able to guard Garnett? Of course not, besides with Bynum back, Odom defense would be in a small forward, a lot eassier task for him. Why not try with this team one more season, if without Bynum and Ariza they were so close? That trade might happen afterall and most people asking for a trade right now we'll be disgusted by Lakers exiting before the finals.
In terms of Kobe getting a paycut don't wish for it, he said clearly in a couple of interviews he won't do that and I agree. If somebody has to make sacrifices should be the owner. Why the best player in the league has to give up what he earned? If the owner of the most prestigious franchise in one of the wealthiest states cannot afford luxury taxes, he should sell the team to somebody who can.
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Andrew Ungvari 11 months ago
I think the reason why most people want to see this trade happen is because Odom is not a better player than Artest. Like Artest, Odom is entering the final year of his contract. If you don't trade Odom before the season ends then the Lakers might not have a choice but to re-sign him. People would rather the Lakers re-sign Artest than Odom because Artest has the ability to lengthen Kobe's career by having him guard the opponent's best perimeter player. Odom might have guarded Garnett but Garnett wasn't the reason the Celtics won the title. Paul Pierce was the MVP of the Finals and you can make the case that Rajon Rondo or Ray Allen could have won it. Artest could have guarded all three of those guys and Odom couldn't.
I think people are most annoyed by Odom's inconsistency. At least with Artest you know you'll get his defense every night. With a team this deep they wouldn't need his offense. Bynum, Gasol and Odom all do most of their scoring in the paint. There isn't enough room for all three guys to operate. Artest might not have as good of a field goal percentage but he's a much better outside shooter. He has the ability to give more space to Bynum and Gasol down low. The other thing about Artest is that you can let him play out his contract and if the experiment doesn't work after one season you can either let him go or sign and trade him. His previous behavior will probably mean that no team will offer him more than four years at about $10 million per season. Odom, currently making $14 million, will probably want the same amount of money or an increase. Should Odom take a pay cut?
Please show me an interview where Kobe says he wouldn't take a pay cut. The only thing I've heard Kobe say is that he'll talk about it when the time comes. It's easy. You tell Kobe, either we give you the max and we lose Farmar and Ariza or you take a dip for one season and we give you an extra year on your deal. Kobe will be 31 next summer. A six-year deal could pay him more than $25 million when he's 37. So he wouldn't be taking a pay cut so much as deferring salary.
What people don't understand about Jerry Buss is that unlike Mark Cuban or Clay Bennett or the Maloofs, this is his only business. It's not that he's unwilling to pay the luxury tax. He's unwilling to pay the luxury tax for a team that's incapable of winning an NBA Championship.
I don't think anyone wants to see Jerry Buss sell the team. You can make the case that Jerry Buss is the greatest owner in professional sports history. Since he purchased the team they've won 8 championships and made it to the Finals 6 other times. That's 14 Finals trips in 28 years. I'm not ready to make threats that he should sell the team because he doesn't want to pay $22 million a year for Lamar Odom because of the luxury tax.
Everybody should have to make sacrifices for a team to remain intact. From the owner down to the players. It's a privilege to play for a team that's a perennial contender. If you'd rather make an extra $1 million but you'd be playing in Minnesota then good riddance. Kobe knows that no team can offer him the number of years or the money the Lakers can. So even if he doesn't get the max the Lakers can still make him an offer that's greater than any other team can make him over the duration of the contract.
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Gaz V 11 months ago
Andrew wrote: "I think people are most annoyed by Odom's inconsistency."
It's not Odom's inconsistency per se that bugs people. Instead, it's the fact that he is inconsistently inconsistent. If he could be consistently inconsistent for even half a season, then the issue of his inconsistency would fade.
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