I wanted to write a follow up article on my Why the Pens Will Not be Back Next Year article. In the previous article I pointed out the oncoming exodus of players from Pittsburgh via-free agency and how the team was going to screw itself over by locking up a few superstar players to long pricey contracts.
I of course was mauled by every Penguins fan on the internet as a bias and ignorant Devils fan. There is no way they can sign two players to contracts that could total over $17 million. Marc-Andre Fleury will not be worth $5-6 million. They will resign Hossa and all their other free agents.
Well look who is laughing now. Malkin signed a $9 million contract when I said he would get $8+ million. Marc-Andre Fleury got a $5 million contract when I said he would make $5-6 million. Hossa left Pittsburgh for, as he put it, a real cup contender.
How many of their 16 Eastern Conference Champion team’s free agents did they sign? THREE! I said they will not even be able to resign a chunk of their players and they just resigned Pascal Dupuis, Mark Eaton, and Brooks Orpik.
To rub salt in the faces of those experts that said the Marian Hossa trade was amazing, I would like to point out the Penguins gave up two former first round players, a first round pick in 2008, and a former third round draft pick.
What they got was a rental player who did not win them a Stanley Cup, then bolted for another team. Now the Penguins are out four players that could have filled out their roster this season.
Some say that Pittsburgh will not stumble at all because the team resigned their “core players.”
Six players do not make up the “core” of a hockey team. There are three forwards, two defensemen, and a goalie in that “core” and that makes up one shift. What are you going to do with the other 30+ minutes of the hockey game? You need at least 10 or 11 players to have a “core” of a team.
The Penguins are seriously lacking third and forth line players. If you look at the Penguins stats from last year, there was a serious drop off of point from outside the top five forwards. Ryan Malone had 51 points, and the next closest foward was Jordan Staal and his 28 points and -5 rating.
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4 months ago
Evgeni Malkin & Sidney Crosby are good enough...
Summer paper rosters never decide the Stanley Cup...but do continue.
4 months ago
Armstrong - dime a dozen...Dupuis was/is actually an upgrade.
Chirstensen - consistently inconsistent - excellent in the Shoot Outs, though. [gag]
Esposito - stock has fallen faster than Enrons - time will tell.
29th overall pick - who?
Hossa, while he didn't single handedly get the Pens TO the Cup...he became their best player with each passing series during their run.
Hossa NOT signing with the Pens probably enabled Shero to get a long term deal done with MAF and Orpik, while filling out the roster with Satan and TANK, who are upgrades from Armstrong & Christensen.
Will the Pens get as far as they did this year?....the odds are against them....but, not any more had Hossa signed for 1 thru 7 years or had the trade never been made & those dime a dozen players were somewhere on the depth chart.
Keep the Core: Crosby, Geno, Staal, Orpik, Whitney, MAF...fill in around them = maybe not a Stanley Cup every year, but a strong chance to compete for it for years to come.
from 4 months ago
You almost get it... the players they have are fine... but you pointed it out in your last paragraph... the Pens need to fill around these players and they didn't
The Penguins would be much better off had they kept those three players for this year... they may not be amazing but if you have three inconsistent guys on a line that only score a goal every three games you average a goal a game from a third or forth line and that really helps when your big guns aren't on the ice.
I will take a dozen Armstrongs if you have them... Dupuis is not as good as Armstrong is, but I'd take Dupuis over Chirstensen... the only reason Angelo's stock has dropped is because of rumors about his work ethic... his production is still excellent... a guy with work ethic problems belongs on the rangers though, not the thrashers...
Was that an actual question about the 29th overall pick? If it was I'll gladly answer it... Daultan Leveille... he's a smaller guy and was said to be the fastest skater in the 2008 draft... which I think was said about probably three other guys, but it still is not a bad thing to be said about you... he's a goal scorer which i think the Penguins could use to put in Crosby's passes. He played in some obscure league though so his skills won't really be tested until he plays with Michigan State next year
4 months ago
So you actually think that Miroslav Satan and Fedotenko are better than Hossa and Malone? Eric Godard is better than Georges Laraque? The stats were just eye candy and show trends in production (or lack there of). I do not need stats to tell you the players the Penguins picked up are worse than the ones they lost.
I know paper rosters can't decide who wins stanley cups... I don't remember making that claim that they do... I'm pretty sure they can tell you who is not likely to see the cup finals. If you still disagree, I'm sure the Atlanta Thrashers are happy to know you think just because their stats are crap that they can't go all the way this year.
This Crosby brainwashing has reached sick levels... one or two players can not take on an entire team... Gretzky had tons of support with Mark Messier, Glenn Anderson, Jari Kurri, Paul Coffey, Kevin Lowe, Grant Fuhr, Andy Moog, Esa Tikkanen, Marty McSorley, etc... Edmonton did not just stick him on the ice for 60 minutes and have him single handedly win games because hockey does not work like that... it is a TEAM game... and this TEAM is worse than it was last year when it didn't win a stanley cup
4 months ago
I understand your opinions but you are going a little overboard. Of course I disagree with your views but you'll just have to wait until next year. The fact is that with the "CORE" of the penguins and a great coaching staff will force any player to step their game up. Assuming that Satan plays an entire season with the Pens next year, I would be my bottom dollar that he scores way more than 41 pts.
That being said, they will miss Malone. They'll need to find someone to go to the front of the net and stay there (probably 2 of them).
4 months ago
I agree with you David. Of course, now I'm an ignorant Flyers' fan, but they gave up way too much and paid Malkin too much, and they don't have enough money to sustain the dynasty that looked possible earlier this season.
from 4 months ago
the odd part i think malkin gave them a discount... its going to be interesting if they keep both Malkin and Crosby next year... they could cash in big time like the oilers did with gretzky and still have a superstar but they could get a lot of missing pieces to support that superstar... personally i would keep malkin
4 months ago
Here's why he's wrong:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/37302-questioning-the-penguins-offseason-moves
Not to mention no one in the East improved themselves.
You dont know what you're talking about, from commenting how foolish it is that they sign up their core and that they wont make it back.
There's still a trade deadline to go, not to mention that the Penguins team without Marian Hossa for 90% of the season and the season befores MVP out for 40% of the season, and a back up goalie in net for almost half of the time finished within one point of best record in the Conference... they have restocked their roster just fine.
There's absolutely no reason they dont have as good a chance as Montreal (1a and 1b in the East) to make it back.
from 4 months ago
Yes no one in the east did anything to improve their team... Montreal did not get Alex Tanguay without losing anything important, New Jersey did not pick up Brian Rolston and Bobby Holik and lose nothing, Ottawa did not bring grit to their blue line with Jason Smith and only lost huge contract Redden, Boston did not get Blake Wheeler and Michael Ryder, Washington did not pick up former Vezina Trophy and the Hart Memorial Trophy Jose Theodore while losing practically nothing, and finally Tampa Bay did not retool their entire team and become a competitive team... The Pens lost A LOT of players and signed a few downgrades.
And you hit on a big point with my problem with the Penguins... if you put all your hope in two players and one or two of them get hurt then you have no team.
And as far as me not knowing what I am talking about... that is what the Penguins fans said when I wrote my last article and everything I said came true.
I never said signing a core of players is foolish... the foolish part is people thinking a core of players is 5-6 players. That is the core of a core... you need at least two-shifts of players (10-11) to make up a core.
4 months ago
David- Satan is not better than Hossa, no. However, he should mesh well with Sid.
Fedotenko is absolutely better than Malone. He's more consistent, a better skater, and plays a better over all game.
For as little as Laraque was played, Godard will be just fine of a replacement and at a lot less.
Cooke is a very viable replacement for Ruutu.
They're the best team in their Division and they are neck and neck with the Habs for best team in the East.
from 4 months ago
Yeah and as little as Laraque played he still able to contribute 13 points last season... which is 5 more points than Godard has in his entire career. Not even a very good fighter... sorry.
Maybe I have been watching a different Fedotenko and the Pens got the one who is somehow better than Ryan Malone. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but he is a downgrade from Malone.
You're trying to tell a Devils fan that the Pens are the best team in the division? Maybe you forgot who was leading the division until they decided to become a bunch of choke artists and let the penguins take over in the last few games...
The Devils lost no one and added Brian Rolston and BAMF Bobby Holik. The Rangers are a hit or miss team and they are much deeper and younger than they were last year. The Flyers only really lost Jason Smith and I *grabs chest* predict they're the team to beat in the Atlantic. I would non't predict any competition from the 25th place Islanders, especially since the Penguins took their players.
4 months ago
"Yes no one in the east did anything to improve their team... Montreal did not get Alex Tanguay without losing anything important, New Jersey did not pick up Brian Rolston and Bobby Holik and lose nothing, Ottawa did not bring grit to their blue line with Jason Smith and only lost huge contract Redden, Boston did not get Blake Wheeler and Michael Ryder, Washington did not pick up former Vezina Trophy and the Hart Memorial Trophy Jose Theodore while losing practically nothing, and finally Tampa Bay did not retool their entire team and become a competitive team... The Pens lost A LOT of players and signed a few downgrades."
Montreal added Tanguay and lost Ryder. It's an upgrade, but can Price handle the full load?
New Jersey had so little offense last season that Rolston and Holik (who is on his last legs, as I've seen living in Thrasher company) wont make a big difference. They need a complete overhaul.
Ottawa added someone to their blue line who brings nothing but grit. They need offense out of the big three, especially since Vermette is asking for a trade and they sank like a rock at the end of the season.
Are you seriously saying that Theodore will make the difference in Washington? They'll do well because they're in the South East. They should have kept Huet.
Tampa is all flash no bang. Remember the Penguins coming out of the lock out? All this offensive fire power, a young stud rookie, no one on the blue line, no one dependable in goal, and a TV guy behind the bench. They'll be battling for third.
"And you hit on a big point with my problem with the Penguins... if you put all your hope in two players and one or two of them get hurt then you have no team."
Kind of like when Sid went down and Malkin didn't carry the team on his back last season?
Oh yeah... that happened.
By the way, you're one to say that being a Devils fan. If Brodeur goes down, your boys are picking top 3.
"And as far as me not knowing what I am talking about... that is what the Penguins fans said when I wrote my last article and everything I said came true."
You want a cookie? I could have told you Malone was gone, Laraque wasn't coming back, Roberts wouldn't be returning without a pay cut. The only person that I was surprised about was Ruutu as I didn't know what to expect from Hossa. Not my fault a bunch of unrealistic Pens fans who felt entitled were spouting off to you.
"I never said signing a core of players is foolish... the foolish part is people thinking a core of players is 5-6 players. That is the core of a core... you need at least two-shifts of players (10-11) to make up a core."
You've got two world class centers who can create offense with almost anymore, a physical defenseman, a top of the line offensive d-man, a franchise goalie, and soon a first class defensive forward. 29 other GMs would die to have that core, which is exactly what it is. Especially in the Cap era. Find me one team that has your definition of a core.
from 4 months ago
The point with the "I told you so comment" is I do infact know hockey... very very well in fact
I do not understand how Holik's 34 points on a terrible team are going to do less than Fedotenko's 33 points with a team better than the one Holik played on... I would call Rolston's 30 goals a season a significant contribution.
You can sit there and pick at holes in teams, but the fact is they all improved and the Penguins did not which is counter to your claim that somehow the Penguins got better when no one else improved.
I am perfectly aware that if Marty goes down for a long time the Devils are screwed... the Penguins lost Conklin who saved them last year and now they only have one goalie too so welcome to the club.
Last year the Penguins also had Ryan Malone and others step up when Crosby went down... it was not just Malkin... although I do think Malkin is a beast... however the Penguins lost those guys that stepped up
I am also sick of this rumor that Staal is some two-way genius... He has a -5 rating last year playing a plus team... and a -4 in the playoffs...
4 months ago
"Yeah and as little as Laraque played he still able to contribute 13 points last season... which is 5 more points than Godard has in his entire career. Not even a very good fighter... sorry."
Godard is a heavy weight who can throw them. Laraque has even said he's someone he wouldn't want to fight much.
"Maybe I have been watching a different Fedotenko and the Pens got the one who is somehow better than Ryan Malone. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but he is a downgrade from Malone."
Or you really didn't see the real Ryan Malone. That's far more likely.
"You're trying to tell a Devils fan that the Pens are the best team in the division? Maybe you forgot who was leading the division until they decided to become a bunch of choke artists and let the penguins take over in the last few games..."
You mean until the Devils faded because they couldn't score and Brodeur wore down? There was no choking involved. It was the true talent rising to the top.
"The Devils lost no one and added Brian Rolston and BAMF Bobby Holik. The Rangers are a hit or miss team and they are much deeper and younger than they were last year. The Flyers only really lost Jason Smith and I *grabs chest* predict they're the team to beat in the Atlantic. I would non't predict any competition from the 25th place Islanders, especially since the Penguins took their players."
Oh please. The Pens have better offense than the four other teams, the only goaltender better than Fleury in the division is Lundqvist (yes, he's better than Marty who is starting to cheat on his moves to compensate for his slowing play and you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise), the Pens have the best defense in the Division.
The Rangers lost top flight offensive talent and replaced it with fading Naslund and Zherdev? Unless there's some miracle, that's going to implode.
Pardon me for not fearing Holik's whole 34 points. Rolston and Parise cant do it all.
All this amounts to is foolishness from a bitter Devils fan who saw their reign as Division power end.
from 4 months ago
I just do not know how to unbrainwash you... the Penguins lost 13 players... a lot of depth guys and top end skill guys... they did not sign players that are as good as the players they lost... other teams (even if the penguins of LAST year were better) got better while the Pens got worse.
The Penguins got two players for the 25th place Islanders... how is that an upgrade?
A team that has a real core of players... maybe you've heard of them... Detroit Red Wings... Cleary, Holmstrom, Draper, Samuelsson, Hudler, Franzen, Maltby, Lidstrom, Lilja, and Kronwall ... not all drafted by Detroit but most of them have been there for a few years or more... not all top line guys, but as last season showed us if you get a group of good players together for awhile they can win the Stanley Cup over a team with a few superstars and no depth.
I have no idea where you get your Godard and Laraque facts from... http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/38878 ... Laraque is one of the best fighters in the league AND puts up points... Godard not so much
You really should read more scouting reports about players before you make comments like Ryan Malone being worse than Fedotenko because it just is not true.
I will let the Stanley Cup Champion Red Wings know that you think offense is the only way to win a Stanley Cup. They would be able to tone down their league best goals against average.
Devils and Penguins series 4-4 Flyers and Penguins series 5-3 Rangers and Penguins series 5-3... that was last year when the Penguins were better and those other three teams were worse... Not the best team in the division... sorry
I'll also let Marty know that he should give his Vezina to Fleury... he has several others so I'm sure he won't miss it.
4 months ago
"I just do not know how to unbrainwash you... the Penguins lost 13 players... a lot of depth guys and top end skill guys... they did not sign players that are as good as the players they lost... other teams (even if the penguins of LAST year were better) got better while the Pens got worse."
Because the Pens didn't get much worse. Their biggest loss was Hossa. Aside from that, everyone was replaced. Meanwhile, the Rangers lost a ton of offense and replaced it with question marks. New Jersey had zero offense to start and added one player. The Flyers lost Umberger and there's no promise Gagne will be back to 100%. The Islanders... well, something we both agree on.
"The Penguins got two players for the 25th place Islanders... how is that an upgrade?"
Two players who have offensive abilities.
"A team that has a real core of players... maybe you've heard of them... Detroit Red Wings... Cleary, Holmstrom, Draper, Samuelsson, Hudler, Franzen, Maltby, Lidstrom, Lilja, and Kronwall ... not all drafted by Detroit but most of them have been there for a few years or more... not all top line guys, but as last season showed us if you get a group of good players together for awhile they can win the Stanley Cup over a team with a few superstars and no depth."
Yep. And the Pens can lock up similar players in Letang, Talbot, Kennedy, Staal. Another pretty good core.
"I have no idea where you get your Godard and Laraque facts from... http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/38878 ... Laraque is one of the best fighters in the league AND puts up points... Godard not so much"
And all I said was that Laraque said he wouldn't want to fight Godard. And the lack of offense from Godard is offset by the improved offense from Cooke in Ruutu's role. Talbot and Cooke will be a good force for the fourth line.
"You really should read more scouting reports about players before you make comments like Ryan Malone being worse than Fedotenko because it just is not true."
Or seeing as I live in the South saw Fedko play a ton with Tampa, and watching all Pens games I saw just as much of Malone and Fedko is know that Malone really is not as good as his point totals show.
"I will let the Stanley Cup Champion Red Wings know that you think offense is the only way to win a Stanley Cup. They would be able to tone down their league best goals against average. "
What? Tell me where the hell I said that. Show me.
"Devils and Penguins series 4-4 Flyers and Penguins series 5-3 Rangers and Penguins series 5-3... that was last year when the Penguins were better and those other three teams were worse... Not the best team in the division... sorry"
Yes. And the Penguins also started out slow. After the mid way point of the year, check out those season series again. Especially the part where the Pens went on to take 7 or 9 from the Flyers counting playoffs. Numbers dont say everything, Charlie. You should learn that.
"I'll also let Marty know that he should give his Vezina to Fleury... he has several others so I'm sure he won't miss it."
Marty has been world class on the ice. His career is coming to an end, though. You have to see it. He has a few more solid years left, but your boys are going to need a goal tenders by the start of the next decade.
from 4 months ago
"What? Tell me where the hell I said that. Show me."
"Oh please. The Pens have better offense than the four other teams" that's where you seem to think offense is all that matters... thats where the detroit comment came from
"Yep. And the Pens can lock up similar players in Letang, Talbot, Kennedy, Staal. Another pretty good core."
YES! if the Pens sign Letang, Talbot Kenned,y, Staal, and some other guys for a long time or keep them around then they have a core... BUT you can not call 6 players a "core"... and the problem is going to finding the cap room to sign these players then those fringe guys to fill up that 22 player roster.
"Yes. And the Penguins also started out slow."
I'm glad you think that you only need to play half a season... I can tell you from watching the Devils last year you have to play a full season or you get jack.
"Numbers dont say everything, Charlie. You should learn that."
Lucky for you because if I was just using stats the Penguins would almost look laughable outside of Crosby and Malkin. Stats definitely show trends and they are part of the argument.
"Marty has been world class on the ice. His career is coming to an end, though. You have to see it. He has a few more solid years left, but your boys are going to need a goal tenders by the start of the next decade."
Hasek was 42 and still put up a great season... at 43 he put up a decent one... I think Marty has several years ahead of him
4 months ago
I said they had a better offense than the other four teams, and I believe I mentioned something about defense as well. Yes? And the Detroit thing is irrelevant since I was discussing within the Division.
I dont think the Pens only need to play half a season. Their slow starts are maddening and one of the reasons why I think Therrien should be let go (though that's an article in and of itself).
As far as numbers, dont forget who has had great seasons along side of Malkin and Crosby. They both make the players around them better the way Lemieux, Gretzky, and to a lesser extent Thornton do. Numbers dont tell the whole story.
And finally, as I said, Marty has a good couple of seasons left before it really leaves him. I'm hardly counting him out yet.
from 4 months ago
A Pens fan that said something not 100% positive about Therrien!? You're going to be on some serious fellow Pens' fans black lists... but there may be hope for you yet if you can see he is not the best coach ever.
His style does not fit the players they have among other things... let me know when you write that article because I will definitely support it.
I was trying to say offense is not all that matters... I think the Rangers have the best defense in the division (and thus I am on the black list of all Devils' fans)... I think the Devils and Flyers have better defenses than the Pens, but not by all that much...
The Devils also got much better (for them at least) offensively. The Flyers have two players coming up that are going to rock people's worlds. The Rangers could make up for losing Jagr, it all depends on if their players are booms or busts.
The big problem all the teams in the Atlantic are going to face is they are all playoff teams (we of course leave out the Islanders...)
What the Penguins need to do is get that "core" of guys that we discussed above and then trade Crosby for waaaay more than he's worth like the Oilers did to LA with Gretzky... Malkin I see as the guy they should keep... get two wingers in the trade to put on either side of him and a couple role players then we can talk about a really good Pens team...
4 months ago
You had me until you said trade Crosby. Absolutely not. No way, no how.
And I cant stand Therrien.
4 months ago
YES! if the Pens sign Letang, Talbot Kenned,y, Staal, and some other guys for a long time or keep them around then they have a core... BUT you can not call 6 players a "core"... and the problem is going to finding the cap room to sign these players then those fringe guys to fill up that 22 player roster.
You seem to feel that the Penguins players wear fringe in their uniforms. I dont know where you watch hockey, but I've never seen any player with fringe on their uniforms and it probably wouldnt be allowed by the NHL, although I will admit that "Vegas Gold" was close to being gay.
I'm glad you think that you only need to play half a season... I can tell you from watching the Devils last year you have to play a full season or you get jack.
I sorry you feel that you need players named Jack to win the division or the stanley cup. Last time I looked, no NHL team needed anyone named Hossa or Jack to win the Stanley cup (although Im not so sure about the jack thing).
Sheesh, you really are defensive dude - lighten up. Oh, and the Pens core is not just Malkin, Crosby, Staal, Orpik & Fluery - but also Gonchar, Letang (2 more years before Pens have to worry about him), Whitney (he's just going to get better & better) and solid position/shot blocking D behind them & help coming from the baby Pens. Also, the Pen's that you see now will not be the same as the one after the trade deadline. It's smart to leave some room for a late season addition - and if Shero is anything - he is sharp.
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