The bottom line for comparing Rich Harden and CC Sabathia is consistency, or lack of. Both pitchers are extremely talented, sometimes dominant, and maddeningly inconsistent for different reasons.
Sabathia makes more starts and goes deeper into starts, but is less consistent per outing. Also, Sabathia seems to raise or lower his game for the competition, sometimes.
For instance, Sabathia threw a complete game shutout in his last start against the Oakland A's, but was shelled so bad in the two previous starts against Oakland that he's 1-2 with a 6.63 ERA against the A's this year.
Sabathia got a win vs. Roy Halladay in a 1-0 pitcher's duel and a 1-0 loss against Chien-Ming Wang in New York. Yet he's 1-2 with a 3.54 ERA against the Kansas City Royals.
All in all, Sabathia's made 19 starts with the Indians/Brewers this year going 7-8 with a 3.79 ERA against teams with a cumulative winning percentage of .504. His team is 9-10 in games Sabathia starts this year.
Rich Harden has made fewer starts, pitched fewer innings, and gets fewer decisions. But Harden has consistently pitched well when he's been healthy enough to start.
Harden is 2-0 with a 1.58 ERA in three starts against the defending champion Boston Red Sox.
Harden won against Tim Hudson and Atlanta, giving up one run over seven innings, and did the same in a no-decision versus Roy Halladay and Toronto before pitching an eight-inning, two-hit shutout with 11 Ks against the Philadelphia Phillies.
Harden's velocity dropped off over his last two starts as he pitched five innings each against the Los Angeles Angels and Chicago White Sox. For July, Harden is 0-1 with a 3.60 ERA, giving up 10 hits while getting nine Ks against two of the best teams in the AL.
All in all, Harden's made 13 starts with the Oakland A's this year going 5-1 with a 2.34 ERA against teams with a cumulative winning percentage of .536. The A's were 9-4 in games Harden started.
Both pitchers have limited postseason experience and neither have great postseason numbers. Both made post season appearances in their rookie years. Harden is 1-2 with a 6.43 ERA in seven innings, surrendering two HRs in limited action. Sabathia is 2-2 with a 7.17 ERA in 21 innings, giving up three HRs.
Sabathia is clearly the better hitter. His career batting line is 42 AB, .286 avg., two HR and seven RBI. Harden's offensive line is nine AB with one hit for a .111 avg.
So who got the better pitcher, the Cubs or the Brewers? For this season, when Rich Harden's been healthy enough to start, he has performed more consistently than CC Sabathia. But it really wouldn't surprise me if both these guys ended the season on the DL. At that point the comparisons would be moot except for one thing, which club made the better deal?
Clearly the Chicago Cubs gave up less to get more than the Milwaukee Brewers. Without the addition of Chad Gaudin (pronounced Go-dan for you Cubs fans who I know don't know better) to the Cubs these deals would have been much more even.
But the Brewers gave away their two best prospects plus two more to rent a starter for half a year. The Brewers have almost no chance of re-signing both Sabathia and Ben Sheets, either or both of whom could wind up with the Cubs or the Indians or nearly anybody else this winter.
Meanwhile, the Cubs gave up nothing more than some surplus for a proven No. 1 or No. 2 starter with a year and a half left on his contract at $7 million per and got Chad Gaudin, who is arbitration eligible for the next three years, for a free insurance policy should Harden go down.
Gaudin is the steal of this trade and the reason many A's fans say that Cubs GM Jim Hendry pantsed the A's Billy Beane on this deal.
In the end if the Brewers overtake the Cubs this fall they can well say the short term gain was worth it. But under any other scenario, the Cubs win.
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3 months ago
Give Murton, Patterson, and Gallagher some credit. With some regular playing time, don't be surprised to see all three get regular spots on regular rosters.
Beane doesn't get fleeced, it just doesn't happen.
from 3 months ago
Beane doesn't get fleeced, you say?
How are Charles Thomas, Juan Cruz and Dan Meyer doing these days? That's the contingent they got for Tim Hudson who's only won 52 games for Atlanta in 3 1/2 seasons since being traded by Beane.
from 3 months ago
Exactly Jeff. And don't forget about sending Andre Ethier LA for Milton Bradley, then letting Bradley go for nothing only to play in the ASG this year for the Rangers. Beane flavored Kool Aid is still a hot commodity outside of NorCal but in Oakland its getting harder to sell.
3 months ago
Greg, really good article and nice job taking your time and incorporating research and analysis in your article. Very professional!
from 3 months ago
Thanks Sam. I'm glad you were able to find it buried wherever it was.
3 months ago
"But it really wouldn't surprise me if both these guys ended the season on the DL. "
Why would you think CC would end up on the DL? His starts by year:
2001 Cle 33
2002 Cle 33
2003 Cle 30
2004 Cle 30
2005 Cle 31
2006 Cle 28
2007 Cle 34
The guy is a horse - he doesn't get hurt every year like Harden.
You're wishing he gets hurt. Harden getting hurt is much more likely.
Also the Brewers didn't give away "their two best prospects" They gave away their #2 LaPorta and maybe their #6 in Taylor Green if he is the PTBNL. See http://www.brewerfan.net/ViewPower50.do
It is hilarious how many postings are on this site today trying to paint the Harden deal vastly superior to the Sabathia deal. Delusional Cubs fans. Oh sorry that's redundant.
from 3 months ago
This isn't personal, T but if it were, personally since CC Sabathia grew up next to my home town, I'd prefer he didn't get hurt. I'm a fan of both these guys, they're great pitchers with roots in the East Bay.
My point is that the Brewers mortgaged their future for a guy who is every bit as great yet inconsistent as Rich Harden without any contingency at all if the club doesn't pass the Cubs this year. Sorry, but with Chad Gaudin in the deal, the Cubs made a vastly superior trade. Good luck with that NL Central thing.
3 months ago
Vastly superior? I don't think so.
Mortgaged their future? Hmmmm, when you are loaded as in farm as the Brewers are, you don't mortgage your future by giving up prospects. They had 10 count 'em 10 all stars at Huntsville.
CC is not Cy Young but he take the mound every 5th day and has done so for the entire millenium. Harden is even more injury prone then Ben Sheets.
The Cubs made a good deal, didn't give up much I grant you, but the Brewers gave a bit more (but not their entire future as you speculate) and got a lot more in return - a horse, a Cy Young winner, the only true #1 on the market this year.
from 3 months ago
T, don't preach to me about small market teams with deep and talented farm systems. I'm an A's fan. Your GM keeps selling off prospects for rental players and your farm system won't be deep or talented for long.
Next comes the A's style fire sale dealing the players he CAN keep just to replenish the system with prospects. Meanwhile you'll watch your favorite players go somewhere else while you hope the new guys actually develop. That's the blueprint, but forgive me if I'll wait to be impressed with the Brewers until they at least make the playoffs.
The Brewers gave up more and got a better probability of getting more innings out of Sabathia in return but as I've shown above, this year CC's just not as effective consistently as he was last year. If you want to hang your hat on his Cy Young and perceived #1 hubbub good for you but Harden's out pitched him through the first half. So the Cubs got more, and a second pitcher and they have them both under contract through next year. The only way it pays off for the Brewers is if they go deeper into the Fall than the Cubs. Good luck with that.
3 months ago
I'm not sure it's a huge difference, but I think Harden/Gaudin is a tad better than Sabathia. Harden gets hurt A LOT though! But Sabathia is pretty surefire to stay healthy.
from 3 months ago
Yeah, pick your poison. Sabathia this year will go out and get you a decision either way. He'll dominate or get shelled, but you'll get a decision. Harden might make his start, might get a decision, but the starts he makes you can pretty much count on shutting down the order twice through. I guess the real difference is with Harden you know your bullpen's gonna get work and that's why Hendry wouldn't pull the trigger without Gaudin.
from 3 months ago
I agree. Gaudin is going to be key with Harden in there.
3 months ago
Greg, not preaching. And this is the first time Melvin has given up real farm system value for a key rent-a-player... No worries from this fan about him selling off all the prospects. And, the key thing here is now is the time to team Sheets with another big gun, because chances are pretty good Sheeter walks this year too. Next year our 1-2 will be Gallardo and Parra in April, which is upside but nothing to scare anyone, at least at this stage. This is the year to go for it, as the NL Wild Card is very winnable even if the remarkable Cubbies continue to defy their losing legacy and make the post season for the 2nd year in a row for the first time since 1908-09.
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