We have followed them since their high school years and crossed our fingers in hopes our team would be the one these uber-quarterbacks chose to bless with their presence.
But how did they fare once they embarked on the collegiate gridiron? Were the expectations met? Exceeded? Or did they fail to meet the hype that has surrounded them since high school?
Now, a look at one of the most highly-hyped quarterbacks to come out of high school and what his future holds.
Jimmy Clausen, Notre Dame
Clausen was the first feather in head coach Charlie Weis' cap. A five star recruit, Clausen was pretty much set on committing to Notre Dame despite hailing from California.
Though the press hyped-up Clausen's much-anticipated signing announcement, Clausen decided to take it to the next level. He had a rented a white stretch Hummer limo that drove up to the College Football Hall of Fame in South Bend, Indiana to announce Notre Dame as his final choice.
Over the top? Completely.
In fact, the press derided his flamboyant entrance as a mockery of college athletics. Clausen, of course, had only to continue Notre Dame's "Return to Glory" mission of the previous two years to have all criticism of his announcement day show forgotten.
Clausen, unfortunately, failed miserably in his first year. Was it his fault? The coach's fault? Or was he overrated? You be the judge.
While Clausen did have a horrible 2007 season, coach Charlie Weis failed to inform the public of Clausen's secret elbow surgery (bone spur) prior to the start of the 2007 season.
To make matters worse, Georgia Tech—in Notre Dame's first game of the season—saw Demetrius Jones as the starter, even though he had complained of shoulder pain. According to Jones, the Irish ignored the injury so as to encourage competition between the Irish quarterbacks.
Jones was pulled at halftime, and eventually, enter Jimmy Clausen, who Jones maintained was the "chosen one" despite alleged reassurances from Weis that there would be competition for the quarterback position. Jones, as it turned out, left the team and had his shoulder surgically repaired.
Clausen, of course, began his nightmarish freshman season. Was it too early for him to start playing after having surgery? Perhaps, but Weis didn't have a lot of options after Jones left the team.
The fact that the Irish had one of the worst offensive lines in the NCAA also didn't help Clausen's campaign. In 10 games he had a -187 yards in rushing, ostensibly due to 34 sacks. He had a 56.3 passing completion percentage and a 103.85 quarterback rating.
Cue the deflating balloon sound.
The Irish were ranked 116th in scoring offense, 115th in rushing offense, 112th in third down conversions, and 110th in passing offense. How bad was the O-line? The Irish were ranked dead last in sacks allowed and tackles for loss allowed.
So how much of it was Clausen's fault?
His 6-7 (INT-TD) pass ratio doesn't help his case, but his sore elbow does. The fact that Clausen spent more time on his back than Paris Hilton furthers the argument that his horrendous stats weren't entirely his fault.
461 comments Last one added 9 months ago — Leave a Comment
Josh Prope about 1 year ago
wow this is a massive article
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Uncle Rico Touchdown Mountain about 1 year ago
And very poor at that.
Here is the best commentary I've seen on it so far (Lisa's comments in italics):
-- Clausen was the first feather in head coach Charlie Weis' cap.
... not really. The class before Clausen's landed Sam Young, arguably the most sought after lineman in the country, and James Aldridge another five-star.
-- Though the press hyped-up Clausen's much-anticipated signing day announcement, Clausen decided to take it to the next level. He rented a white stretch Hummer limo and drove up to the College Football Hall of Fame in South Bend, Indiana to announce Notre Dame as his final choice.
... wasn't signing day, even though you said it was twice. It was the day of the Blue-Gold game. His family did rent a limo, not having their cars 2000 miles from home. Some see it as practical, some as over the top. Whatever
--To make matters worse, Georgia Tech—in Notre Dame's first game of the season—saw Demetrius Jones as the starter, even though he had complained of shoulder pain.
... a claim nobody ever heard about until after he ditched his team, then showed back up in the student section and mugged for cameras and was rightly crucified in the Notre Dame community for his feckless and me-first attitude. His only choice was to start firing back at ND to save face
--Jones was pulled at halftime in favor of Jimmy Clausen
... no, he wasn't. He was pulled for Evan Sharpley. And it wasn't at half time. Clausen entered the game late in the game when it was out of hand.
-- He had a 56.3 passing completion percentage and a 103.85 quarterback rating. ... Cue the deflating balloon sound. ... His 6-7 (INT-TD) pass ratio doesn't help his case
... as a true freshman, remember? For comparison: Quinn as a true freshman (47.3, 93.5, 9-15) Stafford as a true freshman (52.7, 109.0, 7-13), Mustain as a true freshman (52.3, 120.5, 10-9), Leak as arguably the best recent true freshman QB year (59.4, 132.3, 11-16). So Clausen's numbers certainly weren't good, but compared with other top QBs who played as true freshmen they don't seem unusually bad. Add in the poor line -- I suspect he was sacked more often than any of the others on that list -- and the hyperbole of "failed miserably", "horrible 2007 season", "nightmarish freshman season", "complete dud", etc. rings a bit hollow
-- But most good quarterbacks know when to throw the ball away, how to make reads on the defense, and recognize blitz packages
... yes, they do -- but not generally as true freshmen. Perhaps Chad Henne did, or Chris Leak, but those are the exceptions, not the rules. And for them, playing behind a competent OL makes their deficiencies matter less often
-- Clausen failed to really make any headway in those three departments. Sure the O-line was a giant sieve, but Evan Sharpley, who played in eight games, had better stats. And less hype.
... First, no, he really didn't. See below. And this was in his third year in the program, and wasn't coming off an arm injury that prevented playing all summer.
--Sharpley had a 106.65 quarterback rating, completed 55 percent of his passes, and had a 3-5 pass ratio. With the same offensive line that Clausen did.
... remarkably similar numbers to Clausen: marginally worse completion percentage, marginally better QB rating, similar slightly negative TD/INT ratio. But the injured true freshman sucks, while the healthy RS-So has "better numbers" and is implicitly praised as a better choice?
--It's easy to look like an offensive genius if you know the defensive play signals in advance, isn't it? Weis, whether he participated or not, didn't have the benefit of videotapes to help him call the right offensive plays at Notre Dame.
... so I suppose Weis knew the signals of Pitt (42), MSU (44), UW (36), Purdue (49), BYU (49), Tennesee (41), Navy (42), and Stanford (38) in his first year, and Penn State (41), MSU (40), Purdue (35), Navy (38), UNC (45), Air Force (39), and Army (41) in his second year? After all, you're insinuating that's the only reason he was so good in the pros. And with that, you're implying that he is bad in college because he doesn't have this advantage.
-- He couldn't adjust his offense to counter the blitzes (Why weren't more rollouts and draw plays used?)
...With a true freshman QB, it's hard to have too complex an audible system. As far as rollouts, that's a good question, but as far as draws, ND ran lots of draws. Arguably too many draws. Same with screens.
--But while Clausen was young and inexperienced, so were Tim Tebow and Colt McCoy. They both had better records. The biggest problem for Clausen, however, was escaping pressure from the D. ...With better talent, particularly in the upper classes, around them. You know, the ones that you dismiss as Weis' fault even though he had no responsibility for recruiting the 5th years or Seniors last year, and minimal ability to impact the juniors. McCoy was also a redshirt freshman, not a true freshman. And Tebow wasn't really the QB, more of a gimmick runner / fullback / athlete role behind Leak.
--While you can blame Notre Dame's porous O-line, it's hard to believe that Oaks Christian High School had a better O-line than one of the most elite football programs in the nation.
... you're kidding, right? This comment just doesn't make any sense. Did you forget to take into account that one is playing against (relatively mediocre) HS competition, while the other is playing DI-A football?
-- Despite visions of 2008 BCS bowl bids dancing in leprechaun's heads
... ND fans have high enough expectations as is, we don't really need bloggers claiming that "oh, all ND fans think ND is going to a BCS game this year" -- that's the type of crap that gets legs and becomes accepted as Gospel truth for no apparent reason.
-- Clausen showed little sign of having made a lot of progress—except for lack of soreness on his throwing arm—during Spring practice, according to the Irish's fans on Internet message boards.
... well, the fans never got to see him in spring (that's uncapitalized, just like the rest of the seasons) practice, so they wouldn't really know. They saw him once, at the blue-gold game. His completion percentage sucked, yes, but it also wasn't a game situation either. Consider, for instance, on the drive that resulted in the eventual "game winning TD" (whatever that really means in the scoring system): every single play was a fade to the endzone. Both the offense and defense knew the call and were using that series for situational prep. So I'm just not sure where such a grand conclusion can be drawn about his progress when nobody has really seen anything from him.
...It would've taken about 30 minutes to fact-check that tripe - at most.
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Uncle Rico Touchdown Mountain about 1 year ago
Here's an article from someone that doesn't write to pull hair.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/34610-jimmy-clausen-and-group-stupid-mindthink
Their headlines are controversial, but you can't fault the content simply because they don't make sh*t up.
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Jimson Cuenta about 1 year ago
"And very poor at that.
Here is the best commentary I've seen on it so far (Lisa's comments in italics):
-- Clausen was the first feather in head coach Charlie Weis' cap.
... not really. The class before Clausen's landed Sam Young, arguably the most sought after lineman in the country, and James Aldridge another five-star.
-- Though the press hyped-up Clausen's much-anticipated signing day announcement, Clausen decided to take it to the next level. He rented a white stretch Hummer limo and drove up to the College Football Hall of Fame in South Bend, Indiana to announce Notre Dame as his final choice.
... wasn't signing day, even though you said it was twice. It was the day of the Blue-Gold game. His family did rent a limo, not having their cars 2000 miles from home. Some see it as practical, some as over the top. Whatever
--To make matters worse, Georgia Tech—in Notre Dame's first game of the season—saw Demetrius Jones as the starter, even though he had complained of shoulder pain.
... a claim nobody ever heard about until after he ditched his team, then showed back up in the student section and mugged for cameras and was rightly crucified in the Notre Dame community for his feckless and me-first attitude. His only choice was to start firing back at ND to save face
--Jones was pulled at halftime in favor of Jimmy Clausen
... no, he wasn't. He was pulled for Evan Sharpley. And it wasn't at half time. Clausen entered the game late in the game when it was out of hand.
-- He had a 56.3 passing completion percentage and a 103.85 quarterback rating. ... Cue the deflating balloon sound. ... His 6-7 (INT-TD) pass ratio doesn't help his case
... as a true freshman, remember? For comparison: Quinn as a true freshman (47.3, 93.5, 9-15) Stafford as a true freshman (52.7, 109.0, 7-13), Mustain as a true freshman (52.3, 120.5, 10-9), Leak as arguably the best recent true freshman QB year (59.4, 132.3, 11-16). So Clausen's numbers certainly weren't good, but compared with other top QBs who played as true freshmen they don't seem unusually bad. Add in the poor line -- I suspect he was sacked more often than any of the others on that list -- and the hyperbole of "failed miserably", "horrible 2007 season", "nightmarish freshman season", "complete dud", etc. rings a bit hollow
-- But most good quarterbacks know when to throw the ball away, how to make reads on the defense, and recognize blitz packages
... yes, they do -- but not generally as true freshmen. Perhaps Chad Henne did, or Chris Leak, but those are the exceptions, not the rules. And for them, playing behind a competent OL makes their deficiencies matter less often
-- Clausen failed to really make any headway in those three departments. Sure the O-line was a giant sieve, but Evan Sharpley, who played in eight games, had better stats. And less hype.
... First, no, he really didn't. See below. And this was in his third year in the program, and wasn't coming off an arm injury that prevented playing all summer.
--Sharpley had a 106.65 quarterback rating, completed 55 percent of his passes, and had a 3-5 pass ratio. With the same offensive line that Clausen did.
... remarkably similar numbers to Clausen: marginally worse completion percentage, marginally better QB rating, similar slightly negative TD/INT ratio. But the injured true freshman sucks, while the healthy RS-So has "better numbers" and is implicitly praised as a better choice?
--It's easy to look like an offensive genius if you know the defensive play signals in advance, isn't it? Weis, whether he participated or not, didn't have the benefit of videotapes to help him call the right offensive plays at Notre Dame.
... so I suppose Weis knew the signals of Pitt (42), MSU (44), UW (36), Purdue (49), BYU (49), Tennesee (41), Navy (42), and Stanford (38) in his first year, and Penn State (41), MSU (40), Purdue (35), Navy (38), UNC (45), Air Force (39), and Army (41) in his second year? After all, you're insinuating that's the only reason he was so good in the pros. And with that, you're implying that he is bad in college because he doesn't have this advantage.
-- He couldn't adjust his offense to counter the blitzes (Why weren't more rollouts and draw plays used?)
...With a true freshman QB, it's hard to have too complex an audible system. As far as rollouts, that's a good question, but as far as draws, ND ran lots of draws. Arguably too many draws. Same with screens.
--But while Clausen was young and inexperienced, so were Tim Tebow and Colt McCoy. They both had better records. The biggest problem for Clausen, however, was escaping pressure from the D. ...With better talent, particularly in the upper classes, around them. You know, the ones that you dismiss as Weis' fault even though he had no responsibility for recruiting the 5th years or Seniors last year, and minimal ability to impact the juniors. McCoy was also a redshirt freshman, not a true freshman. And Tebow wasn't really the QB, more of a gimmick runner / fullback / athlete role behind Leak.
--While you can blame Notre Dame's porous O-line, it's hard to believe that Oaks Christian High School had a better O-line than one of the most elite football programs in the nation.
... you're kidding, right? This comment just doesn't make any sense. Did you forget to take into account that one is playing against (relatively mediocre) HS competition, while the other is playing DI-A football?
-- Despite visions of 2008 BCS bowl bids dancing in leprechaun's heads
... ND fans have high enough expectations as is, we don't really need bloggers claiming that "oh, all ND fans think ND is going to a BCS game this year" -- that's the type of crap that gets legs and becomes accepted as Gospel truth for no apparent reason.
-- Clausen showed little sign of having made a lot of progress—except for lack of soreness on his throwing arm—during Spring practice, according to the Irish's fans on Internet message boards.
... well, the fans never got to see him in spring (that's uncapitalized, just like the rest of the seasons) practice, so they wouldn't really know. They saw him once, at the blue-gold game. His completion percentage sucked, yes, but it also wasn't a game situation either. Consider, for instance, on the drive that resulted in the eventual "game winning TD" (whatever that really means in the scoring system): every single play was a fade to the endzone. Both the offense and defense knew the call and were using that series for situational prep. So I'm just not sure where such a grand conclusion can be drawn about his progress when nobody has really seen anything from him.
...It would've taken about 30 minutes to fact-check that tripe - at most."
Uncle Rico, if YOU think that really that good... then why do I NOT see YOUR NAME in the lists of TOP WRITERS in ANY area of College Football???
I mean, Tim Pollock, Lisa Horne, and I... are ALL in the TOP 15 in MANY AREAS of College Football :)
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
It's too long? Dang...I tried to keep it tight. Sorry. ;(
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Jimson Cuenta about 1 year ago
Lisa, you really did not have to apologize... Honestly, I think that this may potentially be the article of the year, on Bleacher Report :)
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CJ Daley about 1 year ago
I will sum it up for you.
Lisa = USC hater who pulls shit out of thin air to try and make a point.
Uncle Rico pretty much bitch slapped you. Does that sum it up for you sweatpea?
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Jimson Cuenta about 1 year ago
What are you talking about, CJ???
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Gage Arnold about 1 year ago
Looks great. As a Tennessee Fan I was really hoping he came to us, but he decided to part his ways and go on to Notre Dame, which im fine with now :)
Clausen is just exactly as you noted, a QB who had so much hype around him, and so much publicity that this thing of Football was just nothing for him. It didn't force him to go out and exert himself and go all out. He just rode the parade of undefeated High-School seasons and showered himself in the publicity and Benjamins.
I wish he would have panned out, and now saying he can't pan out now, but he truly needs a reality check, and he still seems to be spinning from last season.
And the length was good I thought, lots of great information, I liked it. :)
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Thanks Gage, but apparently a Domer fan (see below) is a bit miffed at me and called me a hack. Imagine that? Talk about unoriginal.....I get called that all the time and am waiting for something more creative.
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
Really? You get called a hack all the time? Like you said yourself, "where there's smoke, there's fire..."
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Mike Regan about 1 year ago
Gage
Lots of ......... information; right, except it's pretty much all wrong. Please see Uncle Rico's response above, to which I'll add, the surgery was well known by all, except it apppears, Ms. Horne.
Mike/Austin, T.
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Jimson Cuenta about 1 year ago
"Gage
Lots of ......... information; right, except it's pretty much all wrong. Please see Uncle Rico's response above, to which I'll add, the surgery was well known by all, except it apppears, Ms. Horne.
Mike/Austin, T."
What are you talking about, Mike???
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Gage Arnold about 1 year ago
I do not have the slightest idea Jimson.
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
Lisa: To put it kindly, this article blows. Did you just copy and paste what every "expert" on ESPN and CNNSI have written about Clausen this offseason? At least try to provide somewhat of a unique perspective on the issue...and whats with all the goddamn questions? You want me to be the judge? Sure, here it is. My judgment is that you are a unoriginal, uninformed hack. Sorry, "I'm a realist."
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Accusing me of cutting and pasting is out of line, Weston. That's plagiarism, and I take your accusation very seriously. I have NEVER done that, and resent that off-the-cuff remark. You either owe me an apology or had better provide proof of your statement. Capiche?
While I encourage healthy debate, you are out of line and completely unprofessional in your criticism. Lighten up.
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
...and you're telling me to lighten up?
Look, I don't really think that you copied and pasted from other Clausen/ND articles this offseason. The point is that I have read many of these same criticisms about Clausen time and time again. I understand that ND is always going to be a major media target, but it gets annoying when every sports writer out there suddenly anoints themselves an expert on ND football when in my eyes they have no idea what they are talking about and simply regurgitating the main points they hear on ESPN.
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CJ Daley about 1 year ago
Are you kidding me?
Demanding an apology for comments on a fan blog is rather pathetic. Calling for professionalim would suggest that someone on BleacherReport is a professional. If you thing you are a professional Lisa, that is one of the funniest comments I have read. Listen sweatheart. Posting on a free blog on foxsports.com _does_not_mean_ you are a professional.
Several times you have been called out for simply making shit up. Uncle Rico clearly took the time to counter EVERY one of the mistakes you made or to show how your ASSumptions were off. What do you counter with...
It's too long...
Freaking pathetic. It was long because you MADE SO MANY F*CKING MISTAKES!!!
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Jimson Cuenta about 1 year ago
"Are you kidding me?
Demanding an apology for comments on a fan blog is rather pathetic. Calling for professionalim would suggest that someone on BleacherReport is a professional. If you thing you are a professional Lisa, that is one of the funniest comments I have read. Listen sweatheart. Posting on a free blog on foxsports.com _does_not_mean_ you are a professional.
Several times you have been called out for simply making shit up. Uncle Rico clearly took the time to counter EVERY one of the mistakes you made or to show how your ASSumptions were off. What do you counter with...
It's too long...
Freaking pathetic. It was long because you MADE SO MANY F*CKING MISTAKES!!!"
Once again, CJ... I do NOT know what you are talking about :)
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Weston...gee, hadn't read any of those articles you mentioned, but if the writers did write that, then maybe we "hacks" are on to something and your QB is overrated? Where there's smoke, there is fire.
And your avatar is a fine clue as to why you are so defensive about Notre Dame. Cheer up...you get to watch them every week on NBC.
And you are a realist? Let me guess...this year Notre Dame goes bowling and Weis wins coach of the year. Right? (sigh) If it's one thing college football can depend on, it's Notre Dame fans to continue to be myopic about their team due to guilt. It's OK....you won't be struck down by lightning if you say, "The Irish stink."
Last year they did stink...and you get almost everyone back this year. Is that the good news or the bad news. There's another question for ya.
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
The same people, probably yourself included, were ripping Brady Quinn and claiming that he would never amount to anything after his freshman AND sophomore years. He also suffered from a terrible offensive line and lack of playmakers at the skill positions. If you truly were the "realist" you claim to be, you'd concede that it was virtually impossible to evaluate a still-injured freshman QB in the situation that he was in last year. I'm fairly confident that Tom Brady and Peyton Manning wouldn't have looked too good behind that porous line.
Are you seriously paid to write articles? If so, I might have to change my profession.
Again, if I'm allowed to be a "realist" myself, I'm going to have to go ahead and call you out as the biggest front-runner on this site and maybe anywhere else. USC, UF, Celts...while I admit that it seems pretty convenient given the times, how is this even possible?
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Jimson Cuenta about 1 year ago
"Are you seriously paid to write articles? If so, I might have to change my profession."
Hey Weston, I think that it would be an EXCELLENT idea for you... to change your profession :)
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Gage Arnold about 1 year ago
haha yea really, this guy went to town defending his Jimmy. He's definetely the guy who sleeps with his Jimmy Clausen FatHead. :)
I mean come on people, if your going to defend your "Man" then at least go out and think about some of these things.
I think calling a Cotton Headed Ninny Muggins would have been much more creative. :)
And just a favor Lisa, would you care to take a look at my latest post on the Clemson Tigers, I'm just looking for someone to get some feedback on it, and it isn't very easy to get publicity on it, so I wanted to make sure everything looked ok on it.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
gage...I read it and commented on it!
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sven ghali about 1 year ago
Clausen announcing his commitment at the HOF isn't as flamboyant as doing it on ESPN.
Clausen's surgery was announced far before the start of the '07 season. Rumors circulated within days.
Clausen and Sharpley's final QB ratings were only 2.9 points apart.
Clausen had a higher completion percentage.
Clausen finished the season with 6 TD's to 1 INT over the last three games.
Clausen was better as a freshman than Quinn.
Clausen has plenty of time left to live up to the hype.
Crist can start if he doesn't.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
sven....but Clausen's pass ratio wasn't nearly as good as Sharpley's, and Clausen's QB rating was still higher.
Crist can start? Another youngster? Isn't that the whole reason why ND lost last year? A plethora of underclassmen. I'm not so sure Weis would replace Clausen.....he's been getting the majority of reps. Last year the excuse was all those underclassmen...I don't think Weis will want to venture down that road again.
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sven ghali about 1 year ago
To be honest I'm not sure what you mean by pass ratio. Forgive my ignorance, but pass to what ratio? Actually, Sharpley's rating was higher, but not by much.
I was being brief, but for this year I think Sharpley's number 2. I meant to say that Crist can start some time down the road, when he's ready, if Clausen clearly can't get it done. Yeah, I cringe whenever I hear disgruntled Irish fans insisting on Crist.
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Jimson Cuenta about 1 year ago
"I was being brief, but for this year I think Sharpley's number 2. I meant to say that Crist can start some time down the road, when he's ready, if Clausen clearly can't get it done. Yeah, I cringe whenever I hear disgruntled Irish fans insisting on Crist."
Man, if this was Alabama... I bet you that Crist would be named the starter, THIS SEASON :)
I mean, in 2001... the Crimson Tide started Tyler Watts, in favor of Andrew Zow :)
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Weston...FRONTRUNNER????????? Are you freaking kidding me? The Celts went 22 years w/o an NBA title and now that we have one, you are accusing me of being a bandwagoner? My heart sank the day Len Bias died.
As a Trojan fan, I suffered throw Larry Smith, Ted Tollner and Paul Hackett and that long stretch of Irish victories.
Yeah, I got lucky with my Celts this year. After 22 years, I deserve some NBA happiness. How can you sit here and judge me as a frontrunner? I WENT TO USC! I'm also a Raider fan, for crying out loud.
As far as Quinn...I liked the guy. In fact, Tyrone never got enough credit for getting him to Notre Dame.
As far as Clausen...he is not still injured...it's been forever since he had surgery. Heck, JD Booty had a broken finger and while he threw 4 INTs against Stanford, he still had a better effort than Clausen ever did. Clausen is over-hyped. Good thing he bulked up this year....that extra padding will come in handy.
And yes, I get paid to write. Sounds like you are just having a case of sour grapes.
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
See this is why I call you uninformed and group you with the typical ND hater...if you knew anything about the recruitment of Brady Quinn at all you would know that Ty had nothing to do with convincing him to attend ND. ND offered Quinn's teammate Chinedum Ndukwe (now a safety for the Bengals) and he decided to commit to ND. After committing to ND, Ndukwe and his father took Quinn on numerous trips to ND and had to convince Willingham to give him an offer. If anyone deserves credit for BQ ending up in South Bend, its Chinedum and his father.
JD Booty throwing 4 INT's against STANFORD at home is a better effort than anything Clausen has done thus far? Please, explain this.
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Carl Iconn about 1 year ago
Tyrone arguably didn't "get" Brady to Notre Dame. Brady's HS teammate (Ndukwe) was being recruited by Notre Dame, and Brady accompanied Duke on a visit. He introduced Brady to Ty. Brady wanted an Irish offer more than anything, and NDukwe made it happen for him. Ty couldn't have deserved less credit for any of the recruits during his tenure.
I don't think you're very smart, by the way--just my observation. And you are certainly not on any real path towards becoming a journalist. Stick to baseless blogging, it becomes you.
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Jimson Cuenta about 1 year ago
"Tyrone arguably didn't "get" Brady to Notre Dame. Brady's HS teammate (Ndukwe) was being recruited by Notre Dame, and Brady accompanied Duke on a visit. He introduced Brady to Ty. Brady wanted an Irish offer more than anything, and NDukwe made it happen for him. Ty couldn't have deserved less credit for any of the recruits during his tenure.
I don't think you're very smart, by the way--just my observation. And you are certainly not on any real path towards becoming a journalist. Stick to baseless blogging, it becomes you."
What are you talking about???
The bottom line is... Ty Willingham RECRUITED Brady Quinn :)
End of story.
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Bert Hancock 9 months ago
Lisa, though I noted before that I've read a number of your archived articles, the sheer amount of responses to this one has me reviewing them.
Amidst the chaos in the replies, I smiled to see you also love the Celtics. Revealing my age, I loved 'em since they had John Havlicek in the 70s while a kid!
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Weston....I don't regurgitate what I hear on ESPN...in fact, they have been wrong so many times that I don't give them too much viewing time.
I watch football games, Spring practices etc and form my own opinion. That's why I get sent to the games to write about them. It's my opinion. But if my opinion sounds like what others are saying, you might want to consider that many analysts/writers are seeing the same thing through unbiased eyes.
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CJ Daley about 1 year ago
Really? Because I call another BS from you.
Just how much spring time did you watch for ND Lisa? The reason I ask is I am a huge ND fan are there was nothing more than drills for me to watch with paid subscriptions. How much of the B/G game did you catch Lisa? Were you in South Bend?
The simple fact is there have several posts by you that have incorrect statements. You also take assumptions that are proved to be bias or false.
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Jimson Cuenta about 1 year ago
"Really? Because I call another BS from you.
Just how much spring time did you watch for ND Lisa? The reason I ask is I am a huge ND fan are there was nothing more than drills for me to watch with paid subscriptions. How much of the B/G game did you catch Lisa? Were you in South Bend?
The simple fact is there have several posts by you that have incorrect statements. You also take assumptions that are proved to be bias or false."
What are you talking about, CJ???
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Spenser T. Harrison about 1 year ago
Wow this has sparked some intense debate, that i'm not going to get in the middle of haha. I think arguments can be made on all sides; i think its to early to judge yet so for now we'll have to wait and see with Clausen.
As for this frontrunner business it is quite convenient for a person to be a Redskins (3 superbowls), Raiders (3 superbowls), Florida (2 NC's), Celtics (most NBA championships), and USC (they have alot; prolly 8 or 9 i guess since I refuse to look it up out of fear i might throw up). So i'm guessing your from Cali or atteneded UF or USC; which would make sense. But how did the east coast teams come into play? Either way at the end of the day its your own buisness what teams you want to like so I could care less.
As for Len Bias: "Your heart sank while his exploded. Cocaine is a helluva drug." - Me
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Spens-
My daddy brainwashed me when I was little, hence the Celtics coming into play. (But I never fell for his beloved Yankees)
As far as the Redskins, well, don't laugh, but when I was a little kid, I picked the Redskins because they had the same colors as USC, plus I was conceived in DC. But my heart lies with the Raider Nation.
And yes, I went to USC. Make sense now?
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Spenser T. Harrison about 1 year ago
Well story checks out; my theory is that you generally like a team for 3 reasons
1. first team you watched or some arbitrary thing as a youth
2. home state city or school you attended
3. Dad or family's team
but there are alot of people on this site that have outrageously long lists of teams they like; not even a player on a team. For instance this drake kid (i don't care that he might be 12) who says in his bio...
"I am a GIANT fan of the colts....hate the patriots, bears, UCLA, Duke, N. Carolina, Ohio State, and Purdue...and my fav teams are the Orlando Predators, Indianpolis Colts, Arizona Cardinals, New York Giants, Detroit Lions, Washington Redskins, Chicago Cubs, Texas Longhorns, Indiana Hoosiers, Anahaiem Ducks, Denver Nuggets, Indiana Pacers, Dallas Mavericks, and the Iowa Hawkeyes..."
???????????????????????????????????? really
p.s. USC deserves another decade of shittiness for generally being whiny brat fans that don't care when their team sucks. but that goes for most of LA i suppose.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Weston....if you aren't willing to give Tyrone credit for Quinn, then don't give Weis credit for Clausen. He was quoted as saying he always wanted to go to ND. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Furthermore, Willingham has always been a top notch recruiter...Weis went BCS bowling with Ty's recruits. It's his coaching skills that were under fire.
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
Please find me that quote. I'll be anxiously awaiting. Even if he did say that, it was still a tough pull for Weis against Pete Carroll and the hometown Trojans.
As far as the recruiting comments go...wow. The only way I know how to gauge a coach's propensity for bringing in top talent is to look at each of his overall class rankings.
According to Rivals.com, each coaches' class rankings are as follows:
Willingham:
2003: 12
2004: 32
2005: 40
Weis:
2006: 8
2007: 8
2008: 2
Regardless of his head coaching abilities, Weis is widely recognized as one of the top recruiters in college football, while Willingham was responsible for two of the worst classes in ND football history. Notice how those terrible classes were our upper classmen during last year's debacle? After his 2003 class that included Quinn, Samardzija, Laws, and others, he left us with NOTHING.
I'd think if this was your profession, you'd take the time to do your research before you start aimlessly running your mouth. Until then, I have no choice but to group you with the other typical uninformed ND haters.
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David Williams about 1 year ago
Lisa, don't worry about that guy. Just a biased Notre Dame fan who's probably been frustrated about his school's football team for the past, like 10 years. While it may be a little early to consider Clausen overrated (due to the freshman factor, poor offensive line, injuries, etc. etc.), you surely bring up solid points. Eve for freshman standards, Clausen just didn't look very good.
This was especially big news because of his high expectations coming from high school. His recruitment was a circus and everyone thought he was going to be the next star. Sort of like the Terrelle Pryor situation, but I digress....
Also, Weston should be wary about comparing Clausen to Quinn. Quinn had a much better arm from the get-go, better mobility, and superior size. People knew he'd at least make the NFL, but no one can say that about Jimmy yet. If his name weren't so prominent, maybe his starting job would be in more jeopardy...
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
sigh...my hero! David Wunderlich! Thanks for the quick shrink session...I feel better now. Where do I send the check for your services? :)
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David Williams about 1 year ago
Haha, David Wunderlich is the other guy. Send the check to David Williams instead :)
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
"Also, Weston should be wary about comparing Clausen to Quinn. Quinn had a much better arm from the get-go, better mobility, and superior size."
...and even worse results than JC his frosh year.
Look, I concede that Clausen didn't look great last year. My point is that given the circumstances with his elbow and atrocious O-line, its way too early to judge his true talent and write him off. He finished the season on a strong note, had a fantastic spring, and has gotten a lot bigger/stronger, so I expect big things out of him this year (assuming he isn't throwing from his back 99% of the time).
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David Williams about 1 year ago
Makes sense. Although I'm biased when it comes to Quinn. He is a god in my eyes because he now plays for my Cleveland Browns. So basically, Quinn was the best college quarterback in the history of the universe
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
And I meant David Williams...gosh I wish we could edit comments. Sorry! It's late...I need to go to sleep. Sorry David.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
I sent you a note...I'm so sorry...I had just read Wunderlich's article and his last name was on my brain. Sorry. I'll send you a bonus check.
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Joe Beavers about 1 year ago
Lisa
That Weston guy's been correcting you this whole time. Replying to him makes you look even more uninformed then what you wrote in your original article. Please do a lot more research before commenting on anything that has to do with ND.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Joe-
Please cite where I have been misinformed? Where he has corrected me?
He cites recruiting rankings as proof that Weis was a better recruiter. Those rankings are put out before the players take the field. Weis recruits, so far, have paled in comparison to Ty's. Just whose recruits did Weis go to two BCS bowls with? Ty's.
Joe, have fun with your Irish this year. It should be a hilarious ride.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Weston-
Weis went to two BCS bowl games with Ty's recruits. What has he done since? 3-9. If you don't beat San Diego State by 30 points, you are going to have another bad season. SDSU is not playing well, and will be beat by 30+ pts by any elite program.
Get off the Hater bandwagon. That word is so yesterday. It's an ad hominem argument for someone who can't defend themselves or criticism so they call others "haters."
Try defending your team's 2007 record when Weis played his recruits. Let's hear you justify that.
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Colin Linneweber about 1 year ago
Lisa,
Don't listen to them....It was a good article....They're jackasses.
Colin
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Colin-
I wouldn't call them that! But it does get old when the Irish fans don't like an article and instead of just saying, "I didn't like it" or "I disagree", they instead say "do your research, you are mis-informed."
Funny, I did my research and stand by every statement made in the article. The problem is, they can't handle that, so they make blanket statements w/o any merit.....I have yet to see any Irish fan point out a mistake or misleading statement in the article. They can't. But they say I'm misinformed anyway.
That's hilarious!
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Tim Pollock about 1 year ago
Lisa,
Yet again, you have written an excellent article, and contrary to Joe's latest comment, you are owning these fools in the comments section as well.
Irish fans have some serious sour grapes.
My pick of the day.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Tim-
Thanks! And just think...we all get to watch ND this year every Saturday. I can't wait!
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Gary Lloyd about 1 year ago
Had I not already spent my pick of the day vote, it would be going here. Great stuff, Lisa!
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Jimson Cuenta about 1 year ago
I second this comment :)
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Mark Allen about 1 year ago
Lisa:
I am admittedly embarassed about the way in which Clausen went about announcing his commitment to Notre Dame. I really do think 99% of Clausen's 2007 season was due to the offensive line. I look for the line to be much improved this season. That, along with a much healthier Clausen, will be a better indicator of his ability.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Mark-
The o-line argument is a valid one...I even mentioned it in the article. What puzzles me is the way Weis didn't adjust his schemes. He is known as a guy who likes to pass, and against Georgia Tech, he didn't attempt a pass for what seemed like forever.
Now maybe that was to settle the quarterback down, and get him comfortable in the game. But when you have a weak O-line and constant pressure in the pocket, there are ways of countering that. Weis kept having the QBs drop back in the pocket which puzzled me. It befuddled me. I am just happy that they didn't get seriously hurt due to that.
Good luck to your Irish!
PS--re Jimmy's signing day fiasco...gotta blame the parents a little for not reeling it in a bit. I know he was excited and all, but in front of the HOF? His parents should have had a chat with him about that. But oh well..he can silence his critics if he has a great season this year, can't he?
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
What did Clausen do on Signing Day? You realize that Signing Day is always the first week in February, right? Prior to that recruits can't sign anything. They can only give their non-binding verbal committment to their school of choice.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Weston-
It was Tyrone's fault for last year?
Let me get this straight....Ty left you with two classes that got you two BCS bowl berths. In Weis' third year, which would have meant his recruits would have probably seen a lot of playing time, he went 3-9 and it's Ty's fault?
Can you not see the total myopic approach in your analysis?
Here's some food for thought- you lost to Navy last year. I guarantee you Ty's recruits playing last year were heads and shoulders above Navy's recruiting classes playing last year. So what's your excuse for losing to a team with no blue-chip talent and a vastly inferior recruiting class?
Who gets blamed for that one?
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
Ty's terribly ranked classes were the juniors and seniors on last year's miserable team. Coincidence?
Many of Weis' freshmen and sophomores showed a ton of promise and by the end of the year had replaced many of the hapless upper classmen (see Darrin Walls, Brian Smith, Kerry Neal, Ian Williams, Robert Hughes, Duval Kamara, Golden Tate, etc.). You do realize that Weis' oldest recruits were just true sophomores last year, correct?
No, all of the blame can't be placed on Willingham. Its certainly true that we lacked experienced talent, but we shouldn't have been that bad. Weis certainly made his fair share of mistakes last year. Based on what I saw from him in '05 and '06 I expect him to bounce back and build a solid team this year out of his young talent.
...and if you claim that Ty's recruiting was so great, how come Quinn and the rest of the guys looked so terrible under Ty in 2003 and 2004 and so great under Weis the following years? Furthermore, going by your approach, Ty's first and only year of success can be 100% credited to Bob Davie and his recruiting. None of it had to do with Willingham, the actual head coach during that time, correct?
Can YOU not see the total myopic approach in YOUR analysis? Weak.
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David Seibel about 1 year ago
Clausen should be significantly improved this year now that his arm is 100%. I think one of the main reasons he did not do well is the fact that he couldn't throw the deep ball. This caused more bodies to be concentrated in areas, and when that happens, passes will get broken up more or intercepted. This is also why I think Sharpley did a better job this past season, because he did have an arm and was able to spread the field more, but then again, he was also able to run for positive yards and Clausen has yet to prove he can do this on a consistent basis.
He also is grasping a better knowledge of the system, he has said that last year he was just trying to catch up with the plays and now everything is becoming clearer.
Also, the offensive line has gained some strength and should be able to protect clausen better. Clausen looked good in his final 3 games, and although it was against lesser opponents, it did show that clausen has the ability to make throws when his line gives him protection.
i personally believe was the reason for the 3-9 season last year was the fact that weis had the theory that by not getting into hitting in summer practices, it would rest his offensive lineman and they would be ready, when in fact it did just the opposite, they weren't physical enough and as a consequence didn't have a hitting practice until they were 0-3 after Michigan. Weis has since learned from his mistake and has had numerous hard-nosed hitting practices.
While I know this season won't lead to a BCS berth, I do predict a 7-8 win season and not the "hilarious ride" that you think it will be.
PS. Clausen has since said that he regrets doing the whole stretch limo thing and said it was over the top.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
A 7-8 win season would be a somewhat slight improvement, if you look at their schedule. An Irish team from 15 years ago would be undefeated with that schedule and in the NC game.
As far as Clausen, I read the exact opposite...he didn't regret the signing day incident and said "it's what I wanted to do."
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Chris D'Aniello about 1 year ago
Wow great article. And as for the comments, you're smoking those Irish-huggers. I was about to point out that as soon as you put him in his place, he fell right back on thse ad hominem arguments, but you already took care of it.
"-Point 1-"
"-Proves point 1 wrong-"
"YOU SMELL, YOU BANDWAGON STUPID-HEAD!"
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Chris-
I don't get why they are blaming Ty for last year's recruits. HE WAS FIRED IN NOVEMBER, and Weis was in Super Bowl prep for the two months following that. There was no head coach really recruiting for ND, thus the small class.
Why do the Irish fans forget that little detail? It was the school's fault, if anything, for that critical 3 month lapse from November to February.
Thanks for stopping by!
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Chris D'Aniello about 1 year ago
I couldn't tell you why. I guess because it's convinient? Whatever. Doesn't matter to me. Notre Dame will be on TV a bunch this season. Should be great to watch except that Lou Holtz will be picking them to go undefeated and win the Nation Championship.
No argument is even needed really. Simply, "Navy," will do just fine.
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Uncle Rico Touchdown Mountain about 1 year ago
Congratulations!
You now have claim to the most baseless article posted on this site.
Had you done even just a little research, you'd find that Clausen will show up much different than what you've seen in the past.
Along the lines of research, you'd have known that he was injured last year. Clearly you didn't do research, despite your claim. You'd also know that there is no QB that could have performed with such a young line. That was the sh*t sandwhich left behind by your pal, Ty Willingham.
You ask for mistakes/misleading statements. How about from the top:
1) Jimmy Claussen didn't rent the limo, he can't. You must be 25 years old in most states (Indiana is one of them) to rent a car. Had you done your research, you'd have known that his father was looking for a way to get the entire family from point A, to point B. Hummer happens to be an automobile manufactured in South Bend. Do you suppose that had it been in the Studebaker or Checker Cab days, those cars would have been more prefelent in the area?
2) You claim JC failed miserably. On what do you base "miserable"? Why the use of a poor infinitive? You brag about your reporting skills, yet you can't even get past basic journalism or proper grammar? Well, they happen to be the tools of your trade. Do you suppose a carpenter should know how to use a hammer?
3) Jimmy Clausen had a 103+ passer rating and 56+% completion success. That's failing miserably?
Most QBs would love to have that kind of success, injury or not.
4) You attribute comments to Demetrious Jones. Did you speak with him? Did you speak with medical experts on various sides and then choose an independant third party expert to interview? Heresay seems to be your favored tactic. Another nice piece of journalism.
5) You use heresay again with Weis. You mention a non-issue, "Spygate". Obviously inserting your personal opinion - which, given your propensity to lack journalism skills, is likely to be someone elses opinion that you picked up from the bastion of mental midgets known as "Sports Radio" or your cronies on the internet who are also wannabe journalists.
6) You lack research, put something out there just to hear yourself think (boy that echo must be loud!), and grandize your self-importance without informing yourself. Have you seen Jimmy Clausen in any workouts over the winter? How about this spring? How about this summer? Do you know if he's improved or gotten worse? Do you know anyone that has worked him out? Do you know, or have you personally interviewed any quarterback coaches or any experts on the matter? Or are you someone who lacks any semblence of journalism and just write down the random misinformation that pops into your head?
Read more, post less.
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Chris D'Aniello about 1 year ago
Miserably is an adverb saying how he failed. What the hell are you talking about in that little bullet point?
Navy.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Uncle-
In response to your post:
1- Clausen stated it was his idea to rent the limo. It doesn't matter who paid for it.
2- I can't get past basic journalism or grammar? Please point out these so-called mistakes. Otherwise, your statement is baseless.
3- Most quarterbacks would love that type of success? Partially TRUE! There were five teams that would have wanted better stats than Clausen out of 120 teams. FIVE.
4- Yes, I attributed comments to Demetrius Jones. Since I quoted him, and triple checked the quotes, those quotes are accurate. Whether they are true or not isn't the point. Jones was stating his opinion on the whole QB controversy.
5- Heresay on Weis? Matt Walsh was quoted as saying that Weis used helmet communication to let the QB know what defensive signals were called. "I know that we had a quarterback learning the signals and then relaying that information to Charlie, and Charlie would then call it in to the quarterback on the field, through the coach-to-quarterback communication system in the helmet." Is it true? Maybe. I used the word "alleged participation" to describe Weis during Spygate. Please read more carefully.
6- I lack research? You are the one who said, "That was the sh*t sandwhich left behind by your pal, Ty Willingham."
Talk about little research! Willingham was fired in November, and Weis was busy for the Super Bowl....just who was recruiting during that valuable time between November and February? No one...don't blame it on Ty. Blame it on the school. They messed up with Urban Meyer, and hired a coach who had post-season committments. But don't blame Ty. That excuse id getting real old.
You lost to Navy....and Michigan State. Cry me a river and yell Uncle. Tebow got dinged up a lot too last year, but look what he did. JD Booty, the QB for my team, had over 140 QB rating and I thought he was horrible. See? It's OK to admit when your team stinks. Or a player. Try it...the truth shall set you free.
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Tim Pollock about 1 year ago
Rico:
Your "read more, post less" comment is played out and overused. I see you have a whopping 4 articles to your credit and have garnered an impressive 19 total comments on those combined articles (sarcasm). Lisa has proven to be one of the best football writers on this site, so your criticism falls on deaf ears to those who visit this site often.
If this article is so "baseless," then write one of an opposing viewpoint.
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BabyTate about 1 year ago
It's about time for Notre Dame to beat Southern Cal again. No one really knows why these things happen, they just do.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Baby-
I have no doubt about that. Anything can happen in this great rivalry!
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Adam Amick about 1 year ago
Nice piece, Lisa. May inspire a "Failure to Launch" series on other sports... Can't think of what I'd write about... ;-)
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Greg Adams about 1 year ago
There's got to be a Raphy Palmeiro joke in there somewhere but...I...just...can't...find...it.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Aw Adam, come on....don't keep us in suspense. Failure to launch has unlimited potential! Could be some good radio fodder! ;)
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Anthony Pilcher about 1 year ago
I think, when veiwing college football, it is important to base observations and conclusions on the entire body of work. This article, and many others, doesn't seem to do that.
Claims have been made here and other places that Weis is over-rated as an offensive genius. That seems like a tough argument to make given the effusive praise he received from numerous defensive coordinators around the NFL, his Super Bowl rings, and the offensive production Notre Dame enjoyed over the 2005 and 2006 seasons. It seems that this type of claim is a knee-jerk reaction to the inept Irish offense of the 2007 season. The 2007 season for Weis was an aberation. It was not the norm, it was not indicative of a typical season for a Weis led offense.
Admittedly, you cannot simply "throw out" the results of 2007 because they were contradictory to previous seasons. Rather, I think 2007 has to be looked at as a data point with extenuating circumstances. All the other data points relative to Weis' offensive prowess support the "offensive guru" handle so oft applied to his name.
In 2007 Notre Dame started three new offensive lineman, none with significant playing experience. They played a front-loaded schedule against some decent-to-good defensive football teams. They started a true freshman quarterback for much of the year. They played freshman at multiple, key skill positions. They didn't have contact in practices. They were trying to learn new schemes and terminologies on offense (spread zone read) and defense (3-4). And they had a very young team by any standard.
I'm not saying Weis isn't to blame for some of those things. Installing a new offense and defense with a young team is a horrible idea. Ditto not having contact in practices. But many of the other things were simply out of his control.
I believe the offensive performance for the Irish in 2007 was due to all of these things acting as together, not any one of them. You'd be hard pressed to find a younger team, with a freshman quarterback, three new starters on the offensive line, and a tough, front-loaded schedule in the same year over the course of college football history. That certainly doesn't add up to 3-9, as you stated the Irish were still far more talented than Navy (and Air Force), but after such a terrible start it's easy to imagine that the players felt there wasn't much to play for.
I empathize with your sentiments regarding Weis not changing things to slow the opposing pass rush but with a freshman quarterback how much of the offense does he really know? I don't think any audibles or hot reads were installed in the offense last year and that exacerbated the quarterback protection problem(s). Doing the things Weis did with Quinn to keep defenses on their heels just wasn't an option.
But I certainly don't think you can say Clausen is over-rated at this point in time. With all the hype he came out of high school with, anything less than a stellar performance would have been a disappointment. He wasn't healthy, he had virtually no time to throw, and he had very few full-speed practice reps with the other players due to his injury. One year doesn't destroy what, up to now, has been a brilliant football career for Clausen. And if you believe that your agreement with other experts out there is supporting evidence that your conclusions have validity, consider every high school football talent scout who proclaimed Clausen the Lebron James of football. Could they all have been wrong?
I think some more time is needed to make a judgement on this one. It's rare for a true freshman quarterback at any program to come in and have a great year right away. It takes a quality, experienced offensive line and talent at the skill positions to make that happen. Clausen didn't have a whole lot of either last year but he will as time progresses.
And as far as Weis not being able to win with his recruits...that starts to go away this year and ends next year. Last year he was playing with many of his recruits, but they were still very young so I can see how Willingham's poor recruting-in both quality and quantity-in the upper classes is a viable excuse. I agree with Lisa about those that are rising seniors, they weren't really his or Willingham's recruiting class (although Willingham didn't leave him with much to work with when he came on board) due to the transition between him and Willingham.
I disagree with Lisa when she says that Willingham has always been a top notch recruiter. If you look at the rankings of his classes only Quinn's class stands out. And that includes his time at Stanford and Washington. The man is a lazy recruiter and his record proves it. Furthermore, Quinn's class of recruits really didn't make their mark until 2005, when they were juniors. Many of them went from no-name's in 2004 to stars in 2005 (Stovall, Samardzija, Quinn, Fasano, Zbikowski, et. al.). Some of this has to be attributed to better coaching by Weis and his staff. Weis has brought in three classes like Quinn's and they are starting to mature.
But this year's freshmen through junior classes will be Weis' guys. The team is still young, but the talent is there and if it doesn't begin to show up on the field the blame is on the current coaching staff and is evidence of their inability to develop those players they recruited.
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BabyTate about 1 year ago
Failure to launch- Greg Oden
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Jimson Cuenta about 1 year ago
What are you talking about???
Greg Oden is only 20 years old :)
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Uncle Rico Touchdown Mountain about 1 year ago
Is this a comedy?
1- Have you spoken to Clausen? If so, is this the entire quote or might it have been clipped?
2- I specifically point out the grammar and journalism mistakes (infinitives, generalizations, lack of quoting) and then you ask me to point them out.
3- Only 5 teams had better than a 103 QB rating and 56+%? Not according to NCAAfootball.com. What is your source please?
4- "Whether they are true or not isn't the point." Actually, it IS the point. All of your articles have this same modus operandi. It's very poor.
5- "Heresay on Weis? Matt Walsh was quoted as saying that Weis used helmet communication to let the QB know what defensive signals were called." Sorry sweetheart, you have given a textbook example of heresay. Do you have a degree? Use it.
6- Yes. You lack research. If you knew anything about recruiting, you'd know that relationships are established in the junior year of high school, and often before. Tyrone Willingham left the cupboard bare. Notre Dame had 8 players in what would have been his senior class at Notre Dame, 9 in his junior class. These recruits were not known as All-American type mentions. Ty Willingham had the two worst recruiting seasons in Notre Dame history. As bad as Blahb Davie was, he still had classes in the top 15. Ask your friends at Mountlake what they think of your friend Tyrone Willingham. They thought their program couldn't get any worse. He has not only made it worse, he has darkened the future. That's pretty much a sh*t sandwhich.
In your latter paragraph, you mention Tim Tebow & Josh Booty. Had you switched either with Clausen, it's doubtful they would have numbers as good as a healthy Clausen. You stick JC behind the lines that they had and even you argued in your earlier paragraphs evidence that he'd have success.
I doubt you have enough honor to come back here after this season and admit you are wrong. If you are right, I will eat crow. I have no doubt that I will not have to do so. You are much like the ESPN crowd who claimed ND would be 0-6 to start 2005. You are squawking based on opinion and not fact.
Now back to your bon-bons and your Oprah show. Enjoy.
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Chris D'Aniello about 1 year ago
First of all: it's "hearsay".
Second, it's not hearsay if she's not trying to prove that what Walsh said is true. And she's not. She even says "alleged". So don't try to act like a genius, Mr. "Heresay".
Third, this is what you say contains a "poor infinitive" and improper grammar: JC failed miserably. Where is this terribly awful grammar? I don't see anything wrong.
Fourth, what about Ty's recruits that carried Weis to two BCS bowls?
Now back to your 2nd grade grammar book and your Twinkies. Enjoy.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Rico-
1-The quote is well-documented, and used by the press. It has been verified. Too bad if you don't like it. The possibility of your coach being a cheat exists. Deal with it. Pete Carroll may have cheated with the Bush-gate at USC. I deal with it.
2-No, you did not point out any specific grammar mistakes. You generalized.
3- I used passing offense as a basis, not QB ratings. But since you asked, Clausen had a better QB rating than 4 other QBs- Stanford's, Idaho's, Florida International's and UAB's. Here is the link:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/sortables?stat=pass&sort=rat&season=3&year=2007&group=80
Any questions?
4- I quoted him and his opinion. An opinion is never right or wrong. Geesh. It's an opinion. Quit trying to equate opinion with fact. Jones stated his opinion on Weis. You can choose to believe it or not, but you can't sit there and say he is right or wrong based on data. It's an opinion.
5- Sweetie? Oh I get it. You're just ticked because I'm a girl and get paid to write. How novel.
6- and if you knew anything about recruiting, the most critical time is the 60 days before SLOID. Recruits change their minds if they feel they aren't getting enough communication from a school, if other players in the same position are being drafted, or if they have little communication with the coach. There's a reason why so many recruits change their minds the week leading up to SLOID.
Of course I'll be here after the season.
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Shaun Ahmad about 1 year ago
** 2- I specifically point out the grammar and journalism mistakes (infinitives, generalizations, lack of quoting) and then you ask me to point them out.
To be fair, an article doesn't need to have a barrage of quotes for it to be a good piece. It is true that there is nothing better for a story than to interview the actual people you will be writing about. However, if we stick to that basis, it would be near impossible for some of our favorite writers to ever write a "credible" story.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Shaun-
Good points! I have interviewed coaches and players, but what Uncle Rico doesn't understand is that after a press conference, the press gets a sheet with all of the quotes from the players and coaches. We all use the same quotes....so if the quote is used by the press, it usually has been verified by the schools SID.
You don't have to interview a player to get a quote, although it's preferred. When I covered the Spring game at UCLA, I was interviewing Neuheisel on the field but Ben Olson was giving interviews also. You can't be in two places at the same time when its not in a controlled environment (like a press conference).
Hence, a list of quotes from the school comes in handy. (although during Spring games, they don't offer the quotes. You have to rely on your voice recorder.)
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Uncle Rico Touchdown Mountain about 1 year ago
Shaun,
Lisa wants to make you believe the quotes she's using are from a press conference. They are not.
If they were, they would be archived on the internet.
In her comment below, she wants you to think that I'm un familliar with the process. In fact, I've been on both sides of it. I have been a sports editor at a major paper, and I have worked as an SID at a Division 1 school who had football among many other men's and women's sports.
I am familliar with the quotes. They are not from a press conference. They are from two particular "journalists" who did not seek both sides of a story. In fact, after having interviewed several of the unsuspecting athletes that have been subject to these "journalists" they were given leading questions. Is this common? Yes. Is it right for an experienced writer to put a teenager in such a corner? No.
Another telling argument is that most programs do not allow Frosh to speak to the press in a presser. Gee, I wonder how these quotes were attained. Certainly not through responsible journalism.
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Greg Adams about 1 year ago
Lisa's right. I wrote a North Carolina basketball piece based on nothing but the "quote sheet." They are truly fantastic.
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Tim Pollock about 1 year ago
Rico:
Let's see all these amazing credentials. Let's see your work. What school were you SID for? Why did you leave?
What major paper were you sports editor of? Again, why did you leave?
Did "Go back to bon bons and Oprah" comments show up in your paper? Classy, by the way.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Anthony-
Now that was well thought out and articulate! I do believe Tyrone was a good recruiter, however. I don't tend to put a lot of stock in recruiting rankings.
Scout.com and others rate prospects in a funny way. If you have a recruit that has offers from some MAC schools, he may get two stars. The second he gets an offer from a BCS school, his star value goes up. There have been numerous studies on this phenom and cases have shown where a three or four star player's star value goes up immediately after he gets an offer from a Florida or Notre Dame. Why should his value change?
It doesn't indicate how good a player is, and is purely subjective. Jeff Byers, a USC player, was a five star and has not done well, albeit he was injured a lot.
I tend to judge recruiting classes on performance on the field. Ron Zook was a tremendous recruiter, and gave Urban Meyer a wealth of talent to produce that NC team. Like TY, his coaching abilities were under intense scrutiny. But look how he has fared in the Big Ten. Pretty nice going to the Rose Bowl.
I also believe through mentorship and good training that highly-touted freshmen can start right away. Matt Grothe, who red shirted his freshman year, was named rookie of the year in the Big East, and beat West Virginia.
Matt Stafford rec'd numerous awards in his freshman year. Colt Brennan broke 11 records his first year at Hawai'i. The list goes on. It all depends on the head coach's ability to mentor the player.
Weis' biggest problem is that he doesn't seem to relate to these young players. Weis has never had any head coaching experience (except for one high school head coach job) and is used to dealing with grown men. These players are boys, and he needs to connect better. If he can fix that, ND will have a better season.
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Anthony Pilcher about 1 year ago
I agree that, at least partially, the crux of the issue with Weis will be how he better learns to connect with younger players. He seemed to connect well with Quinn, et. al. his first two seasons. But, as Weis has stated, a freshman/sophomore and junior/senior are very different people. I think Weis' realizes this now and, to be perfectly honest, I think it took a disaster like last season for such an arrogant person to do so. He may still underestimate the extent to which this can be a problem, but 3-9 tends to wake you up.
As for the recruiting rankings, I don't disagree either. Projecting high school football talent to the college level is a risky and uncertain endeavor. Many high school players outperform their peers via sheer athleticism, not football acumen. This only proves talent, not that they are football players. However, I do believe that star rankings do carry some weight. If you go look at drafts in the past a large percentage of the first round players are 4/5 stars as rated by recruiting services.
I don't believe Willingham has ever produced an exceptional on-the-field product anywhere in his career but that is a different argument for a different time. Ditto Zook. Like I said, you have to look at the whole body of work, not just one year like 2002 for Willingham and 2007 for Zook. Consistency is the name of the game in coaching. Just look to your hometown Trojans and Pete Carroll.
The quarterbacks you named aren't fair comparisons to Clausen in many respects. At a position like quarterback you can't simply compare one to the other. Too much depends on the players around him, the style of offense, and the competition. Grothe had a more experienced team, Ditto Stafford with some more talent, and Brennan didn't face anywhere near the same competition. I also don't believe Grothe and Brennan were true freshman, there may have been some previous JUCO or redshirt experience in there. I didn't look it up though.
My only hard and fast stipulation is that it is too soon to rush to judgement on Clausen. I think people, myself included, tend to react to recent history regarding college footall, both positive and negative. Many claimed the Irish were ready to contend in 2006 but that was only because of their surprising 2005 season. If you looked at the lack of depth at key positions and tougher slate of defensive teams it wasn't a shock that 2006 was "disappointing" relative to the pre-season #2 ranking. The irony is that the same people that ranked the Irish #2 pre-season were also the ones saying they were over-rated later in the year. It makes for a nice job when you can criticize a team for the lofty expectations you placed on them.
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Uncle Rico Touchdown Mountain about 1 year ago
Simply Beautiful!
I have not read such comedy in quite some time.
"I do believe Tyrone was a good recruiter, however. "
Intersting belief. I wonder what it's based on. Especially since both Washington and Notre Dame usually battle the likes of USC, Michigan, Texas, Florida, Ohio State for recruits. However, under Shi Ty Willingham, they go up against such recruiting powers like Ball State, Idaho, Western Washington, etc. Ty is such a great recruiter he had the two worst recruiting years at one particular school, and at the next, still does not have a comittment from anyone for the current recruiting class.
"Weis' biggest problem is that he doesn't seem to relate to these young players."
Hmmm... is that why he was able to keep an entire class together after a 3-9 season? This same class was regarded by most recruiting experts as the #1 class in the nation last year. A handful of recruiting experts rated it as #2 behind Alabama because Alabama signed 32 kids, more than the limit of acceptances allowed by the NCAA. Not all of those kids will be enrolled by Alabama, therefore they can still sign the kid to a scholarship. Charlie Weis can't relate to young players but each of his 3 recruiting classes have been #5, #8, #1 (or 2). The last being after a 3-9 season.
Lisa, I apologize. I take back everything I said about your lack of credibility. Your articles are well thought out. They are poignant. You even think about interviewing your subjects before deciding not to. Your thoughts are very concrete and you never use any general globalizations. You are always fair and balanced in your opinion because you weigh things considerably. Further, you are the consumate journalist you look at both sides of a story and well research it. You don't use the "Well, I triple checked it" excuse because you know that sources can be wrong. Other writers look for quotes that back up their slant or opinion before they write instead of doing some actual research and an interview and then looking for sources that might contradict their opinion. You would never do something like that. You are very credible because you have a keyboard and a curling iron. You continue putting out those fine Pulitzer Prize-worthy pieces. You are the consumate professional!
Enjoy your bon-bons while you watch Oprah today. [/sarcasm]
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Brian Hansen about 1 year ago
As an alumnus of Notre Dame, unabashed fan of the Fighting Irish and lover of all things college football, I have almost no qualms with this opinion piece.
Notre Dame was atrocious last year. Jimmy deserves some of the blame, so does Weis, so does the O-line and the D-line and the linebackers and the tight ends and the long snapper, you get the idea. Team, everyone shares in the blame.
And I have no problem with you writing off Jimmy after one season. Free speech is a wonderful thing.
I also appreciate that Notre Dame football means so much to you (good or bad, I suspect bad) that you would devote time during the summer to take a stance with regards to its most important player. That takes true dedication, as I doubt you'd find too many Domers writing about Joe McKnight this off-season.
That being said Lisa, you've done a good job responding to the less rational Irish fans without resorting to pithy name calling and I believe you've done a decent job defending your claims.
However, this paragraph stood out to me, "Despite visions of 2008 BCS bowl bids dancing in leprechaun's heads, Clausen showed little sign of having made a lot of progress—except for lack of soreness on his throwing arm—during Spring practice, according to the Irish's fans on Internet message boards."
I would not be surprised if you could show me a message board where someone wrote that Clausen has shown little sign of improvement. There are, in my best estimation, dozens (hundreds?) of message boards, blogs, etc relating to Notre Dame, let alone college football. Now, I am not too sure how many of these people actually watched spring practice. Notre Dame, as I am sure is commonplace for most other college football teams, do not allow the media or for that matter, fans, show up and watch all of spring practice. Notre Dame does however allow one practice session in which the media is allowed to watch the entire thing. From that session, we received reports that Jimmy threw touchdown passes in three of his first four snaps. Brian Hamilton, who is the Chicago Tribune beat reporter for Notre Dame wrote the following for SI.com,
"They likely didn't comprehend the context immediately, because few were there two weeks earlier for Notre Dame's other open practice of the spring. Maybe halfway through drills that began at 7:30 a.m. that day, the offense faced the defense, full-tilt, in the red zone. And Jimmy Clausen threw three touchdown passes on the first four snaps.
The sequence was as eye-opening as the free coffee in the lobby of the Guglielmino Athletics Complex and arguably more necessary. It suggested the presence of an anchor, a calm where matters had been, to use Irish coach Charlie Weis' own word, "chaotic" a year earlier."
Therefore, I respectfully disagree with your assertion that Clausen hasn't shown improvement since the end of last season.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Hey there...thanks for being the typical Irish fan I know-classy and knowledgeable. By the way, my dad went to ND on an athletic scholarship and my Grandpa helped build the stadium. I'm far from a hater. I respect Notre Dame more than you will ever know. But I also will kick their legs if I feel they are going down the wrong path.
As far as the message boards, go to RockReport.com. Right after the Spring practice, you will see the moanings of the fans. I base many of my assertions from that site. It's a solid site, and one of my faves.
While Clausen may have thrown passes in the Spring practice the media watched, from what I read, the Spring "Game" looked eerily similar to last season's team. I wasn't there, but I know Irish fans, and if there were upset at the Spring Game, then there were problems. Their comments echoed that alarm.
Good luck to your Irish!
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Anthony Pilcher about 1 year ago
Lisa, I was at the Spring Blue and Gold game and I would have to say that what I saw from Clausen was a night and day difference from the 2007 season. I wouldn't say the same about all the Irish offensive positions (I still think the offensive line has room for great improvement) but Clausen showed me he has the "right stuff" as they say. His mobility was improved, he threw with good accuracy, and his arm strength (my biggest concern) is no longer a question mark in my mind. It seems to me that his injury was far more than Weis ever made it to be.
While he was still inconsistent at times he made some throws that very few quarterbacks can make. I expect inconsistent from young players adjusting to the college game. After this year, or later into the 2008 season, I would expect him to improve on that consistency or his ceiling may be reached.
For those who say he did not play well or that he was still the 2007 version of himself I would speculate that they had a difficult time separating how his offensive line and receivers played versus how he played. There were 4-5 throws that were dropped by his receivers and, at times, he still faced a good deal of pressure.
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Joe G about 1 year ago
Lisa,
Great read, I've enjoyed all of the stuff of yours I've read so far. But you forgot one crucial thing...
Ty Willingham is the scourge of humanity, and just about everything bad to ever happen can be laid at his feet.
I'm with you, the Irish are losing with Weis' recruits, and it's surprising, because a school with Notre Dame's reputation should in theory be BCS contenders every year. Or maybe the ol' Dome is losing its luster. Maybe Jimmy Clausen isn't the savior of the program, maybe he's just bad.
On another note, about the time MSU visited ND last season, I was hearing rumors (probably unfounded) that Clausen was getting sacked so often because his o-line hated him.
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
The whole "winning with Ty's recruits" arguments is so weak. Here is the response I posted above addressing this argument that may have gotten lost in between all these new posts:
Ty's terribly ranked classes were the juniors and seniors on last year's miserable team. Coincidence?
Many of Weis' freshmen and sophomores showed a ton of promise and by the end of the year had replaced many of the hapless upper classmen (see Darrin Walls, Brian Smith, Kerry Neal, Ian Williams, Robert Hughes, Duval Kamara, Golden Tate, etc.). You do realize that Weis' oldest recruits were just true sophomores last year, correct?
No, all of the blame can't be placed on Willingham. Its certainly true that we lacked experienced talent, but we shouldn't have been that bad. Weis certainly made his fair share of mistakes last year. Based on what I saw from him in '05 and '06 I expect him to bounce back and build a solid team this year out of his young talent.
...and if you claim that Ty's recruiting was so great, how come Quinn and the rest of the guys looked so terrible under Ty in 2003 and 2004 and so great under Weis the following years? Furthermore, going by your approach, Ty's first and only year of success can be 100% credited to Bob Davie and his recruiting. None of it had to do with Willingham, the actual head coach during that time, correct?
Can YOU not see the total myopic approach in YOUR analysis? Weak.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
joe...I don't think Clausen is bad at all. He obviously has talent...but he was over-hyped. Thanks for the props.
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Brian Hansen about 1 year ago
That being said, you are, with all due respect, crazy if you think Ty was/is good at recruiting. Ty is more worried about his short game than pounding the pavement to get recruits. Ty is the president of the American Football Coaches Association. And isn't it funny (odd, peculiar, sad?) that the first order of business when he became president was to not allow head coaches to recruit during the spring. Now he can play 36 everyday during the spring and when anyone accuses him of not recruiting, well his hands were tied (to his 9-iron).
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Jimson Cuenta about 1 year ago
Of course, Ty Willingham was NEVER good at recruiting... But we all have to ACCEPT the FACTS that Ty recruited Brady Quinn, and that Charlie Weis WON with Ty's recruits :)
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Michael Shibley about 1 year ago
Lisa,
Great article as always. Don't worry about arguing with ND fans. It's like trying to reason with Big Ten fans, which I tried to do and just got people calling me a moron and adding nothing else to the conversation.
One thing I thought you could've done was compare Jimmy to his brother Casey Clausen.
In 2000, after Tee Martin had graduated, the Vols were looking for a new QB. It has been told that Casey would've started the first game as a freshman but he had an injury and the Tennessee coaching staff held back his start until the Alabama game halfway through the season.
You have to wonder if the ND coaching staff should have done the same.
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Brian Hansen about 1 year ago
Michael,
I agree that it would have been better to have a fully healthy Clausen before he got into the game. Unfortunately D. Jones' head just wasn't in the game and Sharpley's future lies in baseball. So if they were going to be terrible (which they were), why not get the kid the experience. Hopefully it will benefit him this up-coming season.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Weston-
Your Irish pals defended Clausen as being young and inexperienced as one of the reasons why he didn't fare well. OK, I agree with that as being one of the reasons, and stated such in the article.
Then why can't you also give Quinn the same benefit of the doubt? Instead, you blame Tyrone's coaching skills as the reason why he didn't do well his first two years.
As far as Tyrone, heck, I never said he was a great coach. I said he was a good recruiter...but I do think he wasn't treated fairly by the school when you compare his record versus Weis'.
I don't get you at all. Sorry.
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
You clearly just don't understand recruiting. No big deal I guess, but you should steer clear of mentioning anything having to do with that topic in future articles, in my humble opinion.
Its simply fact that Ty is regarded as one of the worst recruiters in college football. His 2003 class at ND did produce some star power, but the following two classes were two of the worst in ND football HISTORY...evidenced both in terms of rankings (32nd and 40th ranked classes in nation), and on the field (name me some great players from those two classes please).
Before you start bashing Weis' highly touted recruits, keep in mind that the oldest guys were only sophomores last year and that even the good players from Willingham's first class at ND didn't show much promise until their junior campaigns.
If you can't see the astronomical difference between Weis in Ty in terms of recruiting only, then I suppose there really is no point in continuing this debate.
My honest advice? Stick to the sappy, nostalgic "What it means to be a college football fan!?@!" articles rather than venturing out into topics that you really haven't a clue about.
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Brian Hansen about 1 year ago
Lisa,
I apologize for calling you crazy. That was unnecessary. Too much coffee this morning.
I still think Ty was really really really atrociously terrible at recruiting, you know, if I didn't make the clear...
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Brian- Ha! I am crazy...good call. No worries. I have thick skin! You're a good guy. No apology necessary. Ty recruited Jake Locker at Washington...remember that name. He's another Dennis Dixon, but was hurt last year. I'm not a big Ty fan, just so you know. But he was unfairly treated in South Bend.
I have relatives that live there and I can tell you first hand that I heard from many Irish fans, when I was out there, that Ty "wasn't Notre Dame material." Read into that however you may, but I think he showed a tremendous amount of class in not suing them for racial discrimination. He would have had a strong case, considering Weis' extension.
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Jimson Cuenta about 1 year ago
"I have relatives that live there and I can tell you first hand that I heard from many Irish fans, when I was out there, that Ty "wasn't Notre Dame material." Read into that however you may, but I think he showed a tremendous amount of class in not suing them for racial discrimination. He would have had a strong case, considering Weis' extension."
Lisa, I DEFINITELY AGREE with you on this one... IF I were Ty Willingham, I would have FILED A LAWSUIT against the University of Notre Dame, for racial discrimination :)
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Brian- Ha! I am crazy...good call. No worries. I have thick skin! You're a good guy. No apology necessary. Ty recruited Jake Locker at Washington...remember that name. He's another Dennis Dixon, but was hurt last year. I'm not a big Ty fan, just so you know. But he was unfairly treated in South Bend.
I have relatives that live there and I can tell you first hand that I heard from many Irish fans, when I was out there, that Ty "wasn't Notre Dame material." Read into that however you may, but I think he showed a tremendous amount of class in not suing them for racial discrimination. He would have had a strong case, considering Weis' extension.
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
Racial discrimination? Under what grounds? Is that you, Jason Whitlock?
Weis was given an extension during his FIRST year amidst an excellent campaign on the gridiron and rumors about being courted for big bucks in the NFL. I agree that it was premature, but given the circumstances, ND thought it had the next big thing at head coach and didn't want CW to slip away.
The fact that this could even be considered racial discrimination speaks volumes about the state of our country.
By the way, you realize that when people in the media such as yourself repeatedly bash ND for "unfairly firing a black coach", you are making it that much more difficult for black coaches to get hired in the future, right?
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Uncle Rico Touchdown Mountain about 1 year ago
Tyrone Willignham's firing had nothing to do with race.
The media made a huge deal out of his firing b/c of his color. His color had ZERO to do with it. As a matter of fact, I would argue that ND HIRED him didn't they? They wanted him to succeed. Why in the hell would they want him to fail. If you remove color, Zook and Ty are both head coaches in the NCAA and while both had the same record, Zook was canned way before his team had a chance to get halfway through the season... Where was the outrage for ZOOK!
Here's a fitting quote from a UW fan on Dawgman.com:
"If anybody out there still thinks he's a decent coach after being arguably the worst coach in the history of two BCS programs, then I think there's still some need for working to make them aware of exactly how bad he's been for our program. Not only that, but also how difficult it's been to get rid of him. These are things that it's fair to tell somebody ahead of time. "
You may want to use that site as reference for what people think of Ty. It has no Notre Dame slant.
There was also an article written by a SF newspaper when Ty lef Stanford that is pretty telling.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/01/01/SP19900.DTL
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Spenser T. Harrison about 1 year ago
Pulling the race card or patriotism card is the last bastion of a scoundrel or someone who has lost an argument. Lisa you should know this, and you're better than that.
Charlie Weiss got an extension because he basically held them at Ransom. He essentialy took a contract offer from an NFL team, too the AD and the boosters and said if I don't get an extension or similiar pay I'm jumping ship.
Now some would say this is wrong but with NCAA's hisotry of firing people on a whim he's looking out for his financial well-being. Honorable? That comes down to opinion.
Now considering he had just completed two good seasons and Notre Dame's fan base, boosters, and everyone associated with the team is desperate for a return to glory you should understand why such measures were taken. They knew there were people in the NFL courting him so they decided to make a move. Perhaps premature but I can understand why.......TY seems like a nice guy; but nice guys generally finish last in the coaching world, especially nice guys that can't recruit.
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Brian Hansen about 1 year ago
Lisa,
I cannot believe your father allowed you to attend USC. He should have to give his monogram back :). Also, I wanted to let you know that I feel the same about most USC fans I know - classy and knowledgeable.
Did you know that a Domer and Son of Troy started this site?
I *hope* that most ND fans only hate USC for four hours one Saturday each fall, and that they can separate their hatred of their gridiron rivals on the field from the school, the players, the coaches and the fans. Plus Reggie Bush was freaking awesome. Sean Payton needed to hire Norm Chow. GD UCLA for actually getting a quality coach.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
My dad went to ND, the did masters at USC. He is a USC fan. Like all Domer and Troy fans, he has great respect for ND, but for four hours every October they are the hated ones.
I have always had a blast in South Bend.
True story: I walked into this bar across from the stadium called the Linebacker (or was it quarterbacker?) and had a license plate hanging around my neck. The plate said: 55to24, the score of the '74 USC-ND game.
An Irish fan walked up to me and said,"did you make that in prison yourself?" I looked him square in the eyes and said "Buy me a drink. I'm scared to death to be in here."
He laughed, and I hung out with some of the most hardcore football fans I have ever encountered. We talked smack, and had a great time. One invited me to dinner at his mom's house after the game.
Now that's a great time! The Irish fans love football, and are the most knowledgeable when it comes to understanding football. They can be myopic though, as seen here in the comments section. I think it's a guilt thing...they're afraid to incur the wrath of God if they say anything negative about their team.
Me? If my team stinks, I scream about it. It's good for you to vent. :)
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Uncle Rico Touchdown Mountain about 1 year ago
Brian,
Can you guys install an IGNORE feature on your site?
That way I don't have chance to come across this crap.
By the way, very nice of you to be a member of this site for 2 years and have your first post today.
Perhaps you've been too busy with the administrative side?
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Weston-
"Its simply fact that Ty is regarded as one of the worst recruiters in college football."
Says who? Please cite for me the basis for that "fact." Ranked 32nd and 40th is the worst? There are 119 teams plus one probie in FBS. My math skills tell me that there were 87 and 79 teams with better classes.
You offer me advice? No thanks. I'm doing just fine by myself. You keep making general statements with no specific data to back it up, like the quote at the beginning of this comment. Thank goodness you are not a journalist. I back everything up with some sort of basis, something you need to learn, to be more credible.
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Paul T about 1 year ago
Fact: Willingham did have some AWFUL recruiting classes considering the school he worked for. When you are at Notre Dame 30th and 40th ranked recruiting classes dont cut it
Fact: Tyrone spent more time on the golf course than he did coaching and recruiting
Fact: Jimmy... or as I know him... James Clausen battled through injury last season and had possibly the worst offensive line assembled in the history of football at any level
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
Lisa...can you try to keep things in perspective for once? Keep in mind that these 32nd and 40th ranked classes were happening at NOTRE DAME. The name alone should allow for a top 25 class. ND could recruit better than Alabama-Birmingham or San Diego State without a head coach at all. Try to be realistic here.
You back everything up with "some sort of basis?" I'll give that to you, if you admit that your "basis" is typically false and/or from a recent Jason Whitlock/Jay Mariotti column. If I had to guess based on your articles and subsequent comments, you were probably just given some low level position because you are a female that enjoys writing about football. Thats somewhat rare in this day and age, and hey...FoxSports has to fill a quota somehow, no?
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Uncle Rico Touchdown Mountain about 1 year ago
You constantly pull things out of context #32 & #40 are the worst classes in Notre Dame history. It matters not that you try to impress us with your ability to count to 119.
You constantly use strawman arguments to back up your incompetence.
To paraphrase Dan Akroid in a famous line from Saturday Night Live, "Lisa, you ignorant SLUT!"
Just stop already.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Weston-
Give me a break. Weis won all the games he was supposed to win those first two years. Tyrone, in 2002, beat eight teams, of which six were bowl-bound. Weis got an extension because he almost beat USC.
Furthermore, Tyrone inherited players for a rushing attack offense, but wanted to run a West Coast or Pro set. He didn't have the players to succeed and should have been given more time. Weis, on the other hand, inherited players perfect for his offensive scheme. Two different comparisons, but one that gets ignored. A lot.
Rich Rod will have the same problem at Michigan as Tyrone did. Michigan doesn't have the right players for the spread, even if it is a run spread. Hopefully, they give him five years to get it set.
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
So excuses are valid for Ty but not Weis? As a "professional", I'd think you'd be well aware of the concept of double standards.
I guess Weis inherited "pro style offense" players, but aside from a handful of guys from the 2003 class, none of them were really any good. This is where recruiting comes into play again. Given that you haven't the slightest clue about this particular subject, I won't try to explain it in depth AGAIN.
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
All the games he was "supposed to win?" You're memory seems to be pretty shoddy here. Weren't most experts picking ND to have a losing record that year? Lee Corso, in fact, predicted ND to start 0-6.
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Paul T about 1 year ago
This line also shows you have no idea what you are talking about:
"The irony is there. Clausen simply didn't move well around the pocket last season and was sacked. A lot."
If you took the time to watch Notre Dame games would know that there was no pocket for him to move around in. Its not possible for any QB to succeed when you have 2 seconds from snap to when the entire defensive line is in the backfield.
But go ahead just writing what everyone says. Dont watch the tape. Dont for your own opinion.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Paul-
Unfortunately, I had to watch ND play every Saturday. I saw a QB not make reads and panic. I saw a quarterback become unglued. Your NBC contract allows us "hacks" to watch ND football every week. Nice try with that "you didn't watch the game" excuse.
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Paul T about 1 year ago
Most quarterbacks come unglued when they have 2 seconds to throw. Most Qb's come unglued when they have no faith in their left tackle protecting their blindsides. I rarely saw him panic and not make reads that were there. Perhaps we should chalk this up to your lack of knowledge of the game. You see a QB get sacked and automatically assume it is his fault. Very good logic. I can see you are putting that SC education to good use.
The fact of the matter is the whole offense was set up to fail with the way Weis handled the qb situation before the season. He tried to install 2 offenses... one with the inept DJ... another that was to be led by a true freshman. Weis refused to shuffle the O-line... continually allowed Sullivan's below average play to slide... refused to allow his young play making wide receivers see the field. Sure Clausen didn't break any records... but he is not some bust who should take all the blame. Perhaps reading a book on the basics of the game will allow you to write better articles in the future.
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Lisa Horne about 1 year ago
Weston-
Low-level position? That's an insult. I did live Super Bowl commentary for MSN.com..is that low-level? Look, I don't care if you disagree with me, but keep the personal insults out of it.
If ND's recruiting should be top 25 on name alone, then I guess having a coach who can't recruit well isn't that important, now is it? Clausen was going to ND no matter what. Meeting Weis the first day of his senior year was a bonus. But Clausen was sold on Notre Dame plus he knew with Quinn gone, he could start immediately. It doesn't take a rocket-scientist to figure that out.
And yes, Ty may have been discriminated against. But he's smart, and chose not to play that card.
As far as his golf antics, well what about Weis last Summer? He spent the Summer writing a book and suing for medical malpractice.
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Uncle Rico Touchdown Mountain about 1 year ago
"And yes, Ty may have been discriminated against. But he's smart, and chose not to play that card. "
Please post this on Dawgman.com.
It's been slow over there and I'm sure people could use a good laugh.
If you've ever listened to a Ty Willingham interview, you would know that Ty is not smart.
He makes Mike Tyson look like a genious.
Since you're quick to put your legal opnion into play, please state the legal grounds for discrimination in this case.... especially since you seem to know it so well.
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Weston Hull about 1 year ago
I'm still waiting on that quote about Clausen claiming he was going to go to ND his entire life...
You're right. Weis suing for medical malpractice (keep in mind the guy bled for several days and almost died before the doctors knew about it and did anything) is exactly the same thing as Ty perfecting his short game instead of burning up the recruiting trail. Nice comparison.
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