You have to understand, these past few weeks have been rough for me. You see, I'm a Los Angeles Lakers fan. I'm proud to admit it. I have been since 1988 (Magic's last championship).
This year, for the first time in my history as a Lakers fan, I questioned my team. I wondered whether or not they were capable of playing the game of basketball. I was disappointed. I was angry.
I wanted to call Pau Gasol and tell him to play with some fire in his soul. I wanted to sit Lamar Odom down and force him to watch tape of his days with the Clippers. I wanted to write an e-mail to Phil Jackson telling him to stop changing the line-ups that Lakers fans had become accustomed to winning with.
Most of all, I wanted to meet with Kobe Bryant and explain to him—if you drive, you WILL score. That was my biggest problem. Why weren't the Lakers forcing the issue and driving to the basket—creating easy opportunities for themselves?
This responsibility fell on Kobe, in my mind. And I, like many basketball fans of all teams, began to wonder if he was really as good as I've believed him to be—if he's really on the cusp of being just as good as—or even better than—Michael Jordan.
I remember being in high school and learning about history. We learned of "great men" like Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, and many others.
Most of these men were great. In fact, all of them were. But they were great because their era allowed them to be great. They excelled above others because no one during their time could rise to the standards they set.
Would we consider a modern Thomas Jefferson, a slaveowner who claims that all men are created equal, a hero or a flip-flopper?
That’s the type of question that history often overlooks—and the same is true for Michael Jordan. We as a basketball community have simply overlooked the advantages Michael Jordan had in his era.
It is my firm belief that if prime Michael Jordan played in the NBA today that he'd be undeniably a great player, a superstar. But we'd be comparing him to Kobe and LeBron trying to determine which out of the three is the best. Plain and simple: in today's game Jordan would not be the clear-cut GOAT.
I went back to my library here at home, dug through the tapes, thoroughly searched my hard drive, and explored the Internet to find as much footage as I could of Michael Jordan.
What can be derived from my research is that defenses are simply more complex today (NOTE: I love saying simply and complex in the same sentence). Due to rule changes zone defenses are stronger. Due to the evolution of human beings and the game itself, players are smarter and more athletic.
When you watch Jordan play there is no doubt that he is better than everyone else on the court. He's more athletic, over time he developed a higher basketball IQ, and he's more talented than everyone else. This is not Jordan's fault. In the same token, it's not the fault of players before, during, or after the Jordan era.
Jordan saw double teams a lot—but not nearly as often as the superstars of today. One look at this years NBA finals and you'll see Kobe Bryant being soft doubled, and then any movement whatsoever garners a hard double or triple.
You'll see all five men on the floor focused on stopping one player. You'll see five guys finding legal position to prohibit any movement into the lane. Turns out that basketball’s more difficult that it looks on TV.
Jordan did not face these types of defenses. The one-on-one defense of isolation play in the 80s and early 90s, even while being more physical, was easier to score against than the defenses orchestrated by basketball coaches today.
I've forgiven the Lakers for their collapse in the Finals. They met a superior team with a superior defense. But this does not diminish Kobe Bryant's legacy or skill one iota.
Kobe Bryant remains the best basketball player in the NBA today. Furthermore, anyone who tells me a player of Kobe Bryant's caliber could not do it against the defenses of the 80s and 90s just hasn't watched enough tape. Kobe would be good. He'd be damn good—LeBron, Wade, and AI too. These guys are in a class of basketball players that could excel during any time period.
It is time for us as a community of fans to stop believing that merely because someone came first that that makes them the best. We're never going to truly be able to compare Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan. The best we can do is look at the facts and realize that both players are remarkable and, no matter how much you want to deny it, that Kobe Bryant has achieved a level of basketball prowess that rivals the great Michael Jordan.
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3 months ago
Phil Jackson coached both of them and Phil admitted that if Jordan would play today, he would probably average 45 ppg. I know he's exaggerating a bit but it's still a way of saying even if Mike plays now, he'd still be better than Kobe
from 3 months ago
I agree that MJ is better. I agree that Phil knows it. But please show me where Phil said that if Jordan were playing today he would average 45 ppg. If he did say that then it's more of an indictment on today's rules and officiating than it is on MJ's superiority.
3 months ago
Yeag, but Phil doesn't know crap. Kobe is just as good as Jordan. He is a little better offensively while Jordan is a little better defensively. The tiebreaker goes to who ends up with more rings. Right now Jordan has the 6-3 edge. Kobe should get at least 2-3 more though with the team he has and then the debate will be extremely difficult to decide who was better.
3 months ago
Great stuff, William. A very interesting debate should follow.
3 months ago
Even IF Jordan is the "beneficiary of an era", he did things back then that no one could do. Nowadays it's hard to see someone do something in a game where you go "Wow, I've never seen that before!", he was the best player of his era and one of the best of all times, and that's credit to him.
3 months ago
I absolutely agree with you, Will. I think that nobody will ever be considered better than MJ, simply because he came first. However, someone will come along who is better. Whether or not that is Kobe, I do not know.
Keep up the good work, Will Smith
(MIB)
3 months ago
The addition of the Raptors and Grizzlies have diluted the talent pool in the NBA, adding roughly 30 players who would otherwise be spending their days in the D-League. Do you seriously think the competition has improved by creating more roster spots? It's no surprise that Bryant posted his 81 points against a Canadian team.
Moreover, we saw how reluctant Bryant was in driving against the "hard" Celtics defense in the Finals. Compared to teams of the late 1980s / early 1990s (especially the Pistons), the Celtics of today would be considered an "average" (rather than "hard") defensive unit. Against the "Bad Boy" Pistons (with Rodman and Laimbeer), Bryant would be taking every shot from beyond the arc, afraid to draw the contact that was a key element of the so-called "Jordan Rules". In his prime, Jordan would have taken the ball into the teeth of today's Celtics defense, drawn a foul, AND knocked down the shot. Did Bryant even manage that once in the entire series? Please, stop these ridiculous comparisons.
If Bryant is facing so many more double and triple teams than Jordan did, then where are all of his assists?
3 months ago
man i cant beleive ppl like you are still trying to say kobe is as good or better... or this era and that... i have watched throught jordan and kobe.... jordan is simply the man... its not even an argument... get some logic already... kobe is my favourite player now.. but thats all.. not even close to the greatest of all time.. michael jordan !
i dont know what you have looked for and watcherd... but i followed all the games of michael ... and now kobe... i think you people are blind and stupid. stop living in the moment.
from 3 months ago
Well that's a mature way to approach a debate. Telling people they are blind and stupid for arguing their points. You've got to remember MJ was always known as the man on his teams. If he had a guy like Shaq on his team, you don't think those two ego's would clash? Shaq demanded the ball more then anyone when he was on the Lakers. He sucks now and still walks around like he's the man.
Jordan had Scottie Pippen on his team. Pippen, who should go down as the greatest team player of all time needed MJ just as bad as MJ needed him. Pippen was a winner and contender wherever he went in the NBA. When MJ retired in his prime Scottie still lead the Bulls to the conference finals two years in a row but didn't have his buddy MJ around to take heat off him. We never saw how MJ did on a team like the 05-07 Lakers.
I know it was Kobe's influence to get Shaq out of town but he ultimately wanted something in return that wouldn't talk back to him, his Scottie Pippen. He didn't get it until this year when Laker management followed the rest of the league and made a got a vaccine for the disease that is Kwame Brown in the name of Pau Gasol. Lamar Odom could be considered a very poor man's Pippen. But the way he disappeared in the Finals, where Pippen turned on the after-burners, takes him completely out of that discussion.
If Kobe Bryant was drafted in 1984 and played in the Era that MJ played in his whole career, he'd probably have 8-10 rings by the time he was done. Assuming the Lakers still acquire Pippen and the rest of their pieces he'd be on the fast track to be the greatest player of all-time. He wouldn't retire when he's 30 years old, or 36 and still getting it done.
That argument goes for any of the big stars in today's NBA. I KNOW LeBron would have torn up the NBA during the golden years of the 80's, and in MJ's era in the 90's.
I'm not faulting either player for either thing because the fact remains that both players grew up with different advantages and disadvantages. I doubt the AAU circuit was near as prominent as it is now. The workout facilities and equipment available was probably much better for Kobe then MJ.
I don't like when people compare two players. Why can't Michael Jordan just be the only Michael Jordan and all these young guns coming in have to be considered the "next MJ" if they are athletic, and idolized him like so many kids did growing up. Kobe shouldn't be trying to be the next MJ, he should just be the only Kobe Bryant.
Magic Johnson is one of the best winners in the history of basketball. He won a state championship in high school, national championship in college, and five championships in the NBA during the "golden era of basketball". He was the NBA MVP 3 times, finals MVP 3 times, a twelve time all-star, and appeared in the NBA Finals 9 times in 12 seasons. During the 80's the Lakers were not in the NBA finals just twice. He probably played the best game anyone has ever played in NBA history his rookie year when he stepped in for Kareem to play center recording 42 points, 15 rebounds, and 7 assists to clinch his first championship.
So if you're going to rate the "best ever" in terms of winning, Magic would be right up there with MJ, if not higher.
I won't rant about Bill Russell all he did was win 11 rings, whatever.
3 months ago
Look write this article when Kobe wins 6 championships WITHOUT A SCORING THREAT DOWN LOW, plays defense, and makes everyone around him better......o also when he launches a company into stardom as Jordan did Nike.
I agree with James it's getting sad that you Kobe slurpers out there try your best everyday; when Kobe himself said he can't be Michael. No one can. No one will. Rather you should revel in the fact that our generation got to see Jordan firsthand.
3 months ago
Also the fact that you put Andrew Jackson within the same breath as Thomas Jefferson is laughable
3 months ago
How many great player's are saying that they went ringless on account of Kobe? Zero? That's what I thought. Kobe is a great scorer, nice shooter and sometimes a great team basketball player. He however is not a force like Jordan was. You can pump out 81 points and scoring titles on sixth place teams but in the end he gets pumped up because people just wish he could be Jordan. He killed his best shot at true greatness when he ran Shaq out of town. I guess for him it's better to be the big scorer on a weak team than to be part of a group that pulls in a title. His game oozes selfishness and that is why Jordan will always be better.
Up until last season it would be easy to call Duncan the NBA's top player. With Kobe we're still talking about a guy who has never been the best player on a title team. Maybe he should do something that Walton and Barry did before fans call him the greatest to ever play.
P.S. To Marcel. If Kobe is "a little better offensively" why does he shoot a much lower percent? Why has he shot under 40 percent in eight of his last 11 finals games? The answer is that Jordan was, in fact, a far better baller than Kobe.
from 3 months ago
I woulnd't say a far better baller, and MJ never had to deal with an ego the size of Shaquille O'Neal on his team. There were reports of him and Scottie feuding but that was pure propaganda. Scottie took a back seat to MJ his whole career and that's a big part of the Bulls success. Kobe didn't want to be the Scottie Pippen on a championship team, he wanted to be the MJ. He hasn't found his Scottie Pippen, yet.
from 3 months ago
"Kobe didn't want to be the Scottie Pippen on a championship team, he wanted to be the MJ. He hasn't found his Scottie Pippen, yet."
But is he good enough to be an MJ. As of now is he even better than a Russell?
I have just not seen enough to convince myself that Kobe is better than Jordan. He tries to man up and attack defense's strengths rather than weaknesses. As of now he's a higher scoring Pippen with fewer rings. Again, try shooting over 41 percent in the finals. Til then, MJ is still the best.
And to say that back in the day Kobe would have won 8-10 rings. Since no one aside from the 60's Celtics has ever done that it's pretty bold to say that Kobe would have done it against Bird and Magic.
from 3 months ago
Marcus,
Jordan also didn't play with the most dominant center of his era; unlike Kobe, who since has 0 rings to his name; if Kobe gets a ring he'll need a healthy Bynum & Gasol & Odom; not just a scottie pippen (who was great because he actually played defense, that all important aspect of sports we often forget about)
I could only imagine the domination of basketball if Jordan played with Hakeem, or Ewing for nearly a decade. Plus Jordan was 2391823127612837 times more clutch than Kobe it was Robert Horry hitting the clutch shots for the Lakers.
3 months ago
Well written article, but I believe you said it best - Jordan developed a higher basketball IQ. Although he was athletic and had great abilities, what set him apart was his ability to learn how to adapt.
Without resorting to comparisons to any current players, I do believe in today's NBA that Jordan would learn how to adapt, and would still make a substantial impact above what others are currently doing.
Yes, the game has changed significantly, but we should not discount what he was able to do simply because it had not yet gone through so many rule changes and was not as complex.
Jordan changed the game. Period.
3 months ago
The Shaq and Kobe feud is now back. All the talk has been about how Kobe can't win without Shaq. O'Neal won without Kobe in 2006, but Kobe has yet to win a championship. However, Shaq didn't REALLY win anything without Kobe. Kobe has never had a big man in the middle since Shaq left. He's never had any help, except this year. Shaq, on the other hand, had the second reincarnation of Kobe - Dwayne Wade. Wade was one of the best players in the league during their championship run at the same position Bryant played with the Lakers. How can anyone say, "Shaq won without Kobe?"
He didn't. Shaq had even better production at the guard position in Miami than he did with Kobe. Over the three seasons that Kobe and Shaq won NBA titles, Kobe averaged 25.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg and 5.1 apg during the regular seasons. In Wade's NBA title season with Shaq, Wade averaged 27.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg and 5.7 apg.
Wade had better production in all three major categories. However, what about during the playoffs, you ask? During the three runs for the Lakers, Kobe averaged 25.7 ppg, 5.8 rpg and 5 apg. Wade - 28.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg and 5.7 apg. Again, Wade better in all three major categories.
Dwayne Wade gave Shaq even a better outside presence in Miami than Kobe did in LA. Never did Shaq win anything by himself. Kobe, however, has not had even close to the same inside production since Shaq left. In addition, the one-year he did (this year), he went to the NBA finals. I'm sick of hearing that Kobe can't win without Shaq, but Shaq can win without Kobe. Shaq DID win in Miami with Kobe - Dwayne Wade.
Aleksandar Yugo
from 3 months ago
Teams win titles. Kobe made his team, so if it fails that falls more on him.
"How can anyone say, "Shaq won without Kobe?"" Well that would be that whole 2005 NBA finals thing. Kobe could have had what Wade had. A once all-world second scorer as the second best player on his title team. Kobe however wanted the shots and glory of winning with players who were worse than shaq. That way he gets more credit (which many fans have foolishly given him).
"Wade had better production in all three major categories. However, what about during the playoffs, you ask? During the three runs for the Lakers, Kobe averaged 25.7 ppg, 5.8 rpg and 5 apg. Wade - 28.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg and 5.7 apg. Again, Wade better in all three major categories."
If Wade is that much better can we jost call him the game's best player? I mean he has been the top guy on a title team, something Kobe has yet to do.
3 months ago
you know what makes great players great? that they could make plays in the clutch no matter what circumstances, conditions, defenses or strategies. they just rise to the occasion and make things happen, it's a magical thing to watch. it's like watching tiger woods and phil mickelson. Kobe is the phil Mickelson of basketball great potential but there is no comparison. all you Kobe fans are trying to feel better about your selves because of Kobe's big disappointing finals performance, feel better your team will get another shot at the finals but kobe's is phill mickelson lots of talent but no where near tiger(Michael)
3 months ago
Though Kobe faces more double teams you have toalso see Jordan was a better passer. Getting double teamed in the Finals he hit John Paxson and Steve Kerr in to diferent series for game winning 3's. He still is the only man to record a Triple Double in an All-Star game. His all around play is the reason double teaming him would have been difficult. Also there was a guy named Scottie Pippen that would be open if you doubled Jordan. To clear the record Im a Knicks fan who saw year after year Ewing and Co being defeated by the Bulls our hard fought defense damn near mauling and he would score 55points.
3 months ago
Can people please stop? Kobe blows it again -- as did Pau and Odom and Co. -- for a second time in the Finals and we have people actually saying "It's time to accept that Kobe has surpassed Jordan"?
I don't know about comparing players from different eras, playing under different rules, even on different teams, given the demands players have on them. But the one thing I do know -- and Chuck Daly said it best during the first Dream Team practice looking at what was and may still be the greatest assembly of basketball talent ever -- Michael Jordan was twice as good as the next best player there. Now, clearly the man wasn't basing his claim on quantifiable metrics. But the fact remains, Jordan far outshone his nearest rival.
Kobe hasn't done that. Period. Jordan conquered all he could. Now you can debate whether Larry and Magic were getting older -- though Kobe fans love to point to that Wiz game Kobe dropped buckets in one half (though Jordan wasn't guarding him). Point is, Stockton and Malone weren't -- neither were Ewing and the Knicks, Reggie and the Pacers, Clyde and the Blazers, Payton, Kemp and the Sonics, Barkley and the Suns, Mutumbo and the Hawks ...
A lot of guys retired ringless because -- as Barkley, Ewing, Reggie, Stockton will say -- of Jordan (Malone may blame Kobe).
Is it fair that Kobe hasn't? No but that's life. It isn't fair. he was born when he was. Was it fair that Jordan spent the first half of his career getting pounded? That's life.
I think it's more reasonable to believe that Jordan would excel in this era than it is to believe Kobe would thrive in the 80s. The fact is, the man doesn't handle physical play well and in the 80s Lambier and Mahorn would have sat him down. Kobe could barely deal with Raja and Charlie Ward.
For the love of Pete, please stop the madness. The arguments aren't good. The points are specious and, while they have a certain elliptical charm about them, ultimately ring hollow.
Kobe isn't a better scorer, hasn't faced more double teams, and most importantly has yet to separate himself from his peer group. With MJ, it's a peer group of one. That much is undebatable.
2 months ago
JORDAN IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIMES AND THERE IS NO ONE THAT CAN TOUCH HIM FOR A LONG TIME ( THE #23 JORDAN NOT THE #45 JORDAN ).
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