Blame the King. When LeBron James entered the NBA in 2003 donning the same number as His Airness, people predictably started making the overused comparison. LeBron James was supposed to be the next Michael Jordan, perhaps blessed with even more athleticism. However, as Kobe Bryant began to look more and more like Michael under to the tutelage of Hall of Fame coach Phil Jackson, LeBron's knack for getting triple doubles reminded people more of another MJ (Magic Johnson). People eventually stopped trying to force King James to wear Air Jordan's shoes.
Fast forward to last year, when LeBron lead the Cavaliers to the NBA finals. LeBron single handily propelled Cleveland to victory in a historical game five performance in the Palace of Auburn Hills. It was in that moment we realized we were witnesses to his greatness. We realized that LeBron is indeed a once in a lifetime athlete destined for stardom. However, after a disappointing 45 win season in the Eastern Conference and a remarkable, while simultaneously predictable, second round defeat to the Celtics, it appears that basketball fans have indeed witnessed something similar to this. The LeBron James story seems eerily similar to a former Eastern Conference superstar who headed a draft class with immeasurable talent.
- B/R Ticket Guide
Allen Iverson's experience in Philadelphia is almost identical to LeBron James' experience in Cleveland. Offensively limited by the minds of a Coach Brown, LeBron and A.I. lead scrappy, defensive teams to the playoffs year after year. In their first five seasons, LeBron and Iverson have won the same number of playoff series (five), as well as missed the playoffs the same number of times. Their greatest accomplishment was leading two less than stellar team to the NBA finals, only to follow that season up with a disappointing losses in the playoffs. Although LeBron probably won't make a classic rant about practice in his postseason press conference, you undoubtedly will see the same frustration that regression seems to evoke.
Somewhere between Iverson's epic finals run and his move to Denver, the consensus about Allen Iverson changed. When Philadelphia finally traded their unique superstar, it was viewed as a necessary evil. The people who once blamed Iverson's supporting cast for Philadelphia's shortcomings suddenly felt that Iverson was unfit to build a team around. They claimed that his style of play was too unconventional. Suddenly, his 50 point showcases were viewed as evidence that he was too much of a one man show.
Like Iverson, James is unlike anything the NBA has ever seen. He is a small forward in an undersized power forward frame that handles the ball like a point guard. There's no denying his immeasurable talents. However, Danny Ferry has been trying feverishly to put the right supporting cast around him over the past three years, but so far it hasn't worked. That may be where the problem lies. Great teams are always built with great chemistry. Similar to Iverson's Sixers, constant changes are continuously being made to adapt to LeBron's unique style.
I think LeBron will eventually win a championship. That's not really going out on a limb. It raises an interesting question: how exactly do you build a team around LeBron? Do you need a second scorer (Larry Hughes, Big Z), or spot up shooters (Damon Jones and Daniel Gibson)? Do you need another post presence, or does that just force LeBron to rely on his less than stellar jump shot? Hopefully, Cleveland will be able to figure out the answers.
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6 months ago
I think the biggest difference in the two is the level of improvement LeBron has made year-to-year, especially in his defense, where Iverson is still the same all-gamble, all-the-time defender he was as a rookie.
The actually have similar flaws---questionable jump shooters, ball dominant players---but James is an infinitely better finisher and much more unselfish (and smarter) ball distributor.
It would be nice to see how James would fare on a team with other offensive options, but we've now seen that Iverson-led ballclubs are average at best, whether they play small, scrappy, defense-first basketball like his run with the Sixers, or whether they play all-offense, all-the-time like with the Nuggets.
Iverson just dominates the ball too much and isn't the finisher/creator/smart ball distributor to lead a complex offense, to say nothing of his defensive deficiencies.
6 months ago
The big difference between Iverson and James is that James would never skip practices or show up at a bar with a shotgun.
The stats he put up this year are way better than any Iverson ever did, in fact his line this year is one of the best in the last 20 years. James and the Cavs will keep getting better, eventually. He won't slowly fade out of relevance like AI
6 months ago
Cool article. I can even see a AI:Nuggets::LeBron:New York/New Jersey- style trade demand coming, though a lot earlier in LBJ's career.
6 months ago
"The big difference between Iverson and James is that James would never skip practices or show up at a bar with a shotgun".
When did AI ever show up at a bar with a shotgun?
from 6 months ago
"When did AI ever show up at a bar with a shotgun?"
Musta been Happy Hour.
6 months ago
Judging from these comments, I guess the bottom line is that AI basically sucks...
from 6 months ago
No, but he's basically overrated and not worth the trouble of having on a team concerned with winning championships.
6 months ago
These days everyone is "overrated". People on boards call LBJ overrated...just like others call Iverson "overrated".
For me, there are a ton of players in the NBA that seemingly play a vastly different game than AI, or at least a vastly different game than the one that is always attributed to Iverson.
AI is, apparently, a selfish ballhog who dominates the ball, stagnates offenses, and plays little to no defense. And he has no rings. You would think he never passes (what's his career average for assists?), shoots horrendously (shot 45% this year), and doesn't make his teammates better (Mutombo, Mckie, Snow, Giegher were obviously great players without Iverson's influence).
Yet, "anti-Iversons", guys like Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, KG, etc...are in the same boat as him, in that they too have never been a part of a championship team. It's kinda funny to me that when someone like Steve Nash dribbles around, and dribbles around, and then dribbles around some more, it's described as "doing a great job of keeping his dribble alive", but when Iverson does it, he's impersonating Curly Neal. And for the record, I'm a big fan of Nash.
Build any team with "balance" in mind and you give yourself a chance to win. One great offensive player and a bunch of scrappers won't get it done (AI in Philly) nor will a team with two great offensive players, only one three point shooter, no post players, and very few defensive minded individuals (AI in Denver).
I must concede however, all the points you made about Lebron. He is obviously a better percentage finisher than Iverson (because of his size) and a better passer as well. Lebron's ceiling is mind-boggling...if he ever develops a post game...it's over.
from 6 months ago
While LeBron still has a fatal flaw with his outside shooting, only haters (and Lakers fans) will call LeBron overrated.
Iverson gets a boatload of assists (like James) because he has the ball in his hands so often. With the ball in his hands so much, he has to get assists by default. He gets a lot of layups because of how the Nuggets offense goes full-throttle in transition. In the halfcourt against good defenses, Iverson isn't a great finisher nor is he a good jump shooter.
Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, throw Deron Williams and Chris Paul in there, all have better court vision than Iverson, all can run complicated offenses, and none is simply a drive-and-dish assist man which Iverson is. Plus, Iverson overpenetrates a ton and often jumps in the air (one of the absolute worst decisions a point guard can make) to pass.
OF course he'd be best served as a 2-guard, but he dominates the ball so much that it's hard to run an offense with a traditional point guard.
Plus, three of the four point guards above will do other things on offense without the ball (has Iverson ever set a screen or posted up?), and all four are infinitely better defenders.
Nash will often dribble around to set up the offense and direct a screener. Iverson often dribbles in place to set up an isolation. Plus, when Nash gets his screen, it's a trigger for Phoenix' players to go to their assigned spot-up spaces and for the cutters to run the baseline. When Iverson goes to drive everybody just stands around because they know it's going to be a simple drive-and-dish.
You are absoultely right with your balance point and it's one reason why the Sixers with AI, the Nuggets, and the Cavs are far from being elite. At least Iverson's Sixers and LeBron's Cavs were great defensive teams. The Nuggets are an impulsive joke on defense.
I'm just not a fan of Iverson's game. I'm willing to dismiss his Sixers' flaws as being on a team with no other scorers, but the Nuggets havent's exactly had a great postseason offense in Denver with 'Melo and even Steve Blake, Linas Kleiza, J.R. Smith, and Nene.
from 6 months ago
Mike,
I agree that there is a double standard when it comes to players like Iverson. When Iverson scores 50 points..for some its further proof that he is just a one man show and is a show off that cares only about his stats. But when Lebron scores 50 points, he gets praised for it and treated like a hero. It makes no sense. I get what point you are trying to make, but for those who don't care for Iverson your point will fall on death ears. They will continue to go on and on about Iversons negatives and never highlight his positives. Then come up with a bunch of BS like "he walks in bars with a shot gun". I don't even listen to people like that anymore when it comes to talking about some of these players, because its just ignorance...and whoever "Erick" is must be a Nuggets fan who doesn't see how many issues and flaws that team has to address, even before Iverson even went to Denver they had issues.
6 months ago
Lebron's defense has been better this season, but compared to what? Could AI make a jumpshot? yes. James needs to work on his mid to long rang game, defense, and freethrows.
A guy with Lebrons athletisism shouldnt be "nowhere to be found" when it comes to at least the NBA 2nd Team Defense.
If defense was a drag race and last season he was still on the line? Today he is in 1st gear.
Lebron also needs to shake this "ME" attitude. "The Chosen One" hasnt won anything. The Cavs have won as many Finals games as the Bobcats. At least AI beat the Lakers in the Finals in LA. At least AI can make a freethrow, or on the defensive end can at least lead the league in steals.
Is Lebron as good as AI was at making his team better? I dont think so. AI was an MVP.
Lebron has been more of an MVme.
"A Lebron James team is never desperate" and a "Lebron James" team will never win a title. But a TEAM that Lebron James plays on might.
They are both egomaniacs. Lebron has a more innocent visage about it.
What people dont seem too understand is that "an assist" is only ONE facet of making your teammates better. And there are several facets.
I tell you what. If Lebron doesnt improve his jumper, his defense, and his freethrows in the next couple of years, we will have to wait until Lebron meshes with another team in another city before we talk about him winning a championship. And that could take a couple of years from when he gets there.
You cant drive to the basket forever. Ask Michael Jordan.
Nice article.
from 6 months ago
AI isn't that much better as a jump shooter than LeBron is. He just thinks he is by jacking so many jumpers up.
There are about 13 players on an NBA team and 30 teams. That equates to roughly 390 players in the NBA. LeBron isn't a great team defender because he can't crack the top 10 of those players?
Besides, those Awards teams are a popularity contest anyway and aren't indicative of a player's performance. For example, how Shane Battier isn't this year's Defensive Player of the Year is beside me. And just because Battier and Bowen are better defenders than James is right now doesn't mean LeBron is a poor one.
You actually correlated Iverson racking up a bunch of steals with playing defense? Yeah, gambling recklessly is a great way to encourage defensive discipline. I'd rather take LeBron out-physicaling an offensive player and forcing said player into a tough jumper than brazenly throwing caution to the side and trying to pick off as many passes as possible.
from 6 months ago
Lebron's not a good defender because he cant crack the top five? No.
Lebron's not a good defender, because he is NOT a good defender!
He's a non issue on defense. At least Iverson could get some steals. And thats not saying Iverson was a great defender, nor am I saying that steals in anyway constitutes great defense, but at least he can get you a steal.
Oh and YES Iverson does have a better jumpshot, by far. Are you kidding me? "Lebron's jumpshot" should be an oxymoron.
As for the awards being a popularity contest. Thats what someone would say who's favorite player isnt on it. Thats the biggest cop out I've heard. As if the NBA COACHES dont know who the great defenders are.
Shane Battier isnt this year's DPOY because he wasnt. KG was the anchor to the best defense in the league a season after it was mediocre at best.
If the All Team Defense was a popularity contest why isnt Lebron James on it? Why hasnt Iverson ever been on it? D Wade one 2nd Team? Shaq's only been on the 2nd Team 3 times in his ENTIRE career, same with Larry Bird. Dr J one time. Even Wilt Chamberlain was only on TWO.
Nowitzki NONE. Steve Nash NONE. Amare NONE. Tony Parker NONE. Melo NONE, T Mac NONE, Vince Carter NONE, Paul Pierce NONE, Charles Barkley NONE, Elgin Baylor NONE, Magic Johnson was NEVER on a Defensive Team.
So much for that weak theory!
6 months ago
I agree that Lebron has practically no ceiling, but maybe the ideal partner would be a serious PG who could generate ball movement AWAY from LBJ. Drive and dish assists are no substitute for all-around team ball sharing. LBJ would get a million touches anyway, and in less predictable ways.
This is something AI and LBJ have in common - dominating the ball and getting assists without creating that much team ball movement. I think the Nuggets will try one last time with AI, this time moving him back to the point with ORDERS to AVERAGE 10 + assists/game. His touches are down from 24 attempts in Philly to 19 in Denver, so he has actually shown some flexibility, but he needs to be paired with a big guard to avoid the wide open spaces that were the death of the Nuggs' D. That means he plays the point and lets Melo be the prime finisher (AI 22p, 4r, 11a - Melo 26p, 10r, 4a). Is AI that flexible?
6 months ago
Interesting insights. Lebron might benefit from a good PG, but then again, how many great PGs did MJ play with? Of course, you had the option of running the offense through Pippen, who was a guy who could handle the ball, pass, shoot, score, etc...So, with Lebron, it's not necessarily a PG that he needs, but certainly a player that can facilitate his own offense aswell as create shots for his teammates.
As for AI, I do think he is flexible, in that he is 32 years old and he wants to win. There is this perception that all he cares about are his stats...I beg to differ. During this past season, I acknowledged that Denver's offense should run through Melo as the primary scorer with AI playing the role of chief facilitator. I think averages of around 21-22 ppg and 9-10 assists
per game would be ideal for AI and the Nuggets. But, that team has yet to address some core issues, and this is why I feel they haven't underachieved with AI/Melo. It's like they made a panic trade to acquire Iverson without really attempting to build around his talents. They have no PG, no scoring post, one consistent three point shooter...I don't think they are constructed properly. To simply add AI, pair him with Melo, and think that it gives you some enormous advantage in the Western Conference is beyond ignorant. When commentators overreacted to the trade by saying that it automatically made Denver an elite Western Conf. team, I was baffled.
from 6 months ago
In a perfect world, Carmelo can be that post option as Melo's shown that he can be an astute passer and scorer in the post even when double teamed. But Carmelo's a player who chokes under pressure, can't defend, and disappears in the spotlight.
You know who'd be perfect for the Nuggets right now? Andre Miller with a big guard who could defend. But the Nuggets overreacted and traded for Iverson. With all the firepower and diverse offenses in the Western Conference (the Lakers' triangle, Utah's flexing, cutting, power ball, San Antonio's inside-out game, New Orleans' misdirection and screening), will the Nuggets even field a team with two flat-out defensive liabilities in Iverson and Melo ever field the defense first roster capable of winning playoff series'?
6 months ago
Why do people hate on Allen Iverson so much. He is NOT a bad player. I think he is THE BEST PLAYER POUND FOR POUND!!!!!! =] I don't care what you guys have to say. If Melo would play better and stop smiling when he misses shots then the Nuugets would be a much better team. Iverson plays all of his games like it is his last. Don't blame everything on Iverson. I'm sorry you guys can't be like Alllen Iverson !!! I love Allen Iverson !!! =]
6 months ago
Yes, Denver is in a bit of trouble...especially with Portland on the up and up...though we still have to see which direction teams like Phoenix and Dallas go in.
Iverson will always be a defensive liability (on the ball)...as for Melo, I don't really see why he should be a poor defender or why he should remain one (other than a lack of commitment to becoming a good defensive player). The only other "really talented player" on that team is Smith. I'm not sure yet about Kleiza, Martin has no offensive game to speak of (and the knees!), Camby is about to celebrate his 500th birthday, Anthony Carter...well...thanks for the effort, Najera, I love his hustle, but...
When you compare the Nuggs to a team like the Lakers...well, you can't.
6 months ago
And yes, obviously in reality, Nash is a much better traditional set up man than AI. But, again, racking up assists is virtue of having the ball in your hands alot...it's not like hockey where the play to set up the play that sets up the score also gets tagged as an assist. CP3, Dwill, Nash all have the ball in their hands quite a bit.
AI is a polarizing figure. There seems to be no middle ground when people look at his game...either you love his game (me) or you don't (you). Which is fine. As I've gotten older, I've realized he has flaws as a ball player, no doubt. But there are just too many memories of the grit he plays with (especially in Philly), dropping 48 on the Lakers in game one of the 2001 finals, scoring 26 in the fourth against the Bucks in the 2001 east finals (game six)...etc...
For one, has he ever played with a dominant post player? And two (and this is purely theoretical), does anyone see AI as possibly adding a little Rip Hamilton to his game? Especially as he gets older, because MJ found a way to expand his game as he got older, and AI needs to as well. Iverson (IMO) is not a very bad midrange player at all...he struggles with his three. He is always working to create his own shot off the dribble, but what about running him off a series of screens, forcing defenders to trail him, and then freeing him up?
Just a thought...
6 months ago
He's not a bad midrange player at all and he's got a great midrange jumper...I just see him as a horrible liability on defense as a 2-guard and too undisicplined to be a point guard.
Since Iverson has the talent, the contract, and the hype to be a franchise player, then he should play like a franchise player but his teams have always underperformed (except in his year when he got to the Finals).
Besides Antoine Walker and Jason Williams on a very underwhelming Heat team, when was the last time a team won an NBA Championship with an integral player being an outright defensive liability? Maybe Tony Parker, but TP doesn't put his team in terrible defensive predicaments like AI does when he gambles and misses. That's the major reason why I'm so critical of Iverson's game.
6 months ago
Alright Erick we get it...you hate Iverson. LOL!!! My god hate for Iverson always seems to be at an all-time high. SMH
Anyhow, I like Iverson and Lebron and think given the proper circumstances BOTH could lead a team to a championship. Both are amazing "once in a lifetime" players. If it was never meant for them to be on competetive teams that can contend they would have never even sniffed the NBA finals. You know what is actually weird..I sort of feel like an Iverson/Lebron combo would be better suited for eachother then a Iverson/Melo combo. Lebron doesn't need the ball in his hands as much as people say he does...he actually does a good job of moving without the ball, while Carmelo doesn't move at all. Iverson is better around players that can move without the ball, Iverson used to move without the ball and they would set pick and rolls all the time in when he was on the 76ers... they don't do that on the Nuggets. Lebron is less selfish and a better passer then Carmelo and seems to just care about working hard and winning. I don't know, I just think him and Lebron would make a better combo then him and Carmelo.
Thats not to say that Carmelo and Iverson couldn't work better together, I think under a different system and a different Coach they would fit better together then what they have. But the Nuggets are keeping Coach Karl and he claims that he will change things next season..but I doubt it.
6 months ago
Erick said:
"You know who'd be perfect for the Nuggets right now? Andre Miller with a big guard who could defend".
They had that, they had Andre Miller and JR Smith (he isn't a definsive stud though)..and were still one and done in the playoffs. So no...it wouldn't be perfect. Nuggets fans had the same complaints about Miller when he was there that they have about Iverson, that he dribbles too much and his shot selection. Also, Miller called Carmelo out once for being lazy and a year later Miller was traded. Maybe Miller was onto something. Anyhow, The Nuggets do need either to move Iverson to the point or aquire a taller PG who can defend in the backcourt with him. I do agree with "Mike" that it seems as if the Nuggets made a trade for Iverson with no plan in place. You can't trade for a player like that and have no plan and just expect to stick him in the backcourt with anyone and think he is just supposed to come in and make magic, it doesn't work like that.
Also, people fail to understand that Coach Karl is the one that told Iverson to continue to play like he did in Philly (which is the wrong style for this team) he has said it 100 times in the media, now Iverson is getting punished by people for actually listening to his Coach for one of the first times in his career. The guy can't seem to win with people. If he shoots the ball and scores points then he is considered a "ball hog", if he defers and doesn't score the points then he is told he has "lost a step". Its ridiculous at this point. I just hope that team can figure things out, otherwise he needs to leave before they try to ruin the rest of his career. I wish him and Lebron the best, they are both great players IMO.
6 months ago
Good points Jason...Erick also made some valid statements.
As an AI fan, I cringed when they sent him to Denver. Again, it seems they had no plan...just something along the lines of "Melo and AI can outscore any other combo in the league, so there!!! We will win!!!".
Not even close...it's just not that big a deal to say you have the highest scoring combo in the league when the rest of the guys are not in a position to be effective. Watching the Nuggs, they seem to have no offense, and I'm a firm believer in the value of a Post player that can get it done down low.
Both LBJ and AI are great talents...I believe management has the job of effectively building around great players. For Lebron, there is still time...alot more than there is for Allen Iverson.
5 months ago
First of all, this A.I overated thing is silly. Im not even a huge A.I fan but the guy is one of the most relentless and hardest working ever. He led The sixers to the Finals...You know who was on the team? Nobody....they were so terrible the offense was built around him jacking up shots...for a decade. Kobe, id agree is on, or near Jordans level, in some ways but Lebron easily has a chance to be better than both. See, when people compare Lebron to Jordan or Kobe to Jordan its not because of the play, its because of the numbers. If your a perimeter player putting up 30,5 and 5 the Jordan comments will come. Only few have accomplished that on a consistent basis. The scary thing is I dont see how Lebron can average anything less than 5 rebounds and 5 assists throughout his entire career. And lets say 25 points per...I dont care if hes 35. As he jumper gets better, assuming of course it will, the more unguardable he'll become. And he's still only what, 23?
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