I want him as a starter and so does everyone else, including him, and that is what we are working toward and we need him there now. There is no question about it, you don’t have a guy with a 100-mile-per-hour fastball and keep him as a setup guy. You just don’t do that. You have to be an idiot to do that.
-- Hank Steinbrenner on Joba Chamberlain in Monday's NY Times
More deep thoughts from the great Hank Steinbrenner. It's funny because I always thought that a guy who can throw gas like Joba does indeed belong in the bullpen as a setup man or even a closer-- once Mariano Rivera is done. The Red Sox faced a similar dilemma with Jonathan Papelbon, although they wanted to make a starter due to health concerns, they eventually decided to keep him in the closer role after he approached them. I think the Yankees of post-2004 can learn a few things from that team up north.
Hank Steinbrenner is an owner, not a GM or a Manager. We see teams that are run by their owners like the Oakland Raiders, and they are a complete mess. Owners do not need to be heavily operated in the day to day operations. Sure, it is their team, but they often feel as they have more knowledge about these matters than they really do. Hank has people in place to do the evaluating, and if he doesn't trust them, he should re-evaluate his staff (although this would be shortsighted given how Brian Cashman has revamped the organization at the minor league level).
Hank is also acting like an everyday fan. He sees the same thing we see from the rotation and begins to panic. These Yankees have to win today, tomorrow is too far away! No fan in NY has patience anymore and it seems that the late 90s have spoiled them. Hank should be above that as the owner.
Wait, and is he officially the owner? I'm not even sure that was made clear yet. Where is George? Whats wrong with the other son, Hal? Oh the drama!
With Kennedy and Hughes both being so young, the Yankees need to be patient. These are two guys that any team would love to have. However, they need some time to develop. It is not the end of the world if the Yankees miss the 2008 playoffs. What needs to be done is establishing these 2 as a solid 1-2 punch for the future.
Heck, the Red Sox missed the playoffs in 2005 after breaking the curse in 2004, and came back to win in 2007. You can take 1 step back in order to take 2 steps forward.
With all that being said, I believe that it is harder to find a solid closer then a solid starter. Four World Series Championship in the late 1990s could have easily been 2 or less had Mariano not been what he is now known as, the best closer of all time.There are 30 closer jobs in the majors. I think it is safe to say that less then half are reliable closers, let alone guys who are lights out like Mariano or Papelbon.
On the other hand there are 150 (30 teams x 5 starters) starting positions in the majors. Most teams have at least 2 to 3 decent starters who are capable of winning 10-15 games and maintaining under a 4.00 ERA, if not better then that.
8 comments Last one added about 1 year ago — Leave a Comment
Rob Maccariello about 1 year ago
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/18915-Lord-Steinbrenner-II-What-It-Means-for-Joba-Girardi-and-the-Yankees
That's the article I just wrote commenting on the issues.
You make a lot of claims, factually, that I might dispute. Setup men are more valuable than starters? Why do starters win Cy Young awards almost every year ever? Why are they responsible for 15-20 wins (the good ones)?
And it is clear that Hank is going to take over after his father relinquishes the reins. He is Executive Vice President, in addition to merely being an owner with "deep pockets" as you put it.
If you're going to write an article about the same thing others are, make it a fact-analysis piece, or make it entirely commentary/editorial. You straddle both lines here and it detracts from your article.
Oh, and you could have at least used a different picture from the other Steinbrenner article (mine).
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Paul Salman about 1 year ago
Do not make false accusations based on your assumptions please.
I actually had no idea about your article. I wrote this on my blog earlier today. I just re posted it on my blog with some of your edits. I had this on my mind since i heard the news. See my blog for a different picture too.
http://pasiksright.blogspot.com/
As for your comment: Setup men are more valuable than starters? Why do starters win Cy Young awards almost every year ever? Why are they responsible for 15-20 wins (the good ones)?
Many pitchers wont have 15 20 wins with out their set up men and closers holding their leads. That is my point. Please don't knock my article and assume I copied you. I had no idea about what you wrote. Calm down.
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Rob Maccariello about 1 year ago
Never said you copied anything of mine except for the picture. I just said I wrote an article providing my full take on the issues and provided a link, in case my response was not thorough enough. So, no worries about that.
Your point about starters needing a bullpen to hold their leads makes sense, of course. However, I don't think it then totally proves your point. Consider this:
A great pitcher throws a complete game, 90 pitches or so, and wins... pitching a 2-hit, 1 run game like Wang did against the Red Sox last week. Did the bullpen contribute to the win there?
A pitcher goes 7 innings, gives up some hits, 3 or 4 runs, and still gets a win. The bullpen doesn't allow a run, maybe a walk or a hit or two... and gets a save. What if the bullpen was responsible for an equal share of the game? Another 3 or 4 innings, and would they have kept the team off the scoreboard?
If a starter throws like crap, last an inning, gives up 8 hits and 5 runs.... then essentiall you have to play catch-up. It's imperative that the bullpen doesn't blow the lead, but at that point, you're already screwed by the starter's performance.
The bullpen then usually can only do more harm than do good relative to a team with good starting pitching in the first place.
It's the reason why washed up pitchers can always bounce around team to team in the 'pen... why starters choose to go there at the end of their careers in some instances.... and is the same reason why you'd give the ball to Santana, Sabbathia, or Peavy in Game 7 and say "Go as long as and hard as you can, "and not Wagner, Borowski, or Hoffman.
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Rob Maccariello about 1 year ago
*"imperative that the bullped doesn't make the deficet any larger..."
-- I meant to say....
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Paul Salman about 1 year ago
I just made some more edits and added a paragraph about Joba being sent down to triple aaa to prep.
Answer this, with out Mariano Rivera how many WS would the yanks win? I'd less then 2.
For all your examples i can find examples of situations where a closer blew a game which really mattered ie. brad lidge vs. puljos just to name one that comes to mind. The key is to get a reliable closer who wont cause any damage, like mo and maybe liek joba. Guys like borowski are the example of why you need an amazing clsoer because the indians have a great staff but borowski blows so many saves meaning the great starters are losing quality starts and wins.
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Rob Maccariello about 1 year ago
I wouldn't venture a guess as to where the Yankees would be without 'Mo.
You finding counter examples doesn't make you or I wrong or right... it's a debatable position I suppose... I just have a different opinion than you.
... and Borowski led the AL with 45 saves last season.
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Paul Salman about 1 year ago
I had him in fantasy. I know that he had 45 saves but also had the highest ERA and was up at the top in blow saves. He is also done now while mo is in year 11-12.
I know we are not wrong or right but your first post was a bit attack mode so i went on the defense.
Our articles are not the same. In other news check my blog and spread the word.
http://pasiksright.blogspot.com/
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George Fitzpatrick about 1 year ago
Solid article, Paul. Your implicit comparison of Hank Steinbrenner and Al Davis makes far too much sense, and should be tough for any Yankee fan to stomach.
I think that Joba could become a frontline starter, but is pretty obviously a dominant reliever now. I wouldn't be surprised if cooler heads prevail and the Yanks do the same thing that the Sox did with Papelbon and take dominance where they know they have it.
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