It’s all but official now. Kobe has at last secured the elusive MVP that has rightly been his many times before.
The Lakers will finish with their conference’s best record, and the voters will have no excuse for not giving it to KB24.
But at this point, it will not be like a rush of adrenaline for his fans as much as like popping a joint back in place and getting some morphine to kill the pain.
So where does his legacy stand now? He is a sure bet Hall of Famer, and even his haters would agree he's top 20 all-time.
If he does indeed win the '07-'08 MVP, he will join some very elite company. How elite?
Players to collect at least one scoring title, MVP, and Championship: Jordan, Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, Dr. J (ABA scoring title), David Robinson, Bob McAdoo, and Kobe.
Players to collect all three aforementioned awards and be selected to an All-Defensive First Team: Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Robinson, and Kobe.
Not too shabby. I could play this game all day.
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"Assuming" (you can bet your left nut on it) Kobe gets selected to both the All-NBA First Team and All-Defensive First Team for the third straight year...
Players to be selected to at least six All-NBA and All-Defensive First Teams: Tim Duncan, Jordan, and Kobe.
Players to have an MVP, a Scoring Title, a Championship, and at least six All-Defensive First Teams: Jordan and Kobe.
Now these awards are nice, but what kind of "How awesome is Kobe" game would this be without stats?
Now as many of you know, Kobe's career averages are hindered by his jumping straight from high school.
It's an especially tough transition for guards, as the game is more complicated for them than for big men. The physical differences between young guards and 25-20 year old guards is greater than the physical differences between young big men and 25-30 year old big men.
(LeBron's a freak of nature, and somewhere between guard and big man anyway.)
So let's knock off his first four years for "college" and see what comes out, shall we?
Kobe's Career Stats: A PPG of 28.98, or 29 with standard rounding. Third best all-time behind Jordan and Wilt at 30.1, and far ahead of fourth place Allen Iverson at 27.7 and falling.
Think that's cool? Watch this.
In Jordan's highest scoring season, 1987-88, the median PPG of all NBA teams was 108.0 on the dot.
In Chamberlain's highest scoring year, 1961-62, it was 118.9.
In Kobe's highest scoring year, 2005-06, it was only 97.4!
The pace of the game has slowed so far in recent years, Kobe's PPG is even more amazing relative to the past. To adjust his scoring to the pace of the games when Jordan played, his career average would be 32.6. In Chamberlain's time it would've been 35.4!
So if Kobe had gone to college for four years, he would have the highest relative career scoring average ever.
I'm tired of research, but I hoped you had fun reading this. It's not Harvard grade analysis, but it's pretty darn cool.
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4 months ago
That's crazy information right there excellent research
from 4 months ago
Thanks, it was fun to write.
4 months ago
i agree, great research
4 months ago
Great research? Kobe's career pppg according to NBA.com, is 25 points per game. How did you come up with that 28.8, sir?
Also Kobe's career fg % is .453. That's lousy compared to Jordan's 50%. So if Kobe is averaging anywhere near as many points its because he's jacking up more shots.
Oh, and a few current NBA players and former stars would have an NBA championship too if they played alongside Shaq.
from 4 months ago
28.98 sir, and I got that hypothesising (sp?) that Kobe went to college for 4 years instead of jumping from high school. So I calculated what his career ppg would be without his first four years in the league, which means starting with the 2000-01 season.
Also, I didn't say anything about Kobe's fg%, but...
1. Kobe shoots way more threes, which is just as effeffctive but lowers pure fg%
2. The NBA average fg% was higher in Jordans day than Kobe's
3. Jordans true fg% (points/(fga's+ (.44 * fta's)) is 1.13, Kobe's is 1.11. Whoopdedoo. Thats 1/50th of a point more per shot. For perspective, if you shoot 20 shots a game, thats 2 more points every 5 games.
Oh, and nobody in history has done it alone. Jordan had Pippen and later Rodman, Russel had Cousy and Havliceck, Magic had Kareem and Worthy, Bird had Parish and Mchale, Duncan had Robinson and Parker and Ginobili. Nobody does it alone so stop hating cause thats all your doing.
4 months ago
That is pretty cool man but you know there is no chance a player like Kobe would've gone to college for more then two years. Also, had he gone for all four years I don't see him coming in and scoring 28.5 points per game as a rookie. As good as he is, it still takes time to adjust to the NBA game. I liked your idea here but a few of the scenarios are a little far-fetched.
from 4 months ago
Yeah I know. This was just for fun, not serious analysis. More cotton candy than prime rib, feel me?
4 months ago
great article rob. i've given this exact same analysis elsewhere before, but i did it by ignoring only the first 3 years, since jordan took 3 years in college. 4 years might be a stretch, but 3 is right on. plus, this analysis applies to other stats as well: in this case, kobe's assists would be something like 5.3 and his rebounds would be 5.9 and his steals would be 1.7. not too different from jordan's other categories as well.
and to the person who said kobe shoots more than jordan, go and check the stats. i calculated it before (too lazy to do it again): jordan and kobe shoot around the same shots per game (around 23). so no, you're wrong.
from 4 months ago
Okay. He is taking as amny shots. But Jordan took more quality shots based upon his fg percentage. Since Kobe takes as many attempts but shoots a much worse percentage his shooting is less efficient . Therefore he basically has to jack up shots to come close to keeping pace with Jordan's output. Very impressive.
from 4 months ago
Kenner did you even read my response to your comment? I'm only gonna tell you this 1 more time:
Kobe has taken 16,450 fga, of which 3,192 are 3fga.
MJ took 24,537 fga, of which only 1,778 were 3fga.
So kobe's fg% is going to be lower yes, but you have to use a more sophisticated stat like true fg% to get a reading, and Kobe and MIchael come out extremely close.
4 months ago
Are you in the 7th grade, rob? Are you really using words like "hating"?
Look...there is nothing more absurd than your speculation of what Kobe would have averaged if he stayed four years in college. The fact is he didn't. Should I speculate what Iverson would have averaged his first years in the NBA if he had spent all four years in college too? What Stoudemire would have averaged? How can you begin to predict such stuff? So lets stick to the real world. iI the real world Kobe's points per game is 25. Deal with it.
Next of all if Kobe had stayed in college for four years he would have been drafted #1 out of school and he would have not fooled a small market team like Charlotte into trading him to a team like Los Angeles. So if you want to speculate about his going to school then please speculate about the ENTIRE scenario. He would have gone to some terrible team and would have likely never been paired with Shaq in his prime. As a result the chances are he would never have won those 3 championships and would be currently without a ring. And if had not won that championship ring then he would not be rated so high on your list. Understand? That's why speculating on what he would have done without going over all the possible outcomes is foolish.
Also the reason why I brought up Shaq in my previous post was to point out (like with David Robinson) Kobe was never THE GUY on his championship teams. He wasn't Jordan, he wasn't Bird, he wasn't Olajuwan. He was the sidekick. A very good one, but a sidekick nonetheless. The other guy (Shaq) was the MVP of the Finals. Period. Just as David Robinson was the second guy to Tim Duncan when he won with the Spurs.
Last of all Jordan knew his limitations at first and didn't force a lot of outside shots, especially not from the three point line. Kobe's darn ego and immaturity kept him taking long range shots instead of higher percentage shots. That is all Kobe's fault. Plus when Jordan shot 50% or better, even in his first few years, he never had a teammate like Shaq who could draw most of the defense's attention. Jordan got ALL of the attention from the defense and still lit teams up with a very high shooting percentage. Kobe shot under 45% even with Shaq being the key focus of the defenders. That, sir, is a joke. And that ain't hating. That's telling it like it is.
Kobe is a great player. No one's denying that. He's top 20 all-time at this point. But we don't need to make up numbers to appreciate how special he is.
from 4 months ago
Easy Kenner! He has pointed out that this was just more for fun. You don't know who he would've been drafted by and what kind of team he would've been on. Let's say he would've stayed all four years. That means he is going into Kenyon Martin's draft class. So he would've been drafted more then likely by New Jersey. Well assuming New Jersey makes the trade for Jason Kidd he would've been on the New Jersey Nets team that was ripping apart the Eastern Conference on their way to the NBA Finals twice.
Had he only stayed 3 years in college he would've probably been drafted number one and gone to the bulls.
The 1998 draft would've sent him to the Clippers had the lottery gone the same way.
The 1997 draft might have sent him to Philadelphia to pair up with Allen Iverson. I don't think the Spurs would've taken him over Duncan is the reason there.
See it's too hard to tell but all Rob did was have a little fun with it.
from 4 months ago
Wow, Kobe and Kidd or Kobe and Iverson. Thats something to day-dream about
4 months ago
rob, great article...
talk about putting stats into a meaningful perspective...
4 months ago
in our time kobe is the best kobe and iverson go out day in day out never get hurt give credit, everybody hates the best. he is no jordan but nobody is. in our time kobe is the best u don't like it live with it he's olny getting better. lennox t.o canada
4 months ago
"Okay. He is taking as amny shots. But Jordan took more quality shots based upon his fg percentage. Since Kobe takes as many attempts but shoots a much worse percentage his shooting is less efficient . Therefore he basically has to jack up shots to come close to keeping pace with Jordan's output. Very impressive."
you obviously did not pay attention to the true fg% rob explained to you earlier. pure fg% is a misleading stat. jordan still has a slightly better true fg%, but kobe's true fg% is still good. however, in my opinion, i believe jordan was a slightly more efficient scorer, although both are equally talented scorers.
"Look...there is nothing more absurd than your speculation of what Kobe would have averaged if he stayed four years in college. The fact is he didn't. Should I speculate what Iverson would have averaged his first years in the NBA if he had spent all four years in college too? What Stoudemire would have averaged? How can you begin to predict such stuff? So lets stick to the real world. iI the real world Kobe's points per game is 25. Deal with it."
do you realize how speculation works? it works under reasonable and logical circumstances, not far fetched ones. what are you trying to imply? that if iverson stayed all 4 years of college, instead of averaging 23 his rookie year he would have averaged 30? the fact is that iverson and jordan likely maxed out their rookie year potential given the number of minutes they played (ever heard of diminishing returns?). on the other hand, if kobe played in college and were drafted to a high draft pick, he would have been the focal point of the team and would have been a starter instead of a bench player. and if he were a starter, he would have averaged at least 30 minutes putting up numbers like iverson or jordan or lebron or durant their rookie years.
"Next of all if Kobe had stayed in college for four years he would have been drafted #1 out of school and he would have not fooled a small market team like Charlotte into trading him to a team like Los Angeles. So if you want to speculate about his going to school then please speculate about the ENTIRE scenario. He would have gone to some terrible team and would have likely never been paired with Shaq in his prime. As a result the chances are he would never have won those 3 championships and would be currently without a ring. And if had not won that championship ring then he would not be rated so high on your list. Understand? That's why speculating on what he would have done without going over all the possible outcomes is foolish."
true, he might not have 3 rings by now, but isn't it also a possibility that he might? jordan didn't win a ring until 6 years into his career. and even if he might not have 3 by now, who's to say he won't have any in the next 10 years? you act like his career's already etched in stone. you see, speculation doesn't work for such unpredictable situations like winning a championship, but stats are information you can easily extrapolate to varying circumstances, which is why it is reasonable to make the hypothesis in the article. plus, your case that he would be on a worse team further proves the point that even if kobe might not have won a ring the first half of his career, his stats would be astronomically larger than it would be on a better laker team.
"Also the reason why I brought up Shaq in my previous post was to point out (like with David Robinson) Kobe was never THE GUY on his championship teams. He wasn't Jordan, he wasn't Bird, he wasn't Olajuwan. He was the sidekick. A very good one, but a sidekick nonetheless. The other guy (Shaq) was the MVP of the Finals. Period. Just as David Robinson was the second guy to Tim Duncan when he won with the Spurs."
if you watched the lakers play during their 3peat run, you would know kobe was THE GUY on the team. kobe's being a sidekick and the lakers being shaq's team were only the media's spin on how the lakers operated. kobe was only a "side-kick" nominally and the lakers were shaq's team nominally, but it was kobe's consistent clutchness that won playoff series when shaq was sitting on the bench due to foul trouble or his miserable free throw shooting.
"Last of all Jordan knew his limitations at first and didn't force a lot of outside shots, especially not from the three point line. Kobe's darn ego and immaturity kept him taking long range shots instead of higher percentage shots. That is all Kobe's fault. Plus when Jordan shot 50% or better, even in his first few years, he never had a teammate like Shaq who could draw most of the defense's attention. Jordan got ALL of the attention from the defense and still lit teams up with a very high shooting percentage. Kobe shot under 45% even with Shaq being the key focus of the defenders. That, sir, is a joke. And that ain't hating. That's telling it like it is."
are you saying kobe's ego is what's telling him to shoot more 3's than jordan? phil jackson and tex winter have publicly stated kobe has much more range than jordan ever had and is a better pure shooter than jordan. of course a player whose skills lie in a certain field is going to try more of that particular action. is steve nash's ego telling him to make more assists? is tyson chandler's ego telling him to grab more rebounds? a player is going to do more of what he can do better. i don't doubt kobe has a huge ego, but you are attributing your own, personal distaste to kobe's actions.
"Kobe is a great player. No one's denying that. He's top 20 all-time at this point. But we don't need to make up numbers to appreciate how special he is."
this isn't making up numbers. this is putting in context what realistically would have been kobe's career if he had similar playing circumstances as jordan, iverson, lebron, or durant.
from 4 months ago
Thanks Jeff. It seems all my articles have at least one "Kenner" telling me how ridiculous they are. Its good to have people on my side
4 months ago
Good point Jeff. Kenner even asked if Rob was a 7th grader. People who don't feel too great about themselves need constant reassurance, and that includes bringing people down. Rob did not say Kobe is better than Jordan, he was comparing the two, and simply pointing out how great Kobe really is. Don't be hating.
4 months ago
I'm sure Kenner knows better than that.
2 months ago
Isn't Kenner the company who makes Barbie dolls?
2 months ago
"So let's knock off his first four years for "college" and see what comes out, shall we?"
uh.... riiiiiight.... just take off Kobe's 4 worst scoring seasons and let's see how it all shakes out?
Nonsense.
You cannot eliminate stats simply because you don't like how they bring down his numbers. Would you be as willing to discard those first four seasons if he put up good numbers? I didn't think so. So let's not get silly here... we must consider in totality everything he's done on an NBA floor.
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