I’ve had this conversation with many people many times but I still don’t think everyone knows all the facts before they give their opinion.
This conversation involves the hated Kobe Bryant and the unanimously loved Michael Jordan.
It’s very easy to start arguing about which player is better and which is not and I also know the majority of you will never, ever, say Kobe Bryant even comes close to MJ because of the love affair everyone has for his Airness along with the hatred you have for the best player in our lifetime, Kobe Bryant.
I don’t know why people hate on Kobe so much, maybe it’s because he’s so damn good or cocky or because he’s killed your team countless times but that’s neither here or there. So let me get back to the topic at hand.
Let’s start off with getting the obvious stats out of the way...
G/F - Michael Jordan
1st Round, 3rd Overall (Chicago Bulls)
1984 - 1993
1994 - 1998
2001 - 2003
6 Championship Rings
6 NBA Finals MVP
5 Time MVP (1988, 1991, 1992, 1996, 1998)
14 Time All-Star
3 Time All-Star MVP
9 Time ALL NBA Defensive First Team
11 Time All NBA Team (10 First, 1 Second)
1984 Rookie of the Year
1988 Defensive Player of the Year
10 Time Scoring Champion
2 Time NBA Slam Dunk Champion
Most Points: 69
Most FG Made: 27
Most 3-PT Made: 7
Most FT Made: 26
Most Rebounds: 18
Most Assists: 17
Most Steals: 10
Most Blocks: 6
Most Minutes Played: 56
Career Stat Line: 30.1ppg, 6.2rpg, 5.3apg, 2.35spg, .83bpg, .497% FG, .835% FT, .327% 3PT
G/F Kobe Bryant
1st Round, 13th Overall (Charlotte Hornets)
1996 - Current
3 Championship Rings
9 Time NBA All-Star Team
2 Time NBA All-Star MVP
9 Time All NBA Selection (5 First, 2 Second, 2 Third)
7 Time All NBA Defensive Team (5 First, 2 Second)
2 Time Scoring Champion
Slam Dunk Champion
Most Points: 81
Most FG Made: 28
Most 3-PT Made: 12
Most FT Made: 23
Most Rebounds: 15
Most Assists: 15
Most Steals: 17
Most Blocks: 5
Most Minutes Played: 54
Career Stat Line: 24.6ppg, 5.2rpg, 4.5apg, 1.5spg, .60bpg, .453% FG, .838% FT, .337% 3PT
Now looking at those numbers, it’s very easy to say that Michael is the better player by far but don’t forget that Kobe’s career is not over yet. Including this year, Bryant has 4 seasons left playing as the best player in the league and after that his decline will start.
KB will never beat MJ in Finals MVP and regular season MVPs no matter how long he plays but he can beat his airness in championships won especially with his new cast of players. Also, Kobe can surpass Michael in All Star appearances, All Star MVPs, All NBA Teams and All NBA Defense teams.
And as for the career stat line, Kobe can catch up in all areas except for FG %. For now, let’s not go into the what can happen and what can’t and instead look into some of the other categories and determine who indeed is better.
1) Making others around him better
The one topic everyone seems to bring up is the fact that Kobe doesn’t make those around him better whereas Jordan always made those around him better. Over and over again, this single fact is brought up but no one ever looks at the players they are talking about.
Without a doubt, Jordan had a superior supporting cast around him than Kobe. Note: I’m referring to the cast Kobe has post Shaq era and pre-Gasol era.
Now, is it Kobe’s fault that those around him can’t make open shots? Is it his fault that after he gets doubled and even sometimes tripled team, Smush Parker couldn’t make an open jumper or Lamar Odom doesn’t know how to shoot?
Now if those players could hit a couple of shots extra per game, Kobe’s assist total would be much higher and the Lakers would win a lot more games. And from that, Kobe would not have been robbed of an MVP award and people actually may think twice when they say he doesn’t make those around him better.
It’s not Kobe’s responsibility to make sure the likes of Odom and Smush or Kwame Brown learn how to make layups or how to dunk the ball.
2) Jordan was a better teammate
Countless times Kobe’s been referred to as a horrible teammate. While that may be true, but if you’re comparing him and Jordan, then you’re way off base.
Kobe’s had his fair share of run-ins with his teammates and coaches, most notably Shaq and now Bynum. Most of Kobe’s altercations with his teammates have been verbal except for the one time Shaq and him got physical.
Jordan on the other hand had countless run ins with teammates. He even slapped Steve Kerr and knocked Will Perdue during practice and verbally abused Bill Cartwright during games.
As I’ve read, Cartwright was giving Jordan a pick and Michael told him to get the fuck out of his way and later told Cartwright not to get in his way unless Jordan says so. Also, him and Pippen weren’t always the greatest of friends or teammates. They both didn’t like each other that much.
Now obviously this was never blown out of proportion like it was with Shaq and Kobe and obviously Kobe took the worst of that one. It’s been said Kobe ran out Phil Jackson the first time around and while that may or may not be true (It's said Phil Jackson wanted more money and when refused, left) but let’s not forget Jordan ran out Doug Collins.
So to say Jordan was a better teammate than Kobe is an absurd statement.
3) Kobe’s a ball hog
Everyone has this notion that Kobe’s a ball hog without even watching any of his games and since most of us didn’t see Jordan play on a regular basis, you can’t say whether or not he was a ball hog.
The main argument against Kobe is that he takes too many shots and doesn’t pass the ball. Is it his fault that when there are 3 seconds left in the shot clock, his teammates pass him the ball and expect him to be something miraculous?
I’ve watched countless Laker games and whenever the Laker offense is stuck or can’t do anything or the shot clock is winding down, Kobe is given the ball and he has to do something and thus he ends up shooting some ridiculous shots.
Also, Kobe averaged over 30ppg and everyones calling him a hog but what about Jordan? I don’t remember anyone referring to him as a hog even when he was averaging 37.1ppg or 35ppg. Over his entire playing career, Jordan dominated the ball and yet no one refers to him as a hog but the perfect player and now that Kobe is doing the same thing, he’s nothing but a ball hog.
4) The Zone Defense
During Michael's day, teams were not allowed to play the Zone which we see from almost every team nowadays. Now you might think this is not a big deal but think again. This meant that Jordan was covered man-to-man and and once he beat his man, there was pretty much no stopping him.
Jordan took full advantage of this because let’s face it, there was no one that could guard him and thus he scored a lot and got to the rim more often than not. The Zone came into effect in 2001, just as Kobe was getting into his prime. The Zone takes away individual match-ups and makes it harder for players to get to the rim.
Now in the zone, if you got 4 offensive players on one side and one offensive player on the other, it doesn’t mean that you’re gonna have the 4 defensive players on one side as well. The defensive players stay and cover their area. So if you isolate Kobe on the elbow, he still has to go through 3 players to score.
Now Kobe’s got 3 people coming at him and when he passes the ball to a teammate, is it his fault Kwame Brown has girly hands and catch it or can’t make a layup?
Jordan never had the problem of facing a zone. He could beat anyone guarding him and by the time someone came over to help, it was either too late or Jordan would just dunk on that person.
Now you may think this is not a big deal, but when the rest of the league knows that Kobe can’t be stopped and he’s the only one scoring, it’s not rocket science to know that you should switch to a zone to at least slow him down or take him out of his comfort zone.
5) Opposing teams and guards
To this day, I don’t believe Jordan played against the same competition and defenders that Kobe has to deal with on a daily basis. The one person that comes to mind from MJs days that could have given him trouble is “The Glove” Gary Payton.
He was the only perimeter dominant defender from that era that comes to mind but he never played against MJ that much. Other than that, I don’t recall a lot of good defenders guarding Jordan and that’s why he could do what he did with ease. Players that guarded him a lot were the likes of John Starks and Joe Dumars. Now they didn’t suck but they weren’t as big or strong like Wade, Bowen, LeBron, or T-Mac.
Now without a doubt MJ went up against some of the best bigs this league as ever seen such as Hakeen Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson and Karl Malone but they didn’t change the league like Tim Duncan and Shaq have. Also, MJ never had back to back MVP winners in his own conference to deal with like Kobe has with Tim Duncan and Steve Nash. And let’s not forget the fact that when Jordan started winning his championships, the Magic led Lakers were on a downward spiral and the Bad Boy Pistons were too old to keep up.
Like it or not, the competition Bryant has to deal with is not the same competition that Jordan had to deal with it.
6) The Media
The Media has played a big part in whether we like or don’t like Kobe.
Kobe’s been scrutinized by the media ever since he declared that he was coming straight to the NBA whereas Jordan was the media darling. He was protected by the media like no player ever has or will.
The only media outlet that ever looked into Jordan’s personal life was the tabloids and no one never gave those a second look. Whereas anything and everything Kobe does is on the front pages of newspapers.
Also, Jordan wasn’t exactly the perfect husband because if he was, his divorce wouldn’t have cost him $168 million. And what about Jordan’s gambling addiction? No one ever mentioned that back then and hardly anyone mentions it now but MJ is a gambling addict. He once held up his teams flight by 2 hours because he didn’t want to lose a shooting competition to Rip Hamilton in his Washington days.
If MJ’s life was covered like Kobe’s life is being covered, everyone would have a different view of his Airness. Also, the fact that the internet was not as big back in Michael's day makes a big difference. The internet gets information from everywhere and the rumour mill is spread across the globe.
If MJ was in Vegas losing money today, someone, somewhere would write about it.
The majority of people just hate Kobe so much as a person that you won’t even recognize what he can do on the court. At the end of the day, whether you believe it or not, Kobe is as a good defender as Jordan, is a better long range shooter and has the same killer instinct.
Only difference is that MJ played in a different era and was the first to do what he did. If you switch the two, Kobe would have had the love affair, he could have led those teams to championships and Jordan would ALSO have problems playing with Shaq because like it or not, MJ’s ego is as big as Kobe’s.
Like Jemele Hill of ESPN said, “The idea that Kobe is better than Jordan — or even the best player in this league — is as repugnant to some folks as a rectal exam.”
And like Mark Jackson once said, “When it’s all said and done, Kobe will be the best player to ever play the game.”
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4 months ago
Well I still think MJ is better, and yes Michael made everyone around him better, I haven't seen that out of Kobe ever.
What are the total stats, I would like to see that as well. Jordan could have played many years in between . Plus your avg is considering he weak years when he came back.
Overall great article, keep up the good work !
from 4 months ago
Ad to that Kobe is a better ball handler than Jordan was, and a better shooter than Jordan ever thought about being. Plus, they are both lock down defenders, nobody in the NBA has ever been more competitive than both of them. slight edge to Kobe.
from 4 months ago
The difference between Kobe and Jordan is not in numbers... not in championships... but in something far more subtle. There's no doubt in my mind that Kobe may be the physically more gifted but Michael Jordan is someone that I will wish my children could have watched live.
Plus, Jordan would have had finished with 7 or 8 championships if he never went into baseball is a fact that no one is mentioning!
4 months ago
i'm a huge kobe fan, but i still think jordan is better (not by much) and better only because of his complete career. talent wise they're both on equal ground. this whole "making your team mates better" is a load of crap and a phrase people have been throwing around without understanding it for the last 3 years now. nobody makes anyone better. you're either good or you're not; you either improve yourself or not. jordan didn't make pippen, kerr, kukoc, and rodman great at what they did.
4 months ago
i think you've definitely persuaded me there, and i think maybe neither is better, they are just playing in a class by themselves
4 months ago
Dude, I cannot believe you wrote this article. At first, I was just going to respond without reading it, by saying you're crazy. Then, I decided to read it, because there is some merit to the discussion about who is better (although, it's a weak discussion). But, as I started reading it, I couldn't finish. You're reasoning is WAY off. You are about to tell me that the likes of Dickey Simpkins, Randy Brown, Jud Buechler, Luc Longley, Bill Wennington, Brian Williams, a dead Robert Parish, a washed up Ron Harper, Steve Kerr, and Jason Caffey (the 1996-97 Bulls roster) were better teammates than the likes of Derek Fisher, Chucky Atkins, Luke Walton, Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, Devean George, Jumaine Jones, Brian Cook, Brian Grant, Chris Mihm, Vlade Divac, and some others. The only ones I will give you being "better" are Scottie and Dennis. The rest of the lineups are favoring the Lakers, albeit not by much, but still are.
And, to say that Kobe playing against zone defenses makes it harder on him is just plain ridiculous. I can tell you know nothing about basketball if you think playing against a zone defense makes being an offensive player harder than one going against a man-to-man defense. And, if you've never heard of defensive rotation before, in man-to-man defense, you might want to read up on it. Mike didn't just blow by one guy and then have a clear path to the basket. If anything, you are describing a zone defense, in which the player doesn't need to blow by anybody, because he's not being face guarded, in the first place. Besides, not many teams play the zone on Kobe. He's too good. They have a man on him at all times. If anything, they will play a match-up zone, but always have someone in his face, off the ball.
Another weak argument is that Kobe plays against better defenders. Obviously, you don't watch the NBA today, because nobody plays defense. And, to say Mike never went up against tough defenders is another ridiculous comment. Obviously, you've never heard of Joe Dumars, Alvin Robertson, Maurice Cheeks, Derek Harper, John Stockton, Dennis Johnson, Michael Cooper, Mookie Blaylock, Nate McMillan, Dan Majerle, and several others that played againts MJ.
I'll give you props on trying to make an argument for Kobe being better, but you'll have to come proper with the arguments next time. In no way is Kobe a better all-around player than Michael. He never will be. He is the best player in the NBA right now, although that statement can even be argued. Me, personally, I say he's the most dangerous player in the NBA, but not the best. There is a difference.
from 4 months ago
cmon man chris mihm and brina grant never really played with kobe..devean george cant hit an open shot to sae his life, jumaine jones? brian cok was streaky shooter, caron played while everyone else was hurt then got traded, vlade was old and retiring...the only one mentioning r dfish and luke...u forget ron harper was a leader y else would phil have signed hiimfor the start of the lakers 3peat? pippen took the bulls to the finals too and wasnt too bad with the blazers either. odom needed dwade to ball and isnt as good a scoreer and not even close to a defender like PIP was
from 4 months ago
I wasn't making the argument that his teammates were better than Mike's. I was simply showing that Mike played with just as crappy teammates as Kobe did. Dickey Simpkins? Bill Wennington? Luc Longley? Jud Buechler? Cmon now, let's be serious.
4 months ago
Peter,
I ask you one question ...
If Jordan makes team mates better, could Jordan have made Kwame Brown better during his Chicago Bulls days ?
Obviously, Jordan did not make Kwame Brown a better player when they were in Wahington together...and to think Jordan chose Kwame as the no.1 overall pick.
from 4 months ago
You are ridiculous. Of course MJ didn't make Kwame Brown better. You can also say that about Kobe though. He hasn't exactly made Kwame any better either.Kobe isn't fit to hold MJ's shorts.
from about 1 month ago
Well, I would like to see a 40 year old Kobe make a Kwame better..
4 months ago
Does being a team leader mean anything? MJ led 6 teams to titles, Kobe was the sidekick on his 3 championship teams.
4 months ago
Kobe isn't even the best player right now in the game. He doesn't belong in the same sentence as Jordan. You fail to mention how Kobe doesn't have to deal with handchecking and how the 3 second defensive rule now in place makes it harder for a big man to guard the basket.
from 4 months ago
thats a great point about the hand checking and 3 second defensive rule, good spot, however, Kobe is WITHOUT QUESTION the best and most complete player in the NBA at the moment. May he one day be surpassed by James? perhaps. I dont put Kobe above Jordan, however Kobe is and will be the closest thing we will ever have for a LONG time.
4 months ago
It's ridiculous how people say Kobe doesnn't make his teammates better.
Smush Parker was a perrenial starter when he played with Kobe, and averaged a respectable 13 points, 2 steals, 4 rebs and 4 assists, w/o Kobe he just just got cut from the worst team in the NBA, the Heat. Robert Horry had by far his most productive years playing with Kobe and Shaq, Chris Mihm had by far his best years when he first got to LA and played with Kobe, and almost made an All-Star game. Lamar became a much more efficient player and has had a higher career averages across the board since he came to LA. Kwame "hands of concrete" brown even had moments when he played alongside Kobe (He's now averaged 1.8 points and 2 rebounds in Memphis) Derek Fisher won more accolades playing with Kobe (before and After Shaq) then he ever did when he played with Golden State and Utah, and if you candidly look at it, Shaq had his best years playing alongside KB24, (and not the other way around despite what the media will have you to believe.) Kobe has made Pau Gasol look like the best PF in the NBA, and Andrew Bynum, Jordan Farmar, and Sasha wouldn't be putting the numbers they currently are if kobe wasn't constantly drawing two and three defenders and giving them open looks.
It's crazy how eveyone always says Kobe doesn't make his teammates better, but if you take a look a nearly every player that played with the Lakers over the last ten years, they ALL had much better numbers when they played with Kobe. Even Snaq.
4 months ago
Shaq had the best years of his career playing with Kobe?? I wonder if that had anything to do with the fact that.......................HE WAS IN HIS PRIME!!!!! Shaq was always great until he got too old.
4 months ago
Kwame is a stiff no matter who he plays with. It's not a good argument to bring the Wizards Jordan into it. Although I guarantee that Jordan at that age is better than Kobe will be at that age.
4 months ago
Imagine if Jordan played with Shaq in his prime, and guys like Glen Rice, Rick Fox and Big Shot Bob. They may have lost 5 or 6 games a season.
4 months ago
Well i think that Jordan is great. But when people say that Kobe's not as good if not better is just dumb. But hey i forget who had to go to collage cuz he was not good enought to make the nba right out of high school. But Kobe was so it anyone talks about that Kobe is not as good at Jordan then you know that they know nothing.
By: Sweet pea
4 months ago
Well i think that Jordan is great. But when people say that Kobe's not as good if not better is just dumb. But hey i forget who had to go to collage cuz he was not good enought to make the nba right out of high school. But Kobe was so if anyone talks about that Kobe is not as good at Jordan then you know that they know nothing.
By: Sweet pea
4 months ago
Well i think that Jordan is great. But when people say that Kobe's not as good if not better is just dumb. But hey i forget who had to go to collage cuz he was not good enought to make the nba right out of high school. But Kobe was so if anyone talks about that Kobe is not as good as Jordan then you know that they know nothing.
By: Sweet pea
4 months ago
Kobe is playing against better defenses? Because the zone is tougher to break and today's players are bigger and more athletic?
Jordan not only played against man-to-man defenses, but also in an era where hand-checking was legal, which gives a defender a significant advantage in terms of anticipating, leverage and balance. Plus, the NBA was a lot more rugged back in Jordan's day, in both play and officiating. Case in point, the Bulls' playoff series against the Pistons and Knicks. The routine fouls that occurred in those games -- especially the ones inflicted upon Jordan -- would be flagrant fouls today. I seriously believe Kobe wouldn't have scored 81 points in the late 80s, early 90s; they'd knock him on his butt before he reached 40.
I'll say this: Kobe is, all-around, the more skilled player. He's got a more expansive arsenal offensively, that's for sure.
But that doesn't mean he was the better offensive player. Jordan scored ridiculous amounts of points in his prime, everybody knows that. But people tend to overlook what I think is supremely underrated -- his field goal percentage. MJ regularly shot over 50% from the field. Kobe's best mark is .469. MJ was just as much of a threat on offense, but was far more efficient.
And I haven't even discussed defense. Kobe is as good a defender as Jordan...when he wants. Unlike Kobe, Jordan never took a play off defensively.
4 months ago
Kobe is playing against better defenses? Because the zone is tougher to break and today's players are bigger and more athletic?
Jordan not only played against man-to-man defenses, but also in an era where hand-checking was legal, which gives a defender a significant advantage in terms of anticipating, leverage and balance. Plus, the NBA was a lot more rugged back in Jordan's day, in both play and officiating. Case in point, the Bulls' playoff series against the Pistons and Knicks. The routine fouls that occurred in those games -- especially the ones inflicted upon Jordan -- would be flagrant fouls today. I seriously believe Kobe wouldn't have scored 81 points in the late 80s, early 90s; they'd knock him on his butt before he reached 40.
I'll say this: Kobe is, all-around, the more skilled player. He's got a more expansive arsenal offensively, that's for sure.
But that doesn't mean he was the better offensive player. Jordan scored ridiculous amounts of points in his prime, everybody knows that. But people tend to overlook what I think is supremely underrated -- his field goal percentage. MJ regularly shot over 50% from the field. Kobe's best mark is .469. MJ was just as much of a threat on offense, but was far more efficient.
And I haven't even discussed defense. Kobe is as good a defender as Jordan...when he wants. Unlike Kobe, Jordan never took a play off defensively.
4 months ago
ah.... this f****** argument will go on...
the best player is one who can adapt his game at will...
both jordan and kobe could do that.
nobody mentions that kobe spent most of his career with Shaq. This means, Kobe had less room to operate. Don't tell me that you all have forgotten Kobe's 9 straight 40 point games when Shaq was out. The fact is Kobe has had to sacrifice his game for the betterment of the team. If Jordan had to do that, he would've blown up because his ego is HUGE as well. Both players are equally good IN EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME. their careers are different and that is the ONLY reason why people even argue.
Oh and those people who say sh** like "He doesn't belong in the same sentence as Jordan" should be safely ignored. They have no clue.
4 months ago
This is a weird argument. The NBA was different when Jordan was in his prime and not with the Wizards. I think that is when Jordan jumped the shark. If you have Jordan playing against zones instead of the madatory man-to-man they had then his numbers would be even better than they were. Jordan was about 500 times better the player and person than Kobe. Jordan had his difficulties in marriage as well, he though, got divorced and Juanita is currently piloting a money train. Good post, but the numbers presented don't fairly depict things as well as they normally do.
4 months ago
All true. I think the zone defense and the higher level of competition are two key points. In addition, Kobe's stat line is lower because one has to factor in the two years he sat on the end of the Lakers bench after comming straight out of highschool.
4 months ago
jordan was 500 times better the player and person than kobe? are you smoking crack?
4 months ago
ok you think jordan is 500 times better. well just by that comment i can tell that you know nothing about how good kobe is.
4 months ago
I am about to own this thread.
Kobe has the talent to be as good as MJ, but he will fall short simply because he won't have the accolades that MJ has. Even if you were to say they were equal in talent, MJ will always have him beat because he would have him in all the important accolades and categories
MVP's - Jordan = 5; Kobe = 0 (right now)
Titles - Jordan = 6 (as the #1 Option); Kobe = 3 (as the #2 Option)
Finals MVP's - Jordan = 6; Kobe = 0 (right now)
DPOY - Jordan = 1; Kobe = 0
Scoring Titles - Jordan = 10; Kobe = 2
Career PPG - Jordan = 30.1 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 24.9
Playoffs PPG - Jordan = 33.4 (Highest Ever); Kobe = 23.3
Playoff Points - Jordan = 5987 - Most Ever Points (179 games); Kobe = 3053 (131 games)
FG% - Jordan - 50% Career; Kobe = 45% Career Thus Far
Playoff FG% - Jordan = 49% Career; Kobe = 44% Career Thus Far
PER (Offensive and Defensive Rating) - Jordan Career = 27.91 (highest ever); Kobe = 23.6
Steals - Jordan = 2.4 SPG Career (with 3 Steals Titles); Kobe = 1.5 SPG
Blocks - Jordan = 0.8 BPG Career (most blocks ever for a guard); Kobe = 0.6
There is no argument here until Kobe can close the gap in the main categories. You can possibly say that Kobe has as much talent as MJ, but no where is he near to being as good or better.
If anyone should be getting compared to MJ on those Lakers teams than it should be Shaq not Kobe. Kobe played the Pippen role. If Kobe was so good he should have been able to win a finals MVP.
Also, Kobe in the finals
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/zillgitt/2004-06-15-zillgitt_x.htm
In 35 Finals games, Jordan averaged 33.6 points, 6.0 rebounds and 6.0 assists a game.
In 19 Finals games, Bryant has averaged 22.2 points, 5.2 rebounds and 4.9 assists a game.
So do you want a guy in MJ who raises his scoring average in the playoffs and finals or a guy like Kobe whose playoff averages and finals averages decrease?
Here is another article
http://www.usatoday.com/sports /basketball/nba/2003-02-06-dup ree-team_x.htm
Here were the requirements
NBA ALL-TIME LEADERS:
(All statistical records + playoff records + career averages + playoff averages + MVPs + Finals MVPs + Rings + All-1st teams + All-1st Defensive Teams + All-star games + All-star MVPS)
This is how it broke down each category:
NBA MVP awards won (five points each)
NBA championships won (five points each)
All-Star Games selected to play in (one point each)
All-NBA first-team selections (two points each)
All-defensive first team (one point each)
NBA Finals MVP awards (two points each)
All-Star MVP awards (one point each)
Individual statistical titles (two points each) — restricted to points, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage and free throw percentage, the stats the league has used the longest
Career averages (six points each) — if a player is the NBA career leader in scoring average, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage or free throw percentage
Career playoff averages (five points each) — for each category the player leads
That was the criteria used
1st Place: MJ, 149 total points
2nd Place: Wilt, 124 total points
3rd Place: Bill, 118 total points
4th Place: Jabbar, 114 total points
5th Place: Magic, 102 total points
Now adding up the current players you get (Active Players):
1st Place: Shaq, 85 total points
2nd Place: Tim, 71 total points
3rd Place: KB, 45 total points
Kobe has like a 1/3 of the points that MJ has, he isn't even close.
4 months ago
24>23
from 4 months ago
By that logic that means that 31>24
Shawn Marion > Kobe
See how stupid that is?
Also MJ never lost a series with Homecourt Advantage, he is 24-0 in series with the better record, homecourt/higher seed. Kobe got blasted by the Pistons in 2004 and shot 38% and scored 22.6 ppg.
In fact, MJ NEVER had a series in the playoffs (entire playoffs) in which he averaged less than 27.3 ppg in that series.
Also Kobe has had Phil Jackson the past two years and still lost in the 1st round. MJ never lost in the first round with Phil Jackson.
4 months ago
this article is tragically flawed. As good as kobe is, He's still the 2nd best. and the stats you posted only make this post stupid:
Jordan had 10 scoring titles to Kobe's 2, Jordan made all-nba team 11 times to kobe's 9 and All but 1 of Jordan's selection were 1st team. Jordan was defensive player of the year and a 6 time MVP.
come on man, as good as kobe is, he's not better than MJ.
4 months ago
In the beginning you show that Jordan has better stats and a resume. true and that doesn't help your argument. than you never really show me why he is better than Jordan. You say that the media plays a big part in whether we don't like Kobe. That has to do with his personality. How does this show he's better than Jordan? You say that Kobe wasn't as good at making his teammates better as Jordan's post Shaq because his players weren't as good as Jordan's. Once again how does this proves he's better than Jordan? You say that just like Kobe, Jordan wasn't that good of a teammate either, by talking about him being a dictator and having so many run-ins with players. besides the fact that Jordan probably made his teammates better by being so hard on them, how does this prove Kobe is better than Jordan as a player? The zone defense and the fact that Kobe plays against harder competition is your only real arguments. But I show below why these arguments aren't very effective.
you say "Now they didn’t suck but they weren’t as big or strong like Wade, Bowen, LeBron, or T-Mac." 3 of those 4 aren't really known as great defenders. so what are you talking about.
"Now without a doubt MJ went up against some of the best bigs this league as ever seen" thanks your not helping your argument. you finish by saying "Like it or not, the competition Bryant has to deal with is not the same competition that Jordan had to deal with it." But you never really prove it. You talk about how Jordan never had two mvps like Nash and Duncan being in his same conference. Well maybe he would of if Jordan didn't win 5 mvps. You also say those big men "didn’t change the league like Tim Duncan and Shaq have." He played with Shaq when he was in his prime. He never had to go up against Shaq when Shaq was in his prime. so what are you talking about? You already showed how Jordan played against some of the best big the league has ever seen. I thought maybe you were going to show us how maybe Kobe played against better guards than Jordan did or something like that. where do you prove that Kobe played with better competition. By listing out three players Nash, Duncan and O'neal (who he played with).
continued on second post......
4 months ago
You talk about how the zone defense makes it harder on Kobe. well Jordan played when hand-checking was illegal and fouls weren't called as easily. Ever notice since the new rules, the amount of points teams score is a lot higher than it was when Jordan played.
The reason Kobe is called a ball hog sometimes is because he constantly takes crazy shots with multiple defenders around him and in his face. I have seen so many games where Kobe isn't shooting well and he just continues chucking up shots and its almost as if he forgets his teammates are even playing offense. Kobe has gotten better that he used to be, I'll admit that. But from the ages of 23-29 his field goal percentage is around 45% while Jordan's career field goal percentage from the ages of 23-29 were around 53%. By the way you use the excuse that Kobe gets the ball at the end of the shot clock. so? And Jordan wasn't given the ball to him at the end of a shot clock. haha of course he was.
Another thing, showing that Kobe's teammates weren't that good the last three years, doesn't prove that he makes his teammates better than Jordan.
Another thing, Jordan had his run in with teammates and yes he was a bit of a dictator at times. So what? Thats what made him so great. He was so competitive, and forced everyone to give everything they had.
so what? Once again How is Kobe better than Jordan because of this?
lastly the media loves Kobe. Once he came in the league he was anointed the next Jordan. The media needs a another Jordan, and they do there best to make Kobe seem like he is. almost every analyst says Kobe is the best basketball player in the league. a lot of the reasons fans don't like Kobe is because he comes off as arrogant, self-centered and spoiled. How come Jordan didn't have so many Anti-fans the way Kobe does? not because of the media!
I just don't really see how you show that Kobe is better than Jordan? I feel as though you put so much time in trying to explain how certain images of Kobe aren't true that you forgot that the name of this article is Kobe is better than Jordan!!
4 months ago
That belief is just foolish. First off, your Mark Jackson quote specifically says "will be," not "is."
But I don't even know how you can say that he is right now. Maybe he will eventually, but not even close right now.
4 months ago
this is laughable. Kobe may be great, but Michael is the greatest. No stats or other arguement can even tough this subject
4 months ago
First, just like Scott said, your argument is way off. Michael is the best player to ever play and his stats and rings show it. Secondly, how can Kobe be mentioned as better then Jordan when he isn't even the best player to date. As of this moment in a must win game, I would take LeBron over Kobe. I know most would not, but LeBron has better stats, and more game-winning shots this season as well as the same number of steals per game as Kobe and more blocks. Before you compare Kobe to Jordan, you have to compare Kobe to Lebron.
from 4 months ago
Are you kidding me? SERIOUSLY?! When LeBron a) learns to play defense on a daily basis and b) learns to shoot mid range jumpers and c) concentrates only on basketball, them mention LeBrons name in this conversation.
4 months ago
Wake me when Kobe wins his 7th ring.
He's a great player, but by no means is he better than Michael Jordan.
from 4 months ago
I'll be sure to wake you in 2012. Bynum (21) + Gasol (27) + Kobe (29) + Phil Jackson = Multiple titles
from 4 months ago
Give me a buzz as well!
4 months ago
If that's the case, then I may have to admit that Kobe was better than MJ, which is something that is pretty unthinkable to me right now.
But, that's because I'm a shameless 1990s Bulls homer from Chicago.
4 months ago
This is the most bias article i have read in a while. WHy compare Kobe to Jordan? Is it because he scores alot of points because that doesnt make sense. Michael Jordan weak years as a wizard are much better that most NBA superstars. He dropped 51 Points at the age of 38 and set record after record at 38,39 and 40 years. Oh yeah it was the same defense that you say kobe is facing. Jordan has never had a year where he had less that 20 points in his career. I believe some of Kobe's numbers are decieving because he came it the NBA as a 18 year old were as Jordan came into the league as 23 years of age. So if we are going to talk about totals and numbers lets talk about how many games they did it in not how fast they did it in. Kobe is the best player in the league but unlike jordan he isnt the undisputed king because Lebron it on his tail. Lebron came out of high school too and if you compare Kobe to lebron at 23 years it isnt even close. We should be comparing Lebron to MJ because thier numbers are actually closer. Kobe has been known to was film on Jordan and better himself by those films which is good becuase you learn from the master but you cant just come out of the blue and say kobe is better that Jordan becuase you prove or argument is flawed and bias. Kobe will be a legend when he retires but lebron has a better chance of surpassing the icon that is Air Jordan.
4 months ago
kobe is better than lebron even though lebron had "better" early year stats. both lebron and jordan went to lottery-level teams while kobe was drafted to a team with shaq and a lot of proven veterans. not only this, kobe was the first ever guard in history to be drafted from high school, so the nba was cautious with kobe's first several years; kobe (and to a less extent garnett, since he was a big man) was pretty much the test case for all future high school players.
here's something to help you understand why kobe's "worse" stats are not because of his lack of skills or anything like that, but because of the different situations each player faces:
durant has stats that completely own kobe's rookie year stats. but does anyone think he's better than kobe? durant, again like jordan and lebron, went to a lottery level team, which is why he became, like jordan and lebron, the main player who is pretty much allowed to shoot as much as he wants.
this is why kobe's early years are deceptively "bad", and which is why it is not unreasonable at all to compare jordan and kobe. finally, although lebron has the stats, he doesn't have the skill or talent that jordan and kobe has.
4 months ago
Scott, you're kidding, right?
Dude you have to watch some games!
Derek Fisher hadn't played with Kobe for three years, Chucky Atkins is a non starter for Denver.
Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and Devean George played well but very inconsistently. Caron became a star but was traded before he could really show his stuff. Lamar Odom has only really shown up this year. But for a no trade clause, Devean George would be playing for NJ, probably coming off the bench.
Jumaine Jones, Brian Cook, not starters. Brian Grant, injured the entire years he was a Laker. He was an expiring contract, Chris Mihm is a decent player, but a backup really. Vlade Divac? 20 minutes from retiring. Luke, well, we like him, but he isn't a starter.
Smush Parker is a question mark to stay with the Clippers, with all the injuries they’ve had! Geez, it was a sad three years!
4 months ago
By the way, I don't have a problem with Kobe being the second best player of all time. I don't think you're case will be a solid one until Kobe's career is over.
You're kidding, right? Derek Fisher hadn't played with Kobe for three years, Chucky Atkins is a non starter for Denver.
Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and Devean George played well but very inconsistently. Caron became a star but was traded before he could really show his stuff. Lamar Odom has only really shown up this year. But for a no trade clause, Devean George would be playing for NJ, probably coming off the bench.
Jumaine Jones, Brian Cook, not starters. Brian Grant, injured the entire years he was a Laker. He was an expiring contract, Chris Mihm is a decent player, but a backup really. Vlade Divac? 20 minutes from retiring. Luke, well, we like him, but he isn't a starter.
Smush Parker is a question mark to stay with the Clippers, with all the injuries they’ve had! Geez, it was a sad three years!
4 months ago
Sorry for the confused double posting! First time!
4 months ago
then you might want to hold off on saying kobe is better than jordan until 2012.
4 months ago
ah. debate like these are like debate concerning religions. it will never end. let us just appreciate what they bring to their respective era. and enjoy them while they are still playing.
4 months ago
it's not about accomplishments and stats; it's about the skills. and kobe's skills are on par with MJs, no doubt about it.
4 months ago
This is a really good article, Kobe hands down is the best player of this era, and I feel he deserves a few more rings and I am routing for them to win it all, BUT, what does all the off the court action have to do with on the court action? The media does not play a factor in this simply because that plays no role in how good a player is or will become, and we all know that the zone defense would have been a joke to MJ as it is to Kobe, he would have mastered it just like he mastered the game of basketball period as a matter of fact he did see the zone defense as a wizard and broke records still scoring 51 pts at 38yrs old HA!, MJ has 6 rings not including the 93-94 season and the 98-99 lockout season in which he was "retired." How is Kobe a far better shooter when MJ's career FG percentage is better than Kobe's? And not to mention MJ had done something no other person has ever done in NBA History, WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITHOUT A DOMINANT BIG MAN, name me one player that has ever done that... pre Jordan or post Jordan...
4 months ago
Jordan did have one of the 50 best players in history in Pippen, one of the best rebounders/defenders in Rodman, and sharpshooters in Kukoc and Kerr. Longley and Grant weren't great, but they did their part in the team. Jordan didn't have a big man, but he had a heck of a team
4 months ago
the media doesn't play a factor in how good a player is, but it certainly plays a factor in how good a player appears to be. the media pretty much honeyed up jordan and made him into a legend, while the media is constantly trying to break kobe down.
4 months ago
Im a huge Kobe fan but why do people bother justifying whether or not Kobe is better than Jordan. Jordan is the greatest player to ever step on a basketball court as of this moment and its impossible to justify that. Fellow kobe fans look at the stats and what Jordan accomplished, is it not superior? However from a KObe standpoint he began his career on the bench something Jordan never had to so some of the discrepency in the sats can be pointed to that factor, but it also goes to show that to compare the greatest of all time to the closest thing well ever get to him should only be done once bryant's career is done and dusted. Who's to say Bryant won't have as many championships as Jordan. Well just have to wait and see. Talent wise they were both about the same.
The thing that perplexes me is how does a guy being compared to Jordan even get mentioned against Lebron by the rest of the media and stupid cavs fanboys. People should spend more time dispelling all the Lebron hype by pointing out his inferiority compared to Bryant than Bryant's inferiority to Jordan.
4 months ago
By that logic that means that 31>24
Shawn Marion > Kobe
See how stupid that is?
Also MJ never lost a series with Homecourt Advantage, he is 24-0 in series with the better record, homecourt/higher seed. Kobe got blasted by the Pistons in 2004 and shot 38% and scored 22.6 ppg.
In fact, MJ NEVER had a series in the playoffs (entire playoffs) in which he averaged less than 27.3 ppg in that series.
Also Kobe has had Phil Jackson the past two years and still lost in the 1st round. MJ never lost in the first round with Phil Jackson.
By that logic that means you're stupid...dumb@$$
4 months ago
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4 months ago
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4 months ago
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4 months ago
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4 months ago
This is a really good article, Kobe hands down is the best player of this era, and I feel he deserves a few more rings and I am routing for them to win it all, BUT, what does all the off the court action have to do with on the court action? The media does not play a factor in this simply because that plays no role in how good a player is or will become, and we all know that the zone defense would have been a joke to MJ as it is to Kobe, he would have mastered it just like he mastered the game of basketball period as a matter of fact he did see the zone defense as a wizard and broke records still scoring 51 pts at 38yrs old HA!, MJ has 6 rings not including the 93-94 season and the 98-99 lockout season in which he was "retired." How is Kobe a far better shooter when MJ's career FG percentage is better than Kobe's? And not to mention MJ had done something no other person has ever done in NBA History, WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP WITHOUT A DOMINANT BIG MAN, name me one player that has ever done that... pre Jordan or post Jordan...
*** so how come this team reach the conference finals without MJ?..or you are just so stupid not to realize how good the bulls are during that time?
4 months ago
u must be sleepy or sumthing, because i didnt understand a word you tacked onto my post... HA!
4 months ago
This is complete old hat. Kobe is a great player but with never be Michael Jordan. Lets get back to writing some informative and current articles because this is getting very boring and to be honest a cash in for writers who have nothing to write.
4 months ago
Kobe fears LeBron.
LeBron owns Kobe.
Kobe won't surpass MJ but LeBron has now surpassed Kobe.
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Kobe fears LeBron.
LeBron owns Kobe.
Kobe won't surpass MJ but LeBron has now surpassed Kobe.
KOBE BRYANT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kobe fears LeBron.
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Kobe won't surpass MJ but LeBron has now surpassed Kobe.
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Kobe fears LeBron.
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Kobe won't surpass MJ but LeBron has now surpassed Kobe.
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Kobe fears LeBron.
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Kobe won't surpass MJ but LeBron has now surpassed Kobe.
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Kobe fears LeBron.
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Kobe won't surpass MJ but LeBron has now surpassed Kobe.
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4 months ago
"so how come this team reach the conference finals without MJ?..or you are just so stupid not to realize how good the bulls are during that time?"
they reached the semifinal not the conference finals. if your going to speak, get your facts right buddy and they had three all stars that year in horace grant, b.j armstrong and Pippen. Grant and armstrong weren't even on the team in 96 when jordans team had 70 wins.
from 4 months ago
ok jerk off, when did i ever mention anything about the bulls as a team? I said that Jordan still had a chance to win titles when he "retired" the first 2 times, i never said anything about 70 wins or what the bulls did without MJ, what are you talking about? And the fact still remains they only went to the conference finals without MJ, he came back in 94-95 and brushed the rust off, unretired 23 and got back in the driver seat and lead the Bulls to 3 more titles Nimrod... so u see it doesnt matter about the conference finals and semi finals when your MJ its about winning titles, which is what he did... now back to regularly scheduled conversation...
4 months ago
Kobe is great, but as you know, he's been playing in this Michael Jordan vortex where everything he does is automatically compared to MJ. That's why he had to change his number to 24 - to acknowledge that fact and stop running from it. There is no way anyone could live up to that kinda hype until the legend of 'his airness' starts to fade away. Thats why I say the next Mike is on the way...at the end of this second generation...it may be LeBron, maybe somebody new (the great white hype?) but Jordan came in with no expectations on him and the excitement around him grew out of going above and beyond anything that had ever been seen before. Isn't something missing if Kobe's skill level doesn't speak for itself and he is always having to prove himself? He is living in the shadow of a giant.
Kobe can lead his teams to last second victories with game-winning shots, but lets be real, my main man Gilbert Arenas can do that, and nobody is including him in "greatest ever" conversations. Ha! I'm sorry Gagan, but I have to see Kobe lead his team to a championship on his own a few times before I can see your argument as legitimate. Kobe Bryant is a champion, but he won't win as many championships as Michael Jordan did, and ultimately, that is the test of who is greatest. Jordan had just as many sorry players on his teams as anybody, but he was a better communicator and held his teammates to a higher standard. He inspired confidence in them. Like John Wooden's UCLA Bruins, and not unlike the Phil Jackson-led Lakers, it was philosophy that united those Bull's teams. However, there's no doubt about it, MJ was the one that made that team move! Jordan was a general on the floor. Kobe is only now realizing what it means to be a leader. Without Shaq, Kobe will be lucky to win another championship, maybe two at best. The guy is great...nobody in their right mind can deny that...but Jordan and Kobe? Come on...
As for the media argument, Michael Jordan was more approachable and likable in front of a camera. Shaq can be funny at times and was definitely more outgoing in front of the camera than Bryant. Kobe took some time to warm up to being in the spotlight (he was a little bit of a loner in those early years) and unfortunately he got the short end of the stick, partly because of the trouble he got into, and also because Jordan was coddled by the media. What you said was true, most of Jordan's problems were covered up. It's unfortunate because Shaq bounced and Kobe has a lot of personality that people don't allow him to express, whether its from people hating on him or what have you. Like I said, he's on the Michael Jordan show, and if Kobe wants to surpass the greatest ever, he is going to have to overcome those comparisons on and off the court. Skill level in and of itself is not enough, accomplishment is how greatness is measured. What legacy will he leave behind?
With so much shifting in the league right now, even the once lowly Celtics are suddenly championship contenders, you've got the mighty King James unlikely title run last year, and if my Wizards can ever get it together, you may see Agent Zero hoisting that trophy one of these years! (lol, you gotta admit, the wizards can surprise you) That's just in the east, which nobody respects...you look at whats happening out west and forget it! Nothing is guaranteed.
What matters is that Kobe Bryant is fun to watch and he is growing as a person, as a leader and as a basketball player. Isn't that growth, in and of itself, exciting to see in anybody? Leave the comparisons for when Kobe retires and you can compare what he and Jordan did over the length of their careers, but you've still gotta have respect for those who came before. Don't bash MJ like what he did was insignificant, and likewise, I think people have to recognize the work ethic that drives Bryant and has allowed him to win 3 championships and to earn all of the accolades he's received. Our words here can't tear down any of that, because they both accomplished more in their lives than most of us will ever dream of. Kobe learned a lot from Mike's example, just like Jordan learned from Magic and Bird, and Magic and Bird learned from the great basketball players that came before them. We've got greatness in our midst, and rather than argue about whether or not it's better than what came before, I'd rather sit back and enjoy the game of basketball.
4 months ago
Actually Jordan had really great players on his team. Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr, Paxson, Grant. It was the perfect team. Jordan didn't start winning until Pippen started maturing and the Bulls started surrounding Jordan with complementary pieces.
4 months ago
all you guys are stupid, I know mj had six champions but kobes rode is far from over common kobes 81, kobe has also took his crapy team to the playoffs he is also a better defender NOW!!!! with a really good team he has a good chance of catching to MJ 6 champions when Kobes carrer is over he is going to have seven
4 months ago
1. Lebron fears KOBE.
KOBE owns Lebron.
Lebron won't surpass KOBE but KOBE has now surpassed MJ.
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Lebron fears KOBE.
KOBE owns Lebron.
Lebron won't surpass KOBE but KOBE has now surpassed MJ.
LEBRON JAMES SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lebron fears KOBE.
KOBE owns Lebron.
Lebron won't surpass KOBE but KOBE has now surpassed MJ.
LEBRON JAMES SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lebron fears KOBE.
KOBE owns Lebron.
Lebron won't surpass KOBE but KOBE has now surpassed MJ.
LEBRON JAMES SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lebron fears KOBE.
KOBE owns Lebron.
Lebron won't surpass KOBE but KOBE has now surpassed MJ.
LEBRON JAMES SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lebron fears KOBE.
KOBE owns Lebron.
Lebron won't surpass KOBE but KOBE has now surpassed MJ.
LEBRON JAMES SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4 months ago
Also, Jordan is perhaps the only player to ever dominate the game so thoroughly without a dominating center. Don't even think about talking about Kobe in the same sentence until he wins about 3 championships without Shaq.
4 months ago
You're an idiot... Jordan's teams were awful without him.
4 months ago
you're an idiot. the bulls had like 56 wins without him and made it to the semifinals and would have gone to the eastern finals if it weren't for a controversial ref decision
4 months ago
This shit has gotten out of hand! Stupid ass kids trying to write about Jordan, leave it to the grown ups, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Kobe is great but once again get rooted in reality. This is a pipe dream (kobe is better than mj) of the current teens and early twenty somethings. Stick to shit you know about, leave this one alone, this here is for grown folks who have seen him play day in and out! This story has officially been declared insane.
4 months ago
If we're just talking stats, then none even comes close to Wilt. Not even MJ....
4 months ago
This isn't even a conversation worth continuing until Kobe catches up (particularly in the Championships and MVP department). He's an explosive scorer and plays lock-down defense, but