Washington has never beaten Notre Dame in a series that stretches back to the late 1940s. The series was renewed the last decade after the retirement and death of former Notre Dame AD legend Moose Krause.
Krause swore that the Irish would never again schedule Washington after the Huskies paid off the refs to keep it close in a game at Husky Stadium back in 1949.
Time heals most things, and the Irish and the Huskies are now starting to play each other regularly. Since the series was renewed, Washington has been outclassed by the Irish, at home and on the road.
This year may prove to be different, since both programs are trying to rebuild from one of the lowest points in their storied histories. UW just may have the edge going into this one.
Most Notre Dame fans blame Tyrone Willingham for most of the team's current problems. It is no secret that Ty didn't recruit that well at Notre Dame. It is also no secret that Charlie Weis did pretty well his first two years using Ty's players.
The Irish fans are not enamored with Weis anymore after last year's pathetic season. Notre Dame demands victories and BCS bowl games every single year—there is little margin for error in South Bend.
Notre Dame is coming off one of its worst seasons in history, and Coach Weis is on the very hot seat after being sainted his first two years as head man at ND.
It’s hard to imagine the Irish repeating last year’s 3-9 campaign in 2008. They were blown out in their first five games, crushed 38-0 by rival USC, and lost to both Air Force and Navy. 6-6 in 2008 is a more likely scenario.
The Irish, like Washington, figure to field a better team in 2008—a much better team, in fact, because of all the talent Weis has been stockpiling. Like Washington, the strength of the team is in the last two recruiting classes, so there is a major maturation process going on.
Young talent aside, there are still major questions about this team on defense, along both lines, and most importantly, from a psychological standpoint. The Irish have to figure who they are, what they represent, and how they are going to get there.
The Notre Dame offense was so bad last year that the defense's troubles sometimes escaped notice, but the fact is this is a very average defensive unit. Notre Dame gave up 30 or more points in each of its first five games, then let Navy score 46 and Air Force score 41 before finding a groove in its last two games. However, those games were against lowly Duke and Stanford.
The lone bright spot for the defense appeared to be in the secondary, where three starters were supposed to return. Safety David Bruton had a great junior campaign and will be looked to as a leader during his senior season. The pass defense was okay last year, and corners Terrail Lambert and Darrin Walls seemed adequate enough to handle most receivers.
Walls unfortunately left the team this summer to head home to deal with undisclosed personal problems, which means the Irish defense is going to have another big hole to fill in 2008. Junior Raeshon McNeil will try to fill the void left by Walls at CB.
Without tackle Trevor Laws, who is now in the NFL, the defensive line could be even worse than they were last season, when they gave up nearly 200 yards a game on the ground. Linebackers John Ryan and Maurice Crum need to have big years if the defense is going to get a lot better.
Coach Charlie Weis has nine starters back from last year’s offense, including a couple of good skill guys. You know the guy is on track to get it turned around because he has a top five recruiting class each season. The talent will be there, but Irish fans are questioning whether Weis can coach or not.
Leading the way for the Irish offense will be quarterback Jimmy Clausen (1,254 yards passing, seven touchdowns, six interceptions), who almost certainly will be better this season than he was in 2007. Clausen has all the talent in the world—he just needs a little confidence and some time to throw the ball.
Clausen's biggest hurdle this season is going to be wiping out the memories of 2007. The kid played way before he was ready, and only time will tell if he can recover psychologically from the beating he took last season.
Clausen loses his top target, reliable tight end John Carlson, so he will likely rely on promising receiver Duval Kamara, who caught 32 passes and scored four touchdowns in 2007.
Running back is a position of mild concern, though Robert Hughes showed some promise late last season, rushing for 110 yards against Duke and 136 against Stanford. The offensive line, which was quite frankly horrible in 2007 (Clausen alone was sacked 34 times), will be anchored by right tackle Sam Young.
How Do You Beat Notre Dame?
You let Notre Dame self-destruct, and you punish them with Jake Locker all night. There's no way the Irish defense can deal with Locker at Husky Stadium. The Irish can't stop the run, and the defense will still be weak this season. UW just needs to hammer it all day to pick up its first W in the series.
What Do I Think?
I think Notre Dame will be one of the weakest teams we play all year. The Irish are down, and they were much worse than us last year.
I am not buying the Jimmy Clausen hype—I will take Jake Locker and our defense any day over this squad. The Irish have a lot of young talent, but until they get a year's experience under their belts, they will still struggle in 2008.
So Husky and Irish fans, that's right—I am predicting a Washington win over Notre Dame, which means the Huskies win two out of three non-conference games in 2008.
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2 months ago
Let Jake Locker run the ball? Is that it?
2 months ago
Is this a joke?
2 months ago
What a ridiculously slanted garbage-fest of an "article". Putting aside the factual errors (John Ryan isn't a linebacker), it's just too unbalanced and unmeasured to be taken seriously.
"LIKE WASHINGTON, the strength of the team is in the last two recruiting classes..."
Your 2007 recruiting class was terrible.
"I will take Jake Locker and OUR DEFENSE..."
Your defense was a joke last year, and you lost two 5th year seniors and 4 year starter off the d-line. Savannah won't be able to practice at all before the season starts. Good luck.
"...you punish them with Jake Locker all night."
That's assuming he's still healthy. Despite what you think, your skill-position talent sans-Locker is both sub-par and inexperienced; a legion of two and three star studs. No more Reece and Russo. No more 1,300 back that single-handedly won about 3 games last year with 200+ yard efforts. Locker will be a one-man team, and will be pounded on as such. He'll be lucky to still be on the field by the time the ND game rolls around.
You're in for a very rude awakening this Fall. Oh yeah, and you have zero commitments so far.
2 months ago
I dunno. That seams to be the only analysis of the Husky team. But I live in Seattle and that's the only positive I can think of as well.
2 months ago
"The Irish have a lot of young talent, but until they get a year's experience under their belts, they will still struggle in 2008.
What did they do in 2007 with all that young talent?
I don't believe it's a foregone conclusion that Notre Dame will beat Washington but there is a lot of evidence to suggest they will, none of which you include here.
It is irresponsible to argue a point and include only the positives. You have to consider everything.
If you think Washington will be able to run the ball and that Notre Dame can't stop the run, so be it. But back it up with credible evidence. Personally, I like the front seven for Notre Dame in this game. Washington's projected starting offensive line vastly out-weighs them and I think that plays into the hand of the smaller, quicker defensive front for the Irish.
2 months ago
JB:
Defend yourself, man!
2 months ago
Just to let you know: John Ryan isn't even a starter, let alone a linebacker.
"The Irish have a lot of young talent, but until they get a year's experience under their belts, they will still struggle in 2008"... so what did that young team do last year? Freshmen allotted more playing time last year than ever before in the history of Notre Dame football. This team learned tough, but they learned.
Frankly, I think Washington is probably one of the ten worst teams in all of Division IA football and Notre Dame should roll through them just like two years ago. You can't legitimately tell me that Washington has gotten better in the last two years.
2 months ago
"Irish fans are nn longer enamored with Weis... and Weis is on the hot seat. " I see no evidence to support such a statement so it appears you are full of wishful thinking. Thanks for the information that PAC 10 refs were willing to take a bribe. Silly me thought they were just biased.
2 months ago
I will not bother reiterating the comments already made on an article that was written on a computer that apparently has no Google or any way of finding out that if anything your saying is right. Your recruiting under Ty Willy has been embarassing. Your own fans are calling for his head. CW has had no such death threats. No one in Washington is pleased with how he is doing.
As far as Locker goes, if you have one strength, which is all you have, it will be exposed. "Don't get it twisted, he ain't Vince Young." (thanks Mikey V - Sports Inferno).
UW is a team, with an awful coach, who has yet to make any improvements in any key position. Recruiting fundamentals 101 - When you have a star player at a position in his junior or senior year, RECRUIT! Somebody tell me who Ty Willy is bringing in. HE HAS NO COMMITMENTS!! Charlie Weis, if nothing else, has 13 players already for 2009! Lionel Tyrone is the worst recruiter ever to live. I am getting angry at the implication that Ty Willy is a decent coach. He is god awful. He has a terrible work ethic, but I'll be darned if he hasn't dropped his golf handicap this summer yet. He came in ND and won games and there was a facade that he didn't suck. He was exposed. All of a sudden, ND fans across the country realized 'wait a minute, what about next year?'.
Zibby and Stovall were atrocious under Ty. He made 18 year old Brady Quinn, as a true frosh, throw the ball 56 times in his first game, the poor kid couldn't lift up a pen the next day! Weis took the EXACT SAME PLAYERS that won 5 games and won the same amount in his first 6, with a OT loss to MSU. Then, he played the most memorable CFB ever played against arguably the most talented team this millenium, the 2005 USC Trojans.
Now, he took the leftovers of Ty (7 players) and plugged in his 18-19 y/o kids, and did what he could, and let them get their jerseys dirty. It turned out ugly, as ugly as could be, but these kids have had the worst of the worst, do you think UW's sub-par team can do something to these kids that hasn't happened yet.
There you go, ND fans, motive alone will let us beat Ty.
from 2 months ago
IRISHsubway
Yeah the difference between Vince Young and Locker is that Young is in the NFL??(thanks Joe Obvious)
ND is a team, with an awful coach, who has yet to make any improvements in any key position(see rapid decline of ND to unprecedented levels). Somebody tell me who Charlie Weisy is bringing in that can actually beat out a Ty Willy recruit(see last years Ty Willy recruits still at top of depth chart everywhere!). CHARLIE HAS NO COMMITMENTS THAT HAVE MADE ANY REAL SIGNIFICANT IMPACT!! Charlie Weiss is the worst developer of ***** talent to ever live. I am getting angry at the implication by Charlie Weiss that he's a genius. He's embarrassing. He has a terrible work ethic(see weight problem and ND players efforts rapid decline). Charlie came to ND and won games and there was a facade that he didn't suck. He was exposed.
Charlie made 18 year old Claussen, as a true fresh, start in games when he clearly wasn't ready with an OL that couldn't protect......the poor kid couldn't lift his leg into a White Stretch Hummer the next day! Weiss took TY WILLY'S PLAYERS AND BENEFITTED FROM THEIR EXTRA YEAR OF EXPERIENCE.....then Ty Willy's recruits were infused with Charlie Weisy's overrated recruits and then, he has coached them to the most memorable CFB embarrassments ever played throughout a full season this millenium.
2 months ago
Ok dude, you need to get your facts right as well, no one in Washington has had a problem with the recruiting Ty has done, consistently we have been updating the talent at all of the positions. Some of the boosters and the fans are just pissed because we aren't winning fast enough for their taste. And as for how good your talent has been compared to ours in the last 2 recruiting classes, we still won more games last year than you did, with the last 2 years of recruits. So....lets just wait until the game is played.
from 2 months ago
You didn't play nine bowl teams last year, but thanks for playing.
2 months ago
First off, recruiting is over-rated.... skip to third if need be.
Second, UW's 2007 incoming class was respectable. Not terrible
Third, let's look at the numbers.... ND's class ranked 6.5 the last two years. They finished 3-9 in 2007
UW's class ranked 21.5 last two years. They finished 4-9 in 2007
Fourth, both are bad teams. But we get to see who's worse this year... Fun!
2 months ago
Recruiting is over rated? Tell that to USC(recent recruiting greatness) or Duke (recent recruiting failures).
Personnel does not matter?
No matter what your line of work or walk of life, you need talented people to succeed. Companies do not succeed without visionary people and 7-11 does not succeed if they do not have an accomplished Slurpee machine loader.
You need players to win, you need talent to succeed.
Saying recruiting does not matter demonstrates a fundamental error your the understanding of college football.
2 months ago
I have just read a game analysis by a Husky football fan, which covers nothing about his team. 98% of the article talks about ND team issues (mostly perceived weakness). As a fan who follows ND football on a daily, I find Mr Berkowitz analysis woefully lacking. It equates to me writing an article about Washington football after researching them for about two hours. If your are a Husky fan please tell me why you will beat ND not why ND is so bad they will lose to you.
2 months ago
rev jenkins ,notre dames president is paying major money to both ty and the ''big burrito'' charlie weis in the THRILLA IN SEATTLE '' -imagine a first paying money to a fool and a fraud on either side of the field -- if weis is blown out ad jack shoud fire ''NO EXCUSES '' -- LAST YEAR STRASIGHT OUT OF HIS GLUTTONY MALPRACTICE TRIAL HE ANNOUNCED AS TO --THE TRUTH OVER THE STARTING QB---------''MAY GOD STRIKE ME DEAD ''--THIS YEAR STRAIGHT FROM QUATAR WITH THE AMERICAN FLAG DRAPED AROUND THE CHEESEBURGER KING AND NO DYING KIDS AS A MAUDLIN PROP TO START THE FIRST PLAY AS 2 YEARS AGO - THE BLODDLUST FACTOR TO SEE BOTH TY AND CHARLIE FIRED EXCEEDS A MICHAEL VICK ''PIT BULL FIGHT''---------PLEASE ABC - PUT A MIKE ON CHARLIE WE DESERVE TO HEAR TY CURSE HIM OUT FOR HIS LIES AND BS AS TO WHY NOTRE DAME WAS DISGRACED LAST YEAR -------------NOTRE DANE FIRED TY AFTER THREE SEASONS AS INCOMPETENT --------------------WEIS DID WORSE AND REMAINS -WHY ?? A BLOW OUT BY TY ON NATIONAL TV IS JUST -IF IT HAPPEBNS AND NOTRE DAME LOSES BY 1 POINT OR 36 AD JACK SHOLD FIRE BIG AND LITTLE CHARLIE IN SEATTLE AND LET TENUTA TAKE OVER AS HEAD NOTRE DAME COACH
from 2 months ago
Thanks for writing, please retake third grade and try again.
Points in which you were wrong:
Notre Dame is no longer paying Willingham.
I don't see how his lawsuit has to do with football.
Your next section is about as readable as the language of Swahili.
The short hand term for a microphone is "mic" and I don't know what lies you're talking about.
Ty never went to a BCS game, Charlie went to two.
Ty's offense was stagnant at best, Charlie broke records (with Ty's Brady Quinn).
Speaking of Brady Quinn, Ty didn't offer him until Ndukwe told him to.
Weis has done much better than Ty. One bad year doesn't make you a bad coach. Two and a half bad years with no sign of improvement does.
2 months ago
The fact that any Huskie fan would be happy with what Tyrone has done for the program (more like hasn't done) is absolutely hilarious!
This dude is a program destroyer, and you will all see the fruits of Tyrone's labor in a couple of years.
And then you, like Notre Dame fans, will still be cursing his name long after he has been fired by the school.
I wonder then how many morons will be screaming racism again.
Oh wait, Tyrone was the one screaming racism to begin with.
Wake up Ian and quit defending this dude.
It's alright to have a blind allegiance for the school, but coaches come and go all the time.
You look like a young kid, so I'll just chalk your comments up to inexperience.
And Darwin, this comment is one of the most uneducated ones I've seen a while:
"ND is a team, with an awful coach, who has yet to make any improvements in any key position(see rapid decline of ND to unprecedented levels). Somebody tell me who Charlie Weisy is bringing in that can actually beat out a Ty Willy recruit(see last years Ty Willy recruits still at top of depth chart everywhere!).
Priceless dude, that is some good stuff there. Of course a senior will probably get a starting nod over a freshman or sophomore, few high school kids are ready to make an immediate impact in big-time college football.
Putting aside the last 3 years, it's really hard for me to compare any of Tyrone's recruits to Charlie's this year, BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE ONE SINGLE COMMIT YET!!!
LMAO!
1 of only 6 Division 1 schools with no commits and the only school hailing from a major conference.
What a joke!
As for the article, ND is going to destroy UW.
from 2 months ago
Ohhh IrishChrissy your disparaging comments about me won't deflect the reality that if your genius coaches 10 star recruits are so good and Ty Willingham is so inept, it wouldn't be asking much to have a key recruit progress a little faster than normal and launch up the depth charts AFTER 2+ YEARS.....but it didn't happen as average guys like Vernaglia, Sharpley, Lambert, Wooden, Brown, etc. kept finding ways to start. That's a red flag for your embarrassing coach and this bozo doesn't need anymore red flags because he already has enough red flags with his lack of game plan coaching.....inability to lead, motivate, develop talent, etc..
And it's tough for me to compare any of Tyrone's recruits to Dopey's, BECAUSE GENIUS IS HAVING A HARD TIME KEEPING HIS 10 star recruits(see mass exodus of recruits leaving program....another red flag IRISH CHRISSY:))LMAO
Last year your Charlie Weiss led team hit unprecedented levels of ineptness on offense and in the won/loss column.....WHAT A JOKE!
As for the article, ND can't destroy anybody anymore
2 months ago
You should be banned for writting the worst article I have ever read on this site. Where did you get your information? Which ND fans gave you insight into their opinions on the team or Weis.
ND fans do not question whether Weis can coach. The guy accomplished alot in the NFL. one of two current NCAA coaches to lead their team to 2 BCS games in 3 years, won coach of year honors. Only the people who do not follow ND on day to day basis or national media make up things like your article.
Isnt the point of this site to have actual fans write articles? People who are more knowldegeable about their teams than writers who dont follow the team? If thats the case, what is a garbage article like this being posted for. I dont dislike the article because someone doesnt believe in ND, I hate it because it lakes any research, knowledge of the game, or any knowledge of ND. Glad you like your team, but you know nothing of the ND team.
Im sure your either laughing because you think your article is funny or else your just not responding to comments because you realize your attempt to become a journalist was just shattered.
2 months ago
When I wrote the article I expected this reaction from some of the Notre Dame fans. What can I say, I call it like I see it, and I think Notre Dame, Stanford, and Washington State are the weakest teams Washington plays this year.
I pick Washington because they simply have the ability to put up a lot of points on Notre Dame. On the flip side I don't see the Notre Dame offense being able to keep up. It isn't so much an improved UW defense, it is simply lack of faith in the Irish offense. I watched almost every ND game last year, and was just surprised by how bad they were. I know they will improve in 2008, but they have a lot of work to do to catch UW who actually had a good enough offense to win last year if there defense hadn't have been so horrible.
Another item is this preview was written about Notre Dame, not Washington per se, so if you want to read about what I think about the 2008 Washington Huskies visit the blog at http://uwfootball.blogspot.com/ and you will be able to find quite a bit of balanced information in articles written over the past six weeks. Think of this article as part of a continuing series that has been going on for six weeks. this is just the Notre Dame chapter. When it shows up unattached on Bleacher Report I can understand how it may not stand completely on it's own.
As far as Notre Dame in 2008 goes I haven't really read anything different out there in the national media that says anything different than what I am saying. Most people think that a 6-6 finish is possible, but the best years of this program are ahead of them.
I read some interesting posts here regarding the recruiting of Weis, and he has had nothing but extremely highly ranked classes since he arrived at Notre Dame. Recruiting hype however is very subjective, and you really can't figure out how a class will pan out for 3-4 years. Take Tom Lemming for example, everyone knows he is a ND homer who over rates every player ND recruits. Add an extra star, deserved, or undeserved for every player ND recruits.
Rick Neuhesiel had some very highly ranked classes at Washington, and in retrospect it meant nothing because his later classes simply didn't pan out and perform to expectations for various reasons. The current 5th year seniors at Washington were recruited by Neuheisel, and signed by Gilbertson. That class was highly rated and for most intents and purposes it has been a bust. Let me give you another example, Paul Hackett's tenure at USC, you Irish fans remember him? He had highly ranked classes that lacked balance, didn't perform, and he lost his job.
Weis has recruited well on paper, but he has to prove he can win with his own athletes. Remember he did quite well with the kids he inherited, and not so good with his own guys last year. Whose fault was it that he didn't have a QB ready to go after Brady Quinn?
Recruiting is much more than rankings from Scout/Rivals. It has to do with evaluation, and picking the right type of players to fit your system. That is why a team like Boise State went undefeated a couple of years ago and whipped Oklahoma in a BCS bowl game. How many of those BSU players were recruited by the Pac Ten?
As far as this years game goes Washington is going to run all over Notre Dame in Husky Stadium. UW has an impressive veteran offensive line, and that line is deep, and experienced. The Huskies also have one of the best fullbaks in the nation in Paul Homer, this kid is devastating blocker. The skill players are unproven, but they are expremely talented. RB/WR Chris Polk is being called the next Reggie Bush, and RB Brandon Johnson is a very good inside type of runner who racked up 100 yards in the second half against Cal last year when Rankin was sidelined by an injury. UW is also rolling out a couple of TE's who will play for the first time in 2008 who were rated among the very best in the country coming out of HS. Remember this name, Kavario Middleton, the kid is an animal, and he should be seasoned to make an impact by the time the Irish roll into town.
Let's talk about Jake Locker for a second, this kid is for real and is built like an absolute horse. He is incredibly mobile. His accuracy, and general comfort running the offense has dramatically improved since last Fall. When running the ball he hits like a linebacker, and his speed would allow him to start at RB for most BCS teams. You can't control him, you can only hope to contain him. Wit the added touch and accuracy he is going to be load to handle for any team he plays against. Locker is one of those rare players who can take over a game, and raise the level of everyone around him.
Finally lets talk about the Husky defense. Do you Irish fans remember a guy named Kent Baer? Were you impressed buy him at all? Probably not, and at Washington he was villifed by not only the fans, but by former players, and coaches. He was simply a bad fit who also lacked the depth and talent to compete in the Pac Ten.
The new DC is former Falcon DC Ed Donatell, and he represents a significant upgrade. He is also arriving at the right time because for the first time since Willingham has arrived UW has depth and talent in the defensive backfield. UW also has one of the better linebacking groups in the conference. The Huskies are solid at DE, and Daniel Teo Nesheim has the potential to leave early for the draft and be first team All Pac Ten. Washington like almost every team in the Pac Ten is rebuilding on the interior, and if you want to pick an Achilles heal for the defense it will be here unless a couple if highly touted recruits can play right away.
Well I hope this answers all your questions about why I think Washington will beat Notre Dame in 2008.
I don't mind the criticism, and expect from ND fans. Only a few days ago I wrote an article that predicted a close UW win over BYU and Cougar fans praised it's accuracy.
2 months ago
I'm not blindly supporting the guy, I felt he needed to go if there weren't changes to his staff and what not. I mean, you blindly attack the guy like its nobodies business, say what you will about me, I want him to succeed. Maybe I am a young inexperienced kid like you say Irish Chris, but as far as I'm concerned Notre Dame fans are no better than a bunch of thugs. In all the comments I ever see and when I was around a bunch of the fans when Notre Dame beat us in Seattle in 2005, there are a couple things you ALWAYS hang onto, no matter what. One, that Tyrone Willingham is the anti-christ, and two that your name gives you some god given right to rule college football. I honestly couldn't care less about your tradition, Washington has a great tradition too, as do countless programs. Just because you are SUPPOSED to be good, doesn't mean you always will. You can cast blame all over the place, and sometimes you are right, but seriously, it borders on ridiculous. Talk about blindly following a team....
2 months ago
John... this post is better and more informative than the original article.
2 months ago
Ian, that makes us elitists not thugs. Ohio State fans are thugs.
John, I have no problem with you picking Washington over Notre Dame, you just refuse to back up your statement. You were wrong on so many of your points that its hard to take your prediction seriously.
I"m ok with you saying that Notre Dame's offense has a lot to prove, but what makes you think that Washington's offense will score so many points?
2 months ago
John-
Word of advice. When you speak poorly of ND, be prepared for myopic-minded, rose-colored glasses' views of their team. It's just their nature. They defend no matter what. You have to respect that loyalty, whether it is due to passion or guilt.
I like Jake Locker, think he's a terrific QB, and ND may have problems with him.
As far as comparisons of Ty v Charlie, ND fans, give me a break! Recruiting out of Washington is a bit different than recruiting out of South Bend.
ND is a hot-bed for Catholic private schools, and some kids were born to play there if they can make the grade. To say Charlie is a better recruiter than Ty is like saying Pete Carroll is a better recruiter than any MAC coach.
It has nothing to do with the coach, it has to do with the team and its past history. ND has a huge history and a legendary past. Washington does not.
from 2 months ago
Lisa,
If what you say is true, then why did Willingham have such a problem attracting talent in both quality and quantity during his tenure at Notre Dame? If it's so easy to recruit there why didn't he deliver excellent results year in and year out?
I'll conced that Scout and Rivals aren't perfect. I'll also concede that there are biases in the ranking systems. Furthermore, I believe it is nearly impossible to accurately predict how a high school football player will perform at the next level. It's the same predicament NFL GM's run into every year with the draft. Many times a player is just a better athlete than his peers, but not necessarily a better football player. Every time you jump a level football acumen becomes more and more important. But that doesn't exclude the fact that the majority of first round draft choices are four and five star rated players by the recruiting services.
There is ample evidence to support the fact that Weis is a better recruiter than Willingham. It really shouldn't even be argued. If the recruiting isn't paying dividends on the field then Weis and his staff aren't doing their job turing talent and athleticism into football players. There is supporting and refuting evidence regarding this point. On the one hand Weis took players Willingham couldn't win with in 2004 and turned them into a very successful product in 2005. On the other hand, in 2007 Weis fielded a team incredibly inept. But this argument is separate and distinct from that of recruiting.
from 2 months ago
Lisa,
Please look at these ND recruiting rankings, courtesy of Rivals:
2003: 12
2004: 32
2006: 8
2007: 8
2008: 2
The first two were 100% Willingham's classes (avg: 22nd), and the last three were 100% Weis's (avg: 6). I've left out the 2002 class, since that was part Davie/Willingham, and the 2005 class, since that was part Willingham/Weis.
And, even though UW may not have the recruiting cache that ND does, there's no excuse for the Huskies to be the only BCS school without a single commitment, as they are right now. Willingham has been noted as a lazy recruiter wherever he's gone.
You might not be particularly fond of Notre Dame -- that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, though it'd be nice if you didn't show up in almost every ND-related article on this site to lend your derogatory two cents -- but please be fair.
from 2 months ago
Lisa,
Not an intelligent post, honey. PC is the prime example. SC has been winning championships for decades but faultered in recruiting AND performance prior to PC's regime establishing itself. SC's history of FB excellence was already established prior to PC coming in yet they were a 500 ball team for three seasons. Then PC brings in 4 consecutive top two classes and v - i - o - l - a!
See ya.
from 2 months ago
Lisa,
Not an intelligent post, honey. PC is the prime example. SC has been winning championships for decades but faultered in recruiting AND performance prior to PC's regime establishing itself. SC's history of FB excellence was already established prior to PC coming in yet they were a 500 ball team for three seasons. Then PC brings in 4 consecutive top two classes and v - i - o - l - a!
See ya.
from 2 months ago
A whole lot of us from ND know our football. Typlifying our intentions with negative generalizations is disrespectful at best.
Comparing recruiting at Seattle v. Notre Dame is not the point. That's comparing apples v. oranges. How did both coaches do at Notre Dame? "The hot-bed for Catholic private schools" dried up as Willingham's tenure lengthened. Has Carroll been a better recruiter than Hackett?
Many of the same reporters who would write Notre Dame had become irrelevant were the same who bemoaned the firing of Willingham. If you were not in this group, feel free to express yourself. Did they want ND to remain that way?
Remember Nick Saban's comment on Weis's hiring? "They (ND) finally got themselves a football coach."
Wasn't Paul Hackett fired under the same circumstances - a record with 6-6 and 5-7 in his last two seasons at USC and poor recruiting? Ty did win two more games his first season than Hackett, so Ty's overall record is slightly better than Hackett's.
I'm not sure what offense Willingham ran but it was not the West Coast offense as Montana understood it. As you noted below, perhaps West Coast style of offense - or whatever - is a good term.
My criteria for a good coach is installing an entirely new offense with the same players and qualifying for a BCS bowl the first year, and second. What's yours?
from 2 months ago
I don't know Lisa. I think your a west coast girl but I don't know how old you are.
Don James dominated the Pac10 for years starting in the 70's.
They've had great success in the and 80's and early 90's and were a premier program on the west coast,
back when usc was taking their dirt nap.
They had a pipeline to great southern pacific talent and should still be able too recruit incredibly.
UW should own the northwest and should still be able to get southwest talent.
They haven't been the same since Neuheisel and it's a bit of a shame.
I would love to see them great again, just to have someone give usc a wooping once in a while.
The problem is not, as you say, because ND has history and UW does not.
That's a convenient excuse Lisa.
Are you a Tyrone apologist too?
The problem is because Ty has the work ethic of a 13 year old.
The guy hits the the golf course everyday. Rain, shine, or practice, that's where you can find that guy.
He's not a bad coach. He's more of a raa-raa guy, but nothing as bad as petey the poodle.
He just isn't the leader that a proud program like the Huskys deserve.
He will never build that team up to where it should be.
2 months ago
Paul Homer, one of the best fullbacks in the nation. Chris Polk the next Reggie Bush. Jake Locker, The next Peyton Manning, only better and much, much faster. Back-ups who pile-up 100 yards in a half against Cal. Well, with a core like that, and guys from the defense ready to leave early for the NFL, why not go all-in and call it a 100-0 routing. The atrocious Pac-10 officials should even help the cause guys.
Ian, seriously, thugs? Come on pumpkin, I can almost hearing you whining about "I don't care about your tradition, we have a good one too." You're really gonna be whining when Ty decides his handicap is needs more improvement and your cupboards become completely bare. And you haven't seen anything yet Darwin as far as player development until you've seen Ty take a 5-star (that is if he could actually get one) and turn him into the guy grabbing the tee after kickoffs.
Tenuta's gonna have Ty crying by halftime.
2 months ago
I respect Ty and Washington, which has a great history and is committed to its players academically. I would have liked to see how you matched up the teams - offense v. defense. Locker and Clausen get the hype, but how do you see the game played out? What will each try to do against the other?
One factor that I think will be significant this year for the Irish will be the addition of John Tenuta to the defense with a more attacking, pressure defense. How will coaching changes affect each of the teams and the game?
Thanks.
2 months ago
Sigh, yes you are right, you are elitist, still don't understand why that is any better, but ok...
I agree with Lisa though, what recruits are willing to go to either school is completely different. Again, I'm going to get ripped a new one for supporting the anti-christ, but I really do honestly believe that our talent pool has greatly improved since Tyrone came in. We were 1-10 in 2004 and 2-9 in 2005, we really did not have anything going for us after Keith Gilbertson. I will admit though, for as good as Tyrone is as a program coach, he's fairly mediocre at best on game-days. Ken Baer was pathetic as a DC so I'm excited for Ed Donatell to come in and shake things up. Our offense showed last season it could put points on the board, so I think an improved defense will do nothing if not help our chances this season.
from 2 months ago
Ian...I agree the talent pool has gotten better. \
And I think if ND posts 8 wins this season that's progress.
The question is, is it really progress or the product of a weak schedule? In either case, if I were an ND fan, I would take the nine wins and hope the next year shows marked improvement.
2 months ago
Lisa... did you forget that TY also failed as a recruiter in South Bend too. Get your head out of the sand
from 2 months ago
Does everyone forget that Ty Willy in his seven seasons (1995-2001) as coach at STANFORD led the Cardinal to a 44-36-1 record, a Pac-10 conference championship and four bowl game appearances, including the 2000 Rose Bowl. He couldn't have been recruiting that bad then, and Stanford is a WAY more difficult place to recruit at then ND or UDub.
2 months ago
Lisa - When I read what I wrote I had to cringe because I knew what was coming. It doesn't really bother me because it is the nature of the beast. By the way when it comes to history nothing compares to Notre Dame, but Washington actually has a lot of history and tradition, and we are one of the top twenty football programs winning percentage wise of all time. We have been down since 2001, and this has been the worst run in our history, but we will compete for a BCS berth before Locker leaves campus. All that being said recruiting at Notre Dame is a lot easier than recruiting at Washington.
Irish Fans- A note on Tyrone
Tyrone isn't very popular in Seattle. I think we all agree the guy is a good, and decent man, but he has proven to be a very average football coach. He also does a poor job promoting the program, relating to the media, and most importantly developing relationships with fans, alumni, and boosters. He doesn't seem to have much of a sense of urgency, while last years recruiting class was very good, the 2007 one was acceptable, his second below average with the exception of Locker, and his first was a complete disaster, and one reason was he decided to wait till after Christmas to hit the road.
Ty is extremely loyal to the coaches that work for him, and that has been a problem at ND, and UW. all he had to do at ND was fire some coaches to keep his job, he didn't, and he was fired. He had the same type of ultimatum last year at UW and decided to make changes.
Ty also does some thing right. He runs a clean program, garduates his players, and keeps them out of the police blotter. While the lack of wins have not satified the Husky faithful the team has improved every year since he took over. Washington was a much bigger rebuilding job than most, including Willingham realized, in fact I predicted it would take any coach five years to do it after the Neuhesiel/Gilbertson disaster.
Close But No Cigar
Arizona, Hawaii, WSU, UCLA, and Oregon State were all games that were very winnable for UW in 2007 but slipped away in the last series of the 4th quarter. You can put USC in the same category as that game went down to the last tick of the clock for the second consecutive year. The Huskies also kept pace with Oregon putting up 34 points on the Ducks before fading in the last half of the fourth quarter. UW also was very competitive with Ohio State before mistakes turned the game around late in the third quarter.
Why did they lose so many close games? I would have to say coaching, and defense. The staff made terrible second half adjustments. It was obvious that Ty had to make changes to his staff because they were simply being outcoached even though they were competitive in every single game.
Was Notre Dame even close to being competitive in 2007?
The Washington Offense
The Huskies scored almost 30 points per game last year against the toughest schedule in the country. Most expect them to do as well or better in 2008. Once again I don't see the Irish keeping pace on offense, or having a defense that will even things out for their offense.
from 2 months ago
"Ty is extremely loyal to the coaches that work for him, and that has been a problem at ND, and UW. all he had to do at ND was fire some coaches to keep his job, he didn't, and he was fired."
Credit to you for recognizing this. In the aftermath of TW's firing in 2004, and the ensuing media bloodbath, not a single member of the mainstream press was willing to acknowledge that if he'd fired either Diedrick or Baer (he probably didn't have to fire both), he'd have kept his job. He stubbornly retained both, saw the writing on the wall and started fishing around for other opportunities, and was fired. Hardly unfair.
Your subsequent responses, a few sporadic pieces of unrestrained fandom aside (see: "You can't control him, you can only hope to contain him."), have been far more measured than your first article. I still think that you're underestimating the impact of losing Rankin and your top 5 receivers, but I can't fault you too much -- you're a fan.
We'll just have to see what happens in October.
from 2 months ago
John,
I'll be honest, I don't know a ton about Washington's football team.
However, substantiating good offensive production for 2008 using the offense's performance in 2007 is irrelevant if you don't also acknowledge the changes in personnel, coaches, and scheme.
Prior to last season I could have said Notre Dame should score a ton of points because they did in 2006 (and 2005 for that matter). Without acknowledging the loss of the top two receivers, a four year starter at quarterback, a running back, and three offensive linemen, there would have been no way to predict the Irish offensive meltdown in 2007. Ditto for Michigan this year versus last.
I'm not entirely certain but I thought Washington didn't return all that many on offense. It is important not to under-estimate this change if it true, particularly on the offensive line.
2 months ago
Anthony....Ty Willingham was changing ND's offensive schemes. If you want to see what happens when you change a system with quality players, watch Michigan. They have enormous talent, but aren't recruited for a spread offense. They will do horribly this year. It's what happened to Ty.
Ty changed to a WCO-style offense. It takes a couple of years for the right players to get down their timing routes down to a precise science. Weis had the benefit of having Quinn, Jeff S and others who finally could flourish once some more players who fit that system felt comfortable in that system.
So while Weis gets credit succeeding in a system Ty started, Ty doesn't get that same benefit. He inherited players that didn't fit his system. That's all there is to it.
from 2 months ago
Lisa,
There is a lot of truth in what you said regarding the challenges Ty faced when he arrived in South Bend, particularly your point about Notre Dame's offensive development under Willingham. While I don't think all personnel are as critical to installing a new offense like the West Coast, quarterback is, and the Irish just didn't have a lot of options that fit that system when Willingham arrived on campus.
On some points, however, I disagree.
First, Michigan has been running a spread offense for quite some time now. I think people confuse the spread with Rodriguez's zone read and Florida's gimmicky offense. The spread is just about spreading the field with multiple receivers. Texas Tech runs the spread. Just because an offense doesn't feature a running, option quarterback doesn't mean it isn't the spread. Rodriguez ran the spread at Tulane as well, but Sean King wasn't a featured running quarterback. The biggest challenge Michigan will face this year is finding a quarterback that fits into that system and evolving their offensive line to be more athletic to effectively execute the zone blocking schemes Rodriguez loves. But Michigan's problems don't stop there. They lost four year starters at quarterback and running back, a couple of receivers, and four offensive linemen, including the first pick in the draft.
Second, while I agree that it takes a few years to get personnel to mold into the system being implemented, Jeff Samardzija wasn't even on the three deep at wide receiver the year before Weis arrived at Notre Dame and Brady Quinn was a virtual unknown. Both had break-out years in 2005, a complete turnaround from the previous season. The same can be said for Maurice Stovall and Anthony Fasano in 2005, and Rhema McKnight and John Carlson in 2006. One additional year of playing football doesn't take you from mediocre to extremely productive.
Third, Weis doesn't run the same style of offense that Willingham did. While it may take similar personnel, there was still a steep learning curve for the players to learn Weis' new scheme. I wouldn't exactly qualify that as "Weis succeeding in a system that Ty started." Weis did benefit from having a more pro-style quarterback in Brady Quinn but Willingham didn't even really recruit him to begin with. In fact, if anything, Weis brought an offense to South Bend that was more complicated that what Willingham was running. Was the West Coast offense more modern than what Davie was running? Probably, but only in the sense that it was a more sophisticated passing offense. The difference between what Weis runs now and Bill Diedrich ran under Willingham is substantial.
Fourth, Notre Dame did fine in Willingham's first year with an inept offense. The defense and special teams played well (with Davie's players) despite the offensive shortcomings to produce a good year. It was the two subsequent years that were failures. Willingham didn't win the games he was supposed to. Take 2004 for example, there is no reason for the Irish to get blown out by Syracuse that year.
from 2 months ago
Excellent points, Anthony.
Lisa,
"So while Weis gets credit succeeding in a system Ty started, Ty doesn't get that same benefit. He inherited players that didn't fit his system. That's all there is to it."
Weis installed a totally new offense prior to 2005 which he took from the Patriots - and did not use a "system Ty started", which was appropriately junked.
Though loyal to his coaches while at ND, Willingham did not even take his offensive coordinator from Notre Dame to Washington. He did take other coaches.
2 months ago
Lisa - You are very good, that was an excellent comment, and most importantly it hit the nail squarely on the head. It takes 4-5 years to change over a complete system.
2 months ago
Who are you trying to stir?
2 months ago
when weis gets outcoached by ty in seattle - watch if charlie does a reduex of the usc game and takes little charlie into the huskie locker room and apolgizesto ty for trashing him for four years as an excuse for weis inability to coach at notre dame
from 2 months ago
When Ty gets outcoached in Seattle - watch if he finally comes clean that he was wrong for not admitting that race had nothing do with his firing at ND and that it was completely about his ineptitude and resigns from UW immediately. :-)
2 months ago
as a ND fan I hope TY willy stays at UW for th enext ten years,,,hes awesome...just give him a chance husky fans...dont be racist like us....I guess well just settle for gat charlie as you guys call him and his many deficiencies...oh well.....well take it ..I guess:)
2 months ago
I took this article for what it was, printed it out, and now my cat is using it at the bottom of her litter box; anyone dumb enough to think this "sportswriter" is even remotely close to the truth with this is as idiotic as the moron residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, and pretty much as out of touch with reality too. Willingham couldn't coach at Notre Dame, couldn't recruit at Notre Dame, and Washington hasn't done diddly squat with Willingham there.
2 months ago
hahahahaha what are you smoking.someone should report that as offensive there is no way.plus washington isnt even close to pulling in the type of players ND has.The irish will destroy the huskies,jake locker is good but he has nothing else. sorry but washington is not that good
2 months ago
friday 25 july - 500pm pst----------ESPN SPORTS -COLLEGE FOOTBALL -------THE GOSPEL FROM CARDINAL MARK MAY HEY CHARLIE DID YOU WATCH YOUR OBITUARY FOR 2008 BEHIND 3 CLOSED DOORS?''-------------'' NOTRE DAME WILL BE 6 AND 6 IN 2008--------BE HAPPY WITH THAT IRISH FANS ''-------------------------
2 months ago
No disparaging remarks about you DUHrwin, just about your silly comment.
And you do realize that Charlie has only two classes in school, right?
Like I said in my previous post, and I don't know why I'm repeating myself, It's not going to be that easy for freshmen and sophomores to see the field over 4th and 5th year seniors.
It doesn't work that way for most programs or most players for that matter.
Of course their are exceptions, but I deal in reality.
The 2005 team had a lot of talent still, and a horrible recruiting class to complement it.
In 2006, Charlie had his first class in, and it was a beauty, but they were still just freshmen.
Fast forward to last year and combine all of the talent (underclassmen) with a team almost completely void of any premier upperclassmen talent (and leadership).
Again, thanks Tyrone.
That's something all you UDub fans will be saying a lot the next few years, but that's another story.
Hell, you can't even get a new AD because no intelligent man (or woman) wants to have Tyrone's blood on their hands when they fire him.
Again, that's another story.
I don't know what you want me to do though.
Maybe wave a magic wand over the players and instantly develop them?
It doesn't quite work that way.
Sorry.
Of course Charlie and the crew didn't do the best job in developing them last year, but things were much different this spring.
So if you want to compare talent, than compare talent dude. Don't worry about the kids that left, worry about those that are still their.
The comparison is, well, laughable.
What's even funnier is the fact that the kids who have left ND were better than the kids your program still has!
And as for the kids who left, they were some great talents that simply weren't going to see much playtime.
Go ahead, name a transfer and I'll tell you how far they were down the depth chart.
It can be like a game!
I like how you end your comment, not by telling me that theirs no way the Irish will beat UW, but rather that they can't destroy anybody anymore.
Where's your faith lad?
I wouldn't be too confident either.
No Reece, no Russo.
Just Locker and a plethora of 2 and 3 star talent.
from 2 months ago
Your first 4 or so sentences are just full of riveting stuff??? Despite all your weak excuses Weis's late '05 signees and '06's couldn't keep guys like Vernaglia and Sharpley, with their virtual zero accumulated career stats, off the 2007 starting charts week in and week out. And it was Weis's beautifully inept '06 QB recruiting that led to Sharpley having to start.....so Weis can take credit for Claussen's freshman disaster season because he didn't have any '06 QB's to either win the job outright or replace Claussen:) Which leads me to my point about Weis.........it doesn't say much for his recruiting skills when his evaluations of his QB's(Frazer and Jones) fails so miserably....times two!!!!and at such a critical position!
Too funny you label your Weis '06 recruiting class as a beauty??????considering the MASS EXODUS of highly ranked players(Reuland, Jones, Frazer, Carufel, Walls) and so few true stars that have really stood out between the lines of play in the year under Weis's Genius eye........which is important Irish Chrissy when labeling your class as a thing of beauty, you know? Mass Exodus + limited players seen + NO QB's + 1 average RB = Highly Suspect Class
Too funny #2 ...."As for the kids who left, they were great talents that simply weren't going to see much playtime"........First off, are you that dumb to not think the recruits that didn't cut it might of been poorly evaluated and THEY WEREN'T THAT GOOD?! And these poorly evaluated recruits by Weis definitely weren't that far behind the depth charts considering the depth chart in front of them was a TEAM THAT HAD ONE OF THE WORST PRODUCTIVE SEASONS IN MAJOR COLLEGE HISTORY! I would think except for a couple positions(not even QB!) that every position is up for grabs and playing time for a team with so many holes wouldv'e been desirable to any Irish player on the depth chart.
So Irish Chrissy do you just say that Charlie has reversed the rapid declines in player development THAT WAS SEEN IN REGULAR SEASON COMPETITION IN 2007 because of what you saw in the Spring against eachother??:) And you call me silly
Considering ND's play in 2007 I think you'll find a lot of opposing fans will just assume you knew their stance on the outcome of the game.....no offense.
Yeah whatever will UW do without those undrafted NFL players like Russo and Reece. It was Reece and Russo that made Locker and the OL one of the best at their positions in the Pac-10, huh?
Now if my team was losing a high NFL draft pick from the TE, DE and S positions and lower pick at OL and my team was an unprecedentedly pathetic team last year.....i wouldn't be too confident of anything......
Just Weis and his genius promises and, well, those trusted Lemming ND-steroided star rankings that had Jones and Frazer ahead of Locker.
2 months ago
I don't know Lisa. I think your a west coast girl but I don't know how old you are.
Don James dominated the Pac10 for years starting in the 70's.
They've had great success in the and 80's and early 90's and were a premier program on the west coast,
back when usc was taking their dirt nap.
They had a pipeline to great southern pacific talent and should still be able too recruit incredibly.
UW should own the northwest and should still be able to get southwest talent.
They haven't been the same since Neuheisel and it's a bit of a shame.
I would love to see them great again, just to have someone give usc a wooping once in a while.
The problem is not, as you say, because ND has history and UW does not.
That's a convenient excuse Lisa.
Are you a Tyrone apologist too?
The problem is because Ty has the work ethic of a 13 year old.
The guy hits the the golf course everyday. Rain, shine, or practice, that's where you can find that guy.
He's not a bad coach. He's more of a raa-raa guy, but nothing as bad as petey the poodle.
He just isn't the leader that a proud program like the Huskys deserve.
He will never build that team up to where it should be.
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