Why The LeBron/Kobe Debate Reminds Me Of The Jordan/Magic/Bird Debate

When I go on the Internet and see back and forth comments about who is better, LeBron or Kobe, I find most of the comments more humorous than accurate. 

About half the comments are usually huge Lebron and Kobe fans saying that their man is “way better”, and that the other person does not know anything about basketball, since the other person does not agree with the person currently making the comment. 

I find these comments to be silly, inaccurate, and counter productive to having an intelligent sports debate.

The other half of the comments are usually reasonable opinions as why to their man is better than the other man.  The problem is, however, that many of the comments are arguing about two different, distinct evaluations about who is better and results in, of course, another inaccurate and meaningless discussion in my opinion. 

The first type of comments is inexcusable (unless you are younger than, say 16, and then we will all give you a pass since we were probably all the same way when we were that young), while the second type of comments is understandable given the hidden complexity of the debate.  Please allow me to explain.

If you are arguing about who is better all time between two retired players, or if you are arguing STRICTLY about who is better at this very moment, then the debate is relatively simple (but, very subjective, of course). 

Obviously, the first comparison does not pertain to our Lebron/Kobe debate, while the second one does.  However, given that there is an MVP award (as opposed to a Player of the Year Award) and that both players are both are still active, there are actually four (!) different rating comparisons between the two players.

When comparing them currently (for simplicity’s sake, “at this very moment”), there are two comparisons: 

1) Who is the better player? (That player, theoretically would win the “Player of the Year Award” if there was one—which there should be in my opinion.)

2) Who should win the MVP Award ?(This which is skewed towards the best players on the very best teams—rightly or wrongly.)

When comparing them (Kobe and LeBron) all time, there are also two comparisons: 

3) Who is better all time as of right now?

4) Who do you think will go down as the better player all time once their careers are over? 

Given that LeBron has only played five full seasons and is only 24, I find the first comparison to be unfair and silly.  The second one is just a guess and extremely subjective and while I have an opinion,  I have no idea whether I am right.  Who knows how many championships, MVP awards, and Finals MVPs each player will win before their career is over (Kobe is only 30 and Michael Jordan did just fine after that age).

The last sentence brings us to the point of the article, and I’ll give you a typical Kobe (honestly, I love both players and Kobe has been my favorite player to watch almost from the moment that he came into the league) supporter comment to make my point, “Kobe is better than LeBron because he has three rings and LeBron has zero.” 

My first question is better in which of the four comparisons?  Second, it is irrelevant to our first three comparisons, since LeBron has played only five full seasons and Kobe has played 10 full seasons.  In addition, even a knowledgeable 12-year basketball fan would counter with “Kobe had Shaq (and Phil Jackson) and LeBron did not (and their careers are not over).”

As for comparison number four, while relevant, it is just a guess as to how persuasive this argument is since how the rest of their careers will end up is still a huge guess and this is still unknown.  While on the face of it, this seems like a good argument, for the reasons discussed above, it is not (especially for the first three comparisons) and the fact a 12-year old could quickly come up a good rebuttal to the fourth comparison should tell you this (in addition to the unknown and subjectivity factors.)

And I heard the same argument about 20 years ago when Jordan had zero championships by Magic and Bird fans, and even neutral observers.  And they were all dead wrong and I was right, because not only has Jordan had gone down as the greatest basketball player ever by the majority of knowledgeable basketball observers, he was clearly (it is close, but clear) better than Magic and Bird. 

I am not looking for a debate on this topic because it is not the point of the article.  If you want to debate this go to my article, “The 25 Greatest Basketball Players of All Time.”

And I’m not arguing that LeBron is better than Kobe—either currently or all time.  The first one I see as a dead heat and the second one is too much of a guess, hence premature.  If I had to guess, LeBron will win the MVP award this year because the Cavaliers have less talent than the Lakers and they have similar records, and that LeBron will go down as the better player once their careers are over.  But, as pointed out, they are just guesses and very subjective.

Back 20 years ago, I knew that Jordan was the best basketball player that I had ever seen, however, when ever the discussion came up about who was better Magic and Bird (currently) they kept throwing (and throwing and throwing) that ring argument at me.  As most of you know, the Kobe and LeBron situation is very similar to Jordan/Magic/Bird situation. 

Back then, Magic already had five rings playing with Jabbar and other All-Stars the ENTIRE time, and Bird had three rings playing with Parish and a slew of All-Stars.  Jordan’s center when he first got into the league was Dave Corzine, and until Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant became good players, he had a lot less to work with.

For his career, Jordan played with less talent than both Magic and Bird and ended up with more championships (six).  Given that history, now you know why I find it disingenuous and illogical when I still hear Magic and Laker fans say that Magic is the greatest player ever. 

After all, I have, by far, their best argument 20 years ago on my side for the last eight years (again, see my article for a debate and for other reasons).

I also realize now that if I had had the four different comparisons listed above clearer in my mind (I just got it clear in mind when I went to write this article), I might have made a more persuasive argument to the Magic/Bird fans.  But, the bottom line is that since I was arguing who the better player was and not who won more championships, and who was going to go down in history as the better player when all of their careers were over with (and not who would in 1990, which was silly and unfair). 

And on both accounts, I was in the minority view point on both discussions, and yet it turns out that I was clearly right on both accounts (along with other big Jordan fans at the time).

And while I am not going to go so far as to state to the Magic/Bird fans “that I told you so”, given the helplessness and frustration that I felt with other Jordan fans about 20 years ago, I would be lying if I tried to pretend that I was not thinking this thought (or that I have been thinking this thought since 1998 when Jordan won his sixth title).  So, take heart, LeBron fans—you may be right—we just do not know for sure yet.