Nocioni To The Celtics? 3 Way Trade Talks Rumored

Thomas HalzackAnalyst INovember 17, 2009

LAS VEGAS - OCTOBER 15:  Ron Artest #37 of the Los Angeles Lakers drives against Andres Nocioni #5 of the Sacramento Kings during their preseason game at the Thomas & Mack Center October 15, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. NOTE TO USER: User expressly acknowledges and agrees that, by downloading and/or using this Photograph, user is consenting to the terms and conditions of the Getty Images License Agreement.  (Photo by Ethan Miller/Getty Images)
Ethan Miller/Getty Images

There is a trade rumor coming from Marc Stein of ESPN’s True Hoop Blog that the Kings and 76ers are trying to get the Celtics interested in a three–way trade.

It would send Andres Nocioni to the Celtics with Tony Allen and Brian Scalabrine heading to Philly, while the hard-to-trade Samuel Dalembert and J.R Giddens   to the Sacramento Kings. The 76ers would receive Kenny Thomas from the Kings.

According to Stein, the Celtics have been interested in Nocioni since he was traded to the Kings last season.

Over on a survey of fans suggests it is a no brainer, with those in favor at 77% as I write this.

Talent-wise, it appears to be an immediate upgrade for the Celtics. Nocioni is kind of like Ryan Gomes . Versatile offensive small forward that can play some power forward, but not as proficient on the defensive end. He also has a much bigger salary than Gomes was able to obtain.

Nocioni will get $7.5 mil this year , then $6.85 mil., then $6.6 mil., then a team option for $7.5 mil.

Here are the pluses for the Celtics

1) Andres is a solid veteran with playoff experience.

2) Slightly taller and with a stronger body than Marquis Daniels. He has only missed significant time in one year – 06-07 he missed 29 games. 80 game player for the rest of his career.

3) More outside offense (37% career three point shooter) to spread the floor.

4) That could help send Rasheed Wallace back inside more, where he really should be spending more time when the two are on the court together.

5) The Cs have been seeking offers for Tony Allen and J.R. Giddens since training camp. It allows them to move both of them for a player they can use.

6) Nocioni fits a piece they are missing…a solid back up at small forward.

7) Though not strong defensively, he is a hard nosed player. He could possibly fit the Celtics defensive schemes.

8 ) Andres is 29 years old as we speak, so he is an in-betweener that way. He’s a Goldilocks-er....not too young, not too old.

The negatives for the Cs:
1) His contract.

Now…in the aftermath of letting Posey go and Tony Allen’ s disappointing year, I said that the Celtics should have signed Posey and worried about the later years… later. The same can be said here, and Nocioni is younger than Posey. If Danny has been interested in him since last season, I wonder if that has changed at all in light of the salary commitments they added since then.

2) His defense is questionable. has him as –4.2 in individual production (14.1 vs 18.2) . But that can be misleading. James Posey who absolutely helped the Celtics defensively in the Championship season, while better, still had a negative production number  –3.0 (13.9 vs 16.8). But Posey is well known as a defensive specialist. Nocioni is not.

The Kings are slightly better defensively when Nocioni is off the court in points per possession (112.2 vs 109.1)

One message board poster suggested that Andre was responsible for shutting down Kevin Durant the last time the Kings and Thunder played. Granted Kevin shot just nine for 23 in that game, but Durant scored 37 points, his second highest total of the year. He also was 18-18 from the free throw line, though Nocioni only had three fouls. That suggests that others were guarding KD and were fouling him to stop him.

Two things
a) Nocioni gives the team 6 more fouls to use
b) Can he become a better defender in the Celtic system? Even if he doesn’t, he still has fouls to give.

A couple of questions

1) Would a chance to play for a true contender reinvigorate Andres’ game? That question was also asked with Rasheed Wallace, BTW. It should.

2) What other possibilities might be out there, say a solid defensive small forward, something the Celtics really could use?

With the cap going down and as teams drop out of playoff races, will there be an even better opportunity with a bit more patience? Dec 15th is the first date certain players can be moved.

My developing opinion…

If Danny doesn’t have his eye on any other players that might fit better and could become available later, then I would pull the trigger on this.

But understand… Nocioni is not James Posey, Bruce Bowen, Dahntay Jones, Trevor Ariza, nor any other defensive stopper.

I am of the opinion that the Celtics roster is in need of help. I suggested that, and that Danny knows that as well, in this preseason prediction article here.

The recent play of the Celtics has done nothing to change my mind. In fact, it feeds that opinion. I would prefer a younger player, as I think the Cs need some youthful athleticism.

Nocioni will 30 years old in a few weeks on November 30th.

But I also understand the desire to go "all in" to win this season. Championship opportunities are just too hard to come by – if that is your goal. Garnett will probably never quite return to pre-injury jumping ability. None of three stars are getting younger.

The only thing that changes that is if Danny Ainge already has an eye toward the longer term and realizes that he needs to bring in another top tier player this coming summer to continue to compete for multiple years beyond.

Another outlet is reporting that ESPN is incorrect and nothing is going down with Dalembert.

I like Andres Nocioni’s game. I understand his limitations. While not perfect for what the Celtics need, he does help. They give up some guaranteed 2010 flexibility ($7.5 mil) for help now.

We’ll have to see how this all plays out.

Edit - the latest from Gary Washburn of The Globe's denies interest by the Celtics....

"According to two sources, there has been no discussion from the Celtics' side on this deal, and one of those two sources said the Celtics have not reached out to Sacramento about inquiring about Nocioni. The issue for Boston is the length of Nocioni's contract."

That makes sense and is the same reason why James Posey was allowed to leave.

To be fair, ESPN's Marc Stein's article said they were trying to interest the Celtics in joining the deal - not that they had accomplished that objective.

Tom Halzack is the author/creator of Celtics Central on the website. This article first appeared there. Tom also writes weekly for


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