MLB Power Rankings: Is Your Team's Offseason Overrated or Underrated? Part 1

With less than four weeks to go until spring training officially begins, MLB teams are putting the finishing touches on their offseason plans.

Experts and pundits will no doubt label teams as winners or losers based on offseason moves. Some of the reported losers will be labeled as such because of a lack of significant moves or because of moves that were deemed questionable.

The winners don't necessarily have to be the teams that were the most active, either.

Here is a ranking of each team's offseason for teams ranked No. 30 through No.16.

Based on comments seen on the Internet, we will also determine whether or not those comments overrate or underrate each team's offseason ranking. Overrated would mean the ranking seen here might be too generous based on web feedback.

Feedback will come from a variety of sources, including comments from each team's fan forum on MLB.com.

Rankings for the top 15 teams will be published on Friday.

Note: All offseason transactions courtesy of MLB Depth Charts.

30. Miami Marlins

Arrivals

C Jeff Mathis—Trade (TOR)
1B Joe Mahoney—Waivers (BAL)
3B Placido Polanco—Free Agent (PHI)
SS/2B Derek Dietrich—Trade (TB)
SS/3B Yunel Escobar—Trade (TOR)
IF Yordy Cabrera—Trade (ARI)
IF Adeiny Hechavarria—Trade (TOR)
OF Jake Marisnick—Trade (TOR)
OF Juan Pierre—Free Agent (PHI)
OF Alfredo Silverio—Rule 5 (LAD)
RHP Henderson Alvarez—Trade (TOR)
RHP Anthony DeScalfani—Trade (TOR)
LHP Braulio Lara—Rule 5 (TB)
LHP Scott Maine—Waivers (TOR)
LHP Justin Nicolino—Trade (TOR)

Departures

C John Buck—Trade (TOR)
C Brett Hayes—Waivers (KC)
SS Yunel Escobar—Trade (TB)
SS Jose Reyes—Trade (TOR)
IF/OF Emilio Bonifacio—Trade (TOR)
OF Scott Cousins—Waivers (TOR)
RHP Heath Bell—Trade (ARI)
RHP Chad Gaudin—Free Agent (SF)
RHP Josh Johnson—Trade (TOR)
RHP Sandy Rosario—Waivers (BOS)
LHP Mark Buehrle—Trade (TOR)

The Marlins at least were able to get rid of two expiring contracts in John Buck and Josh Johnson, but that's of little consolation to fans who are completely sick of the team again undergoing fire sales.

This is a team that has clearly given up on the present and is now focused on building, or trying to build, for the middle of the decade and beyond.

But there will be a lot of losing before that period of time arrives. 

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

There shouldn't be any question that the Marlins deserved the low ranking here.

29. Texas Rangers

Arrivals

C A.J. Pierzynski—Free Agent (CWS)
C Konrad Schmidt—Waivers (ARI)
C Eli Whiteside—Waivers (TOR)
1B Lance Berkman—Free Agent (STL)
RHP Lisalverto Bonilla—Trade (PHI)
RHP Jacob Brigham—Trade (CHC)
RHP Cory Burns—Trade (SD)
RHP Jason Frasor—Free Agent (TOR)
RHP Josh Lindblom—Trade (PHI)
RHP Joakim Soria—Free Agent (KC)
RHP Coty Woods—Rule 5 (COL)
LHP Jeff Beliveau—Waivers (CHC)
LHP Tommy Hottovy—Trade (KC) 

Departures

C Luis Martinez—Waivers (BAL)
1B Chris McGuiness—Rule 5 (CLE)
IF Michael Young—Trade (PHI)
OF Josh Hamilton—Free Agent (LAA)
RHP Mike Adams—Free Agent (PHI)
RHP Wilfredo Boscan—Trade (SD)
RHP Ryan Dempster—Free Agent (BOS)
RHP Scott Feldman—Free Agent (CHC)
RHP Barret Loux—Trade (CHC)
RHP Koji Uehara—Free Agent (BOS)
LHP Tommy Hottovy—Waivers (TOR)

Losing Josh Hamilton, Michael Young and Mike Napoli was certainly a blow. Replacing them with A.J. Pierzynksi and Lance Berkman doesn't quite ease the sting.

In addition, allowing an effective Koji Uehara to walk via free agency and then signing a replacement in Joakim Soria, who won't be available until June, was perplexing to say the least.

The Rangers still don't have a bona fide ace at the top of their rotation, either.

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

Judging from feedback, fans are certainly skeptical. Experts and pundits are putting the best spin on things as well.

This ranking is likely a bit overrated, but I just don't think the Rangers did nearly enough to combat the loss of three key offensive contributors and two key bullpen arms, not to mention not acquiring a top-shelf starter.

28. San Diego Padres

Arrivals

1B A.J. Kirby-Jones—Trade (OAK)
RHP Wilfredo Boscan—Trade (TEX)
RHP Brandon Kloess—Trade (CWS)
RHP Tyson Ross—Trade (OAK)
LHP Chris Rearick—Trade (TB) 

Departures

C Ali Solis—Waivers (PIT)
1B Nate Freiman—Rule 5 (HOU)
1B/2B Vince Belnome—Trade (TB)
IF Andy Parrino—Trade (OAK)
OF Blake Tekotte—Trade (CWS)
RHP Cory Burns—Trade (TEX)
LHP Josh Spence—Waivers (NYY)
LHP Andrew Werner—Trade (OAK)

The Padres didn't lose any key pieces, but they certainly didn't gain any, either.

Trading for Tyson Ross, who posted a 2-11 record and 6.53 ERA last year for the A's, certainly fails as the largest upgrade made thus far.

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

Likely a bit overrated.

Fans are puzzled at the lack of moves, but the general consensus is that general manager Josh Byrnes just wasn't willing to overpay for free agents or get fleeced in the trade market.

I can understand not wanting to overpay, but making virtually no moves of any kind doesn't address any concerns, either.

27. Colorado Rockies

Arrivals

1B/3B Ryan Wheeler—Trade (ARI)
OF Kenneth Williams—Trade (CWS)
RHP Wilton Lopez—Trade (HOU)
LHP Daniel Rosenbaum—Rule 5 (WAS)
RHP Manny Corpas—Free Agent (CHI) 

Departures

1B Mark Tracy—Trade (CWS)
IF Tommy Field—Waivers (MIN)
RHP Alex Gillingham—Trade (HOU)
RHP Guillermo Moscoso—Waivers (KC)
RHP Josh Roenicke—Waivers (MIN)
RHP Alex White—Trade (HOU)
RHP Coty Woods—Rule 5 (TEX)
LHP Matt Reynolds—Trade (ARI)

As seen above, the Rockies have done a better job attracting flies than they have capable reinforcements.

Well, they did attract Jeff Francis.

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

Very close.

Sports Illustrated called the Rockies' offseason "duller than dishwater."

Hard to argue that point.

26. Houston Astros

Arrivals

1B Carlos Peña—Free Agent (TB)
IF Jake Elmore—Waivers (ARI)
OF Che-Hsuan Lin—Waivers (BOS)
RHP Sam Demel—Waivers (ARI)
RHP John Ely—Trade (LAD)
RHP Josh Fields—Rule V (BOS)
RHP Alex Gillingham—Trade (COL)
RHP Phil Humber—Waivers (CWS)
RHP Mickey Storey—Waivers (NYY)
RHP Jose Veras—Free Agent (MIL)
RHP Alex White—Trade (COL) 

Departures

OF Jordan Schafer—Waivers (ATL)
RHP Arcenio Leon—Waivers (MIL)
RHP Wilton Lopez—Trade (COL)
RHP Mickey Storey—Waivers (NYY)/ Waivers (TOR)
LHP Rob Rasmussen—Trade (LAD)

The Houston Astros have a long-term plan, and come hell or high water, they're sticking to it.

In the meantime, fans can expect a team with a payroll of around $25-$30 million that will gamely attempt to avoid a third straight 100-loss season. 

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

Likely a bit overrated.

The Astros certainly didn't do anything in terms of high-profile transactions, but they didn't deviate from their long-term plan for the sake of a quick fix, either.

Signing Jose Veras to be the closer to be was a bit puzzling. Veras has saved exactly five games during his career. Giving up on Lopez was a mistake.

25. Milwaukee Brewers

Arrivals

RHP Burke Badenhop—Trade (TB)
RHP Arcenio Leon—Waivers (HOU)
LHP Mike Gonzalez—Free Agent (WAS)
LHP Tom Gorzelanny—Free Agent (WAS)
RHP Kelvim Escobar—Free Agent

Departures

OF Raul Mondesi, Jr.—Trade (TB)

The Brewers strengthened their bullpen, but nothing else.

Citing payroll constraints, the Brewers have otherwise been inactive. In a tough NL Central Division, that could very well come back to haunt them.

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

Neither.

According to ESPN Insider, the Brewers' inactivity could hurt them in terms of not adding depth:

"

Sure, they still have plenty of talent on the big league roster, but they don't have the depth to afford another three-month slump from Rickie Weeks or an injury that keeps a starting pitcher out for an extended period of time.

"

Beyond Yovani Gallardo at the top of the rotation, the Brewers have no starters who have shown they can consistently work 180-plus innings at the major league level. That could well serve to tax the bullpen. Even with upgrades, the bullpen could be an overworked bunch.

24. Minnesota Twins

Arrivals

IF Tommy Field—Waivers (COL)
RHP Kevin Correia—Free Agent (PIT)
RHP Alex Meyer—Trade (WAS)
RHP Josh Roenicke—Waivers (COL)
RHP Trevor May—Trade (PHI)
RHP Mike Pelfrey—Free Agent (NYM)
RHP Ryan Pressly—Rule 5 (BOS)
RHP Vance Worley—Trade (PHI) 

Departures

IF Alexi Casilla—Waivers (BAL)
IF Tommy Field—Waivers (LAA)
OF Ben Revere—Trade (PHI)
OF Denard Span—Trade (WAS)
RHP Scott Baker—Free Agent (CHC)
RHP C. Gutierrez—Waivers (CHC)

The Twins have seen two promising young outfielders leave and middle-of-the-road starting pitchers arrive. I just don't see that as a recipe for future success.

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

Likely a tick underrated. Web feedback might have had the Twins at No. 25 or 26.

Based on feedback, the arrival of young pitching prospects Alex Meyer and Trevor May bodes well for the future, but putting center field in the hands of Darin Mastroianni is a downgrade.

Prospect Aaron Hicks is likely the future there, if the youngster can show he can hit beyond the AA level.

Kevin Correia and Mike Pelfrey are fillers for the rotation, not upgrades. Vance Worley will be looking to bounce back from a disappointing sophomore season as well.

The Twins could make a play for Joe Saunders before all is said and done—that would help their ranking significantly.

23. Pittsburgh Pirates

Arrivals

C Russell Martin—Free Agent (NYY)
C Ali Solis—Waivers (SD)
1B Clint Robinson—Trade (KC)
1B/OF Jerry Sands—Trade (BOS)
IF Ivan De Jesus, Jr.—Trade (BOS)
RHP Chad Beck—Waivers (TOR)
RHP Jeanmar Gomez—Trade (CLE)
RHP Vin Mazzaro—Trade (KC)
RHP Jhondaniel Medina—Trade (BAL)
RHP Mark Melancon—Trade (BOS)
RHP Stolmy Pimentel—Trade (BOS)
RHP Zach Stewart—Trade (BOS)
RHP Zach Thornton—Trade (OAK)
LHP Andy Oliver—Trade (DET) 

Departures

C Ramon Cabrera—Trade (DET)
IF Brock Holt—Trade (BOS)
IF Gustavo Nuñez—Waivers (ARI)
IF/OF Yamaico Navarro—Trade (BAL)
OF Quincy Latimore—Trade (CLE)
RHP Chad Beck—Waivers (TOR)
RHP Kevin Correia—Free Agent (MIN)
RHP Joel Hanrahan—Trade (BOS)
RHP Kyle Kaminska—Trade (BOS)
RHP Chris Resop—Trade (OAK)
RHP Luis Santos—Trade (KC)
LHP Luis Rico—Trade (KC)

The biggest arrival for the Pirates was catcher Russell Martin, who should add power in the middle of the lineup and solid defensive skills behind the plate. Losing Joel Hanrahan was a big blow, however. 

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

Probably overrated.

Pirates fans will say that Russell Martin was a great signing and that Jason Grilli can shine as a closer. But Mark Melancon as a setup man? This is the same pitcher that posted a 6.20 ERA in 41 appearances for the Boston Red Sox last season.

Attempting to sign Francisco Liriano to a two-year deal for between $12-$14 million was an absolute joke as well. With any luck, the Pirates will end up walking away from that fiasco.

They at least brought back Jeff Karstens for some added depth.

Unless the Pirates have something else up their sleeves, it feels like they just treaded water this offseason.

22. New York Yankees

Arrivals

C Eli Whiteside—Waivers (SF)
C Bobby Wilson—Free Agent (TOR)
3B Kevin Youkilis—Free Agent (CWS)
IF/OF Russ Canzler—Waivers (CLE)
RHP David Herndon—Waivers (TOR)
RHP Jim Miller—Waivers (OAK)
RHP Mickey Storey—Waivers (HOU)
LHP Josh Spence—Waivers (SD)
LF Matt Diaz—Free Agent (ATL) 

Departures

C Russell Martin—Free Agent (PIT)
C Eli Whiteside—Waivers (TOR)
3B/1B Eric Chavez—Free Agent (ARI)
OF Raul Ibañez—Free Agent (SEA)
OF Andruw Jones—Free Agent (Rakuten-Japan)
OF Nick Swisher—Free Agent (CLE)
RHP Brad Meyers—Rule V Return (WAS)
RHP Rafael Soriano—Free Agent (WAS)
RHP Mickey Storey—Waivers (HOU)
RHP Cory Wade—Waivers (TOR)

The Yankees retained a whole slew of 30-something veterans and even a couple of 40-somethings as well.

They also signed a 30-something in Kevin Youkilis to take the place of another broken-down 30-something, Alex Rodriguez.

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

Likely overrated.

Fans seem happy that their aging stars are back in the fold, but was it anywhere near enough to match what was done by other teams in the American League?

21. Kansas City Royals

Arrivals

C Brett Hayes—Waivers (MIA)
RHP Wade Davis—Trade (TB)
RHP Guillermo Moscoso—Waivers (COL)
RHP Ervin Santana—Trade (LAA)
RHP Luis Santos—Trade (PIT)
RHP James Shields—Trade (TB)
RHP Chris Volstad—Waivers (CHC)
LHP Luis Rico—Trade (PIT)

Departures

1B Clint Robinson—Trade (PIT)
3B Patrick Leonard—Trade (TB)
OF Wil Myers—Trade (TB)
RHP Jeremy Jeffress—Trade (TOR)
RHP Vin Mazzaro—Trade (PIT)
RHP Jake Odorizzi—Trade (TB)
RHP Joakim Soria—Free Agent (TEX)
RHP Blake Wood—Waivers (CLE)
LHP Tommy Hottovy—Trade (TEX)
LHP Mike Montgomery—Trade (TB)
LHP Brandon Sisk—Trade (LAA)

The Royals gave up a huge chunk of the future for the present. They gave the Tampa Bay Rays three prospects (Wil Myers, Jake Odorizzi, Mike Montgomery) who could all help the Rays not only very shortly but for a very long time.

In return, they got a pitcher in James Shields who is potentially in the final year of his contract. They also acquired three other pitchers—Ervin Santana, Guillermo Moscoso and Chris Volstad—who may not be of much help at all.

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

Based on web feedback, it's probably pretty close.

Twinkietown.com agrees that the Royals sacrificed the three best prospects they've seen in a long time. Royals Hall of Fame director Curt Nelson believes that fans are stoked about the Royals' moves, however.  

One fan compared the Shields-Myers trade to that of the trade the Seattle Mariners made to get Erik Bedard, giving up Adam Jones and other prospects in the process. That trade certainly got the Mariners no closer to their goal. 

The reactions are certainly mixed, depending on what you read.  

20. Baltimore Orioles

Arrivals

C Luis Martinez—Waivers (TEX)
3B Danny Valencia—Trade (BOS)
IF Alexi Casilla—Waivers (MIN)
IF/OF Yamaico Navarro—Trade (PIT)
OF Trayvon Robinson—Trade (SEA) 

Departures

1B Joe Mahoney—Waivers (MIA)
1B Mark Reynolds—Free Agent (CLE)
IF Robert Andino—Trade (SEA)
IF Omar Quintanilla—Minor League Free Agent (NYM)
OF Endy Chavez—Minor League Free Agent (KC)
RHP Jhondaniel Medina—Trade (PIT)
LHP T.J. McFarland—Rule 5 (CLE)

Moves for the Orioles this offseason have been few and far between thus far. They still have no clear choice for a designated hitter and no additional veteran starter to help stabilize a young starting rotation. 

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

This one might be underrated.

Kevin Cowherd of the Baltimore Sun ripped into the Orioles' lack of activity. Orioles beat reporter Brittany Ghiroli of MLB.com didn't offer up a glowing review either when she made an appearance on local radio last month.

Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun also solicited fans' comments last month, and not many of them were positive at all.

19. Arizona Diamondbacks

Arrivals

1B/OF Lars Anderson—Trade (CLE)
1B/OF Eric Hinske—Free Agent (ATL)
3B/1B Eric Chavez—Free Agent (NYY)
SS Didi Gregorius—Trade (CLE)
IF Gustavo Nuñez—Waivers (PIT)
IF Cliff Pennington—Trade (OAK)
OF Cody Ross—Free Agent (BOS)
RHP Heath Bell—Trade (MIA)
RHP Brandon McCarthy—Free Agent (OAK)
RHP Starling Peralta—Rule 5 (CHC)
LHP Matt Reynolds—Trade (COL)
LHP Tony Sipp—Trade (CLE) 

Departures

C Henry Blanco—Free Agent (TOR)
C Konrad Schmidt—Waivers (TEX)
1B/3B Ryan Wheeler—Trade (COL)
IF Yordy Cabrera—Trade (MIA)
IF Jake Elmore—Waivers (HOU)
IF Gustavo Nuñez—Rule 5 return (DET)
OF Ender Inciarte—Rule 5 (PHI)
OF Chris Young—Trade (OAK)
RHP Matt Albers—Trade (CLE)
RHP Trevor Bauer—Trade (CLE)
RHP Brad Bergesen—Free Agent (Japan)
RHP Sam Demel—Waivers (HOU)
RHP Takashi Saito—Free Agent (Japan)
RHP Bryan Shaw—Trade (CLE)

The Diamondbacks have certainly been active since late October, but do all of the moves combined measure up? It seems that when putting everything together, cohesiveness is not part of the equation.

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

Might be underrated based on several different posts and opinions.

Venomstrikes.com is about as perplexed as many others concerning the D-backs' offseason. They questioned the merits of giving closer J.J. Putz another year as well:

"

However, with the extension of Putz the bullpen now has between $23 and $24 million in salary over the next two seasons for two relievers 35 and over.  That seems like a pretty steep price for the organization particularly when you consider that Bell could be guaranteed $9 million in 2015 if he reaches certain incentives. 

"

SB Nation Arizona is similarly unimpressed.

Finally, on Monday, Jon Paul Morosi of FoxSports.com tweeted that Arizona might be interested in acquiring starter Rick Porcello from the Detroit Tigers. Now it that happens, I'll be happy to move the Diamondbacks farther down on this list.

18. New York Mets

Arrivals

C John Buck—Trade (TOR)
C Travis d'Arnaud—Trade (TOR)
C Anthony Recker—Waivers (CHC)
IF Brandon Hicks—Trade (OAK)
OF Wuilmer Becerra—Trade (TOR)
OF Collin Cowgill—Trade (OAK)
RHP Noah Syndergaard—Trade (TOR)
LHP Kyle Lobstein—Rule 5 (TB) 

Departures

C Mike Nickeas—Trade (TOR)
C Josh Thole—Trade (TOR)
3B Jefry Marte—Trade (OAK)
OF Andres Torres—Free Agent (SF)
RHP Manny Acosta—Free Agent (Yomiuri-Japan)
RHP R.A. Dickey—Trade (TOR)
RHP Mike Pelfrey—Free Agent (MIN)
LHP Kyle Lobstein—Trade (DET)

The Mets somewhat redeemed themselves with the R.A. Dickey deal. They picked up two excellent young prospects in d'Arnaud and Sundergaard.

However, the rest of the offseason has been non-existent—the only position they've really addressed at all is the catcher's position. Unless of course you consider Cowgill a major outfield upgrade.

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

It's probably right where it should be.

While many fans are frustrated that 2013 is shaping up to be another long year, many have given general manager Sandy Alderson props for having the guts to deal a Cy Young pitcher away for solid prospects.

Alderson is clearly looking towards 2014 and beyond. The contracts of Johan Santana and Jason Bay will be off the books, clearing over $40 million alone. Money will be there to spend at that point.

17. Chicago White Sox

Arrivals

1B Mark Tracy—Trade (COL)
IF Jeff Keppinger—Free Agent (TB)
IF Angel Sanchez—Rule 5 (LAA)
OF Blake Tekotte—Trade (SD)

Departures

C A.J. Pierzynski—Free Agent (TEX)
3B Kevin Youkilis—Free Agent (NYY)
IF Jose Lopez—Free Agent (Yomiuri-Japan)
OF Kenneth Williams—Trade (CWS)
RHP Phil Humber—Waivers (HOU)
RHP Brandon Kloess—Trade (SD)
RHP Brandon Myers—Free Agent (CLE)
LHP Francisco Liriano—Free Agent (PIT)

With the exception of signing Keppinger to replace Kevin Youkilis at third base, the White Sox have been strangely quiet.

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

I might have them a tick underrated.

One blogger describes the White Sox's offseason as "listless."

Another blogger wonders if the Sox are just holding out until July:

"

Perhaps they’re content to play the waiting game; to hold onto some of their chips until July to see what kind of position they’re in (and what their team most desperately needs) before pushing their final stack to the center of the table. But, if they give the Tigers a three month head start, there might not be much left to play for once we’re on the other side of the All-Star break.

"

16. Chicago Cubs

Arrivals

C Dioner Navarro—Free Agent (CIN)
RF Nate Schierholtz—Free Agent (PHI)
RHP Scott Baker—Free Agent (MIN)
RHP Marcelo Carreno—Trade (DET)
RHP Scott Feldman—Free Agent (TEX)
RHP Kyuji Fujikawa—Free Agent (Japan)
RHP Carlos Gutierrez—Waivers (MIN)
RHP Edwin Jackson—Free Agent (WAS)
RHP Barret Loux—Trade (TEX)
RHP Hector Rondon—Rule V (CLE)
RHP Sandy Rosario—Waivers (BOS)
RHP Zach Putnam—Waivers (COL)
RHP Carlos Villanueva—Free Agent (TOR)
LHP Dontrelle Willis—Free Agent (BAL)
LHP Hisanori Takahashi—Free Agent (PIT)
OF Darnell McDonald—Free Agent (NYY)
CF Brent Lillibridge—Free Agent (CLE)

Departures

C Anthony Recker—Waivers (NYM)
1B/OF Bryan LaHair—Free Agent (Japan)
RHP Jacob Brigham—Trade (TEX)
RHP Starling Peralta—Rule 5 (ARI)
RHP Sandy Rosario—Waivers (SF)
RHP Miguel Socolovich—Free Agent (Japan)
RHP Chris Volstad—Waivers (KC)
LHP Jeff Beliveau—Waivers (TEX)

Aside from acquiring backup catcher Dioner Navarro and outfielder Nate Schierholtz, the Cubs have focused solely on pitching. Considering their long-term goals, it makes sense that pitching would be the priority at this point.

Is This Ranking Overrated or Underrated According to Web Feedback?

Very close.

No one expected the Cubs to spend for this season. While they made an attempt to acquire Anibal Sanchez, that wasn't for a short-term fix.

Money was spent to sign Jackson ($52 million), and Feldman and Baker are both on one-year deals. If either pan out, the Cubs could use them at the trade deadline to flip for prospects.

Was it an offseason that blew people away? No, but they didn't deviate from their plan, either.