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Chris, I've listed at least 5 pieces of solid evidence in previous notes why Winnipeg won't get a team with its current arena. Now I'll give you a 6th one. If Winnipeg's current arena was big enough, why didn't any Manitoba investor make a bid for the Coyotes? No investor did because the arena was too small. If Winnipeg had a proper NHL size 18000+ arena, don't you think an investor might step forward to get the team back? The NHL would rather go back to Winnipeg than Balsillie and Hamilton.
59 days ago
Thanks for reading and commenting on my article Chris. It's not time for Canadians to mourn what happened to Winnipeg, Hamilton, and Quebec but to clear the NHL out of Canada so that a new league can be started.
60 days ago
Hi Chris, thanks for reading and commenting on my article (even though I wrote it back in May). But please quit misinterpreting some of my points.
1. I am NOT trying to sabotage Winnipeg's chances of getting back the Jets. I am in favor of it.
2. Winnipeg's arena management has publicly stated that the arena is for the AHL, not the NHL.
3. What I am not in favor of is Winnipeg trying to get into the NHL with an inadequate arena that only seats 15,000. There are five on-going cases that back up my point. Pittsburgh which has an arena 2000 seats more than Winnipeg is building a new larger one. Their owner and management has stated that their current arena cannot do the job. The New York Islanders with an arena 1500 seats more than Winnipeg are threatening to move to Kansas City because their arena is too small. Hartford which wants the Whalers back has admitted that its arena, which the same size as Winnipeg's is too small and is considering building an arena comparable to the average size NHL arena. If Hamilton gets the Coyotes, the arena will be expanded to !8,500. Finally Quebec's leading investor, Quebecor is searching for partners to build a new arena which will be substantially larger than their current one which is Winnipeg's size.
4. How is Winnipeg going to compete for a franchise, especially against the Americans if they don't have an equal or larger arena?
5. I have NEVER disputed your point that Winnipeg is a better market than the money-losing American teams. But being better than them doesn't make Winnipeg a viable market. If Winnipeg was so much better, why did they lose their team in the first place?
6. A. bigger arena will allow Winnipeg to remain solvent and increase their chances of survival and icing a competitive team.
7. If the Winnipeg arena is NHL-ready, how come no investor from Manitoba has made a bid for the Coyotes? The NHL would rather go back to Winnipeg than Hamilton.
104 days ago
Thanks for reading and commenting on my article, Chris. I'm not going to repeat all the arguments I've listed in that long comment I left on your bulletin board six months ago. I still stick by every word. The only thing I will repeat is that I would like to see Winnipeg back in the NHL with a competitive team that only a proper NHL-size arena (18000+) can give. If anything, the way things have gone since then have only confirmed the points I've listed below.
1. If Hamilton gets the team, their arena which is already 2000 seats more than Winnipeg will be upgraded to 18,500.
2. The Islanders which have an arena 1500 seats more than Winnipeg are in so dire a strait that Bettman recently made an urgent appeal to investors and local government there to build a new arena or else (leaving out that the team could be moved to Kansas City if a new arena is not built.)
3. As noted below, Hartford's mayor has agreed that the current 15,000 seat arena is inadequate and there is an on-line petition set up to try get the Whalers back.
4. Winnipeg is now also behind Quebec which has finally found a wealthy investor Quebecor (which recently failed to buy the Montreal Canadians) to be the upfront leader in the quest to get a team back to Quebec City. And Quebecor has stated that the current Winnipeg-size 15,000 seat arena is inadequate and is currently looking for more investors to be partners both in building a new arena and getting its team back. Assuming Balsillie gets the Coyotes in Hamilton, I believe the next NHL "Canadian crisis" will be in Quebec, not Winnipeg.
5. Until Winnipeg solves its arena and investor problems, it cannot be taken seriously for a team. If Winnipeg had both of these issues solved and was able to make a bid on the Coyotes, the NHL would have preferred going back to Winnipeg instead of Balsillie and Hamilton.
113 days ago
Hello Chris,
Thank you for reading and commenting on my article.
To clear up a few facts:
1. I am in favour of the Jets returning to Winnipeg. They are included in my list of teams that I said could support an NHL team right now if they would build a proper arena. In fact, I said that they would have been tied with Quebec as the best choice of the group I listed if they had NOT built the present arena.
2. Winnipeg has the market the support an NHL team right now. I never denied that. I would never have included them in my list if they didn't have the market but instead I would have ranked them with the Maritimes and Saskatchewan.
3. It is not me you have to impress but Gary Bettman and the NHL board of governors which are likely to be pro-American as it is. And the best way of impressing them is building an arena the bigger the better. How is an arena that is 1000 seats smaller than the smallest current NHL arena (The New York Islanders) going to impress them?
4. If Winnipeg makes a bid for an NHL franchise, you are going to compete against American competition. Kansas City has built an arena that is 3000 seats bigger than Winnipeg's and in a much bigger market. To compensate for your lack of size, you have to do things to close the gap in your favour. Building a larger proper size arena is the main way of doing this. By building a small one, you've hurt your chances.
5. In today's sports market, you have to think long term. When you build an arena or stadium you have to get it right the first time or else. A proper size arena will protect Winnipeg from economic problems like salary escalation, the fall of the Canadian dollar, and other unexpected crisis. A proper arena would allow Winnipeg to bid and keep more star players and free agents for a longer period of time.
6. The very crisis which I just stated is rumoured in the NHL to be occuring at trade deadline time in March by your ex-team in Phoenix. Rumours have been cited in a Toronto paper that the franchise will hold a "fire sale" (ie be forced to trade all their best players because they can't afford them) and this is in a much bigger market with a much bigger arena.
7. Hartford's mayor has recently met with Gary Bettman about bringing back the Whalers within 5 years. They lost their franchise the same way you and Quebec did, by not having a proper arena to get them through tough times. And the mayor agrees that their old 15,000 seat arena (the same size as your arena) will not do and that a new, larger arena will have to be built. How are you going to compete against them if they build it?
8. Pittsburgh's current arena is almost 2000 seats bigger than Winnipeg's and they are getting sellouts every night, yet Mario Lemieux has struggled for the past few years with the Pittsburgh city council to get a new arena built, even considering moving to the new Kansas City arena I mentioned above. Why? Because he knew that the current arena could not do the job for the long term and that only way Pittsburgh would be able to afford Crosby, Malkin and be competitive in the NHL for the long term was to build a modern, larger arena which Pittsburgh is currently doing.
9. When all is said and done, Winnipeg built an arena to suit its own needs, not the NHL which I commended them for in article 4. They built the best arena for an AHL team, not an NHL one. If they had really wanted the Jets back they would have built an arena at least the current median size for an NHL franchise which is 18,000.
10. You and your website group would have done better to have collected a huge number of signatures petitioning your city council to build an arena that was the correct NHL size BEFORE the current design for was accepted. You had to show your city council that the Winnipeg public was clamouring for the Jets to return and that a large arena to impress Bettman and the board of governors was necessary to increase the chances of getting them back.
11. As it is now, you are stuck with an arena that will not do the job for the long term. You have built an arena that will not impress Bettman and the board of governors. Nor will it stand up to competition from other American franchise bidders. And it doesn't even compete well against Hamilton which already has a bigger arena and has pledged $50 million to upgrade it if the NHL comes there. If Quebec or another of the cities I've listed builds an NHL size arena, you'll be even further behind rival Canadian competition.
In my first article about NHL expansion to Canada, my theme was that Canadians, not Americans who have been their own worst enemies for allowing an American-controlled NHL. Winnipeg's arena decision proves me correct again. Steve Thompson
315 days ago
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Steve Thompson said...
DeleteSorry Chris, I'll still stick with my arguments. There are too many economic ifs in your arguments and Winnipeg has too many handicaps as it is. It is Canadian, it is considered small market by the NHL (whether it is true or not), and its competitors have built/are building/or are committed to build larger, more attractive arenas. Winnipeg has to do everything it can to overcome these black marks (whether they are true or not)that are being held against it. A proper NHL size arena will increase investor interest, make Winnipeg more attractive to the NHL, help it against its competitors, and ensure survival for the long term.
And I can answer why Ottawa got a franchise instead of Hamilton. When the NHL stated its terms for expansion, Hamilton's investor, Tim Doughnut questioned them and tried to get them revised before they were awarded a team. That prompted the NHL which wants blind obedience and no questioning to switch to Ottawa.
I'm glad to hear Thomson (of whom I've held corporate bonds in previous years) is considering aiding Winnipeg's cause. He is just the type of investor Winnipeg needs. But if he believes in your arena why didn't make a bid for the Coyotes? He would have welcomed with open arms by the NHL instead of Balsillie and Hamilton.
55 days ago