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1. by Joe
   about 15 hours ago

   Steve,

   Any updates on the Quebec, Winnipeg or Hartford situations? Haven't heard anythng here and google hasn't been very helpful. Its like the talk just died the past month or so.

   Joe

2. by Graham
   1 day ago

   " Actually the point of my argument is that the CFL needs public support and perhaps government money to build stadiums/arenas for CFL/NHL expansion. But when an ownership like Majestic sets out to lure an existing franchise from its home, what is the point of building a sports facility only to see your franchise stolen?

   The NFL is notorious for not defending its member cities. In the case of the CFL, it has been trying to expand from 8-9 teams for decades and the main obstacle is the lack of quality stadiums in non-CFL Canadian cities. Although it is unlikely that any other Canadian city will "steal" a CFL franchise, this example and things like the loss of the Montreal Expos, the shift of the Winnipeg and Quebec NHL teams leave a bad memory and will discourage attempts to raise money to invest in stadiums and new franchises."

   Steve -

   I appreciate your thoughtful note clarifying some of the things I misunderstood from your original article.

   I guess the first point I'd like to clarify is that I personally have a huge double standard between the CFL and the rest of the leagues you mention. I also don't see public money for stadiums as the defining factor in expansion in a league where they have difficulty drawing serious crowds in the country's biggest market (though the argument as to why is an entirely different discussion).

   Excepting the CFL, I'm firmly against spending taxpayer money to line the pockets of already profitable ownership groups. The NFL in particular, as franchise ownership there is a guaranteed moneymaker as long as current broadcast deals stay in place.

   Even in the NHL, where mismanagement is so rampant it's almost criminal (Boots del Biaggio, anyone?), why should we trust our money to a league headed by a commissioners office so dedicated to ignoring it's core fans? As much as I like to rail against Gary Bettman, it's the owners who keep him in place, and that includes the six existing Canadian teams. Why should we reward these shortsighted idiots with $400mil. of free money?

   As far as I'm concerned, overexpansion is the main problem with the NHL today, anyhow. I'd much prefer to see six teams go out of business permanently than add six teams to Canada (if I ran the league, that would mean killing Florida, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Atlanta, Nashville, and Phoenix, then move Anaheim and either the Isles or Devils to Canada). There are only so many skilled players to go around, and there are too many fourth line NHLers who shouldn't be playing at the elite level. This thin talent pool contributes to dull, formulaic hockey, as the coaches are forced to develop strategies that accommodate the mediocre players. There's no room for creativity when you don't have enough players on your team who are capable of being creative. Similar concerns could be raised for the CFL, especially with existing import player rules.

   Unlike the "big four", I see the CFL as a cultural institution. I'm happy to see government money go to supporting one of the few uniquely Canadian sporting institutions we have. The CFL exists in a media market where huge emphasis is placed on being the biggest and best. Against the NFL and it's dollars and media exposure, that's a tough row to hoe.

   I guess, ultimately, my questions revolve around whether there is enough competition between cities for franchises to warrant any sort of NFL comparison. Ottawa has a stadium, it has the population, and it even maybe has the fan base with the right ownership. If they can make a successful go of it, perhaps there will be more interest.

   I think a better solution for building stadiums is the one that MLS, TFC, FIFA, and the various levels of government took with the construction of BMO Field in Toronto. By guaranteeing access to the facility for other levels of sport, it allows the taxpayers to see value in ways beyond having a team to cheer for. After all, a CFL season requires only nine home games. To get your money's worth, there has to be uses found to fill out the other 356 days in the year. If the city and province can profit from that, rather than team ownership, it adds up to the accounting making a hell of a lot more sense.

   As a side note, I'd also love to see a team in Halifax. I'm not sure about the viability of Nova Scotia from a dollars and cents perspective, but to have a national league without representation from an entire region is frustrating.

   All the best,

   Graham

3. by JW
   4 days ago

   Now that the offense is done, it is time for the defense :

   http://bleacherreport.com/articles/284160-the-almost-all-time-tennessee-titans-defense

4. by Rob
   4 days ago

   Yea I tried my best to find one in our system. Great story.

   -Rob

5. by Joe
   14 days ago

   Steve,

   Have you read this?

   http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4592192&name=lebrun_pierre

   "Who wants to be an owner?
   Remember this name: Bill Gallacher.

   He's a businessman from Calgary, Alberta, with lots of dough, and he's let it be known through the grapevine he might be interested in owning an NHL team.

   In September, as chairman of Athabasca Oil Sands Corp., he sold assets to China worth $1.9 billion. He's got a lot more money now and he's a huge hockey fan with season tickets to the NHL's Flames and WHL's Hitmen in Calgary.

   Gallacher owns the Western Hockey League's Portland Winter Hawks, but I'm told he's looking to get into the big game, as well. The NHL, I'm told, knows of Gallacher's interest, but has yet to officially meet with him.

   And know this: he's not looking for a fight a la Jim Balsillie; Gallacher wants to go in the front door to the NHL. He's not looking to uproot a team from somewhere in the U.S. and move it to his native Canada.

   Gallacher has apparently hired someone to help him study the NHL landscape and advise him on his next move. There are a handful of possible teams for sale, starting in Phoenix, but one team to perhaps keep an eye on is Dallas, where Stars owner Tom Hicks may want to sell at some point as he deals with his huge financial obligations with the Liverpool soccer team. The Stars are not for sale right now, but keep an eye on that one."

   What can you tell me about Gallacher? is he respected unlike Basille?

   He's from Calgary but AB can't support THREE teams right? What would be his motive and where would his owned team be playing?

   Any chance he moves the Stars to Winnipeg and runs them there while operating out of AB? I'm only saying this because 1. its geographically closer than Hamilton which would be further for him and 2. Quebecor seems to have the inside trade on Quebec possibily getting another team as we've discussed.

   I'd love to see the Stars move to MB even though they seemed to target Atlanta. Either would be fine with me if it means Winnipeg getting back into the NHL but personally I'd want to see Atlanta go first. Losing the Stars would eliminate the TX market which would be good from a traditionalist standpoint that I support yet, it would just create a new attractive bidder for a future team that could move there instead of maybe moving to Ca. in the future like Hamilton or Quebec so from that standpoint I do like TX losing their team.

   In the end I'd love to see Phoenix move to QC which eliminates AZ as an NHL market, someone move to MB Atl would eliminate nontraditional GA or Dallas would eliminate TX and maybe the other team move to Hamilton if Florida doesn't beat them to it first.

   Haven't really heard much Stars chatter other than this and the known fact that owner Tom Hicks is hard up for Cash having already took out a big loan on the Stars ($250M or something like that)

6. by Chris
   15 days ago

   Thanks for the note :) I responsed here:

   "It all depends on how much more Charles Wang is prepared to lose money. The survival of the Islanders depends on a new arena and Wang's patience and time are running out with endless negotiations with Long Island officials."
   Nassau County Long Island wants this- the people have already spoken clearly and loudly about that. And they are going to get it, IMO. But even if they didnt, if the Isles move it is going to be to Queens. See, you have to consider the Isles TV rights, they are the most lucritive in the entire NHL. NOBODY is giving that up.

   "Bettman has urged a new arena and allowed Wang to play an exhibition in Kansas City to move things along. The Kansas turn-out was disappointing..."
   Disappointing for THEM, yeah. But for the Isles? Why? Why doesnt their attendance reflect on the Kings, who are the ones who have connections there in the first place? Why does whatever goes on in Kansas City have ANYHTING to do with the Isles? It simply doesnt. Their poor attendance in KC simply helped support the assertion that they still cannot support hockey. I dont know OR care if that is true, but that is what it looked like.

   "...a Quebec franchise with a new arena and sure sellouts would be just what Wang wants if he can't reach a new arena deal."
   Charles Wang is an Islander, he is not some guy who bought the team because he wanted a hockey team- he didnt know anything abaout hockey back then. He bought the team to help Long Island and to develop on Long Island. And thats what the guy is going to do. He owns property and has developed in Suffolk and Queens before- the two neighboring counties whose officials have stated that the Isles should come there if things do not work out in Nassau. Brooklyn has said so, as well. The NY Islanders are going to remain the NY Islanders... and all of the counties I just mentioned are ON Long Island. :)

7. by Svyato Rovenchuk
   15 days ago

   Well we will see about that. I do think that Canada should get another team, whether it's Quebec or Hamilton, or whatever we deserve that team. Everyone knows that hockey is a Canadian sport and yet look at the ratio of Canadian teams to American. For every one Canadian team there are 4 American ones. The thing that's worse is they have all the top teams like Detroit, Pittsburgh, Washington. The only team we can actually put our bets on are the Flames(imo). Every other team is almost a sure lock to be out by the second or third round.

8. by Tobi
   16 days ago

   I really appreciate your responses.

   I find it crazy that money arguements are bandied about on what Canadians just can't afford to spend on collegiate sports. This considering how much Canadians will throw blindly at a pro hockey stadium without even a confirmed team. Or to build a MLS stadium.

   If Canadians spent as much seeding CIS football as their governments spends on ONE big stadium, they could have stability throughout CIS and many more self-sufficient university athletic programs offering opportunities to their citizens.

   I think it just shows how poorly managed sports in general can be up there. There is a lot of emotional decisions on spending of tax dollars on sports up there. (Not trying to be a smug American --- plenty of just as aggregious issues down here with sports and government too, lol!)

   I guess maybe you can just call CIS football's struggles "the legacy of the CFL".

9. by Joe
   16 days ago

   Steve,

   Conservative Canadian PM Stephen Harper came out today and said he "supports more teams in the NHL but doesn't want to get involved in poltical debate" I find it interesting that apparantly it was the FIRST question he was asked. That has to be a good sign.

   Harper says he wants more Canadian teams in the NHL

   http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gyWE6f090riS9mQjpZ_n7QDbzm5w

   1. How do you think this helps (or hurts as I'm not sure how popular or powerful he is) Quebec's chances at getting a team and funding an arena as $400M will be needed?

   Also, when you have time check this article out and tell me if you agree or disagree on it.

   David Staples: Quebec hockey plays the victim card

   http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/10/23/david-staples-the-nhl-and-quebec.aspx

   2. Also can you recreate for me the buzz when Ottawa and Tamapa got teams in 1992. Wierdly (or maybe strategically) one team went to the US while another in Ca. I think this was the plan to expand to as many new people as possible am I right?

   3. Also as with all expansion in any sport, who else was up for a team in 1991 when they likely did the selecting only to be not selected in the end? (who was Tampa/Ottawa's competition?, who were the losers?)

   4. Do you think its wierd that they chose to add yet another team to Ca (Ottawa?) I'd have thought all the teams that were there were either so old and established or relocated up there like the Flames were, not created via expansion. That seems like a U.S. concept good for trying new markets or reviving old ones. Why Ottawa at that time? Why Canada again? I am surprised (but glad they went with it)

   Joe

10. by Joe
    19 days ago

    Steve,

    Scott Burnside talks Canadian expansion with Paul Martin, Scott Gomez, Paul Stasny, and Mike Komisarek. Listen to what Komisarek says in particular with his comments on Florida, Phoenix etc.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/features/stateofplay click "Blame Canada" tab on right to hear the video clip.

    Let me know if you can't get it or what you think of it?

11. by Joe
    19 days ago

    Steve,

    Its pretty quiet on the Quebec front today for the first time in a week. (not sure if thats good news). keep me up to date with whats going on in Ca. in this regard as the media sucks here.

    Thanks for the article comments and input. You saw that Quebec had an NHL exhibition game in Sept. and it sold out (15,000 tickets in less than an hour right?) I linked it in my article. Anyway, that has to make KC's less than 10,000 look even worse.

    I replied to your comments via my Nordiques article but you can get it here too. It explains my reluctace on Hamilton.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/274964-nordiques-jets-whalers-oh-my-could-the-nhl-revive-historic-teams

    Would they (Hamilton) be your new #1 team or are you a Leafs fan first? Also do the people really want a team in Hamilton or is that all Basille and people rallying simply because its in Canada? Would he really be an asset to the league or a distraction/rival like Mark Cuban?

    Hereis all I found today. Should we read anything into it? :)

    Reebok remembers the Whale: New Hartford jerseys hit market

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Reebok-remembers-the-Whale-New-Hartford-jerseys?urn=nhl,197053

    Thoughts?

    Also I wanted to ask you, was there ever any talk in the past of any of the other Canadian teams moving to the U.S. at any point only to be saved at the last minute? I know of Edmonton to Houston in 1998 but you seem to follow the Senators. How are they financially? Also, I never hear about Vancouver or Calgary but I know Toronto is very, very strong and stable even though their product is average at best.

    What are we to read into the fact that Montreal was for sale? I know you corrected me on the fact they were for sale but I think you were trying to tell me the power that Quebecor has, not to mention the resources evidenced by their ability to even make a bid on the team in the first place, right?

    "You've misinterpreted the situation about Quebecor. What happened was that George Gillette, the owner of Montreal put the team up for sale and Quebecor, and Molson Breweries tried to buy it. When Montreal returned to Molson's ownership, Quebecor changed its plans and announced that it would seek to bring the Nordiques back to Quebec and has become the main investor for restoring the Quebec franchise."

    Maybe Quebecor and Molson should team up and secure a Nords return. What about Labatt Blue? I don't know any other corporations but there has to be some big ones that additionally love hockey.

    Joe

12. by Joe
    19 days ago

    Steve,
    here it is.

    In response to your last post: 2.. My guess would be

    1. Phoenix for obvious reasons
    2. Atlanta (if Winnipeg doesn’t get them first)
    3. Some other team-NYI/Florida etc.

    Check out my latest article I just wrote and let know what you think. There is quite a bit of info, speculation, links, and evaluation in there I’d like your opinion on including possible realignment.

    Nordiques, Jets, Whalers, Oh My! Could The NHL Revive Historic Teams?
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/274964-nordiques-jets-whalers-oh-my-could-the-nhl-revive-historic-teams

    I just read about the Kansas City >10,000 fan exhibition game that was reported today which I linked in my article above.

    KC falls below Quebec on list of NHL suitors?

    http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/2009/10/kansas_city_falls_below_quebec_on_list_of_nhl_suitors.php

    Because of this mention, you’d have to think they indeed are 2nd at best, with Quebec being first. They aren’t the only source to come out today and hint Quebec is first.

    Quebec topping list for NHL club?
    http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/rumors/post/Quebec-topping-list-for-NHL-club-?urn=nhl,196748

    As I wrote in my article, I bet that Bettman has a deal with Quebec to operate the Coyotes for 2-3 years until the arena is done in 2012 then its off to Quebec for them. It makes perfect sense as they dont have a lease to get out of unlike Atlanta.

    Here is a good article on the Islanders situation:

    Islanders to explore all options, including moving

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h52dEz-e97Ne9ydx68Hp0qff6QQgD9B41VR81

    8. from the last note. Can you give me a link where “They’ll get the funding and the Provincial Govt. has already pledged some money toward it, though not the sum that they have requested.” all I am saying is I hope you are right.

    Finally when you have time, here is my Gretzky article:

    The Great L.A. Kings Heist of ’88: Re-Evaluating The Gretzky Trade

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/272146-the-great-la-heist-of-88-re-evaluating-the-gretzky-trade

    I am suprised more people haven’t commented on it.

13. by Joe
    20 days ago

    Steve,

    I believe I successfully sent you a private message.

    Check your inbox on B/R top right of screen. Anyway, if it worked you should see a (1) next to inbox and don't fill out the "To" bracket just the subject and compose your message before you send it.

    If you didn't get it, I'll post it here or email you. I got more questions, links, and comments on the latest with repsonses to your latest reply.

    Joe

14. by Joe
    23 days ago

    Steve,

    I am having trouble sending you a private message. Could you send me one so I don't have to keep writing on these boards and filling them up? Thanks.

    Did you see the 10 AM press conference today with Mayor Labeaume unveiling plans for a new $400M arena to attact a future NHL team and hopefully the 2022 or 2026 Olympics? What are your thoughts on this?

    Quebec City to attract NHL team with new arena plans
    http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Quebec+City+attract+with+400M+arena/2110649/story.html

    I've read his critics think its poltical posturing as he's up for re-election next month but he says that isnt the case as A. he's already leading the polls and B. he was expected to win easily anyway. Who do you think the city would target? Winnipeg supposedly wants the Thrashers. My guess would be Phoenix as they are 1. the team in most trouble right now and 2. this arena gives Phoenix an out of Arizona.

    Phoenix has a new arena in Glendale so a new facility isn't the issue. What the issue is the bad phoenix economy right? So basically its not a matter of newer facilites why they are losing all the money its the fact no one can afford to go to the games as phoenix is the center of housing forclosure 101 as they've been hit especially hard. So basically the owners of the Coyotes (are there any with the NHL running it) can't threaten anything as its not only out of their hands but it isn't a building issue, its an economy issue that the people there have to just ride out but by then it will be too late. What I'm basically saying is there is no hope for the new thousand legit Phoenix fans right?

    Whether or not Quebec can actually afford this arena is another thing. I know that is where the corporate support, Quebecor, you were telling me about probably comes in. How reliable are they and what about more future sponsors so that we can be sure any future bid is solid? Labatt Blue? What else is big in Canada?

    Any chance the Montreal Canadiens help Quebec secure a team? They were sure covering the story well yesterday and now Vancouver Sun ran the story above. Do you see the 6 Canadian teams working together to get this done or is it basically up to each province and in this case city, since Quebec would now have two teams again?

    I think if this arena actually gets built, it will be bad news for one of those teams interested in moving since they will be able to use Quebec as a bargaining chip. Also, you don't build a 400M arena on a hope and prayer without getting something definate. My guess is they already have a suitor whose lease with their current city just needs to run out or in the case of Phoenix, the NHL just has to approve which Bettman wouldn't be in favor of otherwise he wouldn't have wasted his time meeting with Audut and Mayor Labeaume.

    In 1997 before the NHL even announced who was going to be awarded an expansion franchise which was going to be done in three parts-1998, 99, 2000, Nashville already built a $180M arena thus assuring themselves a winning bid. This is what Quebec is trying to do now and its smart as someone will take them up on it especially in this economy.

    What risk do you think Labeaume runs should he somehow fail to bring the Nords back? He'll probably win based on this hope but should he fail he'll be accused of playing with people's emotions for poltical gain and they will hate him and feel betrayed. How likely do you think it is that supposedly hockey-mad Quebec would approve the necessary funding? My guess is if there legit they will and its put up or shut up time for the voters and the provincial Gov't whom Lebeaume is going to ask for $175M from.

    ESPN didn't have anything about the Winnipeg or Quebec rumors yesterday but for the first time in a long time they did have a few hockey highlight segments and an interview with Barry Melrose but surprisingly it didn't come up. They just talked about a few good goals and a few games played that night. What is the Toronto media saying? Do you have access to Quebec's media? What are they saying?

    Also, is there anyway to email Aubut or the mayor of Quebec City voicing our support? The usual internet city search functions came up empty which isn't the case like most US Cities where everry city has a main page with how to contact local and governmental officals. Same for the Jets and maybe Mr. Thomson? As a fan, I feel pretty helpless and I want them to know there is support and they should do everything they can to make it happen.

    Joe

15. by Tobi
    23 days ago

    Thanks for the response regarding the boycott. So you really think a Canadian competitor to the NHL might be viable? I have had similar thoughts, but honestly I know little about hockey, so it was good to hear many of my ideas confirmed by a plugged in, lifelong hockey fan.

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