Dusty Sucks Eggs
Thanks for the add! Right back at you:D
First, that's one hell of a favourite athletes list you've got there. I figured Suwama would be in it though.
"My list is based on general talent, records, memorable moments, honors outside of their promotion, accolades within their promotion, reputation as a worker amongst their peers, connection with the fans, impact that they have left on the business, and their influence on the future generations of wrestling."
Ah, an extremely difficult list to compile then. I was assuming in ring work at first when I saw inclusions like Dynamite Kid and Shawn Michaels, but then I saw Flair and exclusions like Benoit and Perfect which of course led me to believe that this was total compilation of talent list.
"Shawn Michaels is a multi-time PWI Match of the Year winner (1994-1996, 2004-2010), WWE Match of the Year winner (1997, 2008-2010), and 2X recipient of 5 Star Matches (1994 and 1997) as well as the Match of the Year winner (1994, 2008-2010) by Wrestling Observer. He is a multi-time tag team, mid card, and world champion in every promotion that he has performed in. I already talked about his standing amongst his peers. He has been dubbed “Mr. WrestleMania” by the WWE and the fans. He has raised the bar for wrestlers of this generation and future generations as far as creating a “WrestleMania moment. To question his wrestling ability is crazy to me. Michaels performs his move set perfectly and tells a flawless story in the ring. You will need to elaborate more on how exactly he isn’t the complete package or not a top 5 wrestler as far as ability."
He's a magazine darling and an internet favourite. Doesn't mean much if you can't back it up.
As a talent I found him vastly overrated on the mic. Wouldn't be in my top twenty or even top thirty. As overrated on the mic as Scott Hall was.
As a wrestler, he could sell and pull a good match out of just about anyone, but his offence was weak and he never had the timing or precision that a Bret Hart, Mr. Perfect, or a Dynamite Kid had in the ring. It's all about perception and Shawn Michaels was a small man with a set of moves and ability that suited the performer but didn't come across as particularly inspiring or dramatic or even painful.
Never thought much of his timing.
Here, take a look at these matches:
Just a few of Bret and Perfect's work. Look at the timing and precision that they worked here. They paid so much attention to the small things to make everything work. Bret takes deep breathes after every match, selling the fact that it was an exhaustive effort, look at those open hand shots and Perfect's pacing. I'd rate these two, Steamboat and Benoit over Shawn Michaels as far as wrestling goes.
As a complete package, I felt he was a flimsy baby face. Didn't suit him in his prime. His look was small and slight, he was even smaller than Bret without his long boots on and his build was lighter. Relatively handsome for the time but generic long haired blonde look that guys like Lane, Eaton, Perfect, Flair and the Von Erichs had long before him.
Can't take away from him certainly being a top ten in ring worker and a charismatic talent who could bring that level of hype and charisma into the ring, something Bret and Benoit usually struggled to do.
"Dynamite Kid as far as just in-ring technical wrestling skill is concerned can definitely be considered#1 or #2. Also considering his work in Stampede and Japan you could argue top 5, but he definitely had areas in which he lacked, especially in the department of charisma, records, and accolades. For whatever reason, he just never was afforded the benefit of being a main eventer in any promotion he worked for so the combination of my previous examples and this is why he landed where he did on my list."
You won't get an argument from me on this. Superb worker. He had a bad attitude and with his well documented drug problems I guess most top promoters felt he wouldn't be reliable.
"Jumbo is of course superior to Flair as far as in ring talent, and during Jumbo’s prime he was a breakout star from Japan, however he never reached the popularity that Ric Flair did Worldwide; and to me that is significant enough to bridge the gap between the 2. Granted I watched most of Tsuruta in retrospect because I didn’t start following wrestling until 1986, so during that time he was a tag team wrestler with Yoshiaki Yatsu, but I can still confidently say I put the Nature Boy over him."
Now that I understand the criteria you are basing this on I agree. I initially believed this was solely in ring talent and was shocked to see Flair over Jumbo.
"I am a huge NJPW, AJPW, All Japan Women’s, and GAEA Japan fan. During the time from 1987 to 1995 I believe that Japanese Wrestling was superior to United States wrestling, and I think that it is regaining that status now. We will definitely not see eye to eye on Chono. I think Chono is just an above average wrestler that has had the benefit of a good push as opposed to actually earning his place. Again that is just my opinion."
He had powerful friends, but I felt he earned that position and he himself never really had a strong run as a Heavyweight champion anyway. Injury stunted much of his skill and he became a rather prolific tag team worker after that. On the mat he was one of the best Japan offered. Course, he's still third for me, behind Kawada the beast and Fujinami.
Right now I think New Japan offers the best product in the world. Booking is simple, logical and well structured. No need for anything overly fancy, New Japan just gets the job done. Dontaku was a slightly disappointing show and I don't think DOMINION will be much better but it doesn't take away from the three consecutively great years New Japan has been booking.
"Like I said in my earlier comment, to me Hashimoto is an innovator of the martial arts/wrestling hybrid style of Inoki. His accolades and influence speak for itself and I personally think that he was the best out of The Three Musketeers. As far as Goto I agree. His heel run is what stood out to me too. I also agree about Tetsuya Naitō being better, but honestly I never liked Sakuraba as a Pro Wrestler."
Goto's heel work brought me into the New Japan fold. It was hard to follow Japanese wrestling in the '90s in my hometown so I relied on wrestling newsletters and magazines to bridge the gaps for me. For most of the 2000's I heard Inoki was experimenting with MMA and Pro wrestling and implementing a fusion, which needless to say, failed tremendously. THen I heard from a friend of mine who works with Ice Ribbon on the great work New Japan was turning out and I looked in to Goto and the rest is history.
Naito I feel, provided he stays healthy this time around, could be the next Tanahashi, given that Okada has taken the Nakamura role.
As for Sakuraba, I think Shibata and Nagata are better but he's gotten better with age and as a fighter, well, he's top class.
I am interested in your top 10.
So going by your criteria of accolades, memorable moments and all around skills, look, drawing ability and charisma, I'd have it like this:
Ric Flair - Never been a big fan but he fits the bill as far as highest accolades, innovation, charisma and memorable moments go.
The Great Mutoh - My least favourite of the Musketeers, but once again, he fits the bill as a total package of excellence.
Randy Savage - The look, the character, classic wrestling ability and style, charisma in boatloads and memorable moments in excess. As a wrestler he was rather good and mixed it up rather well considering his size. As a draw he was one of the best after Hogan. Probably the best after Hogan.
Ricky Steamboat - Best babyface ever, criminally underrated in the ring, very much over, has a huge number of accolades and titles to his name and had more than enough memorable moments to warrant a spot.
Tatsumi Fujinami - I think Japanese wrestling was at it's very best when he was on top of the pyramid. I think Kawada, Liger, Hashimoto and Chono all surpassed him in individual fields, but he was a package wrestler, he had it all.
Eddie Guerrero - Hybrid of technical and high flying wrestler and he perfected that style. Great experience, charisma, ability and a great face and heel.
Kurt Angle - After Randy Savage I don't I've ever seen such a perfect combination of wrestling ability, the look, mic ability, creativity and charisma in anyone else other than Kurt Angle. Had his WWE career gone on longer, he might have broken into my top five.
Bret Hart - Wrestling extraordinaire, underrated as a talker and had his own brand of ice cool charisma. Hard worker, safe, greatly experienced and incredibly decorated.
Jushin Liger - Best Super Junior and Junior Heavyweight of all time. Even better than Pillman. A man of dignity and incredible innovation, a great character which evolved several times in his career and a real trend setter.
Jack Brisco or Harley Race - This might be cheating, but I honestly can't choose. I think Race was more charismatic and a better talker, but Brisco set the bar and carried the flag for so long and so well.
Honourable mentions would be Misawa, Rogers, Rude, the Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Chono, Hashimoto and Inoki.
Wow?! You wanted to add me all this time? :) Im honored. Thank you my friend :)
And yeah dude, that's what its all about. Talk to as many people as you can! There are some really awesome people on here that you can meet :)
THANK YOU FOR THE FAN ADD :D :D :D
Yeah, but I dont actually watch it XD I just chose it because it was cool :P
Awesome! :D I just changed mine recently too :)
WOAH NICE PIC
lol Are they from NJPW? I'm not really following it.
Um OK I'll be honest. I didn't know half of them XD
Good to know :)
Favourite current wrestlers?