As the fans of West Virginia University's football program continue to get tossed around in the wake of Rich Rodriguez's departure from his alma mater and state he claims to love, there is a question that begs to be answered:
Would Michigan, which prides itself on employing only the classiest coaches in the industry, consider hiring Rich Rodriguez if they had to do it all over again?
Knowing what they know now, would Bill Martin, Michigan's Athletic Director, make that call to Coach Rodriguez on December 16th, if he knew that his future football coach was the lack-of-man he now knows he is?
I recently met a gentleman who attended the University of Michigan, a diehard football fan who graduated during the Schembechler days. When he learned of my connection with WVU, we began to talk about the ongoing saga of his new football coach.
His opening comment to me was, "I would be surprised if the U of M administration isn't completely disappointed and disgusted with their choice to replace Lloyd Carr now that they know who and what Rich Rodriguez is."
I would be surprised if this isn't the true feelings of most Wolverines.
What people must understand is that millions of personal dollars were raised 12 months ago specifically to help increase Rich Rodriguez's salary and keep him at WVU after he threatened to go to Alabama—plus millions more to improve the athletic program, a request of Coach Rod. Anyone who has a shred of compassion would understand that when hard-earned money is donated to a cause, the expectation is that the money will be put to good use.
In this case, the hard-earned money has been wasted on a cause that did not pay off.
Please don't be misled; we're not talking about a few dollars like that in which we donate to the local police department every year. We're talking millions.
Some individual boosters donated in excess of a million dollars to help keep, what WVU fans thought was, the future of the Mountaineers football program.
Not to mention the little matter of a four million buyout clause that was completely disregarded as a significant part of Rodriquez’s contract. The mere fact that anyone would completely disrespect the issue of upholding the integrity of a contractual arrangement that both parties agreed to, says a lot about his character and his reliability.
So, the question is, would the University of Michigan do it all over again, knowing what they know now? It's an interesting question. But one that continues to disturb many people involved.
72 comments Last one added about 1 year ago — Leave a Comment
Bryan McConnahea about 1 year ago
I'm not so sure it's the fact that Michigan only searches out the classiest coaches. Yes, the coaches they have hired in the past have exhibited that attribute and I'm sure they knew a little about their character before hiring them.
The point is, it seems Michigan hired Rodriguez without exploring his real character. But who knew? What kind of similar behavior did Rich exhibit at WVU before the hiring at UM? Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the people of WVU were in love with RR and he was obviously an extremely capable head coach.
It wasn't until after UM hired the guy that he exhibited sort of his hidden character if you will. Initially, he seemed like a good hire. Is all the things that are happening indicative of tenure at Michigan? Who knows? Maybe he goes on to become one of the most highly regarded coaches at Michigan.
Honestly for Michigan, they shouldn't use this period of extenuating circumstances to reconsider what seems otherwise like an excellent hire of a proven coach. In my opinion, when RR gets settled in, this WVU situation blows over, and he's got a couple years under his belt, then and only then can UM consider if they've made a huge mistake.
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tom michael about 1 year ago
i am just thankfu that UM got RR. I am a OSU fan, and now expect to win at least five more games with UM..RR will show his true colors, as he finally did at WVU> He has absolutely no loyalty to anyone , other than a few cheerleaders at WVU, and his ego. Rumors circulated that now that he has left wvu the cheerleaders will be available to date other people.LOL>>BUt UM , you got your hands full. a LLoyd Carr he isn't, so don't expect that, i myself, would love to have Carr at WVU. What gets me is that UM could not find one of it's own to take the job, so it sounds like a perfect match of RR and UM... I can't wait until MSU,ND,andOSU beats UM this coming fall. Pryor is going to OSU< and RR ran off your best qb.. only fitting... mountie
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
From what is known now, I (University of Michigan BA 1967, JD 1975) believe the hire was an excellent one. The relevant questions will be answered in the future: Can RR maintain the winning Michigan tradition? Can he continue to fill a stadium that can hold in excess of 112,000 fans, week after week? Can he continue to recruit athletes who generally will stay out of trouble and in some instances will distinguish themselves academically, professionally, and personally? Will he continue to generate the kind of public support that sees incredible attention paid to the bowl (any bowl) in which Michigan participates under his guidance? Will he win --- not at any cost --- but will he win?
Most of the "negatives" WVU people are crying over perplex me. I wonder how much of it simply reflects the "Hawaii Crab Syndrome." One of your boys has a chance to make it in the big time, and the rest of the crabs are trying to pull him back into the bucket. What I truly hope is that when RR decides to leave Michigan (and at his age and with what I hope will be his success, he surely will), we at Michigan wish him well and move on to continue the Michigan tradition of winning football with a new coach. What will really trouble me is if we engage in the kind of behavior that we have seen out of West Virginia the past few weeks.
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Joe D about 1 year ago
John, You are quite pretentious assuming that a move from WVU to UM is a step up. I did not attend either school, but have been to both Ann Arbor and Morgantown--believe me your assumption is not universally held. I would never wish a return to Ann Arbor, but would love to retire to Morgantown.
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KEN HILL about 1 year ago
John,
I feel compelled to respond to your comment. WVU is being portrayed as the "jilted ex-lover" which more than anything insults me to no end. In no way are the people and officials of WV trying to "pull him back in the bucket" as you put it. To the contrary, as a WV native now living elsewhere, we are very proud when one of our own makes a success of him or herself. John Corbett, Brad Paisley, Jennifer Garner and the list is endless. RR would have been on the "we are proud of him" list had he demonstrated just a little integrity and handled his departure the right way, with truth and honesty. If he took the Alabama job last year, I would say that almost everyone would have become Alabama fans. Instead he lied to his employer, he lied to his players and some coaches, and he lied to the fans.
Its not about RR leaving WVU....good for him. Its much more than that and I hope you can see beneath the surface before you dive, because sometimes its shallow and people get can get hurt. Think about it.
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Robert Kann about 1 year ago
John,
Its quite obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. West Virginia University, the administration, the governor nor the fans have done anything to Rich Rodriguez. He simply let his ego get in the way. He thought that he could go to Michigan and become a hero and be so on top of the pile, that no one could touch him no matter what he did. Botton line is this. Rich signed a contract. The contract stated that if he left before a given date, he would owe West Virginia University 4 million dollars. He thought that because he was now getting a job at Michigan, he was way to important for anyone to go after him. However, the hillbilly's of West Virginia, (which I am one, even though I have not lived there for over 30 years), did not roll over and let him get away with it. He is a cheat, he is a fraud, he let his agent feed him crap that has gotten him into trouble and now he is trying every way he can to blame West Virginia. Rich, you are about to find out what Mountain Mamma Justice is all about. Years ago someone told me something that I never forgot. "Never let your mouth, get your ass into something that your feet can't get you out of" Well Rich, I do believe that this has come to pass.
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James Stanley about 1 year ago
You people just don't seem to understand that RR made a very strong commitment to his alma mater and home state last year when everyone of influence went to bat for him and got him more $ and many other things he desired to keep him from going to U of Alabama. He signed a contract extension and told everyone "I will be here at WV as long as you will have me" and then 2 months after signing his contract...he's gone! He did not hold up his end of the contract or his word. The plain and simple truth is that he lied to everyone and then breached his contract with WVU. I am an alumni of WVU and I am VERY HAPPY that he is no longer the coach. He may be a great coach, but his honesty and integrety make him a horrible person. Best of luck to MU...you will definitely need it when dealing with RR.
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
James, James, James. Poor James! Move on. There is more going on here that you reveal. You're right. I do not understand.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Well said James. Most of the UM fans who post on these forums are so blind to the facts. I love it when someone like Mandel, Maisel, Dodd or the countless other no-talent internet 'columnists' refer to us as 'West Virginia'. What does that mean? Is everyone who supports UM reffered to as 'Michigan'? Rich could have avoided most of this mess, just by making the first payment (1.3m). He and his team of lawyers then would have had a year to argue about e mails, verbal agreements, upgrades that are not being completed, etc., I would imagine that if he stood up and told everyone who supported him that he is just ready for a new challenge at a storied program such as UM, that over 50% of the people despise him currently, would have helped him reduce the buyout. He's just such an immature, egotistical person, that he did not consider these options. Guys like 'John' above are so clueless as to the real situation. They are so bent on defending a man that they don't even know. They know, deep down inside, that Michigan just made a decision that reduces them to 'win at any cost' / SEC status....and they can't stand it.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
John, John, John. The superior intellect that is John. Buzz off. You could never understand.
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Anonymous,
Correct! I can never understand. But, I will not "Buzz off." I get too much of a kick reading the crap you folks throw out in these comments. Crap that is clearly not based on much intellect, superior or otherwise.
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Ryan T about 1 year ago
See John, the problems with your degree qualifications is that they are from Michigan. Go somewhere else and talk old man. Did they actually give degrees out then?
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Ryan, you suffer from all the deficiencies of youth, the greatest of which is NO memory or sense of history. My degrees from Michigan stacked up pretty well against most others when I received them, and continue to measure up pretty well. Do a little research and you'll understand this. Beyond that, the degrees are not the issue. I stated them so anyone would clearly understand that I speak with considerable bias. I admit it. But given the trend of these posts and comments, most of you folks need a little something from someone who is not obsessed with hatred, much of which is jelousy based. Degrees are quite beside the point. The real question is whether reaction to RR's hiring is way out of proportion to its importance --- to WVU and to U of M.
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Ryan, you suffer from all the deficiencies of youth, the greatest of which is NO memory or sense of history. My degrees from Michigan stacked up pretty well against most others when I received them, and continue to measure up pretty well. Do a little research and you'll understand this. Beyond that, the degrees are not the issue. I stated them so anyone would clearly understand that I speak with considerable bias. I admit it. But given the trend of these posts and comments, most of you folks need a little something from someone who is not obsessed with hatred, much of which is jealousy based. Degrees are quite beside the point. The real question is whether reaction to RR's hiring is way out of proportion to its importance --- to WVU and to U of M.
(My second try for better spelling; these old fingers on this "old man" sometimes don't respond as I wish them to.)
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Joe D about 1 year ago
John, Did you study contract law at UM?? These people are making a point that transcends RR--it is about personal integrity. I am a lawyer just like you and I rue the day when contracts and integrity no longer matter. What will the practice of law be like then?
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tom michael about 1 year ago
one thing for sure, a Lloyd Carr , rr is not. Classless, disloyal , ego driven idiot. Am i a WVU fan? Well, not really, i have good insight into peoples personalities, and RR fits the bill. He wanted total control at wvu, he wanted the administration to hand over the keys to wvu athletics. Well , they didn't, maybe they should have, Pastilong is a moron, but RR could me more danger. UM will find out, RR won't be there more than three years, his ego can't take it. UM will be a far cry to what he thought it would be.If he doesnt go pro, he will head south where good football is played. If he were serious last year, he should have taken the Alabama job, it offers allot more than UM. UM is too cold, too big, and too slow.Well, that's the story of the big ten isn't it, except for Illinois.WVU will leave rr alone once they get the four mil. until them , i hope they character bash, and humble him and UM... It's a shame UM can't find one alumni to take the basketball or football job, I guess it's a testiment to good ole UM pride.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
John, I will not get into a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Nice line, anonymous. But good lines don't change the outcome. You lose!
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Mike Sheridan about 1 year ago
John,
It has nothing to do with "jealousy." I know you UMers tend to see it that way, but it is plain wrong.
What do we have to be jealous of? Rod? We don't want him.
Michigan? You can have it.
Michigan football? Puleeze
Just about everybody in the state of West Virginia did something, personally, to help keep Rod in the state. We did all that was asked of us, and more. He promised he'd return our loyalty. And, if he'd left in some reasonable fashion, we'd wish him well. But instead, he did everything possible to burn our team, our University, our fan base on the way out the door. He needs to pay the money so we can all put it behind us.
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Mike and all of the rest of you: yea, you're probably correct. Michigan and its lousy, no-count football program should probably go back to square one and begin its search for a new football coach with something like the following:
Opening for the head coaching position at a large, academically prestigious public Midwestern university with the winningest tradition in the history of collegiate football. Expectations that this tradition will be continued are high, and therefore challenges among others will be:
To field high quality, competitive football teams, sufficient to continue a 30 + year streak of consecutive post season bowl appearances, one of which was for a national championship;
To field high quality, competitive football teams, sufficient to continue to fill a football stadium with the largest seating capacity of any football stadium in the country (107,000+ stated capacity). Note:
• this stadium was host to the largest crowd ever to watch a college football game (112,118);
• of the 37 most highly-attended games, all but one took place at the stadium of this university.
• this team has led the nation in attendance 25 of the last 26 years and boast a streak of 208 consecutive home games with at least 100,000 fans. at home.
• this university is remodeling its stadium to add at considerable cost (without diminishing the stadium’s seating capacity) luxury boxes to be rented to distinguished alumni and other citizens interested in seeing the winning tradition of its football team continued.
To field these high quality, competitive football teams without violating either the letter or the spirit of all NCAA, Big Ten, and University requirements and guidelines governing intercollegiate athletes and athletics.
If you feel you are qualified for this position and are interested in taking on the challenges presented, you may submit an application letter and resume, setting forth your qualifications and required salary and compensation package and indicating any other specific requests you may have as a condition of your employment. Note: starting salary will most likely be equal to the beginning pay for the lowest paid associate professor at our School of Education or our School of Music, but that is negotiable given the low pressure atmosphere associated with this position.
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Mike Sheridan about 1 year ago
You might want to add: "Applicant must be available for employment."
Or else, "University will compensate the successful applicant's former employer for damages incurred due to breaching applicant's contract." But, of course, that could be problematic, as you'd be admitting an intent to subborn breach of contract, right up front.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
As a UM alum, I think Desmond Howard said it best:
A Michigan Man should be coaching Michigan...
Bill Martin dropped to ball by not waiting to Les Miles' regular season was over, and frankly he didn't have a plan B... they should have opened to search up to all former UM players and assistants who were interested, but our narcissistic AD wanted to control the search all by himself... I heard Bill Martin speak once, total A-hole, in love with himself and his resume...
DickRod has proven his true colors... mercenary, loyal to nothing but his bank account
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Hey Mike, that's exactly what RR is arguing. WVU is restricted to actual damages, if any, resulted from the breach, if any. They are not entitled to a penalty. How would you like to join RR's legal team?
And for you Anonymous, I have never been a big Martin man either. But as for Miles, forget about it. I have it on good word, he was a "no go" a long time ago. And, as I suggested in my hypo job posting, I would have approached the search differently, also, but then I'm just an "old man," only a little younger than Martin and would have been doomed to failure. I believe when all is said and done, RR will prove to have been a very good hire.
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Mike Sheridan about 1 year ago
John,
No, that's not what Rich is arguing at all. He is arguing that there was a top secret verbal agreement that made the liquidated damages clause that is clearly included in his contract null and void.
Actually, the $4million damage clause works against WVU, because it limits recoverable damages to that amount. If it weren't there, the University could go after a lot more money than that, and win!
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Mike, as I understand it, you have identified only one of RR's arguments. As with most of these cases, they are defended with multiple arguments, with one backing up another, and so on. Let me suggest that under standard contract law provisions (presumably applicable in WV, but who knows?), it would be very difficult for WVU to prove anything approaching $4million in damages. Now if they had to pay RR's replacement more than they were going to pay RR, you'd have a case. Otherwise . . . . ????? And a liquidated damages clause must be a good faith effort to assess as accurately as possible the damages that would actually result from a breach. Trust me, $4million was pulled out of somebody's *ss, and as such, faces a tough road to enforcement. But good luck! If I were WVU, I'd take the $1.5million and run.
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Mike Sheridan about 1 year ago
Is that where UM got the 4$million figure THEY put in his contract?
It'll be easy to document damages well in excess of $4million. No problem. Wait and see.
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Re U of M contract, probably. These athletic departments never learn. I think the buy-out provisions should be dropped entirely. As for documentation of damages, don't confuse lay documentation (which I am sure will be sufficient to keep WVU crazies howling for a long time) with legally sufficient proof of damages. I have learned, sometimes to my chagrin, that they are two different concepts. But, as the rest of us will do, I will "wait and see."
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
By the way, Michael Motta, how long do you want to keep this thing going. WVU fans are easy to provoke on this matter. Some of their comments actually focus on interesting issues. But most....?????? Hope you'll give me a cut of all the money you're making on this one.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Being from WV I'm glad he's gone, he has no loyalty to nothing except the dollar. Don't forget he left his team before their fiesta bowl game showing his true colors.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
I am a recent and extremely proud Michigan alum and am extremely excited about the Rich Rod hire. I think the university needs to come out and speak out for Rich Rodriguez to show him their support. They need to show the nation that a psychotic and very bitter ex-girlfriend (WVU) cannot get a good coach fired from an excellent job.
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MIKE WITT about 1 year ago
LOL THE GIRL FRIEND HERE IS NOT WVU BUT THE CHEER LEADING SQUAD
LOCK UP THE CHEER LEADER AN KEEP RITA AN KIDS IN WV. PERFECT LOLLLLLLLLLLL
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Long before RR resigned, there were plenty of West Virginians close enough to the situation to know just how insecure and petty RR was, and how divisive he was within the athletic department. But, these traits were ignored, along with certain reoccurring indiscretions of a personal nature, because he won football games.
Actually, the relationship went bad when RR lead the Mountaineers to the biggest choke job in the history of college football. The recently released emails indicate that when RR should have been devoting his full attention to preparing his team for its final game, he was focused on his own financial interests. Irreconcilable differences developed at time of that loss to Pitt.... nothing short of a national championship would ever repair the relationship, and RR knew it. It was fortuitous that the Michigan job came along when it did to enable him the opportunity to beat it out of town.
Could Michigan have learned of RR's character traits prior to his hiring? Yes, just come to Morgantown and ask around. But, of course, it's difficult to perform due diligence when you're raiding by stealth.
Down the road, when true identities are fully known, there will be but one Michigan man who will be happy about the RR hire.....Gary Moeller.
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Nino Colla about 1 year ago
Oh my god this again? Enough already.
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Detroit News Online
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Friday, February 1, 2008
U-M coach Rich Rodriguez countersues West Virginia
Fred Girard / The Detroit News
Rich Rodriguez went on offense Friday -- not on the football field, but in federal court, where he filed a counter-suit against his former employer, West Virginia University.
The university broke so many promises, Rodriguez' lawyers wrote, and so slandered and even endangered Rodriguez, that the court should limit his potential damages to no more than $75,000, not the $4 million the university is seeking.
Rodriguez also named as a defendant in his counter-suit the West Virginia University Foundation Inc., which funnels money from boosters to the schools sports programs.
The bitterly worded counter-suit was filed as part of Rodriguez' first response to the lawsuit filed by the university within days of Rodriguez' resignation Dec. 19.
After his departure, Rodriguez claims, the university made statements and released documents in such a way as to guarantee "enraging and inciting certain fans and causing them to make threats against (Rodriguez), his family and his property."
"Some of the threats were carried out," the counter-suit says, "wherein defendant's mailbox was destroyed, nasty signs were put in his family's front gate, and in addition he had been told his family basically will be unable to sell their house for its true value because no one would want to purchase this house that was owned by a 'traitor.' "
In his response to the university's suit, Rodriguez states that he is not responsible for the $4 million buyout clause in his contract, because he was "fraudulently induced" into signing it.
The university itself was in "material and substantial breach" of several terms in the contract, Rodriguez's lawyers wrote in the 27-page document, and to try to collect the $4 million now represents a clear attempt to "smear the image of (Rodriguez) in a spiteful retaliation for his forced resignation."
Rodriguez said he had been promised facility upgrades, more money for assistants and his own website, but received none of that. The university claims it fulfilled all its promises.
In new arguments, Rodriguez's lawyers said the university's suit was not authorized by its own board of governors -- although they are the only list plaintiffs in the suit; and that it properly should have been brought by the foundation that manages the school's money. The foundation did not join the suit, Rodriguez' filing claims, because it is a "private entity (that) keeps secret from the public the agreements and arrangements that it has with donors to provide funds."
The counter-suit asks that the foundation's records be ordered opened and audited.
Donor dollars may be the undropped shoe in the lawsuit. Rodriguez had access to, but not control over, a private pool of booster money called the 1100 Mountaineer Club. As his relations with the university soured late in 2007, he tried to obtain records of the fund, which he thought stood at $350,000, only to find a balance of $150,000. Neither side appears anxious to reveal the club's transactions in open court.
U-M officials have made it clear that Rodriguez will not be allowed to operate any such fund there. He will be paid $2.5 million by U-M this year, plus bonuses and camp income.
On Tuesday Rodriguez filed a $1.5 million line of credit with the Federal District Court for the Northern District of West Virginia, good for 90 days, cashable any time the university agrees that's all he owes. It was drawn on the Bank of Ann Arbor, where his new boss, Michigan Athletic Director Bill Martin, is chairman of the board.
Rodriguez also argued Friday that the suit is being heard in the right venue -- federal court -- rather than the county circuit court where the university believes it should play out.
Rodriguez's attorneys say that, because of the vitriolic feelings left after Rodriguez's abrupt departure to become head of Michigan's football program, a fair trial in a local court would be impossible.
The response does admit, however, that Rodriguez did not advise his bosses in writing of any complaints until Jan. 10, well after his resignation. His contract calls for such written notice, and gives the university 90 days to fix any problems.
Rodriguez argues against that requirement in the response, saying that at a meeting with his bosses Dec. 15, they "unequivocally stated that they had no intention of curing said breaches."
The response also said the university's incoming president, Mike Garrison, had reassured Rodriguez that Garrison did not believe in buyout provisions, and stated that, "If a dispute occurred, the lawyers would get together and split the difference."
You can reach Fred Girard at 313-222-2165 or fgirard@detnews.com
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Michael Motta about 1 year ago
Maybe if he would have left like a man and not a coward, his mailbox would still be in tact and his house would have held its value. This has nothing to do with WVU and the lawsuit. It has everything to do with his lack of integrity and honesty. This guy is living in another world.
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John Rutledge about 1 year ago
A Michigan Alumnus here (76bus). I agree with the content of the article...RR is an embarassment to the University of Michigan and does not meet Michigan standards. I guess we must consider where he comes from...Red Neck WV. He is acting no differently that the WV Administration...frankly, they deserve each other. Neither has any class...but remember it's all about WV.
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Michael Motta about 1 year ago
Spoken like a true ignoramus. How you could say that the WV Adminstration is acting in a classless manner, just shows how ignorant you are to the situation. And, that's ok if you don't know the whole story. But, when you don't have all the facts, you should not be posting comments about it. Why should WVU not pursue its legal rights? RR signed a contract...and in that contract there was a $4.0M buyout clause that says if he leaves before August 2008, he must pay the University 1/3 of the $4.0M and the remainder over a 2-year period. Tell me John, what is not clear in that and why should the university not pursue him for what he committed to? Furthermore, why the 'redneck' comment? What does this have to do with the subject of this legal matter?
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tom michael about 1 year ago
the fact is, um and rr deserve each other, um is about as classless as rr.
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Hey, there are two "Johns" writing here. I'm the guy who posted the Detroit News article, and I have nothing to do with the guy who wrote the "Red Neck" comment (which I too think is despicable). The "despicable" John is completely wrong in one respect. RR was and will be proven to be a great hire for Michigan. As for Michael, he is so hung up on his anger, his analysis of contract law requires a second opinion.
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Jill Zundell about 1 year ago
Geez . . . a grown man, multi-millionaire, forced to both sign his contract & to resign . . . wow, he acts as if he's 10! Interestingly, he did have second thoughts after the first of his three letters of resignation, but WVU had had enough of both him & his agent, Mike Brown.
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Jill Zundell about 1 year ago
Geez . . . a grown man, multi-millionaire, forced to both sign his contract & to resign . . . wow, he acts as if he's 10! Interestingly, he did have second thoughts after the first of his three letters of resignation, but WVU had had enough of both him & his agent, Mike Brown.
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Jamie Freiheit about 1 year ago
Hey Boys....this is football, not the gaddammed Young & the Restless. RR knows football.
He may have all the class of a Spam sandwich.
His offence will bring a new level of success to U of M
He needs to be given a chance.
Do all of you honestly think that Carr is not going to have a leash on RR.
He would not have "retired" to let some Bozo ruin the proud tradition of Wolverines Football!
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Jill, we only need it once.
Jamie, you may have a point. That scenario may be why Les Miles really never considered the job.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
There is no loyalty today, just look at Car Dealers and Bally's Total fitness...BOTH are dishonest professions and are worst than the lowest job in the world. They honor contracts only when it benefits them or their company.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
As a UM fan, I think Rodriguez should just pay up. A contract is a contract. This is like a divorce court, he's acting like a child, but it works both ways. WVU is doing the same thing back. This just drags everyone down - not a good representation of the state of WVU. I mean you want to build up the states image.
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tom michael about 1 year ago
Do you actually think the hiring for RR improves the image of UM. Where is the UM pride? Can't UM hire an alumni to coach either football or basketball. Seems your alumni can see the UM pride, and realize what the rewards of a coaching position at Um really are...Well , just ask Mr. Carr what he thinks, you run him off, and he certainly was a class act, a great coach. I will take great pride in watching OSU,ND,MSU beat UM this coming fall. GO BUCKS..
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Roger Hayhurst about 1 year ago
I think that a lot of the michigan fans are missing the point. In West Virginia we are very proud, we dont have much we are blue color and work for everything we have and I will comment more on that in a bit. But first Lest talk about The WV program, Now granted Michigan has had more success in the past but trust me, WV is not the flare up team that you would compare to a Boise State or Hawaii. other than a few down years we are normally in the top 25 and we have gone undefeated twice. in 88 and 93. So whenever we hear that this is a step up, of course we are going to be offended, you are taking something we love dearly and saying that yours is better and ours will never be as good.
Now, If you dont know anything about RR I will tell you a few things. First of all I went to the same high school he did, a few years later but the same school none the less. His father was a coal miner just as mine was. He was never rich and worked for everything he got and his family still lives down the road. The reason I go into all of this is because RR wasnt just a coach to us, he was our brother, an uncle maybe, for those of us young enough at times he was seen as a father figure. The point is we dont have much so maybe we were vicariously living through him. In our eyes it could have been any of us that was in his position, it could have been our brother, our uncle or our father, Maybe even ourselves. So when it is trivalized by him or anyone saying it was just another job we are hurt and insulted. To think that he had the opprotunity to live a life that most of us in the mountain state would kill for, the head coach at WVU. There are some of us that go to the spring game simply for the fact that we get to walk onto the field and stand shoulder to shoulder with these guys.
So the Psycho Ex Girlfriend analogy isnt accurate at all. Must of us arent upset about him taking another job. It was the fact that he stood up in front of all of us, his family, his friends and his fans and lied. If everything he is saying is true that there has been a power struggle all year and he hasnt been happy then he took our trust, he said "I will be here as long as you will have me." He said this while he was supposedly being forced out and forced to sign a new contract.
If RR would have came out and said, I have spoke with the UM and they have made me an offer that I am considering, I will coach the Fiesta Bowl and then I will discuss this during the off season. After much consideration I have decided to take the UM coaching position. Would we have been upset? of course we would have, but we would have wished him luck and Probably supported him along the way. None of us will ever blame someone for making a decesion that best suits their family, but we will blame some one for the manner in which they carry out that decesion.
So UM Fans, In the last 50 years you have won exaclt 1/2 more NC's than we have and we have gone undefeated 1 more time than you. Do you expect us to roll over and say well you are right, UM is a better school, if you think that we are going to just supdue to the attitude that we are second rate then you have another thing coming.
This is the only thing that I will say that is Derogatory towards UM.....Yes we play UConn and Western Michigan and Syracuse. But you play Northwestern, Purdue, Indian and and Minnesota.
The Big 10 isnt nearly as impressive as you would like to think it is.
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Mike Sheridan about 1 year ago
Well said, Roger. This is one of the best pieces I have read on either side of this issue.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
I will recognize John and other UM boosters for their loyalty to their school and their attempts to downplay any wrong that Rodriguez may have committed. I do not agree with their characterizations of WVU and WV in general and an unimpressed by the "tradition" of any college (let alone UM's traditions) if they are not being practiced in the here and now. UM is desperate to recreate the past days of glory and thus wave their tattered flags in an effort to justify their opinions of themselves and their place in the world.
What I am disappointed by is this. Coaching football is a job, and just like any other job for pay, there are certain contractual obligations and responsibilities. We, as fans, are too willing to rationalize our sports hero's behavior and forgive what these people do, if it means our favorite team will win. Rodriguez did not live up to his obligations. WVU did... and continued to do so, as demonstrated by their $300,000 bonus payment to RR after he left for Michigan. Rodriguez should simply be held accountable for all the obligations of the contract he signed instead of trying to blame WVU for the behavior of a few disgruntled fans who harassed his home - which, by the way, his neighbors have stated they failed to see much of what RR has claimed happen. Bottom line is this... RR promised to do a job and failed to abide by the contract he signed. He can talk all he wants about secret negotiations and promises to drop 4 million dollar penalties but what is public record and contractually promised says different. The obvious conclusion here, is that RR should have lived up to his promises, bided his time, got his contract changed, and then left under better circumstances. A little patience on his part could have avoided all the fuss. After all, it's not like RR signed his contract on the spur of the moment. It is on record that he took 9 months and had several amendments made to his contract before signing it. Sorry RR and UM fans, but no matter how you want to paint the picture, the reality is that RR was given over 13 million dollars of rewards with his new contract and it wasn't enough to satisfy his ego. His emails to WVU prove that. Sure, he may not have got every little thing he wanted out of his employer (WVU), but who ever does?
All I can say is this whole affair shows the drastic need to reform college sports. College coaches want to be treated like pro sports coaches, but don't want to be limited by real business contracts, practices, and ethics. College boosters want to parley their contributions into business influence and opportunities. In the meantime, the impotent NCAA and other amateur/college sports keep a strangle hold on the futures of college player's opportunities but let coaches hold figurative guns to the heads of academic institutions, and even whole states. Petrino, and now Rodriguez are just the beginning. This kind of behavior is going to continue into the future if Rodriguez succeeds right now in claiming to be the hurt and offended bride... all the while sitting in a new job (with the same buyout clause) making .7 million dollars more than his old job.
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
No need to "justify." The record speaks for itself and we'll stand by it.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
That record is in the past John, and does speak for here and now... it speaks for other coaches and other players and other times. It's in the past. And yes, it is how you folks from Michigan "justify" this whole affair, else why mention it so often?
Rodriguez is unquestionably a talented coach. He isn't as good (or ethical) a man and the more evidence that comes out about his professional conduct at WVU seems to substantiate this. WVU does have its share of blame in this situation. It allowed the good old boy network to create an atmosphere where questionable conduct was condoned, if not encouraged. But lets not pretend that UM is any different. UM is on record for approaching Rodriguez directly, without reporting their fishing expedition to WVU. An ethical breach if there ever was one. Sorry John, but don't sit there and act all high and mighty about "tradition" and "records" without admitting to what UM has done to get back to their winning "tradition" after more than a few, less than spectacular, seasons. The losses and back room, sneaking behind the back deals has now become part of your tradition too. You need to "stand by" that as well, or you will only be recounting part of your gloried tradition.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Sorry, let me correct a typo...
That record is in the past John, and does NOT speak for here and now... it speaks for other coaches and other players and other times. It's in the past. And yes, it is how you folks from Michigan "justify" this whole affair, else why mention it so often?
Rodriguez is unquestionably a talented coach. He isn't as good (or ethical) a man and the more evidence that comes out about his professional conduct at WVU seems to substantiate this. WVU does have its share of blame in this situation. It allowed the good old boy network to create an atmosphere where questionable conduct was condoned, if not encouraged. But lets not pretend that UM is any different. UM is on record for approaching Rodriguez directly, without reporting their fishing expedition to WVU. An ethical breach if there ever was one. Sorry John, but don't sit there and act all high and mighty about "tradition" and "records" without admitting to what UM has done to get back to their winning "tradition" after more than a few, less than spectacular, seasons. The losses and back room, sneaking behind the back deals has now become part of your tradition too. You need to "stand by" that as well, or you will only be recounting part of your gloried tradition.
And just to show that I am partisan...
WVU-89
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Those who are either old enough to know some of the past, or smart enough to study it, understand that there is an ebb and flow to history. What is past is future. We have seen it time and time again. 100,000 plus fans every home game is past, of course --- but as recently in the past as the fall of 2007. And trust me, it is in the future, also. The tradition is past, present, and future. You must develop an attention span greater than a lightning bolt.
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
A little more on the subject of the past and tradition.
The very arguments you are making I once made. As misguided as I may have been, I was once an ardent Michigan State football fan, and understandably so. My first interest was as an 8 year old kid in 1953 when the Spartans went to the Rose Bowl and won a thriller on January 1, 1954. Two years later my loyalty was cemented when the Spartan kicker Dave Kaiser booted a game winning field goal in the ’56 Rose Bowl with time nearly expired.
As a Spartan for life, I ran headlong into a number of my friends who were Michigan fans. As youngsters frequently do, we argued constantly during football season about which of our teams was superior. The constant Michigan argument was based on tradition and a record that extended over many years. My retort was much as yours: that’s old stuff; the tide has changed; the Spartans are now superior. (Remember --- if you can --- this was the era of Duffy Daugherty, the great 10-10 tie with Notre Dame, and a Spartan dominance of its cross-state rival that actually had Spartan fans shedding for a time their inferiority complex.)
I continued with that position until suddenly in the mid-60s the tide began to turn. Most people think it started with Bo Schembechler, but they forget the ’65 Michigan Rose Bowl victory and the fact that Bo beat Ohio State in ’69 with players recruited mostly by his predecessor. My timing was exquisite, as I went to Michigan in the mid-60s (academic superiority trumped football), received my undergrad degree in ’67, and started law school in ’68. I had no problem transferring my loyalties.
My point, if you have managed to stick around this long, is that years and years of tradition are a result of something other than antiquity. In the 1960s and ever since the same thing that produced the tradition I railed against in the 50’s and early 60s reasserted itself. This resurgence was no mystery for those who cared to consider it. That same fundamental soundness that produced the records of old simply took a brief respite. Something was needed to regenerate that excellence, and a school such as Michigan was bound to discover it.
Now to say that Michigan is currently in the same doldrums it was in during the 1950s and early 1960s is to miss a very important point. We went to a bowl on January 1, 2008 --- the 30th plus consecutive year we have done so (no one else is close) --- and defeated a very good football team.
As we are in a time of transition, Michigan may not have the year next year we are accustomed to, but don’t bet on it. In any event, whether it takes one year or two, we’ll be back. And Rich Rod will be the stimulus to make it happen. Sure, there are plenty of Michigan haters out there (Spartans, Buckeyes, and now West Virginians) who would like nothing better than to see Michigan’s bowl streak broken. What I hear from them, however, are more like prayers than soundly based predictions. Why? Because deep down all of those haters know Michigan is not going away and will soon, if not next year, be rattling around among and battling against the nation’s powerhouses.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Did Rich ever cash his bonus check, the one from the extension?
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Adding to the above question:
The extension that he argues is invalid.
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tom michael about 1 year ago
For sure, UM athletic dept. is a group of total losers. UM is nothing but losers. Is there a UM alumni that wanted to coach for this second class institution? NO>>>>> Ask Les Miles. He sees right thru the garbage of UM and he played and graduated there. Who ever that idiot president is, she must be a witch , because rumor has it , she parked her broom on the outskirts of Toledo earlier in DEC> UM has absolutely no pride, class , or integrity, and add RR, and you have a matched set... ASU sure did put one on Um at the big house....LOL>> I have now become a huge OSU,ND,and MSU fan, in fact, i like anyone who beats UM... And Beilein,,,LOL,, ,you didn't get what you thought did you,,, worst start in school history?LOL... i love it, i can't get enough of you losing. You will never lose enough games for me.....GO BUCKEYES...
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
I can think of but on other sports franchise that produces hatred equal to that of Michigan: the Yankees. Pretty good company. Bo Blue!
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Ironic that you mention the Yankees, John. I hold the opinion (and I think many others share it) that the Yankees only key to success is money. Throw enough money at a situation and 9 times out of 10, the outcome is very predictable.
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Yea, you're correct Anonymous. And that's why I continue to site certain facts about Michigan as follows:
• the largest seating capacity of any football stadium in the country (107,000+ stated capacity). Note:
• a stadium that hosted the largest crowd ever to watch a college football game (112,118);
• of the 37 most highly-attended games, all but one took place at Michigan's stadium;
• a team that has led the nation in attendance 25 of the last 26 years and boast a streak of 208 consecutive home games with at least 100,000 fans at home;
• a university that is remodeling its stadium to add at considerable cost (without diminishing the stadium’s seating capacity) luxury boxes to be rented to distinguished alumni and other citizens interested in seeing the winning tradition of its football team continued.
Simply put, that means money and continued success or a damned good chance at the same.
Also please note the following article, just for passing interest:
"Michigan heads list of top schools for pros: Wolverines rank best for turning out professional athletes"
You can find it at:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22998158/
Now it seems to me that Michigan will continue to attract top quality athletic talent if the right people are in place. We believe that both Rich Rod and John Beilein fit that description. (With J. B. it's just a matter of time.) Those who are trumpeting U of M's demise are a bit premature. But let them hope and pray.
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tom michael about 1 year ago
michigan sux and anyone sux who likes michigan, and the stadium will lose capacity and will no longer seat the most idiots
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Roger Hayhurst about 1 year ago
You guys still dont get it, This has little to nothing to do with Michigan. We dont doubt the prestige of Michigan, Although the puffy chests about how great the Big 10 is a little over exagerated. This has to do with things that RR did and said. We have no ill will towards michigan, Sure while RR is there we would like to see you lose every game. But as soon as he leaves we will go right back to not caring what you do and who you play unless it is WV in a bowl game.
I do think to compare yourself to the Yankees is a bit arrogant. Dont be so cocky to think that people hate you that much. If you compare it to the yankees then the only ones that hate you as much as you think the whole country hates you would be OSU posing as the red sox. The rest of us, although we will watch the OSU/UM game because it is an interesting rivalry couldnt care less about it. Well unless of course you work for ESPN and then you have to act like it is the only game during the season.
We dont Hate Michigan, We hate the way that RR treated us on the way out of the door and as far as belin is concerned. I hope he does great at UM. He was a great coach that put us on a national stage. He never once said "WV was his Dream Job" or that "He will be there until the end of his career." These are things that RR said to WV, only weeks before he left and after signing a contract extension/. The only issue we had with him was the buy out, but that was negotiated in a classy manner and paid.
So in closing, Get off your high horses a bit. The greatest mark of a champion is Humility and lately The UM fans havent shown much. If you know anything about the WV Ohio border dispute we would love to be able to support you. But as of right now with RR at the helm we cant and wont.
We are well aware of your History, The National Championships, although you have had exactly .5 of them since 1947. But thats .5 more than we have. The Bowl streak, Beating FL last year. Because of the RR situation we probably know more about UM than any other school. The fact that you constantly brag about your accomplishments makes it Eaay to hate you and easier to hate RR.
In closing, maybe you shouldn't worry so much about who is "Hating on you" and maybe you should let your new coach know that he should do anything he can to make this mess go away because it isnt making any of us look any better. And trust me we are saying the same thing to our AD...lets just move on and get down to the business of Terell Pryor and the OSU buckeyes Romping on RR's new look WOlverines next year.
Ohh and by the way, Defenses our figureing out the spread we saw that this year. Good luck with that and if you dont know what a bubble screen is, learn it cause you will see it A LOT!
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
Worry about who is hating us? Ha! We bask in and love it. It motivates us. The more haters the better. There are enough of (present students and alumni) to provide enough loyal and loving fans to fill those 100,000 plus seats every home game and to travel well to any bowl Michigan is invited to and accepts.
And for tom:
The capacity is getting smaller? Wrong! The original plans for the boxes would have reduced the seating capacity. U of M alums would not hear of it. So they went back to the drawing board, and under the new plans, they will not only be adding the luxury boxes, but will be increasing the capacity for the rest of the stadium as well. Also, should anyone try the Tennessee approach of a few years ago --- placing a few temporary seats in the stadium to get a capacity above the Big House --- don't even think about it. Thanks to the foresight of another West Virginian (Fielding H. Yost) about 80 years ago, U of M Stadium was build on a foundation that would allow, at much less cost than anyone else could even dream of, expansion to something in excess of 150,000 seats.
The Big House is the biggest, has been the biggest for some time, and will continue to be the biggest during my life-time.
In fact, I have a theory on why a couple of coaches turned down the U of M job --- too much pressure to keep the Big House full. Just think, Les Miles can look up in the stands at LSU week after week and glory at 90,000 plus fans. In the Big House, such a crowd would represent a failure. If it means anything, Rich Rod should be lauded for his guts in taking on such a challenge.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
John for a UM grad like you SAY you are you sure as hell didnt go to their #2 ranked business school because if you did you would have realized the opportunity cost of wasting your time by pulling out a thesaurus and dictionary so your clever 643 posts can outsmart 12 year olds about random topics that has absolutely no relation to the RR situation..... but who knows maybe you enjoy talking to 12 year olds in chat rooms so muvch that this is rational
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
No relationship to the B school: BA '67 and Law (JD) '75.
One thing I am sure of: most twelve year olds I have encountered can spell better than you ("muvch") and can compose superior sentences to yours ("about random topics that has --- sic ---"). Also, try concluding your sentences with punctuation. More importantly, come on big guy, shed your anonymous standing and show a little guts --- at least half as much as the twelve year olds. Where did you say you received your degree(s)?
Most of the shots I have read directed at RR or his situation, whether logically or illogically, have included shots and slings directed at Michigan. As I have pointed out, those shots and slings are beyond irrational; they are products of plain ignorance. So yes, I can connect my comments to the topic and more significantly to comments made in response to the topical post.
I got into this simply because I "filed" a Google Alert for "Rich Rodriguez." I did so after Michigan hired him, hoping I could find something out about the man, his football record, and his football ideas. Instead, almost everything mentioning his name has come from crazies who can resist saying things that consistently subtract from the sum of human knowledge. You, Anonymous, whoever you are, fit the bill perfectly. At least try doing so with a minimal command of the English language --- even something approaching that of a 12 year old.
And by the way, have I really posted 643 times?
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Mark Rupert about 1 year ago
Man South Carolina had to settle for Spurrier and Michigan got RR, makes Mark Richt look better and better. Best of luck guys. Mark Richt said the same thing I will be here as long as GA will have me, don't have to wonder about honesty or integrity with Richt. It's truly great to be a GA DAWG. Like I said best of luck.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
As I said John, it is all a justification you and the multitude of UM fans are putting up for RR. You found yourselves a coach you could buy (and who was willing to sell himself), who in doing so discarded the values he had preached to his kids and his supporters. He had every legal recourse at his disposal to bend WVU to his will... IF the school was as petty as he has tried to make the country believe. The series of emails that he sent to the school certainly show he was not making any attempt to pursue his complaints through any binding arbitration, as set forth in his contract.
UM fans repeatedly state that the tradition and prestige of UM's program justifies RR's departure. That tradition now includes a history of sneaking behind the administration of another school and the hamstringing of another football program. Your argument has been that bowl games and attendance numbers trump sportsmanship and ethical behavior. That sure is some tradition to be proud of there, John.
UM fans are in public support of RR's efforts to void his contract. A contract he had 9 months to consider before signing. A contract that was amended several times at his request before he signed it. So basically UM fans advocate that coaches contracts don't mean squat. Does this apply to RR's current contract with UM as well considering he had less than a month to consider this new contract?
Sorry John, there are just too many inconsistencies in the position UM fans have taken about this whole affair for you all to claim some divine right based on a winning record. The conduct of your AD, in the manner he conducted his courtship of RR, is less than ethical when considering the long accepted "tradition" of how one school approaches another school's employees. RR's manner of resignation and departure was certainly less than professional (for instance, he destroyed documents which involved his job and work that he was paid for - how many jobs let you destroy work you were paid to do, hmmm?). In short, I see a great deal of rationalization involved in your explanations of UM's position and RR's behavior. I would also point out what I feel is a very damning difference between UM and its' boosters when compared to WVU's supporters. Simply this... if WVU had found a coach that they felt was the savior (and let's face it, you guys are desperate for new blood) of a grand tradition, then we would have covered his buy out by now.
A Winning Tradition does not trump sportsmanship, business ethics, and legally binding contracts.
QED
WVU - 89
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John MacLean about 1 year ago
I'm sorry Anonymous. I've been informed that I am exchanging comments with 12 year olds. Had I known your age, I never would have taunted you into making such ridiculous comments. So, I guess I'll just get out of this. I should have known that no 12 year old, much less one from the hills of WV, would be able to understand the complexities of . . . But then, this is a state that just gave all of its Republican delegates to Mr. Intelligent Design from Arkansas. You need not reply to this, unless you want to read it yourself or have it read by the other 12 year olds who have posted here, because, as I said, or implied (in language only 12 year olds from WV would need a thesaurus or a dictionary to understand) I am out of here.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
LOL
Boyee you sure showed me John. Yes sir, you done put me in my place!
In the spirit of the same level of maturity of which you have just displayed...
I AM RUBBER AND YOU ARE GLUE, WHAT YOU SAY BOUNCES OFF OF ME AND STICKS TO YOU.
...and with that, I think we can tally up one more loss for UM during a series of several disappointing seasons.
WVU - 89
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Jonnie Jon about 1 year ago
"John" sorry for the anonymous title. I wish i could be as brave as you and have my first name at the top of my post. I actually might just do that. So you, john, can call me "Jon" or "Jonnie". I would come up with a more creative name but with my low level of knowledge i can't do it. (Because of course i didn’t graduate from UM) hell i can't even spell or use proper grammar (sorry if i didn’t dot every "i" and cross every "T" or even had a god forsaken typo, i didn’t realize the importance of perfect grammar in this informal chat room) so as were making my earlier point about "john" getting in arguments about nothing with 12 year olds i might as well tell a story. "john" ..... I was reading ESPN the magazine and it gave the top 10 ways you know you have lost your fantasy league. Number one was, "you know you have lost when in the chats rooms you have resorted to correcting grammar and spelling errors." now i know this isnt a fantasy league but a college grad from such an astounding university like yourself might find the correlation.... if you need any help let me know.....
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Jonnie Jon about 1 year ago
ohh yeah, "John" just because you type your responses in 'word' so you can use spell check doesn’t mean you're as smart as you think you are. I wish i had as much self-confidence in my intelligence as you do, just not as narcissistic (and yes, i did check my spelling for that because i didnt want "John" to propose the death penalty for not a misspelled word or not, "concluding my sentences with punctuation")
P.S.
Come on is this all the better you can come back w/ "john":
"One thing I am sure of: most twelve year olds I have encountered can spell better than you ("muvch")"
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Jonnie Jon about 1 year ago
ignore the first "not"
(My second try for better spelling; these old fingers on this "old man" sometimes don't respond as I wish them to, even though I'm really a 30 year old pedophile)
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