Enigmatic Debate: Morrison/Kingston, Barrett, Punk/Cena, Worst WWE Fans?
Welcome Bleacher Creatures to the 4th edition of the Enigmatic Debate.
In case you missed the last two editions, the Enigmatic Debate revolves around the current wrestling world. From Impact Wrestling to the WWE, the Debate discusses any and every topic pro wrestling related.
The goal for the series is to spark debates.
As I’ve stated numerous times before, debates are healthy and a natural part of being in the Internet Wrestling Community (IWC). With each passing week, there’s a set of outrageous, factual, or unexpected news, to hit B/R from dirt sheets. Naturally, most of the IWC flock to the comment section to voice our opinions on the subject at hand.
As writers, we’re here to challenge the thinking of readers by presenting topics too difficult to give a simple answer. We’ll also include weekly thoughts on the programming and pay per views.
The ED features writers from the B/R and EGW.
Please visit, http://theenigmaticgenerationofwrestling.wordpress.com/, for the latest news/articles from the featured writers.
Who's Better: Kofi Kingston or John Morrison?
Rize: It’s extremely difficult to decide between both Superstars. When it comes to mic skills as a face, Kofi Kingston is slightly better than John Morrison. But, if John Morrison was able to resurrect his ability on the mic stemming from SmackDown 2009, I would place him ahead.
For example, his pre match promo with Edge.
When it comes to their in ring style, both are noted as being high flyers. While Kofi is explosive and unorthodox, John Morrison is balanced and utilizes his parkour training. As a huge fan of the high flying genre, it’s tough to decide which is better in the ring. If it came down to personal preference, I’d pick John Morrison in a heartbeat.
Charlie Groenewegen: This is a close call but I’m going to pick John Morrison.
Morrison has good in-ring ability but lacks mic skills to be a world champion, as a face that is. As a heel, Morrison is much better on the mic.
Morrison also has a bigger fan base than Kofi due to his high flying, parkour move set.
Ryan Frye: I have a feeling I maybe the only one, but I say Kofi Kingston.
Kofi is far more confortable on the microphone than Morrison. You can tell he is very layed back, while Morrison seems very uneasy and nervous.
In the ring, both are nothing short of amazing. Kofi is more unorthodox while JoMo is your normal high-flyer, with great parkour ability.
Overall, if I was forced to choose between them, I would pick Kofi.
Hamster Fan: John Morrison.
He can work as a heel and face although is mic work as a face, his heel mic skills more than make up for it whereas Kingston really is just average as a face and as a heel, well, we’ve never seen a heel Kofi before. And in in-ring skills, Morrison is also better and more innovative as well, although Kofi is not that far in that environment.
Overall, Morrison edges out Kofi.
John Cavanagh: This is an easy one to start. John Morrison is a clear level above Kofi Kingston in every way possible. Kingston is still in the mid-card scene, and Morrison is a step below the main-event scene. Both have similar abilities, but Morrison is getting the bigger push because he is more over with the crowd. He is better in the ring then Kingston, who can be inconsistent at times.
Morrison is also better on the mic then Kingston. If you don’t know by now, you will now, is that I am very critical of Kingston’s mic skills. He sounds akward and his accent hurts his chances in my opinion. Morrison is a better worker and seller, as he can wrestle with all different types of wrestlers. Kingston is good, but not at Morrison’s level yet.
Thoughts on Wade Barrett's Placement on WWE Superstars?
Rize: It’s absolutely ridiculous. Wade Barrett is one of the all around best Superstars in the WWE. Barrett possesses all of the tools to make it big in the WWE. The simple fact that Sheamus is pushed ahead of Wade is atrocious. One year ago, Wade Barrett led the biggest WWE story of 2010.
Simply put, Wade was unstoppable.
In typical WWE fashion, Creative dropped the ball on Barrett and moved him to SmackDown. Now he’s on Superstars facing unknowns? I’m hoping either Barrett or Cody Rhodes wins the SmackDown briefcase. If not, it would be a waste of an opportunity and an outstanding amount of potential.
John Cavanagh: It is embarrasing to say the least. This guy went from leading the most dominant force in the WWE for a long time, working with John Cena, to now fighting an unknown wrestler? Being on Superstars is worse enough, but to have him face a no one?
I would’ve never predicted that Barrett’s move to Smackdown would end in this. He should be in the World Title hunt, and hopefully Money in the Bank does that. He has all the tools and is finally on his own, with no stable holding him back. He is young, so this is not so bad for the moment.
Ryan Frye: With the SmackDown roster being so thin, it’s unexcusable to me.
The main event scene has Mark Henry in it. Yes, Mark Henry is main eventing while Wade Barrett is facing a local indy wrestler on Superstars. How does this work?
To me, Henry is difficult to take seriously as a main event heel after his ridiculous run as a face. Barrett has a better look, is better in-ring and is better on the mic, yet the 40-year old Kool-Aid man gets the spot?
Hamster Fan: Wade Barrett’s placement on Superstars is to me way worse than the whole Zack Ryder situation. I mean really, Ryder hasn’t been in the main event yet but Barrett has and it was less than a year ago!
Barrett was once a credible main-event heel and if given the right push he can definitely help the Smackdown scene. He has the skills and is possibly one of the better in-ring men that I have ever seen and obviously deserves way better than what he is currently doing. Hopefully, a Money in the Bank win can fix that, if not, Barrett may turn into wasted potential.
Charlie Groenewegen: Wade Barrett on WWE’s internet show, Superstars, is a bad mistake. Remember when Barrett was challenging for the WWE title on RAW?
Now he’s on Superstars.
Wade Barrett is one of the top young heels in WWE that isn’t completely boring. Barrett was my favorite in NXT season 1 and is one of my favorite superstars inWWE right now.
I think that Barrett needs to stop leading or participating in dead end factions and focus on a singles career alone.
Maybe a face turn would help since he is on the heel heavy Smackdown.
Detailed Prediction on CM Punk vs. John Cena?
Rize: I’ve analyzed the events of RAW for awhile now and I’ve come up with three possible outcomes. One, CM Punk defeats John Cena for the WWE Championship. Before Punk can “walk out” with the WWE Championship, Mr. Money in the bank cashes in on Punk. The MITB Winner defeats CM Punk, thus saving Cena’s job and writing Punk off of television.
Two, Creative parodies the Montreal Screwjob once again.
Cena locks in the STF while McMahon calls for the bell. Cena states that he had no part in Vince’s plan effectively turning Punk face upon his return. Three, CM Punk wins the WWE Championship thus continuing this storyline.
Ryan Frye: I have gone back and fourth on weather CM Punk is even staying in the WWE after Money In The Bank. Currently, I think he is leaving.
I see Punk winning, and then Raw’s Money In The Bank winner cashing in, saving John Cena’s job in the process. I believe if the Money In The Bank winner is Kofi Kingston, it could get him over more than he already is.
However, I would love to see Punk win, and defend the title on the independent scene.
Hamster Fan: There are many ways that Cm Punk vs John Cena can go.
There’s the obvious Punk or Cena win only for the MitB winner to cash in and win the title, hence allowing Cena to not get fired.
There’s also the normal Cena victory or the normal Punk victory.
Countouts or disqualifications can also work or not depending on the rules for the match.
Or there’s the unthinkable with the Rock coming back and somehow being involved in the match outcome, since in the past few days Punk and Cena have both been talking smack about the Rock.
Charlie Groenewegen: I’m not really sure about the outcome of this match.
Some people think Punk is really leaving while others think he resigned.
The stipulation that makes me sure of a possible outcome was announced on RAW.
If CM Punk walks out of Chicago as the WWE Champion then John Cena is fired. So the way I see it, this match can end one of two ways.
1.) John Cena defeats Punk in typical Superman fashion.
2.) CM Punk defeats John Cena but the RAW MITB winner cashes in on him and wins.
John Cavanagh: The best storyline in the WWE for awhile, this match is predictable to some. So sure Cena walks out the WWE Champion? They may pull of a shocker because that’s what this storyline is filled with. Shocks. CM Punk’s shoot promo is just one example to that. CM Punk may win the WWE Championship, but the winner of the RAW MITB cashes in on that night?
That sends Punk out on a high-note, gives the title to someone new freshning up the main-event scene, and Cena keeps his job. A perfect scenario! It is highly unlikely, which is why I think Cena will walk out WWEChampion and possibly turn heel. Either way, there are so many outcomes which is why it has my full interest. WWE needs to capitalize.
Greatest TNA Wrestler of All Time?
Rize: AJ Styles is and always has been the greatest TNA wrestler of all time. Styles has been with TNA from day one and has done it all in TNA. From Triple Crown to the only Grand Slam Champion in TNA history, AJ Styles has stuck by TNA despite the inclusion of guys like Christian Cage, Kurt Angle, Sting, and Booker T.
AJ is the only TNA wrestler to place number one on the PWI 500.
Besides this, AJ is an all around great wrestler. From his incredible matches to his ability on the mic, AJ personifies the words “wrestling matters”.
Hamster Fan: Of All-Time? C’mon, this is really tough.
There’s AJ Styles, Christopher Daniels, Samoa Joe, Petey Williams,
Kurt Angle, Beer Money, Christian Cage, MCMG, Kaz, Low-Ki, Jerry Lynn, and even Matt Morgan.
But for me, I’ve got to go with the Face of TNA AJ Styles. He is the face of the company for a reason you know. He can perform in the ring, cut good promos, transition to the main event quickly, is popular with the fans, and can carry the company if needed to. He’s proven himself with his career long tenure since the inception of TNA and has been simply phenomenal as the company’s face by being the first TNA grand slam champion in TNA history.
He’s done it all and is without a doubt the best TNA superstar of all-time.
Charlie Groenewegen: This is tough.
I’m thinking of guys like AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Daniels, Chris Sabin and Petey Williams (the last two are way underrated).
I’m going to say AJ Styles.
He is the “Phenomenal One” and built TNA into what it is now. He is the company’s first ever Grand Slam Champion (Abyss is No. 2) and is the greatest TNA World Heavyweight Champion in history.
Did I forget to mention that he was number 1 on the PWI list of Top 500 Wrestlers of 2010?
Ryan Frye: AJ Styles has always been the face of TNA, and able to put on amazing match after amazing match.
So, why would I say anybody but him?
Beer Money Successors? (Next Face of TNA Tag Team Division)
Rize: I admire TNA’s Tag Team Division as it is the obvious favorite against its competitor. If anyone were to succeed Beer Money as the number one tag team, it should be Generation Me or the Motor City Machine Guns. Both are fresh teams with the ability to revitalize the tag and X Division if given the opportunity.
The other tag teams in TNA are passable but not enough to take on the role as face of the tag division.
Charlie Groenewegen: I wrote a little bit on this topic before. The article can only be found on the Enigmatic Generation of Wrestling website.
If you actually took the time to read that article then you will know what team I’m talking about.
They have the past tag team champion experience, look of champions, mic skills and crowd reaction.
Finally! Finally, they are getting TV time again.
Who’s my pick? It’s in the linked article above. A mere click away to see.
Ryan Frye: When they are both healthy, the Motor City Machine Guns are the obvious answer here.
They have been Beer Money’s best rival, and have shown that they can put on five-star matches with just about anybody.
The one thing that we are unsure about win the Guns is, can they play heels as good as they play faces?
We know Beer Money can, but can Alex Shelley and Chris Sabin?
Hamster Fan: Beer Money’s successors to me are most likely going to be the British Invasion. I doubt MCMG counts so the Brits are my choice for Beer Money’s successors. IfMCMG counted it would be them and for Generation Me, they’re MCMG’s successors. The British Invasion is also basically the only realistic choice with the lack of tag teams in TNA’s current product. They have the experience and ability to carry the tag team division for TNA.
Thoughts on Possible Stable Featuring Ryder, Otunga and McGillicutty?
Rize: This has its negatives and positives. It helps Ryder get on television. Then again, it’s holding Nexus together when it should’ve died months ago. They would have to alter the direction of the group. Nexus is a ruthless stable full of hungry competitors looking to destroy opponents. Zack Ryder is a laid back, charismatic, entertaining guy.
If it was altered to fit the qualities of Zack Ryder, I would be interested in seeing where it goes.
John Cavanagh: It would be good just because it gets Ryder on TV! But, lets look at it gimmick wise. Would Ryder fit in a group like the Nexus? For this to work, Ryder has to stay face. If Ryder doesn’t stay face, it will be a pointless move. Again, the Nexus is a so called “intimidating force”.
How could they be taken serious if Ryder yells “Woo Woo Woo!”. I like this only because the WWE is attempting ideas to get him on TV. They notice him and his popularity, and they are trying things out. Who knows? Ryder could be a huge hit and the Nexus could be a face tag team!
Ryan Frye: Can we please end the Nexus already?
This stable has been irrelavent for six months, and we want to repackage them a third time?
I say let Migilicutty and Otunga wither away into obscurity, and give Zack Ryder something new and fresh.
Hamster Fan: Well at least Zack Ryder gets TV time if he joins the stable of Otunga and McGillicutty.
But seriously, he’ll most likely be the most credible of the three and the best all-around performer. I’m not sure if it will amount to much but as long as Ryder gets TV time, I’m down with that.
Charlie Groenewegen: Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid.
Does the WWE not realize that Zack Ryder can no longer be a heel? Do they hear the crowd reaction when he comes out? The crowd loves Ryder.
WWE must be really stupid to over look Ryder’s past with Hawkins, Primo and Scott Stanford. All of them appeared on Ryder’s hit internet series: Z! True Long Island Story.
How about Ryder and either Hawkins or Primo challenge Otunga and McGillicutty? That’d be better than this crappy stable that the WWE may come up with.
Who's the Next First World Champion in the WWE?
Rize: Alberto Del Rio
Ryan Frye: Alberto Del Rio or Kofi Kingston.
Del Rio is more likely, because he won the number one contender’s match on Raw, and it has always been his destiny to win his first world title.
Del Rio could win the WWE Championship at Summerslam, starting a couple month program with John Cena. Cena would be in a mad scramble to regain the championship, so he could put it on the line at WrestleMania.
I could see Kofi winning Money In The Bank, cashing in on CM Punk and saving John Cena’s job. This storyline could then go many different directions.
Hamster Fan: The next first WWE or World Heavyweight champion is most likely going to be Alberto Del Rio although I would prefer for it to be Wade Barrett. Barrett, to me, is about 100 times better overall than Alberto Del Rio. He can speak and get the crowd to actually boo him as a heel with legit heat. He can also perform well in the ring, especially for a big man and if he gets to that same role as he was in last year, then Barrett can be the next World champion.
Charlie Groenewegen: I think it will be Alberto Del Rio.
It’s his destiny! But you already knew that! Blah, blah, blah….
Alberto Del Rio’s boring self will be the next guy to win his first World title. He’s booked in the MITB and is an obvious favorite in the match.
John Cena vs. Alberto Del Rio is already penciled in for SummerSlam.
Question is: Who will be WWE Champion at the time?
John Cavanagh: The next first to be World Champion, is Alberto Del Rio. I was high on Del Rio ever since he appeared in the WWE. But as time goes on, I am now very bored of him. Del Rio is the same thing everytime. His promos in the beginning were good, because we have never seen them before. Now, they are extremley repetitive and get no reaction from the crowd. The WWE is very high on Del Rio, and it has been rumored that he will face Cena at Summerslam for the WWE Championship. I see nothing special in Del Rio, and he is not the future of this company.
He, for one, is 34 years old. Not much time left for him to reach his “destiny”. I picked him because it is the most logical decision. He has a great chance to win MITB, and to be featured as a top heel after CM Punk’s departure. A guy who should win his first world championship, is Wade Barrett. Barrett has all the tools and is a good choice, but he just appeared on Superstars. I don’t see him making that big of a move just yet. Plus, it is almost a lock Sheamus will win the MITB for Smackdown.
Who Should Be the Next TNA World Champion?
Rize: If I were to choose, I would say AJ Styles. AJ hasn’t been World Champion in almost a year. I’m sick of seeing Ken Anderson feuding for the World Championship. He has been in the title picture since this time last year. If AJ doesn’t win it, hopefully Kurt Angle does.
Kurt hasn’t been the TNA Champion in almost two years. It would be refreshing to witness the Olympic Gold Medalist climb the mountain once again.
There’s also another guy I wouldn’t mind winning it. He has been World Champion twice since last year. This time around, he should portray a face role. This man has had some personal struggles in the past and looks to have overcome them with the birth of his daughter.
I’m pretty sure you know who I’m referring to.
Hamster Fan: The next TNA World Champion SHOULD be Christopher Daniels. I actually wrote an article about him and his whole situation here: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/761753-tnas-christopher-daniels-the-fallen-angel-of-reliable-talent so I won’t go into length but let’s just say that Daniels is extremely underrated. If not Daniels, then Morgan should be the next TNA champion.
Like Daniels, he’s already proven himself and deserves a run with the belt at least once. I actually have an article on that situation as well which can be found here: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/659776-impact-wrestlings-matt-morgan-the-dna-of-tna-is-still-waiting-for-his-gold. Either way, I would prefer Daniels or Morgan to be the next TNA champion. Oh, and if you don’t agree, read the question again. It says “SHOULD”.
Charlie Groenewegen: Well, me being the TNA mark that I am, would love to see another Kurt Angle, AJ Styles, Jeff Hardy, Samoa Joe and/or RVD reign.
I’d also love to see The Pope, Matt Morgan, Bobby Roode, Hernandez (strictly as a face), Daniels, Kazarian and James Storm have their first time to shine as Heavyweight Champion.
I just want to throw the BS flag on one thing — four actually.
How is it that Jeff Hardy and Mr. Ken Anderson are already two time World Champions?! They handed the title to each other through the course of 2 months. Why isn’t AJ or Samoa Joe two time champion? They’ve spent 9 years in the company!
Enough of my rant and onto the question at hand.
Who SHOULD be World Champion.
Two ideal picks (not counting AJ Styles. I wish he were champion 10 months out of the year) have to be Matt Morgan and The Pope.
Both guys have yet to win a singles title; in WWE (those days are over) and IMPACTWrestling.
Morgan has been in TNA for years now. Pope has been for maybe a year or two.
Both have the in-ring abilities and the mic skills to pull off being the World Champion.
Morgan proved to be World Champion worthy after his match with Kurt Angle at Bound For Glory during the Main Event Mafia Era.
Pope proved worthy at Lockdown 2010. I loved his match with AJ despite the dirty finish and hope for another World title match between the two in the future.
Between Pope and Morgan, I can’t choose.
What I am dying to see is AJ Styles vs. Matt Morgan for the World Heavyweight Championship at my favorite pay-per-view of all, Lockdown.
Ryan Frye: AJ Styles should win the Bound for Glory series, and take the title away from Mr. Anderson. This only makes more sense now that Anderson belongs to Immortal, as we could have an Immortal member versus a Fortune member, and the loser’s stable must disband.
Worse Set of WWE Fans?
Rize: Worse set of WWE Fans are MizFits, Cena haters and Orton marks. I’ve witnessed some of the narrowest minded statements made by each category. For example, Orton marks feel as if Orton is the anti-Cena. They wholeheartedly believe Orton is the alternative to John Cena. In my opinion, Orton is worse than John Cena.
Cena is charismatic, entertaining and possesses the mic skills to retain his status as top guy. Orton doesn’t possess any of those qualities. He’s bland in every department excluding his wrestling which is the same five-step process most Cena haters bash him for.
On the other hand, MizFits are absolutely terrible. They firmly believe The Miz is the best thing the WWE has created since Stone Cold. Most Mizfits overrate him, even going as far as saying he’s a better wrestler than John Morrison. His mic work is extremely overrated too.
He’s not on the same level as Cena, Punk, Jericho or Edge for that matter.
In the end, MizFits are the worse.
John Cavanagh: The worst set of fans are ORTON MARKS! You people defend him no matter what. We call him boring, because he is and you are all over us! It’s true! Orton is there because of his last name and because he has WWE Management by its throat. If Orton does something, thats okay. If someone else slips up, like Kingston for example, then Orton can complain and get his way because NO ONE is perfect like him. His fans are the same. “Look at all his World Titles.” I don’t care, he’s not talented and can’t carry Smackdown like Edge could.
If Orton turns heel, then I might change my mind. Orton isn’t good enough to play both a heel and a face. His fans annoy me! I would like to start a war against the Orton marks. Mizfits are okay, I can be one too. I despise Cena-haters because the guy works day in and day out, but they're not as brash and obnoxious as the Orton marks. Please let me know what is EVER SO SPECIAL about Randy Boreton…oh Orton. Because the only one that sees something in him is you Orton marks!
Hamster Fan: Let’s see. Cena haters are so narrow-minded they don’t see the positive that Cena brings to the company. He, whether you like it or not, helps keep the company alive. As for Orton marks, they can’t deny the fact that he delivers too many robotic promos and that he has the five moves of doom similar to Cena and is a “Superman” in his own right, yet hate the fact Cena is the same. They love Orton but hate Cena for being the original “Superman” while Orton is almost the same.
Add to that the fact that he’s helped ruin potential and people still say that it isn’t his fault, it was the opponent’s fault for being “STUPID.”
But to me, the Mizfits are the worst. “He had to overcome all the haters and prove himself.” Um, last time I checked, so did almost everyone else on the roster. Everyone has had their fair share of haters in their career and most of them found a way to make it, Miz isn’t the only one to do so! Even Hornswoggle had to overcome the odds of being in the ring with all of those “giant” wrestlers while he was a small man.
But he proved everyone wrong as well when he finally won gold in the Cruiserweight championship. Seriously, if you think Miz is awesome then why don’t you go tell that to CM Punk, Edge or Chris Jericho’s face? They’re more awesome than Miz can ever dream of becoming. “Miz is the best!” “Miz is AWESOME!” All I have to say is “Really?”
Ryan Frye: Mizfits and Cena haters go hand and hand, so it’s rather difficult to separate the two.
Mizfits believe The Miz is much more than he really is, some even saying he is a better wrestler than John Morrison. Yes, some people truly believe that.
John Cena haters are blind. They refuse to watch his pre-WWE matches that show he can indeed wrestle. They hate him simply because of his gimmick and do not look at what else he has done outside the ring.
Honestly, I cannot stand either group. If forced to choose one, I would go with Cena haters, because their hatred of his gimmick blinds them to see anything else the man does.
Charlie Groenewegen: After learning the ways of the IWC and reinforcing my knowledge in pro wrestling (I had no idea what a face and heel were until last summer) I don’t look at any wrestling fan and think:
“I hate them because s/he’s a (Insert name here) fan.”
People like different things.
I like Miz, John Cena, Randy Orton, et cetera.
All fans are the same, they just cheer for different people.
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