Enigmatic Debate: Punk's Shoot, Sting's New Gimmick, Orton, Best Show?

RiZESenior Writer IJuly 2, 2011

Enigmatic Debate: Punk's Shoot, Sting's New Gimmick, Orton, Best Show?

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    Welcome Bleacher Creatures to the 3rd edition of the Enigmatic Debate.

    In case you missed the last two editions, the Enigmatic Debate revolves around the current wrestling world. From Impact Wrestling to the WWE, the Debate discusses any and every topic pro wrestling related.

    The goal for the series is to spark debates.

    As I’ve stated numerous times before, debates are healthy and a natural part of being in the Internet Wrestling Community (IWC). With each passing week, there’s a set of outrageous, factual, or unexpected news, to hit B/R from dirt sheets. Naturally, most of the IWC flock to the comment section to voice our opinions on the subject at hand.

    As writers, we’re here to challenge the thinking of readers by presenting topics too difficult to give a simple answer. We’ll also include weekly thoughts on the programming and pay per views.

    The ED features writers from the B/R and EGW.

    Please visit, http://theenigmaticgenerationofwrestling.wordpress.com/for the latest news/articles from the featured writers. 

    Be sure to take part in the EGW Fantasy League. Constructed by Ryan Frye and Ben Gartland, the Fantasy League is a must for every pro wrestling fan.

    For more details, visit http://theenigmaticgenerationofwrestling.wordpress.com/2011/07/01/egw-fantasy-wrestling-league-20112012-rules-details/

What Is the Best Show Right Now? (Impact, RAW, SmackDown)

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    Rize:  Impact Wrestling is better than RAW and SmackDown right now. Despite the questionable booking methods, Impact has interested me more than any brand from the WWE. They’re keeping their product fresh by booking this BFG tournament and attempting to rebuild the X-Division. 

    I've witnessed Austin Aries, Low Ki, and even AJ Styles planning their returns to the Division at Destination X. That and the revival of the six sided ring is displaying why I fell in love with TNA in the first place.

    Charlie Groenewegen: IMPACT Wrestling hands down, no questions asked. You’ll know why after watching a few weeks of it.The Destination X Tournament is pure gold and produced awesome matches. We’ve seen such talent such as Austin Aries, Low Ki, Jimmy Yang, Jimmy Rave, Zema Ion, Dakota Darsow, Kid Kash and the final match is next week.IMPACT is more ‘bang for your buck’ so-to-speak. On the latest edition of IMPACT, Sting just named the July 14th edition of IMPACT the “Mid-Summer Nightmare.” Sounds good, right?

    What makes it so special you ask? A World title match, Knockouts title match, Destination X fallout and more. It is basically this years version of last years Whole F*N Show. It is a PPV quality show on free TV. The Bound for Glory Series is one of the smartest concepts in years; from WWE or TNA. I love it. Wins and losses haven’t matter as much as they do now.

    IMPACT Wrestling is the place to be. Everything is perfect right now. You know why? Wrestling matters.
    Message for all IMPACT haters: Don’t judge it until you try it. 

    Ryan Frye: What is the best show right now; Raw, SmackDown, or iMPACT Wrestling?

    Despite the heat I may get for this, iMPACT has been the best show of the three TNA has done a great job with wrestling recently, proving that wrestling does once again matter. I’m loving the Bound For Glory series, as it is an innovative and creates very fresh matchups.

    The X-Division tournament has also been great, because it has made for excellent three-way matches for three consecutive weeks. And who isn’t looking forward to Destination X?

    I mean, if you aren’t, you’re just a WWE mark.

    AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels?

    Does anybody have a doubt how great that will be?

    RVD vs. Jerry Lynn?

    Once again, will be terrific.

    The Sting/Hogan.Bischoff angle has been very entertaining, and it’s a great way to use the older stars in the company.

    Why didn’t I pick Raw or SmackDown?

    Raw, in my opinion, has been very dull. If you erase the CM Punk promo, what has stood out?

    Better matches?

    Yes, but TNA’s wrestling has been better, without the recycled stories.

    As far as SmackDown, Randy Orton versus Christian is great, but the rest of the show is seriously lacking star power. 

    Ben Gartland:  What is the best show right now; Raw, SmackDown, or iMPACT Wrestling?
    At the moment, Smackdown is lacking serious main eventers. I mean, Orton and Christian is great, but that is the only they have. The rest of the show is lackluster. Now Raw has a boat-load of star power, but no really good story lines.

    CM Punk is the only reason a lot of us will be tuning next Monday. Now Impact Wrestling is on it’s way up. The whole “Joker” Sting is brilliant and the focus on the X-Division is why it’s great right now. TNA has figured it out and are on their way up.

    Hamster Fan:  The best show for me right now is iMPACT Wrestling. It has really improved since the company began the Bound for Glory series. They have given 12 men a chance to show that they could be a number one contender. Now what other company does that? Don’t say WWE with the Royal Rumble or the MitB because we all know that some wrestlers have higher odds than others. But for this TNA series, everyone has equal odds to win. It is unpredictable. 

    Another reason that iMPACT Wrestling is good is because aside from the BFG series, it is consistent and puts on at least one match that should be rewatched over and over again. Most of these matches are from the X-Division but it doesn’t matter because iMPACT Wrestling still pushes their stars who can wrestle unlike RAW and Smackdown. 

    The only entertaining thing on RAW is Punk, the rest of the show is average at best. (See this week’s RAW for proof) Smackdown on the other hand has a good feud going on in Orton vs Christian but then the rest of the show performs poorly due to the deserving guys NOT getting pushed properly. iMPACT Wrestling, meanwhile, makes the most of what they have making it the best show right now.

Reaction to CM Punk’s shoot promo from Raw?

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    Rize:  After two straight weeks of lackluster WWE Programming, CM Punk single handedly made the WWE more interesting. I must say, I was disappointed with the previous three hour RAW’s. Each lacked substance and revolved around mediocre and recycled feuds. RAW Roulette wasn't different.

    With the exception of Mysterio and Riley vs. Miz and Swagger, RAW was absolutely horrible. No new buildup, predictable matches, and a distinct lack in substance.

    When Punk donned Austin’s shirt when he interrupted Cena vs. Truth, I knew a golden promo was coming. I didn't expect a full blown shoot where he stated what we already knew. I’m seriously looking forward to Money in the Bank now that Punk has rocked the wrestling world.

    Ryan Frye: What can be said here that already hasn't?

    CM Punk is the best in the world, and in a class of his own.

    I do believe that he has re-signed with the WWE, because the WWE wouldn’t let Punk cut a promo like that unless it was for something big, not a three week pay-per-view buy rate grabber. 

    Hamster Fan:  Punk’s promo was EPIC! It showed that he really has mastered the art of being a superstar. He made people doubt whether it was worked or a shoot. Once you do that, it means that you are great. But now that Punk’s promo has passed, it is up to the WWE to keep the momentum going. Hopefully they use this as a stepping stone for greater things to come. Either way, Punk’s RAW promo was LEGENDARY!

    Charlie Groenwegen:  The CM Punk shoot was the single greatest part of RAW that I can remember.
    CM Punk is gold. Give him crap, he’ll turn it to gold. His shoot got the IWC and wrestling world on edge and eating out of the palm of his hand. Really great job by Punk. Too bad they cut his mic before he aired Vince McMahon’s dirty laundry.

    Ben Gartland:  After I’ve had some time to think about it, I’m a bit concerned. I believe that it was a worked shoot, where he was going to get suspended anyways. Now, think back to the week after the Nexus’ original beat down. Almost none of the predicted paths happened and look at the Nexus now.
    The CM Punk situation is different from the Nexus in a lot of ways though. For one, the rumor of his leaving adds to the suspense of the situation.

    Two, he has been in the company for a long time, and isn’t green like the Nexus members were. There was only one guy out of that 8 that was ready for the storyline and he got fired the next week. I think that it was a worked shoot and, in the promo, Punk did a fantastic job of selling Pay-Per-Views. You can expect more casual fans to buy the pay-per-view because of the promo.

    So overall it’s fantastic in pretty much every single way but now comes the hard part: following up on it.

Thoughts on Sting’s Joker gimmick?

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    Rize: I must say, Sting’s crazy gimmick is refreshing. Watching him paint Hogan’s face and shove vitamins down his throat is priceless. I feel that it’s appropriate because of the factors involved. He’s taking on the companies leaders in Bischoff and Hogan. He has been screwed out of the World Title and the cancer is beginning to spread through Impact.

    At times like this, a drastic change in Sting’s character is appropriate.

    The Icon isn't fit to handle angles like this. The psycho Sting is entertaining and as a longtime Sting fan, I’m intrigued by it.

    Ryan Frye:  I love it.

    Like the Joker trying to get Batman to show his true colors, Sting is attempting to get the Hulk Hogan to stand up.

    Sting’s gimmick has been getting stale as of late, because he doesn’t get the chance to show a ton of personality. Little things like changing the facepaint are brilliant, and something that you don’t see often in pro wrestling nowadays. 

    Hamster Fan: Sting’s Joker gimmick is awesome as well. He actually has me interested in Hogan & Bischoff! Everytime he appears, he makes me want to see what’ll happen next. It actually is a nice change from Sting’s old character as he also gets to show more of a “fun” personality. As long as Sting is a “Joker” I know I’ll keep watching.

    Charlie Groenwegen:   I’m loving it. Did you see this past week? He beat up Hogan and poured vitamins down his throat. This new Sting is edgier and different. He’s more entertaining as “Joker.” I’m looking forward to future Sting/Joker antics. It’s a success in my book. Read some blogs or comments on Youtube videos. A lot of people love the new Sting.

    Ben Gartland:  I love it. I think it’s given the Stinger a whole new breath of life and has made him relevant and interesting again. Add that to the revolution against Hogan and Bischoff going on and you have the reason Impact is the top show right now.

Thoughts on Randy Orton’s Interview?

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    Rize:  Simply put, it wasn’t called for. The things he said about Kelly don’t fit the bill of a World Champion. This guy is a leader of a million dollar corporation. The same corporation whose audience is mostly consisted of kids who cite this guy as a role model. And what does he do? He airs Kelly’s dirty laundry over a radio station for millions to hear?

    What upsets me is the fact that some IWC members found this funny.

    Others came up with excuses to defend the guy when he shouldn’t have said those things in the first place. He had the chance to let the convo die down but one of the guys mentions Dolph Ziggler and Orton goes “ding ding ding ding”.

    There’s no defending that even with an apology.

    Ryan Frye: This is Randy Orton. I honestly am not sure why we would expect anymore of the guy.

    He has ducked military commitments in the past, has gotten talents in trouble due to his whiny nature (Anderson, Kingston) and is well known for trashing hotel rooms. So, have we expected him to change? I sure haven’t. I didn't flinch whatsoever when I learned of him trashing John Cena, The Rock, Kelly Kelly and others. I do, however, find it funny he’d call Cena robotic and stiff.

    Isn’t this the same guy with the monotone voice and almost broke Alex Riley’s neck?

    Yep, I thought so.

    Hamster Fan:  My thoughts on Orton’s interview?
    “STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!” He really has a huge ego doesn’t he? He basically did a “shoot” to steal some of Punk’s thunder and to try to regain some of his old fanbase by showing more “attitude”. He ripped into a few people, specifically Kelly Kelly, and he later apologized. If you ask me he shouldn’t have said it in the first place, but since he did, he should NOT have apologized because that just ruins the whole “tough” vibe that Randy tried to showoff in the interview.

    Charlie Groenwegen: Randy’s interview was certainly something.He bashed The Rock, John Cena and The Rock. I think he has a point about The Rock. I can agree with that bit he said. He admitted that Cena is above him in mic skills but then criticized his in-ring work. That’s okay, no harm done. He then said that Kelly Kelly sleeps around. That is a little F’ed up but what now Randy Orton can’t express himself openly? Did Randy present facts and evidence that K2 has slept around? No.

    It’s his thoughts. Nobody will know for sure if Kelly had done what she was accused of. There’s an old saying, “stick and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.”

    Some people need to lighten up on this matter.

    Ben Gartland: I listened to the interview and I don’t see what the big deal is. He just made a little off-hand comment that he later apologized for. The interviewers brought the thing up time and time again, but that was the interviewers, not him.

    He apologized for it, but people do not accept it. However if he had said something like Dolph Ziggler sleeps with every diva in the company, the debate wouldn’t even exist.

    In my opinion, if Kelly wants to lay everybody in the locker room, more power to her. Her sex life should not be the debate of the IWC, and the IWC shouldn’t get their panties in a bunch over such an off-hand comment that was later apologized for.

Does Gunner Deserve the Mega-Push He Appears To Be Getting?

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    Rize:  Gunner is a decent superstar, but there’s something about the guy that screams mid-carder to me. Don’t get me wrong, Gunner is talented, but he’s pretty weak when it comes to holding the mic. Just a few months ago, Gunner was a security guard with Murphy.

    Now, he’s pinning AJ Styles and Ken Anderson?

    I believe someone else should receive the mega push. Someone like Matt Morgan or Crimson could benefit from the push he’s on. Morgan is the total package. He’s got the mic skills and wrestling ability to make him a World Champion. Crimson has impressed me because he’s always changing up his in ring work ethic.


    Ryan Frye:  I do not understand the big deal about Gunner. I really don’t. His microphone skills are average, nothing about them stand out from anybody else on TNA’s roster. His ring skills?

    Once again, average. Nothing terrible but far from spectacular.

    Gunner should be a mid-carder, not a main eventer. Just how it is.


    Hamster Fan:  Gunner DOES NOT deserve the mega-push that he seems to be getting. There are far more deserving people like MATT MORGAN who deserve a push and a chance to look like a credible threat to the TNA championship.

    A push could really help Morgan. Gunner on the other hand, could benefit from it, but to me, he isn’t as believeable of a "monster" as much as Matt Morgan or Crimson.

    It may just be me, but I can’t buy Gunner as a part of the main event, upper midcard maybe but not the main event. If he gets a "monster" push, he’ll have to be dominating, but to me, there are better contenders to be that dominating "monster."


    Charlie Groenwegen:  I like this sudden push that Gunner is getting. He’s been getting the push and has proven that he can handle it. He beat three World Champions in one month—Anderson, Sting and AJ. Boom. I like his push. Gunner isn’t even 30 yet, and I think it is a good move. It shuts up the people who say IMPACT doesn’t push young talent. He and Crimson are being made into future World Champions right now. I’m a big Gunner fan and hope his push can continue.


    Ben Gartland: I’m not sure if deserve is the right word. A mega-push isn’t really given to someone who deserves it. A push is but not a mega-push. Both Lesnar and Goldberg received mega-pushes without really deserving them, and they turned out all right.

    Gunner has the capabilities to be a main-eventer, and the reaction has been positive thus far, so yes, he deserves the mega-push. He will be a great main-eventer someday.

Which Team Would You Rather See Face Beer Money; The British Invasion or Mexican

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    Rize: Simply put, Mexican America is absolutely horrible. I can’t find any entertainment when I watch these guys. The ladies of the stable are constantly talking. They’re always heavily involved in the promo as if they were Hernandez’s echoes. Anarquia is absolutely horrible at all aspects of being a pro wrestler.

    The British Invasion may be recycled but they’re far more entertaining than Mexican America.

    Ryan Frye:  The British Invasion. Why? I’ve came to the conclusion that Mexican America is awful. You see, all of them are similar to nails on a chalkboard when speaking, especially Anarquia. You can barely understand what they say. In-ring, Hernandez is stiff, and Anarquia and Rosita are green.

    Please, end Mexican American. Also, doesn’t that flag block the crowd’s view of the ring?

    Meanwhile, British Invasion is solid in every area.

    Hamster Fan:  The British Invasion.

    First of all, so they could get more air time and second of all, because they are more established in the ring, on the mic, and as a team. Overall, they’re better and therefore deserve a shot at Beer Money.

    Charlie Groenwegen:  Mexican America is annoying now. They cut the same promo every week. All they talk about is how they’re being “held down.” They’re still a new team in IMPACT only forming in mid-March and should wait in line a bit longer.

    The British Invasion deserves the title match.The Invasion has the past champion experience, mic skills, look and in-ring skills to be Tag Team Champions once again.

    Come on IMPACT push The British Invasion. Their chances are looking good with the addition of Rob Terry.

    Ben Gartland: Mexican America. The British Invasion has always seemed very bland to me, whereas Hernandez and Anarquia are very entertaining and very skilled in the ring. Not saying that TBI isn’t but, they aren’t very entertaining about it.

Is Eric Young Destroying the (little) Prestige of the Television Title?

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    Rize: To keep it short and sweet, I wouldn’t say he’s devaluing the prestige of the title. Being that EY is a comical character, I feel as if the title would be better with others. Like Crimson, Pope, or Devon for that matter. It would help the characters if they defended it occasion.

    Ryan Frye:  To continue my grumpy theme of this article, yes he is. Listen, Eric Young is a great talent. I wholeheartedly agree with that. My concern with him is his comedy gimmick. He has sunk to the level of challenging camera men? Not exactly what I’d want my mid card champion to be doing.

    We have many talents doing little, like ‘The Pope’ D’Angelo Dinero.

    Hamster Fan:  Eric Young’s the Television champion? I must’ve forgotten.

    Charlie Groenwegen:   I would say so. Yes. He is hurting its prestige by challenging camera-men and fictional characters (Popeye) but I like his segments. EY is what Santino is to the WWE.
    However I don’t like the idea of the strap on EY. I say give it to someone more deserving or credible.

    The Pope is available.

    Ben Gartland:  The question is asked as if the Television title had prestige before Eric Young.
    In my opinion he is doing alright with it. Nothing special, but at least he isn’t disrespecting and throwing it in a trashcan.

    There are certainly better holders for the title (Gunner for instance), but the title is not in serious jeopardy of becoming a joke.

Besides Orton/Christian, What's the Best Current Storyline? (WWE,TNA)

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    Rize: I must say CM Punk/John Cena, and the Money in the Bank storyline. Everyone is looking forward to the pay per view. Unlike the ones that preceded it, the match isn’t predictable. The biggest factor is that we don’t know if Punk will resign or leave the WWE.

    Then there’s the Money in the Bank.

    This plays into the match as most of us expect the winner to cash in on Cena or Punk.  Simply put, it’s mind boggling. 

    Ryan Frye:  Because I’m intrigued with all the possible scenarios, I will choose CM Punk and John Cena. Keep in mind, Sting/Hogan/Bischoff is currently better, but it doesn’t have the same long term implications. Yes, we’re likely to see Hogan turn face, or less likely for a Sting heel turn. Heck, we may even see the two in a match (Bad idea, okay.) Nonethelss, Cena/Punk has many possibilities. 

    Will Punk win, only for Raw’s Money In The Bank winner to cash in?

    Will Punk win, and leave with the title? Perhaps he’ll pull a swerve and stay after beating Cena?

    Who knows, the possibilities are endless, and that’s why I favor it over TNA’s storyline with the oldies.

    Hamster Fan:  Besides Orton/Christian, Styles/Daniels is the best storyline currently happening in either WWE or TNA. They are good friends who can put on a 5-star match any day of the week.
    They can also perform well on the mic. If this storyline is anything like the 2009 one, we may just get the feud of the year with AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels.

    Charlie Groenwegen:  I think IMPACT’s British Invasion vs. Mexican America can cook up something good. I’m also enjoying the feud between Winter & Angelina vs. Mickie James. WWE maybe onto something with this Punk vs. Cena and/or Henry vs. Big Show. I’m going to pick the storyline between Sting, Hogan and Bischoff. Sting’s new Joker character makes this feud 10 times better and more entertaining. I’d like to see where it goes without seeing Hogan compete in a match.

    Ben Gartland:  PUNK! PUNK! PUNK! PUNK! PUNK! PUNK! PUNK! PUNK! PUNK! PUNK! To the tenth power. I very much believe that Punk’s promo is part of a fantastic storyline that will result in the summer of 2011 being very good for the WWE. The entire wrestling world was set on fire in six minutes, there is nothing that can compare to the Punk storyline.

    It’s not Punk and Cena’s storyline, just Punk’s storyline.


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