When I wrote the editorial "Quit Bashing Ohio State! Four Reasons to Believe in Jim Tressel, Buckeyes," I got mostly grief for it. Well, I stand by my comments.
Do any of you stand by your trashing Ohio State the past year? Or this talk about how Ohio State needs to be banned from the national title game? Or how the SEC is overrated because they have "only" been beating Ohio State in the national title game? Please.
A lot of the same people that have been trashing Ohio State the past two years are now mapping a path for USC to get into the national title game. It is disgusting and unfair.
Look, people. Ohio State and USC have practically the same record since 2005. In 2005, USC had one loss and Ohio State had two. Both of them had last minute losses to Texas.
Ohio State had a very close loss (the game turned on one play) to a one-loss Penn State team that probably would have beaten USC, and Ohio State then went on to blow out the Notre Dame team that USC needed luck and accommodating officials (and questionable Charlie Weis game managing in the fourth quarter) in a bowl game.
In 2006, USC lost to No. 24 Oregon State and unranked 6-6 UCLA. Meanwhile, Ohio State lost only to No. 1 Florida. In 2007, an Ohio State team that was supposed to be REBUILDING lost only to No. 1 LSU and No. 15 Illinois. Meanwhile, USC lost to Oregon and STANFORD.
Add it all up, and all Ohio State has been doing is losing to teams that they were supposed to: teams that probably—and in USC's case, definitely—had superior talent, especially at the critical positions.
The only time that Ohio State has been upset in the 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008 seasons was against No. 15 Illinois, a team with which it matches up poorly. Illinois is constructed like an SEC or particularly Big 12 team rather than a Big Ten one.
The only things holding Illinois back are 1) Juice Williams' inability to throw the ball consistently, and 2) Ron Zook's refusal to relinquish control of his defense. Where the former will no longer be a problem after next season, the latter was what got Zook fired at Florida.
While the Illinois game was an upset, it definitely was not a bad loss.
Meanwhile, USC, with its boatload of five-star recruits, high school All-Americans, and future NFL starters, loses (or is severely tested by) teams stocked with far lesser athletes that are struggling for bowl eligibility.
It is not just the losses to Oregon State teams that have been blown out by Penn State, Boise, and Cincinnati. It was the two close calls to Washington, both of which involved questionable late officiating decisions that benefited USC. It was the fact that the loss to Stanford in 2007 came after Stanford was up 21-3 at halftime a few years ago.
It was how they didn't pull away from 3-8 Arizona in 2005 until five minutes remained in the fourth quarter in 2005, and their needing a monster game from Reggie Bush to pull away from 8-4 mid-major Fresno State that same year.
26 comments Last one added 8 months ago — Leave a Comment
Ryan Staab 9 months ago
To be fair, Ohio State looked downright awful in their 35-3 slaughter at the hands of USC. Still, I'd love to hear what Mark May will say about this tomorrow...
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Tyler Robinson 9 months ago
yeah, a real ohio state fan you are. all you do all damn day is look for reasons to disparage "your favorite team" - the fetish is so strong with you, that you've resorted to going to Pac-10 articles just to let everyone know how little you think of "your favorite team of all time" and how shitty you think they are.
stop looking for excuses to rip "your favorite team" and just fuckin' watch them play and root for them.
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Ryan Staab 9 months ago
...The hell?
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Jon Ellsworth 9 months ago
Tyler, wow. Never take a gun to school.
Ryan, Mark May for me is the all-time unintentional comedian. The guy is so foolish and takes himself so seriously, its a wonder his head hasn't exploded.
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Jeff Smirnoff 9 months ago
Tyler, please seek help, ASAP.. Wow...
Great point about Mark May, Jon. He is so frickin' serious it is funny. To see him try and stumble around Notre Dame winning and Lou Holtz calling him out on it was priceless.
But bottom line USC rolled OSU so I think they have a little more leniency than my beloved Bucks.
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jordan krumrey 9 months ago
Dude 35-3 OSU sucks just face it.Yes i'm a wolverine fan and i can even say OSU isn't that great this year.I respect OSU don't get me wrong but no one is gonna really hate on USC.Why? we'll they have lost 3 of last 4 at OSU(Oregon st) so they struggle there but no one knows why.They also didn't get taken the the woodshed and get beaten like a red headed step child like OSU has had happen to them the last three years in big games.Don't hate on USC cause your team isn't what it is expected to be.Fyi i hate the Trojans also.None the less don't be one of these" Oh stop hating on my Buckeyes...blah,blah,blah" people.Have your team win a big game then we will stop hating.Until then let the hate continue on.
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mark skelley 9 months ago
Hasnt ohio state beat michigans asses the last 5 or 6 years please shut your hole idiot
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jordan krumrey 9 months ago
Ouch that really hurt OSU fan has no real comeback so he drops the 5 of 6 as if it hasn't been heard before.OSU fans still can't talk shit about UM but they still do.Remember us winning 10 of 12 before tressel.How much did u all talk then...chances are a lot.How many of ur potential NC seasons did we ruin in the 90's.I know of two.MSU ruined the other one lmao.Why can't OSU fans think of somethin better than 5 of 6 is it OSU is so pathetic that's all the can say they have over us.Again 5 of 6 don't impress in comparison to what we have done in past.
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Jon Ellsworth 9 months ago
Jordan- classy, bud. Take your comments to your handball buddies at recess. You just look bad here.
And the 5 of 6 comeback pretty much owns your arguments. OSU has won that big game quite a bit.
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jordan krumrey 9 months ago
Sorry not really trying to be classless or anything but OSU fans and their trash talk are really starting to piss me off.OSU has made nothing of their oprutunities the last few years constantly embarrassing themselves.But when a team like USC loses a tough team OSU fans expect everyone to jump on them but they don't,therefore OSU fans write articles like this asking why people don't get off of OSU.The reason why people don't hate on USC is for one they didn't play bad like OSU has done they just didn't play good.Oregon st. is alos a tough place to play.They were down 21-0 at one point and lost 27-21 so they showed fight.It wasn't a 41-14 or 35-3 shelacking.I know they aren't loses to teams like Oregon st but if u don't wanna be hated on make the best of your oprutunities and win...and be competitive.USC has been constant NCG contenders since 2003.OSU lucked into last years game.The year before they were favored and suffered one of the worst losses in NCG history.That's why everyone hates OSU they lose bad but the fans still talk crap and act ruthlessly,illogically,and classlessly.
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Gerald Ball 9 months ago
jordan:
"OSU has made nothing of their oprutunities the last few years constantly embarrassing themselves."
Wrong. Failing to score a TD against a UCLA team that was blown off the field by 6 - 6 FSU with a national title berth on the line is embarrassing yourself. Losing at home to a 41 point underdog with a national title berth on the line is embarrassing yourself. And getting shut out in the first half by the same team that gave up 35 to Penn State is embarrassing yourself. And if you don't think those losses have blown opportunities for USC you are nuts. Even if USC runs the table, no way they are going to make the title game over an SEC or Big 12 champion with one loss.
"we'll they have lost 3 of last 4 at OSU(Oregon st) so they struggle there but no one knows why."
I will tell you why. The coaches and players only care about big games and rivalries. In other games, the coaches don't gameplan and the players don't show up. It is pathetic.
"The reason why people don't hate on USC is for one they didn't play bad like OSU has done they just didn't play good."
USC played bad against UCLA. They played bad against Stanford. They played bad against Oregon State (even in the second half they couldn't run the ball, stop the run, or protect Sanchez). And they have played bad in more than a few games that they have won.
"Oregon st. is alos a tough place to play."
All right. Name another elite team that has any trouble whatsoever playing in Corvallis. What other top 5 or top 10 teams has Corvallis knocked off? People claim this "Oregon State is a tough place to play" only because USC loses there. But when SEC teams beat Ohio State, people say big deal, Ohio State is overrated.
"USC has been constant NCG contenders since 2003."
Untrue. USC was handed a title that they did nothing to merit by the pollsters after failing to defeat a single top 10 team in 2003. Now they WERE national title contenders in 2004 and 2005. But claiming that they were contending for anything in 2006 and 2007 is a joke. They were just another 2 loss team just like everybody else. Who did USC beat those years? That's right ... Arkansas and Nebraska. Look, genius. Oklahoma and Ohio State have been in more BCS championship games than USC, and LSU has won more.
"but if u don't wanna be hated on make the best of your oprutunities and win"
You mean like USC did when they blew their national title shots against 4 - 8 Stanford and 6 - 6 UCLA? You do realize that Stanford was playing their backup QB in that game, right?
"and be competitive"
You mean like how Michigan was in 2006 against USC? Or how Michigan was in 2003 against USC? Or maybe it was how Michigan was in 2007 against Appalachian State? Do you know when was the last time that Michigan won a major bowl game? 1999! Against the biggest idiot EVER to coach at the University of Alabama! And guess what? You aren't going to win a major bowl game this year either! Not with Illinois, Penn State, Michigan State, Minnesota, and OHIO STATE on your schedule! You would be extremely fortunate to go 3 - 2 against that slate!
And yes, Ohio State was 2 - 10 against Michigan. Which is precisely what makes criticizing Tressel and Ohio State so idiotic. Would it have been better if they lost to Michigan but beat LSU and Florida? Well had they lost to Michigan, they would have never played LSU and Florida to begin with. Just like USC didn't. And just like your team didn't in 2006. It is idiotic to criticize a team that puts itself in position to play for a national title when other teams don't even do that? What makes you think that Michigan would have beaten Florida in 2006 if Michigan couldn't beat Ohio State or USC in 2006? What makes you think that USC would have beaten LSU or Florida if they couldn't beat UCLA and Stanford?
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Jeff Smirnoff 9 months ago
Um, Jordan, wasn't UM supposed to be a NC contender last year with all their seniors returning and being reved up?
How did last year work out for ya?
So I think you need to look in the mirroe before spouting your "tOSU has done nothing with their opportunities the last few years".
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jordan krumrey 9 months ago
Jeff i will be first to tell u we were overated last year.We weren't NC contenders and reason for that was we were replacing what was it 5 defensive draft picks and 4 of which were 1st team All-Americans(Hall,Harris,Woodley,Branch).Only returned i think 3-4 starters on D.Our offense wasn't that great and it never had been that great we only average like 28 ppg with them.Granted they were never really that healthy until UF game and looked what happened there...
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Nick R 9 months ago
Response to Gerald:
When was the last time Oregon State HOSTED a highly ranked team aside from USC (they were as close in the 2004 season as anyone... and USC in 2004 was the best college football team since the 1995 Cornhuskers)? They HAVE gone on the road to face some good teams OOC in recent years (Penn State, LSU, Boise State in their Fiesta Bowl season, the Ducks when they were top 5 in the nation, the Huskies when they were a Rose Bowl team), but LSU never came to play in Corvallis, Penn State hasn't been there yet, and BSU won't be ranked that highly until another season like 2006.
I can remember a highly ranked Oregon team in 2000 that OSU waxed all over the field (that same Ducks team beat Texas in the Holiday Bowl, had 2 losses on the season). Other than them, and USC, I think there's a lack of information. However, OSU has a very good home record, which sort of suggests it is a tough place to play. It is, without question, a tough place for USC to play.
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Kristofer Green 9 months ago
"Last season, coaching a new (and pedestrian) QB Todd Boeckman and a bunch of yeomen WRs (Brian Hartline, Terry Robiskie, and Brian Small are NOT first round draft picks"
Brian Robiskie (Terry is his dad) and Ray Small (not Brian)
The reason Todd Boeckman was benched was because, as you even admit, he was pedestrian at best. Why not give Pryor a chance. He proved against Troy, that with the same running backs Todd had in the frist three games and an offensive line that was not the same because of injury that he gave the Buckeyes more of an opportunity to win the game.
Todd is a class act and a team player and I like the guy, but he had his chances. And through 3 games this season he didn't deliver. That's six games overall counting the last three of last season. He has not improved.
Terrelle Pryor didn't put the whole college football world through a dog and pony show. That's ridiculous. The kid was making one of the most important decisions of his life. Why should he rush it just so the masses can "know". This was his decision and he had every right in the world to take as much time as he wished. The media made it into a dog and pony show, not Pryor.
I digress... I agree with the overall sentiment of your article.
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Gerald Ball 9 months ago
Kristofer:
Yes, Boeckman had his shot. And you know what he did? Led you guys to a Big 10 title and the national title game in a rebuilding year! Had a 13 - 3 record as a starter! It isn't Boeckman's fault that Archie Griffin's program can't recruit more than one elite RB every 10 years, or that his WRs are backups. As for Terrelle Pryor, had the fellow early enrolled, well imagine how much better he'd be by now! I know, his main issue was that his dad wanted him to go to Penn State so he'd be close to home. Same issue with Vidal Hazelton a few years ago. Still, Boeckman is the guy who put his time in and deserved to A) go out a winner and B) take the obligatory 4 year NFL career as a backup as all Ohio State players get. I just don't like this whole "national title or bust" mentality that has taken over college football. Boeckman would have still gotten Ohio State to another Big 10 title and the Rose Bowl, and he deserved that opportunity. Do you honestly think that a true freshman will get the Buckeyes past Wisconsin and Penn State?
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Kristofer Green 9 months ago
"Yes, Boeckman had his shot. And you know what he did? Led you guys to a Big 10 title and the national title game in a rebuilding year! Had a 13 - 3 record as a starter!"
No one disputes this fact. The problem is that he has not improved.
"It isn't Boeckman's fault that Archie Griffin's program can't recruit more than one elite RB every 10 years..."
This is a ludicris statement. Elite is a relative term. You do not have to be elite to be productive. Antonio Pittman was not considered an elite back but many, but still produced many 100+ yard games. Maurice Clarrett, though a stain on the program, was an elite back. Jonathon Wells, very productive while at Ohio State. That's four in Tressel's seven years! Who knows what will become of Daniel Herron. He could very well be the next in line. He is only a true freshman. Next season the Buckeyes will welcome 5 star recruit Jamal Berry, who could also turn out to be elite.
"...or that his WRs are backups."
What! This disproves your original point. Boeckman had no trouble the beginning of last season connecting with these "back-ups". And Pryor has had no problem connecting with them in his first two games as a starter.
"Still, Boeckman is the guy who put his time in and deserved to A) go out a winner..."
Since when does putting your time in and deserving to do anything mean a thing? It means nothing in football. Most any coach will tell you that you play the player that is playing the best.
"...and B) take the obligatory 4 year NFL career as a backup as all Ohio State players get."
Yes, because every OSU player that is drafted into the NFL has such a horrible career. I could list 2 dozen former OSU players who made or are still making an impact in the NFL without having to do any research.
"I just don't like this whole "national title or bust" mentality that has taken over college football."
Winning a National Championship has always and should always be the ultimate goal. Why else would you play the game? And I can guarentee you that the OSU team does not think their season is busted. As an OSU fan, I can guarentee you the vast majority of fans don't think the season is busted.
"Boeckman would have still gotten Ohio State to another Big 10 title and the Rose Bowl, and he deserved that opportunity."
How do you know?
"Do you honestly think that a true freshman will get the Buckeyes past Wisconsin and Penn State?"
I honestly think the true freshman gives us a great shot at winning those games. He gives the offense more opportunities. He gives the opposing defenses more to worry about.
I am not saying that Pryor will never have a bad game. That would be naive. At some point this season he will and when he does Boeckman could have another opportunity. But right now and for this team how can you honestly say the offense was better with Boeckman than it is is with Pryor. And isn't that what is most important?
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James Roth 8 months ago
FYI - Back-up info for you. Another reason TP didn't commit on signing day was he was currently playing in the Pennsylvania State Basketball Tournament. The tournament was help where? Happy Valley. Using a lot of common sense and foresight, he didn't announce his choice so that he and his team would avoid the PENN ST boo birds should his team make it to the finals (They won the State champiionship). Think of how distracting that could have been for his teammates and himself when playing on what could be considered TP's first big stage, albeit in another sport.
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brandon loveless 9 months ago
Ohio State will never get any love. Period. Even when, and I say when, they win the big one finally, they will still get a lot of hate. Simple as that. They are not USC, they don't play in the SEC. Even when they beat a pretty well stacked Miami team a few years ago they got bashed, saying it was luck and bad officiating. Everyone will bash the Big Ten as well. No one will point out that the Big Ten is 11 wins and 11 losses against SEC teams, sure they are not as strong as the glory days of the Big Ten, but since when is the PAC 10 a tough conference? You've got USC and that's about it. Oregon is overrated every year, and that's pretty much the only good teams in the conference. Ohio State isn't good. That's why they lost to USC. But USC isn't good either. It's like two crap teams playing, and the one that wins is automatically crowned BCS champion, when its the third game of the season. The media is quick to jump on the bandwagon before sitting back and realizing that its only the third game.
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Jon Ellsworth 9 months ago
It's tough to give OSU love when they've dropped 2 championship games in a row when they've gotten all the hype. You do have to respect their record, though. Tressell is the man. He's just had SEC teams get the better of him.
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Gerald Ball 9 months ago
Jon:
This shows our difference of perspective. It was tough for me to respect FSU in the 1990s back when they were resigning themselves to losing to Miami every year, even when Miami obviously wasn't any good. It is tough for me to respect USC when their 5 star recruits are just looking for an easy path to the NFL, their players don't care enough to show up half the time, and the coach doesn't care enough to make changes. I can deal with programs that lose to better teams. No matter whether Ohio State was going to lose to Florida and LSU by 1 point or 100, they were going to lose. What I can't deal with is programs that have a consistent pattern of simply not trying and living with excuses.
Tressel is honestly trying to fix things. After the Florida loss, he started recruiting some more athletic OTs from outside the midwest. It is just that the guys are true sophomores (or redshirt freshmen) not ready to play yet. And Tressel's tactics to land Terrelle Pryor ... promising a recruit significant playing time and offering to make major changes in the offense to accommodate him when he had a returning fifth year senior that led them to a Big 10 title and national title game ... you KNOW that it is a huge departure for Tressel, right?
Speaking of being willing to live with excuses, I also cannot respect the ACC programs in the 1990s and the USC programs today that aren't even trying to build national contenders.
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Jon Ellsworth 9 months ago
Gerald, I thought I gave Tressell respect here.
And you seem to have everyone else pinned pretty well in negative light. That's one reason no one should take your word for it. You can defend your team with your bias, but calling other teams out a "not trying" or "making excuses" just makes you look the fool when it seems your team falls into the same holes as many others.
Tressell's team looks like any other team- they don't have any kind of saintly past of everyone sticking around to graduate. Give me a break.
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Nick R 9 months ago
Here's where you are wrong, ignorant, lazy, or just being silly:
1) Jacquizz Rodgers ran a total of 14 times against Stanford, and played (generously) half of their downs. The coaches didn't give him the ball, and it is clear that the o-line is vastly superior now than it was a month ago (night and day difference, if you bothered watching an Oregon State game this season, between the Penn State game and the Hawaii game). A freshman in his first game, and what do you know? He was underutilized. Did you, did you bother watching the Penn State-Oregon State game? He was the only bright spot on the entire team, and even then he wasn't used all that much (because OSU was behind all day).
2) Oregon State is notorious for bad starts to the season. Notice that all of those embarrassing losses you mention come in the first three or four weeks of the college football season? This needs to be fixed, but it's like clockwork, and it's clear that they are better now than they were 3 or 4 weeks ago.
3) Oregon State plays USC (at home) as well as anyone in the country. Can't argue with the results, OSU is 2-1 since Pete Carroll took over. Again, that loss is against the best team USC has had, and it was a nail biter. I was there, trust me. Hard to see a game in the fog.
4) USC fails in one area: they don't get up for the lesser games. However, unlike Ohio State (or Oklahoma, Georgia, or most other programs you can name) they are the best program in the big game. They've lost one game in the last five or six years, and has trounced their opponent in every other one.
5) It isn't the OOC teams that are beating USC... but, yes, that somehow reflects poorly on the Pac10.
6) If you are going to knock USC for close games, Ohio State needs to be mocked as much, if not more. Nobody cares that the OSU wins close games, they care that they lose BIG games (except against Michigan, of course), and by a large number of points when an OOC opponent comes up.
7) Most teams (indeed, even USC and Ohio State) recruit mainly in their own regions (or nearby regions). And both of those programs go after DIFFERENT talent. Indeed, they are differently constructed teams, and they run wholly different offenses and defenses. That's probably why USC is better than Ohio State... it isn't just the talent, it's style of play.
8) If you're going to rip a program for not winning all the national titles with high-level recruits, well, USC should not be at the top of your list of failures. There are a few SEC teams that have recruiting classes that rank roughly as high as USC, yet they are LESS successful than the Trojans (not just in the regular season, but in bowl games, big games, and OOC games). Ohio State sure isn't THAT far behind in the "don't succeed as much as possible" category... yet they can't win against big-time OOC opponents.
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Nick R 9 months ago
... I mean, they have lost one big, national-stage game in the last 5 or 6 years.
That deserves to be discussed that their players sit on their laurels, but if you want any team or coach to go out and win a national title, BCS bowl, or big game against a top 10 team, USC is without a doubt the best team in college football to choose.
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James Roth 9 months ago
Not any more they aren't, and won't get a chance this year. Hey Michigan Fans, 1-6 since Tressel arrived, you need to shut your pie hole. RichRod sure is making your program look good. Oops Appalachian State needs another cupcake win, go back and play them again. Hey don't say OSU sucks in OOC games. They are 25-3 since 2002. Those three losses are to LSU, FLA, and Texas, and included in the 25 wins are games against Texas (as defending NC's), Miami (FLA) (NC GAME), Washington St, Texas Tech, Notre Dame (Fiesta Bowl. before they fell from Grace), Kansas St (Fiesta Bowl), Oklahoma St (Alamo Bowl), and BIG CONFERENCE GAMES INCLUDING 6-1 against MICHIGAN since Tressel arrived. To be honest, of Ohio State went 1-11 for the year, but that one win was against the Pukerines, I'd be satisfied every year.
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James Roth 9 months ago
BTW, Gerald - GREAT article. I'm tired of the media making those high priced college players for the trojans our to be the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be. Two bad perfomances in NC games and all of a sudden your program sucks. What other programs have been in three BCS Championship games in the past 6 years. You can't be a puchover and get there. Granted they kind of backed into it last year after losing to Illinois, but it seemed other teams like Missouri, West Virginia, USC, Gerogia, and Kansas couldn't seal the deal late either. Everyone knows OSU needed a lot of help (and luck) to get there last year, and it just happened. Can't wait til USC comes to the Horseshoe next year. Hope the Big 10 officials are as biased as the PAC 10 officials were when we went to LA.
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