Derek Jeter seems to have cemented himself a spot within the Hall of Fame, right?
Not so fast.
The career .317 hitter has one thing really going for him offensively...and it's that .317 mark.
It's nothing special, either.
Among active players go, that ranks fifth behind Ichiro Suzuki, Todd Helton, Albert Pujols, and Vladimir Guerrero.
As far as career batting average goes, Jeter ranks 63rd; Guerrero is ranked 43rd career. Quite a difference.
Still think the Yankee captain's a surefire Hall of Famer?
Just examine the other columns of the box score.
Last year Jeter swiped only 15 bags, and he averages only 23 per year. His 15 steals last year ranked 10th among active shortstops.
Derek Jeter also ranks only 7th among active shortstops in career OPS+. Notable players he ranks behind in this statistic include Hanley Ramirez, Nomar Garciaparra, and teammate Alex Rodriguez, using his years at shortstop.
For a historic example, let's compare Derek Jeter to former Reds great Barry Larkin.
Larkin, former captain of the lowly Reds, had a phenomenal career, but he will have a challenging time making the Hall of Fame, due to his team's poor performance in the later years of his career.
I think, after comparing the two head to head, Larkin's a better player. Offensively, Jeter strikes out almost twice as much as Larkin did, 114 per year to 61 per year. Jeter's also only hit a maximum of 24 HR in a year, compared with Larkin hitting 33 in 1996.
And is Jeter the defensive ace he's cracked up to be?
Both Larkin and Jeter have career fielding percentages of .975. But Larkin's range factor beats Jeter's by almost 20 points.
Jeter and Larkin have extremely similar stats, so I think it's safe to say, that if Jeter deserves enshrinement, Larkin should get in with ease.
I'll conclude by allowing you to speculate what Larkin's numbers would have been like had he been on a great team like the Yankees and surrounded by stars at every position.
And consider the flipside: Would Jeter even be thought of as a Hall of Fame-caliber player if he played for a team like the Reds?
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9 months ago
To answer your final question, no.
But the Reds wouldn't be a bunch of downtrodden bums if they had a guy like Jeter on their team.
I'm a Met fan. I go to be every night hoping Yankee Stadium sinks into the Bronx River.
But I will tell you this. Derek Jeter is a great baseball player. I hate to admit it, but it's true.
Statistically he may pale in comparison to the others you mentioned. But the game is not played on paper. When the game is on the line, he comes through. He leads by example. He comes to play every day and gives 110%. As a Met fan I can personally tell you that he's buried us many a time with his glove, bat, legs and savvy.
During the World Baseball Classic, the USA got skunked. They even lost to Canada. Griffey had great week, he hit .524 with 3 HRs and 11 RBI.
Right behind him in the batting leaders - Derek Jeter - .450.
9 months ago
Cool idea for an article and Barry Larkin is a great choice for a comparison. Their numbers are so simliar.
The difference in my mind is that we can reasonably expect Jeter to perform well for another 5 years. As long as he doesn't get hurt, Jeter will pass Larkin sometime in the next couple years. If Jeter's career were to end today, I'd favour him as a Hall of Famer over Larkin only because of what he's done in the postseason (153 hits!).
And I think that today, it doesn't matter where you play as long as you put up results. I mean no one's going to short-change a guy like Helton or Hoffman for playing in a small market.
9 months ago
Bashing Jeter again. The guy is a great baseball player. Some people seem to want to point to the fact that if he was a player with another team, he'd wouldn't get the press or the rings he got with the Yankees. The fact of the matter is he is with the Yankees. He didn't steal the job. He's been with them all his career. Others have come and gone on the team and he is still there. Just luck? No he has talent. We can ask a million hypothetical questions about all great players. Would Big Papi be who he is if he was still with Minn? Would Manny be Manny in Cleveland? Would Yogi and DiMaggio be icons if they played the bulk of their careers with Philly, or Pittsburg? The fact is he is a great player with a historic team who got and kept the job because he is actually good at what he does. There are plenty of people who do it better with stats in certain areas...but that doesan't always get you the press you desire or the rings you want. Look to your right....A-rod is the perfect example. Need I say more?
8 months ago
Dude, you've written 3 ridiculously fuckin' stupid articles. Just stop already.
I'm not a Jeter fan, and I do think he is overrated in the sense that he's not a very good defensive shortstop and he's not one of the all-time greats that all of his exposure might imply he is.
But he's still an excellent player and is going to have AMAZING career numbers. If he plays as long as he's projected to, he'll end up with nearly 4,000 hits....not to mention probably 6 or 7 championship rings, a ton of All Star nods, and a handful of Gold Gloves (deserved or not).
Your articles are terrible and you are a stupid person.
from 8 months ago
really? And you're a frickin pussy for posting anonymously...
8 months ago
Andrew,
You're an idiot! If Jeter is not on the Yanks, they don't win their championships...period. Does anyone remember the flip? It is Jeter's ability to elevate his game when it's most important (clutch) that really sets him apart from the rest.
from 8 months ago
Another person bashing me anonymously... Have some balls.
8 months ago
if i had nine derek jeter's on my team, you could have any team you want and you lose.clutch hit oh yeah you forgot.if you want to write one sided comment's influenced by personal likes and dislike's at least give the whole story
from 8 months ago
frankly, i don't actually listen to people who post anonymously...
8 months ago
I totally understand the desire to hate a player just because everyone else likes them. I feel the same way about Tom Brady. Being a big Jeter or Brady fan is just so...pedestrian. It puts you at risk for being thrown into league with the starry eyed 12 year old girls and the bandwagoners. BUT I still respect Brady as a player. I don't like him, but I would never question his talent. Jeter should be afforded the same consideration. Further, steals, defense, whatever - you can make anyone look bad if you pick the right stat. So he ranks 63rd all-time in average...out of the thousands of people who have played professional baseball, 63 isn't too shabby. I hate the Yankees as much as the next person, but I wouldn't feel right ignoring the talent that makes them what they are.
8 months ago
This article isn't far fetched at all. It's not about hating Jeter, it's about recognizing the fact that Jeter plays on the biggest stage in baseball and sports. He's a great team guy but fans are always somehow tricked into believing he's a shoe-in Hall of Famer.
Fans naturally want to embrace the clean-cut, all-business guy. And, as a result, they eventually begin to think he's something more.
Oh, and the anonymous coward who posted above with all the name calling is interesting. Apparently, he feels your articles are "ridiculously effing stupid" yet it appears he's read every one thoroughly. So, you gotta wonder, what does that make him?
8 months ago
Great article, Andrew. The Larkin-Jeter comparison makes a lot of sense, and once again we have a player getting more hype because of where he plays. What if Jeter plays his whole career in Kansas City? He'd be just another mediocre nobody.
8 months ago
I love how the people who go off criticizing me are too scared to post using their actual profiles... Oh boy... Jeter's clutch huh? Take a look at some more stats:
Derek Jeter career average: .317. Career Postseason average: .310
Derek Jeter average with RISP: .311
With a runner on second, 1st and 3rd open: hitting only .279.
Take a look at these splits... not as clutch on paper as you may think...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?year=0&n1=jeterde01
8 months ago
Awesome research! I'm loving this piece more and more... I can only hope that the baseball writers will not overlook the stats that you bring up.
8 months ago
Derek Jeter has solidified his place in Yankee history and the hall of fame. I agree, is he the best in baseball? NO. But, sometimes there is a player who trancends the numbers, Derek Jeter is one of those. Those players are few and far between. Go beyond his numbers, it's his character, how he conducts himself on and off the field, how he leads the team, and he is a legacy. He doesn't want to play anywhere else, he is the face of the New York Yankees. If he were playing for another team. Well, his fielding in his younger days was supreme...he's a little older now and doesn't jump as high anymore. I agree, he might just be another player somewhere else. The marriage between Derek Jeter and the New York Yankees was just meant to be and a total success....they are soul mates.
8 months ago
Alluding to the "clutch" statistics: No mention is made of the superior opposition faced in the post season as compared to the "average" MLB talent. Most post season teams get there on the strength of their pitching. Wouldn't you agree that .310 in the post season is more impressive than .317 in the regular season? The same with the other stats. One final note: Is there a stat that measures a player's propensity to take an extra base on a batted ball? Jeter, wih his uncanny ability, almost never, ever gets thrown out attempting to take an extra base. Look it up!
from 8 months ago
Okay... maybe you didn't notice... but there's a .007 difference in average for the worst for him in the postseason... and no... that's not actually real good... The average difference in average between regular and postseason is... get ready for this... near .000...
8 months ago
Isn't everyone forgetting the number of hits he has in his career? He has 2356 hits so far. He will have 2500 hits next year if he stays healthy and he is only going to be 34. He is not a power hitter so he isn't going to wear down as much. He is a contact hitter and he would still be one if he was with the Reds, Red Sox, Mets, Tigers or Devil Rays. There is a great chance that he will get 3000 hits in his career so he would be in the HOF anyway.
He needs 644 hits for 3000 in his career.
8 months ago
One MAJOR problem with your argument; Jeter is 34 and STILL PLAYING, he takes great care of himself, and will play another 5 or 6 years.
Jeter had 206 hits last season and averages over 200+ hits a year. Taking a conservative estimate averaging 150 hits over the next 6 years gives him 900 hits. Added to the 2,356 he has going into the 2008 season, would give him a total of 3,256 hits at the end of his career. Barry Larkin ended with 2,340 hits almost the exact total Jeter has RIGHT NOW.
Jeter also has 1,379 lifetime runs scored, and he almost certainly will end up with over 2,000 lifetime runs scored. Larkin had 1,329. So unless Jeter gets hit with a bus he is going to far exceed Larkin in hits and runs scored.
If you are saying a player with over 3,300 hits should NOT be in the HOF? If so than I really question how in the world you where given a job writing for a publication. You my friend are a fool.
As for your statement what if Jeter weren’t a Yankee. What if Tom Brady played for the Detroit Lions?
from 8 months ago
still trying to figure out where I said I had a job writing a publication... whatever. I was simply trying to see what he'd be like if he wasn't a Yankee... settle down...
8 months ago
Sorry about having no account on this, so you can flame me for being anon ;). I am a Red Sox fan though, so you ain't going to see a bias towards Jeter particularly, haha. I think that a comparison of Larkin and Jeter is a reasonable one on the categories you made. Except that Jeter is indeed still playing. I mean, I'm not crazy like the poster who thinks that he'll end up with 4,000 hits (whaaa?) but even considering a later decline he should get over 3,000 hits. Right now, their individual statistics are pretty comparable- except Larkin has more SB. And Larkin probably was a better shortstop. Not that I think Jeter is bad, but I never saw a player fear hitting one on that side of the field, haha.
Personally, I think Larkin deserves great consideration for the Hall- and this is a pretty good piece to back that up. However, by the same merit- you'd have to say Jeter would deserve consideration even if he retired today. ... And he has probably 2 or 3 good years left, plus maybe 3 Biggio-style decline ones. Also, while playing on the Yankees seems like a good thing- it's a tough place to want to do your whole career in. While your counting stats like R or RBI are going to soar, your total years played might be limited. Bernie Williams is a great example- he still had a lot to offer a club, just not to the Yankees club. Since Jeter won't play anywhere else probably, this could knock 2 or 3 full time years off the end of his career. Just something to consider. He may be a smarmy bastard, but even the Hall needs some of those. Hey, at least so far he seems clean!
8 months ago
jeez, in the modern era (1961-present), Jeter is 3rd among all shortstops in OPS+ (min. 400 games). the only guys ahead of him (arod and nomar) haven't even played there in years.
jeter's no power hitter, but he does everything else, and doing it at shortstop is all the more valuable. he was robbed of the '06 MVP (led the AL in VORP) as well.
8 months ago
Re: Post season stats vs regular season stats
It appars you are comparing the BAs of all post season players to the BAs of all MLB players i general. This is not the situation to which I was referring. A better comparioso would be the regular season averages of the players in the post season against their post season averages. (i.e. A-Rod):
5 months ago
Ok genius. Your article compares Derek Jeter to a damn fine player. You use this as evidnece that Jeter is overrated. Larin was a great player. So is Jeter. So Larkin should be a Hall of Famer? So what? So should Jeter.
According to http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jeterde01.shtml Jeter's most similar to Barry Larkin -- very good. C out some other names on the list:
Alan Trammell
Ryne Sandberg
Arky Vaughan
Bobby Doerr
Kirby Puckett
Bill Dickey
Not bad company for one so "overrated". Shut up and enjoy whatever midwestern team it is you root far and leave Jeter alone. Enough whining already.
3 months ago
Absolutely ludicrous article - Derek Jeter is the definition of clutch.. ALL-TIME leader in postseason hits, and his average with RISP is nearly ALWAYS top 5 in the league and his average with RISP and two outs is astronomical.. And you seem to forget, in the late 90s when the Yankees ruled baseball, he was not SURROUNDED by stars, my friend.. he was surrounded by a few.. but he played with an extremely cohesive team.. to even COMPARE Barry Larkin to Derek Jeter is just a huge personal bias in one way or another... DJ is one of the greatest players to ever play the game, power numbers excluded.. and power numbers are highly overrated in winning a championship, sir. A-Rod is a huge offensive force, but in a big situation, ANY Yankee fan will tell you, DJ is the man they want up with their season on the line... why? Because of his past.. Only TWO players have acquired more hits than Jeter by the age 34 and NEITHER of them are Pete Rose.. (Ty Cobb, and Robin Yount) Jeter is ahead of Rose hits wise, in games played AND age.. not impressive? Game winning/tying HRs in the World Series.. not impressive? You are certainly not a very attentive writer, sir.
3 months ago
Since Derek Jeter's major league debut on May 29, 1995, no player has more hits. Not a one. The guy is on pace for somewhere around 3,500 hits, maybe even more. He is the all-time leader in playoff hits, games played, runs scored, all that stuff. The guy is unbelievable. And all of the garbage about him being the worst fielding shortstop in the league is just crap. Sure, the guy makes his share of errors, but he has more range than just about any other shortstop in the game. He almost made a ridiculous play today against the Mets on the second baseman's side of the bag. Don't forget the guy also has 3 gold gloves. And when it all comes down to it, the guy is a winner, and a great example for young players.
Oh, and if your going to compare him to somebody, make it with somebody in which there is actually a comparison. Don't just be a homer and pick somebody from your own team. This article is a joke.
about 1 month ago
Andrew you are absolutely correct however what i think everyone ignores or simply does not know is how poorly jeter really does perform in the clutch ....especially in the post season.... now if someone will only take a little closer look at the myth of how jeter is such a great clutch hitter…. when does this clutchness supposedly occur? not in the post season where his rbi ratio, obp,slug pct,ops,hitting with runners in scoring position and late and close stats goes down… way down with regard to late and close and runners in scoring position…..not even close….those stats don’t lie…. only his average remains roughly the same… what about during the regular year? well hitting late and close is at .286 for his career and hitting with runners in scoring position is below his career average…. so how does he raise his game in those situations? what about his career batting average in the ninth innings? well about .235 for his career… how is he so great with the bat when he averages 75 rbi a year on an american league team that usually scores the most runs…by accident you would have to drive in that many with that lineup… incidentally check out his average once he gets 2 strikes on him…. not saying he is a bad hitter obviously he can hit for average…. but he does not deserve the accolades he gets for his hitting when he in fact struggles in the clutch…. especially in the post season… don’t take my word for it… check it out…
about 1 month ago
for the record the stats posted by Rich ( above) are off .... way off... jeter does not usually fall within the top 5 with runners in scoring position.... rarely in fact...his average with 2 outs and risp? .310 for his career... good? sure... astronomical? of course not ... if in fact he was such a great clutch hitter he would by definition have more rbi....and not average 75 a year ....and his failure to come thru in the clutch in the post season is glaring... look it up... check out how many post season rbi he has? check out how many times he has been up? look.... he is of course a very good player just not as great as many think... and is absolutely not as clutch as the media want us to think.. ... watching the yankee now... they tell us time and time again that a-rod is now 5 for his last 27... but do they tell us jeter is 2 for his last 16? of course not.... do they tell us he is hitting .261 in innings 7-9 this year? of course not.... do they tell us he has hit .282 for his CAREER in innings 7-9??? of course not...
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