The small forward position is the most diverse position in the NBA, mainly because the job descriptions of small forwards vary with each of the NBA’s 30 franchises.
Peja Stojakovic and Jason Kapono are three-point marksmen with no other appreciable skills. Bruce Bowen, Shane Battier, and James Posey are premier defensive specialists with little appreciable offensive talent. Gerald Wallace and Andrei Kirilenko are athletic high flyers on offense, and especially, on defense.
Paul Pierce, Brandon Roy, Hedo Turkoglu, and Caron Butler are asked to do everything for their teams, and they do it well. Carmelo Anthony needs the ball to be explosive, Matt Harpring does all his work without the ball, and Boris Diaw is at his best when he’s delivering the ball to someone else.
This list does not take into account a player’s future prospects or past salad days. The criteria is simple, and framed as a question it is: Which NBA small forward is best suited to being an integral part of a championship team this year?
Due to the way some NBA lineups are presently constructed, a handful of potential small forwards will be asked to play different positions this year. For that reason, Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, and Rashard Lewis are listed as power forwards.
No rookies made the list. We haven't seen them play in meaningful games against meaningful competition, so we can't know where they should be ranked.
With the formalities taken care of, the list.
1. LeBron James—Cleveland Cavaliers
Spectacularly athletic, James is easily the best small forward in the NBA, and has a chance to be one of the best ever. James is exceptionally quick with an explosive first step, but it’s his linebacker strength that allows him to discard contact and finish in hostile crowds and enables him to be the premier finisher in the league.
James is also blessed with tremendous court vision which allows him to spot open teammates when defenses are converging on him. His defense has improved considerably from his first years in the league, as he is no longer a defensive liability, and he has actually become a well above-average defender.
James’ jumper tends to abandon him, and he rarely plays off the ball, two characteristics that hold him below Kobe Bryant as the best player in the game. Nonetheless, given James' talent and the fact that he’s steadily improved each year in the league, it's clear that there is every possibility that James will someday be mentioned among the basketball immortals.
2. Paul Pierce—Boston Celtics
Pierce was Mr. Everything in Boston’s most important games last season. He was the one with the ball in his hands in crunch time, when the Celtics needed somebody to deliver a key score or a key pass. He was the one who defended opposing teams’ best players, often shutting them down.
Aggressive enough to finish in contact, unselfish enough to defer to teammates with better matchups, and clutch enough to always come through when it matters, Pierce is a complete and total basketball player.
122 comments Last one added 9 months ago — Leave a Comment
Jeff Axel 10 months ago
Gerald wallace is better than lamar odom because odom looked scared in the finals. I agree with Pierce at 2nd right behind Lebron i feel that he's been overlooked for a while until this year
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
In fairness, Carmelo Anthony's been clueless in every NBA playoff game he's ever played in, and I'm sure everybody will think that my placing him at number 4 is a stretch. Wallace hasn't even had a meaningful role on a playoff team yet, and I'm not sure he's a better individual defender or offensive player that Odom is.
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
Erick didnt catch the 06-07 playoffs where Melo lit up the Spurs at a 30+ppg clip and Iverson choked away the series..... obviously.
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Steven Resnick 10 months ago
Where's Stephen Jackson or do you have him as shooting guard?
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
With Maggette at the 3 and Ellis/Williams at the point, Jackson is Golden State's 2-guard.
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Cameron Jerde 10 months ago
roy's a combo guard and not a small foreward, but thanks for writing so positively about our future superstar!!!
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
He's a small forward in name only...he guards opposing small forwards most of the time, and he plays inside the arc, while Martell Webster often guards 2-guards and drifts behind the three-point line on offense.
Maybe I just have a vendetta against the league for declaring Roy a shooting guard.
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Cameron Jerde 10 months ago
haha nice,
i actually think this is the year that Outlaw starts over Webster
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nate jones 10 months ago
I like a lot of this list but Bowen and Turkoglu over guys like AK47, tayshaun, smith, odom, gay, and andre Ig??? Don't fall into the trap of believing that Bowen is still an elite defender. He has lost more than one step over the past several seasons. Remember, Tim Duncan is sitting right there behind Bowen, waiting to block or change the shot of any man who tries to get past Bowen. Also, he can only hit threes from the corner. He is the classic "system player." If this list is meant to judge who, if you could choose you would most want on your team (meaning any team in the league), it is hard for me to believe that anyone would rather have Bruce Bowen than Josh Smith.
Also, I would take Ryan Gomes over Grant Hill and Boris Diaw 8 days a week.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Bowen still disrupts everything a player tries to do along the perimeter. He shut down Nash and Stojakovic, and forced Kobe into difficult shot after difficult shot. He's also shown a pull-up jumper when defenders close out too hard. AK47 and Prince can be pushed aside by any player with strength. Odom can't focus, Gay has no idea how to defend one-on-one or succeed in a halfcourt offense. Iguodala's jumper leaves much to be desired and I don't think he's as fast as many people claim he is.
Turkoglu, meanwhile, can do just about anything except not turn the ball over. Plus, he's remarkably clutch.
The criteria for my lists is who would I want on my team assuming I have a collection of random teammates at the other positions. With random teammates, I want somebody who can either score and make plays, or somebody who can shut down that playmaker. Since I assume that Bowen can neutralize virtually any other small forward in the league, I want him as an early pick.
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Brandon Hoffman 10 months ago
Good read. But I think Brandon Roy & Andre Iguodala should be considered shooting guards. They may play the small forward spot from time to time, but that's not their primary position.
Just my two cents..
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Someone on another site mentioned how Roy actually plays 35% more at the shooting guard than at the small forward position. I see both him and Webster as swingmen, and Roy fills most traditional small forward duties, while Webster lounges around behind the three-point line and defends two-guards.
With Iguodala, he almost exclusively played the three last year, and since I'm unsure as to whether or not Willie Green or Thaddeus Young will be the starter, I have to give AI at the small forward spot, the benefit of the doubt.
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mark gilmore 10 months ago
Putting "Catch-and-Shoot" Anthony at #4 is definitely a stretch. He is an amazing offensive player at times, when he's not trying to hit a 3 every time he touches the ball. When he learns to choose his shots and put the slightest amount of effort into defense, he'll deserve the praise he gets. I'm glad to see Battier getting some respect, though. I'm not even a Rockets fan, but that guy has always been a great player and never gets the attention he deserves.
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mark gilmore 10 months ago
Oh...and Matt Harpring is actually a quarterback disguised as a basketball player...he played QB in high school.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Cool, I didn't know what position he played. In the NBA though, he does all the hitting.
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Stephane Morneau 10 months ago
Nice read but Tayshaun Prince, that low?
I would have put him way ahead of Maggette and Jefferson for sure. Actually, he would have been 6th or 7th on my list.
But all in all, nice read and depth analysis.
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Mike Turnell 10 months ago
I definitely agree. Maggette is no where near at the defensive, or even offensive for that matter, level that Tayshaun Prince is at.
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
Prince is a monster. Very underrated. DPOY-level shutdown defender and could easily average 18-20ppg if he was on a different team that needed a bigger/expanded role from him on offense (EASILY). Plus he can create for others, he can do it all. and he's a champion, very clutch and lots of heart. Great teammate and leader too.
I wouldnt take many over Prince. I would LOVE to see him play alongside a guy like Dwyane Wade and be that number 2 guy on the perimeter (number 3 guy if you count the main-man inside and number 2 option Beasley).
Thats my dream lineup anyways. LoL.
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Andrew Butler 10 months ago
wheres ron artest?
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Peter Bukowski 10 months ago
I have ALL kinds of problems with this list starting with 'Melo at 4. Shane Battier is a terrific team player, a great defender and a clutch shooter (when left wide open), but he could never carry a team either offensively the way Carmelo or Caron Butler can, or defensively the way Gerald Wallace or AK47 could.
On the other hand Carmelo Anthony is one of the most unstoppable scorers in the league, a more complete offensive player than is Lebron James who has a vastly inferior post game to Carmelo.
Brandon Roy doesn't belong on this list even a little so putting him above Caron Butler is just ridiculous as are the unfairly low rankings of Rudy Gay and Al Thornton.
Perhaps at the outside you should have specified criterion for this analysis rather than just spouting off players and numbers. On what basis are these rankings? WIthout that, this list is essentially useless
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
The criteria is simple: Which NBA small forward is best suited to being an integral part of a championship team this year? That's outlined early in the article.
What exactly have Carmelo, Caron Butler, Gerald Wallace, or AK47 "carried" their teams to? What is this obsession with fans putting more credit into individuals who "carry" teams to mediocrity?
If you were presented with a team of random players at each position, and you needed to draft a small forward, if you draft Battier you're set with a counter to your opponent's best scorer. Carmelo, on the other hand, allows opponents to score at will, plus disciplined defensive players and teams shut him down easily.
Caron Butler isn't nearly the defender Battier is, isn't a great jump shooter, and doesn't have great handles. Plus, he can't set screens nearly as well as Battier can, and he's not as good at rebounding in a crowd as Battier is.
Rudy Gay has no clue how to defend one-on-one without gambling, and has no idea how to score in the halfcourt. Thornton likewise is a player who mostly succeeds in transition, in isolations, and can't play defense.
If you have a random team and need to select a small forward to win you a seven game series, please tell me you'd pick Rudy Gay or Al Thornton as an early pick.
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
Erick that is where youre wrong. Were the 07 spurs a disciplined defensive team? The MOST disciplined: correct?
Then how did Melo light them up for 30+ ppg on 50+ FG%? Because he CARRIED the teams offense while Iverson struggled and made it a VERY competitive game in 4 of the 5 games of the series as the FOCAL POINT of the nugget offense.
When Melo is on: NO ONE is shutting him down. A TEAM could. But not one man. THAT is what I dont think you understand about basketball. Indivudual brilliant offense OVERCOMES individual defense no matter how great it is in basketball.
TEAM defense is much more important. And why you can see a team like the Celtics with two guys who were known as weak defenders for most of their careers (Ray and Pierce) on the wing, a guy who was said to be too weak in the post defending at times prior (KG), a guy who fouls way too much and cant stay on the floor plus loses his temper and couldnt keep his head in the game(perkins) and an undisciplined ALWAYS GAMBLING young defender that cant keep his man in front of hiim (Rondo) make up one of the BEST defenses of all-time and shut down the greatest offensive player (arguably) in basketball. COMPLETELY.
You dont understand that. Good offense beats good defense every time when its an individual matchup. Team defense is where its at. TEAM defense can be built with ANYONE as long as they have the physical ability (meaning Peja need not apply now that he cant move anymore) and put in the effort.
But offense? Battier could NEVER do what Melo or Butler could do for a team offensively, no matter WHAT. That is why you got this thing ALL WRONG. Completely.
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
Caron Butler has good handles, was a MUCH improved jumpshooter this past year (shot 40% from 3point range and 48% from the field, 90% from the FT line...... 22ppg/7.5rpg/4.9apg........ thats ALL his numbers before he got injured at the 50-game mark)
Caron is also a MUCH better rebounder than Battier. In traffic or not. So you obviously just didnt know what you were talking about there.
And Caron is a good defender that could easily be a key component in a great team defense. Plug him in for Pierce in last years Celtics and their defense doesnt fall off an inch as long as he puts in the effort (which Caron obviously DOES and WOULD. Especially like Pierce when he has Ray and KG taking so much offensive slack so he can have so much more energy for that end).
You could plug in Battier and their defense would be just as good too. But their offense would be nowhere NEAR as good.
Plug in Caron to last years Rockets and their defense is nearly just as good as well. And their offense is MUCH better.
Think about that.
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Caelan B 10 months ago
good list better than youre other lists but andre ig and roy aren't sf's igudala played more sg than sf and u cant list brandon roy as a sf he drives to bucket like a guard(he actully played pg in his rookie season for a while)he does shoot outside the perimiter at times and if he was a sf he would be crushed because hes 6"5 which is a little under height for small forwards
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Marin Perez 10 months ago
@Erick - But if you look at your criteria, what has Battier carried his team to (in the pros)? And he's had a more talented cast (at least in Houston) than Butler, Melo and Wallace.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Neither Battier nor anybody below him on the list have "carried" their teams to anything. Since I don't trust Carmelo's decision making, since I have no faith in him in a playoff setting, since I abhor his lack of defensive intensity, and his mental disregard to playing defense. While I know he's certainly the second most athletic small forward in the game, a talented scorer and a smart post passer, he doesn't have the mentality to succeed in the playoffs offensively the same way Battier can shut a player down defensively.
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Jim Truesdale 10 months ago
I know you tried to justify having Brandon Roy on this list but you're wrong. Brandon Roy is a SG / PG. He would occasionally guard the 3 due to his good defense but for the most part guarded the best player between the 2 & 3.
I have been watching him since his dawg days and I've never even seen him listed as a 3?
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Jared Zeidman 10 months ago
I think before you make an article like this, you should really take some time to establish who is playing what position. I don't recall a single game last year when Brandon Roy played small forward. Also, Tayshaun Prince is light years better than Shane Battier, hence Coach K (his old college coach) leaving Battier off the team.
I understand the value of an opinion, but even the most respected opinions are based on an individuals knowledge of facts, and apparently when it comes to NBA basketball, you have very little. I count 5 players on this list who don't play small forward. It almost looks like you went with players that you knew by name or something.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Takeover, I want you to describe to me the general responsibilities of a shooting guard and the general responsibilities of a small forward. After that, ask me, who is playing a true small forward position and who is playing a true shooting guard position, Brandon Roy or Martell Webster, especially when Webster is primarily defending 2-guards and is primarily doing very little inside the three-point line on offense.
Tayshaun Prince has trouble defending physical forwards. Players who attack Prince with strength can blow by him and create open looks for themselves. Battier can't be pushed aside on defense, and uses his strength to push aside offensive players taking away power drives and power moves. Battier's strength allows him to be a better off-ball defender.
On offense, Prince has a better post game because he's longer, and has a little bit more of a mid-range game. He doesn't have Battier's range, nor is he as prolific a three-point shooter.
Battier was left off the Olympic team because power basketball doesn't translate to the Olympic game, and needing strength isn't as important in international competition as it is in domestic basketball. Plus, since Team USA's defense was based more on trapping and pressing the international community's slower, less talented point guards, having long athletic wings suited the team more than a strong disciplined wing like Battier.
But thank you for pointing out the 5 players on the list who weren't small forwards. I gave my reason for why I feel Roy is a small forward, why Iguodala is Philly's small forward, why I listed Josh Smith as a small forward. I don't know what two other mystery players you're referring to that you saw.
I also appreciate how you simply ignored the justification given to each player's ranking. If you aren't going to bother to read the justifications, don't bother making worthless comments.
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Steven Jarjees 10 months ago
WOW. this list is horrible. Shane Battier is not even a top 15 SF. and Brandon Roy is not a SF.
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Butch Farmer 10 months ago
What is Carmelo upset about? I'd say he is LUCKY to be #4 on the list. When it comes to winning a tough game he is absolutely clueless and at this point in his career, one has to fear that he always will be. He is not NEARLY the long range shooter that he thinks he is and shows only sporadic interest in defending his man. To date, he has shifted over in the name of help defense exactly four times in his career. Without AI, Denver would be in the running for the top draft pick next year.
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Brett Fulmore 10 months ago
If I were to make a top 30 list, it would look a lot different than this.
Prince is way too low. He's arguably a better defensive player than Bowen at this point and his offensive game is light years ahead, but you have him almost 10 spots behind. He just won a gold medal after all. I'd have him in my top 7 at the very lowest, and if we're going by your criteria of a player's ability to play "championship basketball", he's probably top 3.
Posey wasn't even a starter in Boston last year and despite his value in the playoffs, I don't think you can say he's a better player than Kirilenko, Deng, Josh Smith, Howard, Granger, or Rudy Gay.
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Steven Resnick 10 months ago
Brandon Roy is the small forward for the Trail Blazers.
PG Steve Blake
SG Martell Webster
SF Brandon Roy
PF Lamarcus Aldridge
C Greg Oden/Joel Przybilla
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Adam Bernert 10 months ago
lol wow, your proof is overwhelming!
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
He's not a better defender though. Bowen shut down Steve Nash, Peja Stojakovic, and did a great job defending Kobe in last year's playoffs. He's lost a half a step, but he's much better at staying with stronger wings than Prince is. Any strong wing can attack Prince and go through him. It's why LeBron is very successful against him. It's why Paul Pierce is very successful against him.
Prince was also the 12th man on the Olympic team and had very little to do with Team USA's Gold Medal outcome. I'm not going to give Scott Pollard a gushing round of applause for winning a championship with last year's Celtics.
There are two other much better defenders than Prince, plus some of the other players above Prince are almost as talented defensively.
Not being a starter isn't always an indicator of a player's talent. Ask Manu Ginobili. And Posey was almost always on the court making shots and coming up with defensive plays when the pressure was on. Ask yourself, if you had random players at the other four positions and needed a small forward to win a seven game series, do you want any of those you guys listed above [two are versatile but not dynamic offensive players (Granger and Deng), one lacks maturity (Smith), one is still learning how to play basketball the right way (Gay), one is a notorious choker (Howard), and one lacks the physicality to be a truly exceptional defender (Kirilenko)]?
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
Wow, you didnt watch the olympics either. Shocking.
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John F 10 months ago
Battier should not be listed that high, top 10 yes but #3 in the league? Wheres Shawn Marion and Ron Artest? They're better than Ryan Gomes and Jason Kapono without a doubt. Josh Smith at #18 is way too low on the list, the guy fills up stat lines every night.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Read the article man!
"Due to the way some NBA lineups are presently constructed, a handful of potential small forwards will be asked to play different positions this year. For that reason, Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, and Rashard Lewis are listed as power forwards."
It's the fifth paragraph!
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Brett Fulmore 10 months ago
Well I don't know what to say, other than I disagree.
Prince's stats drawf Bowen's in virtually every category, with the exception of maybe perimiter defense. Comparing his role on the dream team to Pollar on the Celt's is laughable.
The dream team is the most elite team in the world and Prince was handpicked to compete, opposed to Pollard who was merely signed to fill out a roster. Prince was not their 12th man either , and I'd like to point out that Bowen was cut from that squad.
Posey is a role player (7 ppg and 4rpg)who does his job well, but he's not a better player than the guys I mentioned. Their respective GM's would not trade them for Posey in a million years, which I consider to be a pretty good guage for these type of lists.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Statistics are a terrible way to measure a player's value. Watch basketball games, not box scores. Plus, perimeter defense isn't a quality that can be quantified, only qualified.
And with Bowen, the same reasons he was cut and Prince remained are the same reasons why Battier was cut and Prince remained. International Basketball is completely different than the NBA, and Prince is better suited to international competition than Bowen is. I'm more concerned with winning NBA championships than with Gold Medals. And other than Carlos Boozer, nobody played fewer minutes per game than Tayshaun Prince did. Being an 11th man isn't that much more glorious than being a 12th man.
Of course those GM's won't make those trades, with the exception oh Kirilenko's Jazz, and Howard's Mavs, all of the teams listed above are bad teams. Gay is a third-year player on a team with no present. Of course his team won't trade him. Indiana's clueless (they actually expect another team to simply add Jamaal Tinsely without dealing back an awful contract in return), Atlanta can use a better shooter and defender than Smith, Chicago thinks Deng is a "franchise player," Dallas would trade Howard for Posey in a heartbeat, and Jerry Sloan would trade Kirilenko for Posey in a heartbeat.
Besides those teams all have circumstances and situations surrounding them. Throw that out the window. You have a seven-game series to win a championship. Your point guard, shooting guard, power forward and center are all selected at random (assume they're all Top 30 players and not complete garbage). Which player do you want on your team to win a championship this year.
Again, do you want the players you listed above, or Posey?
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Adam Bernert 10 months ago
I would easily pick those players before James Posey. like Brett said, Posey is a good role player but he's not as good as those players he listed and you listed him far too high on your list.
Perhaps if you didnt want to confuse people about your article you shouldnt name it the "Top 30 NBA Small Forwards"
but instead opt for, "list of top 30 small forwards Erick Blasco would choose if You have a seven-game series to win a championship. Your point guard, shooting guard, power forward and center are all selected at random (assume they're all Top 30 players and not complete garbage). Which player do you want on your team to win a championship this year"
because those are two totally different lists.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Is not the object of an NBA team to win a championship? What is the point of selecting lesser players who aren't as equipped to help your team win a championship? Or do you posit that there are other higher goals for NBA teams and players to have?
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nate jones 10 months ago
I think Adam is making the argument that when you have the chance to get a star, you generally should take it over a role player. Chemistry doesn't necessarily mean everyone is friends with each other. A team of 5 perenial allstars will probably beat a team with one all star and a bunch of awesome role players, don't you agree?
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Haven't the 2004 Lakers, the late 90's, early 00's Blazers, the current Denver Nuggets, and Phoenix Suns proved that theory false?
A team with 5 perrenial All-Stars will no doubt be successful, but if they are All-Stars simply because they are great scorers and don't have any players who'll do dirty work, the team will probably give up a lot of points, and the offense will probably be simple. The team will probably cruise over the regular season, but the first chance they meet a team that can put up a challenge, the All-Stars probably wouldn't know how to dig deep within themselves and find another level.
Obviously this is simplistic and depends a lot on which all-stars are on the team. I'll take a team of Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, and three other role players any day of the week.
But if I had guys like, say, Marcus Camby, Jermaine O'Neal, Baron Davis, Melo, and Monta Ellis...there's nothing I can do with that offense except isolate, and I'm going to give up 120 points a game. The first disciplined team I face, I'm losing. That's one of the reasons Utah was able to dominate the Warriors in the 2007 playoffs.
A team of 5 role players would struggle, but a team of one great two-way superstar and four elite role players would fare better than 5 All-Stars who play the game the wrong way. A lot of the small forwards on my list have their flaws, one of the reasons Battier is so high up. And I'd rather count on his flawless defense, rather than the question marks of the players below.
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Hudson B 10 months ago
Does anyone here remember the '04 finals?
Lakers - season veteran allstars
Pistons - 1 or 2 allstars (the wallaces), awesome defenders (everyone), and playmakers (billups, hamilton)
Anyone remember how that series turned out?
Here is a thought! Maybe that is a huge part of what made the Celtics so good this season. A playmaker (rondo), role players (davis, posey, pj brown, cassell, powe), superstars (pierce, allen, kg).
Does anyone watch basketball?! Or do we all watch the highlights and look at the box scores?
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Adam Bernert 10 months ago
I'm just saying its silly to make a list of top small forwards and then list players that would work best to work into your championship team. The intangibles are too great. you'd have no idea who else is on your team so why would you pick a role player over a star.
this list should be made from the perspective that you're starting a team that you want to win a championship and the very first player you pick for your team must be a small forward and you have no idea who is available to pick from for the other positions.
that's the only perspective in which you could fairly rate the specific position
under those circumstances no man in his right mind will choose bruce bowen above half of the people under him.
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
Erick, didnt the 08 Celtics just prove that right?
The Lakers were too old in 04 and Kobe tried to be the "Man" when it was clearly still shoulda been Shaq. So Kobe shot the series away (WITH TAYSHAUN and detroit SHUTTING HIM DOWN I MIGHT ADD........ remember Kobe is the same guy that LIT UP BOWEN to the 100th degree just two series earlier) at a 38% clip.
Payton was old and Malone wasnt there........... they beat a HELLUVA LOT of GREAT ROLEPLAYERS on their way to the finals before Malone got injured though huh?
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Rydelfred F 10 months ago
These new generation young players brought USA basketball on top of the world: Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, and Carmelo Anthony. Putting Battier on top of Anthony on this list is just RIDICULOUS. C'mon man... Battier is not even near Anthony's caliber. Anthony is far more a dangerous player offensively (inside & outside). Defensively, he ain't that bad either. Battier might have an edge defensively but the way defense is being played, like in international competition, they are more focused on TEAM Defense already. If you put a player like Battier in place of Anthony in the "Redeemed Team", I'd have to say he will just sit on the bench for most of the time because he will definitely find it hard scoring and there are a lot of players in that team who can score and defend like Kobe Bryant. I don't even think Battier can guard taller players in that competition. Anthony is a more talented, flexible and dynamic player who can play multiple positions (can play SF, SG, PF).
James and Pierce absolutely deserves the #1 and #2 positions respectively. I think Anthony should be ranked #3.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Why is Carmelo so good in international competition? I can name you 5 players off the top of my head who can frustrate Carmelo defensively in the NBA. Battier, Posey, Prince, Bowen, and Kobe. Can you name any international forward who plays defense as well as those five, besides possibly Kirilenko?
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Pete Treperinas 10 months ago
I'll have to disagree with Battier at three...I'll take a Carmelo or a B-Roy at three. And Bruce Bowen should fall in the late teens early 20's. He plays dirty.
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yungCaucasoid ... 10 months ago
Erick,
I see that ***hypocrisy------still RULES!*** when your dumb-brain starts writing obfuscatory-gobbledygook, which you call articles.
You need to retire...real talk:
"...James Posey are premier defensive specialists with little appreciable offensive talent..."
vs.
"...15. James Posey—New Orleans Hornets ...accurate from deep, clutch..."
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yungCaucasoid ... 10 months ago
In a nuttshell *stop contradicting yourself so much!* then your harlequinades won't be so comedic to readers.
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Tom Dillard 10 months ago
I believe that you have some of these players listed out of position. For example, I believe LeBron James & Paul Pierce are both shooting guards for their respective teams; Al Thornton & Josh Smith are power forwards. There are more but I don't have time to list them all!!!
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Rydelfred F 10 months ago
NUMBERS DON'T LIE... IT'S A FACT... Melo is better than Battier! I just don't understand why you keep insisting Battier is better than Melo.
Carmelo Anthony
Denver Nuggets
Position: F
Height: 6-8 Weight: 230
College: Syracuse
Player file | Team stats
2007-08 Statistics
PPG 25.7
RPG 7.4
APG 3.4
SPG 1.3
BPG 0.5
FG% 0.492
FT% 0.786
3P% 0.354
MPG 36.4
Shane Battier
Houston Rockets
Position: F
Height: 6-8 Weight: 220
College: Duke
Player file | Team stats
2007-08 Statistics
PPG 9.3
RPG 5.1
APG 1.9
SPG 1.0
BPG 1.1
FG% 0.428
FT% 0.743
3P% 0.377
MPG 36.3
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Rydelfred F 10 months ago
Why is Carmelo so good in international competition? Here's why..... [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmelo_Anthony]
.....On January 16, 2006, Anthony was chosen as USA Basketball's Male Athlete of the Year after his performance at the FIBA World Championship.[14]
Anthony was also a member of Team USA during the 2007 FIBA Americas Championship. The team went undefeated, going 10-0. Anthony ended up as the tournament's second-leading scorer with a 21.2 ppg average (191 points in 9 games), which was behind Leandro Barbosa of Brazil. Anthony also added 5.2 rpg and 1.4 apg. He equalled the previous record of 28 points set by Allen Iverson in a qualifying tournament, which was later broken by James, who scored 31 points in the title-clinching win against Argentina.[66]
Anthony was also named to the 2008 Summer Olympics in Beijing, again alongside James and Wade with Kobe Bryant and Jason Kidd among others, with the mission of bringing back the Gold Medal to the USA. The team overpowered its opponents with an average winning margin of 32.2 points in five games. The team eliminated Australia in the quarterfinals by 31 then finally went over its final four mishaps in the past by beating Argentina by 20 points. After playing second fiddle to his teammates up to the quarterfinal match, Anthony played his best game against Argentina by topscoring with 21 points, making 3 of 14 field goals and 13-of-13 in free throws, setting USA Olympic game records for made free throws and free throw percentage.[67]
In the gold medal game, Team USA defeated 2006 World Champion Spain and lived up to its "Redeem Team" moniker, with Anthony scoring 13 points.[68] Anthony posted averages of 11.5 ppg (92 points/8 games), 4.3 rpg (34 rebounds/8 games) and 1.0 spg (8 steals/8 games)....
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Rydelfred F 10 months ago
I can name you 5 players off the top of my head who can frustrate Carmelo defensively in the NBA. Battier, Posey, Prince, Bowen, and Kobe. ...............
I can name you a lot of players who can frustrate Battier offensively... Oh he's a defensive player right.. These players can really frustrate Melo offensively but he still averages PPG 25.7 last season.
Can you name any international forward who plays defense as well as those five, besides possibly Kirilenko?..........
International defense is not about individual defense. By now, you should have realized that considering the defeat the 2004 Olympics US Men's Basketball Team encountered at the hands of teams like Greece, Lithuania, and Argentina... Individually, I think the 2004 US Team is more superior offensively and defensively than any guys on the other teams. It's just that these guys found a way to work as a TEAM defensively and offensively. Thus, frustrating the very proud US Team.
But, it was a different story four years after as the 2008 US Redeem Team greatly improved their TEAM defense and they played as one.
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oleg ivashchenko 10 months ago
most of these players are pretty one dimentional. they are good for one or two particular qualities. versatility plays a huge role because players like kirilenko, marion, and artest fill the gaping holes on offense and defense when offensive players find themselves trying to play defense. those are the kind of badasses i'd want on my team. enjoy having melo on your team but remember that you better cover his ass on every defensive play
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nate jones 10 months ago
Rydelfred is right. Battier's "intangibles" don't make up for Anthony's lack of hustle/skill on the defensive end. As an aside, Anthony is actually stealing the ball more. The true point is that Anthony should have been in MVP consideration two seasons ago if it weren't for his ill advised swing and miss in the MSG incident. Assuming he has learned not to take silly swings at other players, his overall game is much better.
your criteria for choosing players is the assumption that you have to take a guy with no knowledge of who else is on your team. Let's say you have two teams taken completely at random with the exception of the SF.
team one (without putting too much thought into this)
Jameer Nelson
Juan Dixon
Shane Battier/Carmelo
Carlos Boozer
Tony Battie
team 2
Mike Bibby
Cuttino Mobley
Battier/Melo
Amare Stoudamire
Andris Biedrins
which player is more likely to lead either team to a championship? Yes, that's correct, it would be Melo in the Skill takes precedence over virtually everything basketball association.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
His brain isn't better, gambling for steals isn't a substitute for playing technique defense, he self-destructs under pressure more, he'd be a disgrace to the MVP award.
The first team you propose is very small, and very weak on the perimeter defensively. Carlos Boozer is a terrible help defender, and Battie isn't anything special in his own right. Team one with Carmelo would be scored upon at will, and I'd have to outscore teams to win. Besides Boozer, nobody is a great off the ball player with Carmelo on it. I can't run anything complicated. I'd probably post Carmelo to play two-man games with Boozer at the high post, but defenses can sag off Battie since he won't provide much offense besides the stray mid-range jumper. Dixon and Nelson become spot up shooters only, not their strengths.
With Battier, I can trust Nelson with the ball, run cross-screens with Battier and Boozer to give Boozer premier post position, run Battier off a weak-side Battie screen and have open mid range jumpers going for me. I can screen with Battier for Nelson and Dixon allowing them to slash while still having options in the posts with Battie and Boozer. If defenses converge on the penetrators, Battie and Boozer can pop the jumper, or boozer can power dribble in.
A good defense will shut down the team with Battier, and I don't have any creators at the end of a shot clock. The same defense will probably score more against the team with Carmelo though. Either team isn't going anywhere.
The second team is much more interesting. I have two active help defenders who don't have the sharpest basketball IQ's. With Battier able to hold his man and funnel drivers, Stoudemire and Biedrins can become very useful defenders, whereas with Carmelo, Stoudemire and Biedrins don't have the awareness to help in time. They'll pick up unnecessary fouls and be useless. If Battier forces a bad shot, and biedrins gets a rebound, I have a good decision maker on the break, Stoudemire, who's unstoppable on the break, and Mobely, a useful transition player.
In the halfcourt, I can run simple screen/rolls with Stoudemire and Bibby, and I'll have good spacing with Battier and Mobely on the wings, and Biedrins far on the baseline. I can also screen off the ball for Stoudemire, an unusual situation which will be difficult for defenses to stop. I have a balanced offense, and I can trust Bibby and Battier to set examples for the team, and Stoudemire won't be jealous of another forward.
With Melo, the offense would become a purely isolation offense, Bibby would become a spot up shooter (not his strength), Melo and Stoudemire would be the primary decision makers (not a great thought), and Stoudemire would gripe at a lack of touches. In the clutch, I'd have Bibby and Battier as two clutch shooters, instead of only Bibby. I can win with Battier on the second team, much easier than I can with Melo. The second team with Melo would give up 105 points a game.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
That's a fun thought though, Nate, I like what you did. I might give Carmelo the edge in the first team, but if you go make lists and circumstances with halfway decent players (complete scrubs like Smush Parker don't start for championship teams), you'll see that you'll come up with a lot of situations where Battier will help the team more than Carmelo.
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Lucas Rifkin 10 months ago
No shawn marion? Really?
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
He's a power forward on Miami.
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Clement Uduk 9 months ago
Shawn Marion IS a small forward! Wow, just because he was used as a power foward in Phoenix to utilize mismatches, doesn't mean he is a power foward. The guy is a rail! So if Marion is a power foward in Miami, that makes Haslem a center, following your logic right? (Because you moved Marion from a 3 to a 4, and well I just think it follow suit to move Haslem from a 4 to a 5).
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Marcus Hagness 10 months ago
Shane Battier better then 'Melo... must be a Duke fan to be that stupid.
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Stew Winkel 10 months ago
Great list - good stuff. I do disagree with battier being so high. He is a role player - defend and shoot 3s. He is very good at it, and the type of player I think any team would want. But I'd much rather have 'Melo, or Caron Butler over him.
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Jared Zeidman 10 months ago
Erick,
Here's another worthless comment...
If power basketball did not translate to the olympics, Dwight Howard wouldn't have started every game, and LeBron James wouldn't have anchored the team.
Not being ignorant should be a requirement to write on this site.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Dwight Howard was probably the most unsuccessful player on the team, and James dominated, not because he needed to stop a strong player's offense, but because he was stronger offensively than his competition. Is it a coincidence that the only teams that have managed to knock the Cavs out of the playoffs the last two years were physical, smart, disciplined, and tough Celtics and Spurs teams?
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Jared Zeidman 10 months ago
Oh and also...
You can't jsut justify your wanting a player to play a position, just so it helps your top 30 list. As a "senior writer" you should know that practice is called "dishonest journalism."
And don't defend your garbage by telling other people that they don't watch as much basketball as you, because according to your argument, I can classify Amare Stoudamire as a small forward if I wanted to.
The fact that this is the production of a senior writer makes me lose my faith in this entire website.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
My question: "I want you to describe to me the general responsibilities of a shooting guard and the general responsibilities of a small forward. After that, ask me, who is playing a true small forward position and who is playing a true shooting guard position, Brandon Roy or Martell Webster, especially when Webster is primarily defending 2-guards and is primarily doing very little inside the three-point line on offense."
Your answer:...
Stoudemire's prime responsibilities last season with the Suns were to provide secondary post defense with Shaq, primary post defense before Shaq. As the tallest player on the team, and the strongest, he was asked to be the main defender closest to the basket, before Shaq, and was asked to guard bigger players who didn't always play right at the basket when Shaq arrived.
On offense, Stoudemire was the main screen-setter, the player stationed closest to the basket, and the player who more than not operated in the post before shaq arrived. After shaq, Stoudemire was stationed more at the high post, farther away than Shaq, making him the power forward.
If you assume Shaq, Grant Hill, Raja Bell, and Steve Nash are Stoudemire's teammates, then you'd have to assume that either Hill or Bell is a power forward on the Suns. Good luck with that.
On a Blazers team where Roy and Webster are both swingmen, and the specific position of each is unclear, then you look at what a player's responsibilities are as a part of that team.
You never answered my question and countered with some BS about Stoudemire being a small forward. And you call my posts garbage, and lose faith in my writing?
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nate jones 10 months ago
dude, I was getting caught up like this too because it's natural to want to categorize guys. But when the man is writing articles about each position, he will get a chance to rate every player in the league and make some sort of comment on where they rank compared to the rest of the league. If you are thrown off to the point of saying you have to be able to compare Marion and Melo or something along those lines, you can just take a look at both positions and engage in debate with the writer in this space by way of comparing guys who play "different" positions. There's no need to get caught up in semantics, because that is where the dishonest tend to dwell.
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Marcus Hagness 10 months ago
I like that you brought up the 'Melo hasn't won in the playoffs yet when Battier plays for the Houston Rockets and hasn't been out of the first round of the playoffs when he's roughly the 4th scoring option on that team. 'Melo just got done winning a gold medal in the olympics and he single handedly took Syracuse to the national championship so he does know how to win. So with 'Melo at 3 on this list I still don't put Battier at 4. He MIGHT crack the top ten. That is by far one of the worst ranking lists I've ever read.
-MH
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Jared Zeidman 10 months ago
Thank you Marcus.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
The college game is more about sheer talent than being strong, well-rounded, disciplined, or committed to details. Ask Ben Gordon how much of a winner he is, when he won't play defense, gripes about playing time, and only looks to shoot. Talk to me about the college game, and I'll remind you that even scrubs like J.J. Reddick and Adam Morrison can find success there. When they get to the next level, they're useless.
Again, Team USA was so much more talented than their opponents, that they can get away with simply being more athletic than their opponents.
Battier was stuck on a Grizzlies team where he was the only exceptional defender, except for a year with James Posey. Pau Gasol couldn't score as a main option, and the team completely lacked athleticism. You can only control what you can do, not the teammates you have.
With the Rockets, Battier completely blew up Utah's off-ball cuts in their two playoff series, forcing the Jazz to abandon their flex offense, and run simple Deron Williams isolations and pick-and-rolls. If Rafer Alston wasn't as scrawny as he was, and if Tracy McGrady decides to keep attacking the rim at the end of Game 7, like he'd been doing with abandon the entire game, instead of settling for, and bricking two jumpers, Houston beats Utah and then muscles around the discipline-less Warriors and earns a trip to the Western Conference Finals.
With Carmelo, he's disappeared as a scorer in playoff games with horrible field goal percentages, limited impact, poor decision making, and terrible defense. That isn't anything his teammates were responsible for, that's him playing below the expectations needed of him to succeed in the playoffs.
Look deeper instead of glossing the surface of why a player has or hasn't succeeded in the playoffs.
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Marcus Hagness 10 months ago
If this, and if that... If Battier was as good as Carmelo Anthony the Rockets would've won that series. if if's and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas. All Battier can do on offense is get garbage put backs and hit open three's. He's a good player, don't get me wrong and I love how he plays but to say you'd rather have him when 'Melo is available is completely ridiculous.
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
thank you Marcus.
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Brett Fulmore 10 months ago
You claim that the college game is more about "sheer talent", and then your next point is that even "scrubs" like Reddick and Morrison can excel in college. Which one is it?
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
My point is that talented players with simple skills can excel in college, but not the NBA. Reddick has a skill. He can shoot extremely well. Morrison can drive right off the dribble and has a talented jumper.
When you get to a level (the NBA) that requires more than performing one talented act, those players struggle unless they are exceptional at it.
Plus, because of a stretched out talent pool, the talent needed to defend against great college players is stretched too thin. Therefore those players have a much easier time being successful in college and flame out in the NBA.
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Marcus Hagness 10 months ago
Which is exactly what Battier has! Simple skills! 'Melo can learn how to D up anytime in his career. All it takes is will power or the right coach. Battier is never going to learn how to be as offensively threatening as 'Melo. That's something you either have or you don't.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Playing exceptional defense isn't a simple skill. Go learn the footwork, and acquire the mental wiring to shut down every aspect of an opponent's offense that's aimed at you.
Saying that Carmelo can learn to D up anytime in his career doesn't help me if I want to win a championship this year.
Early on in the article, I wrote "the criteria is simple, and framed as a question it is: Which NBA small forward is best suited to being an integral part of a championship team this year?"
If Carmelo isn't going to take defense seriously, he's not going anywhere. You might as well be saying, "Carmelo can learn to be a championship player anytime in his career." Great, when he does that, let me know.
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
Its kind of like why Battier was so good in college Brett, but has struggled to become a true impact player in the pros.
Easy to figure out.
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
It sure did help Doc Rivers this year though when they said that Ray Allen (and Paul Pierce to an extent, he had to re-learn) could learn to d up', right Erick?
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Damien Lewis 10 months ago
Shane over Melo is obviously just you trying to be controversial. There is no way you can truly believe that.... Shane isn't even worthy of being in the top 10-15. Placing him over Prince, Smith, Iggy, Wallace, Howard, etc is pretty ridiculous. I think you know that.... This whole list is basically just you trying to pound in a point about something you hate about Melo.
The list is in a horrible order. Other than that it's a good list. lol
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Well, I did rank Melo number 4...I can't hate him THAT much, lol. He's tremendously talented, easily the second most talented small forward in the game (ahead of Battier and Pierce). I can value his athleticism and offensive game over other players, because everyone below Melo on the list has major flaws as well. Battier is easily the most complete defender in the game, and I trust him over any of the lesser 27th ranked players on my team in a best-of-seven.
The average fan spends two seconds pondering over defensive possibilities, and two hours seeing Carmelo Anthony on sportscenter...Of course most people are stunned seeing Battier tha thigh up on the list.
And it's not controversy, it's what I actually believe.
Thanks for the comment.
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Damien Lewis 10 months ago
Dude, Shane is a role player. He is not a star. He is not a leader. He does not have anywhere near the pressure as Melo has on his back. To compare the two as equals, much less to say Shane is a better player, is laughable. Surly you see this...
Melo's offensive game is so far and beyond Shane's that it more than makes up for his lack of defense. For Melo to score like that with limited touches (courtesy to AI's presence) is pretty impressive. It's especially impressive that he does it all through traps and double teams, getting beaten down all game in the paint. Shane has never seen a double in his life. The guy looks like a decent offensive threat because he feeds off the real stars. He is on the team for his defense. He's a specialist, who knows how to take advantage of opportunities. I'm not saying he's not a great player, I'd love him on my team, but he's not even in the same league as Josh Smith, Josh Howard, Iggy, and Melo. Hell, Artest didn't even make your list (guess you forgot him) and he's obviously going to bump Shane off the starting line up. So now you are placing a bench player in front of all stars..... Really, guy?
I can respect your knowledge of the game, but you are way off on this one, my friend.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
But only because of fan culture are exceptional role players marginalized compared to "franchise players" on bad teams. It's as if, just because a player has more responsibility means he's more apt to help a team win. That isn't always the case.
If you accept Battier's defense and Carmelo's offense on equal terms, ask yourself which is better, Battier's offense, or Carmelo's defense? Ask yourself, does Carmelo score more than he gives up on the defensive end? Can he compensate by making clutch plays in clutch situations?
Plus Carmelo's psyche is fragile, a reason why he gets frustrated by just how physical and demanding playoff basketball is? You mention the pressure on Carmelo's back, has he come close to showing he can handle that pressure?
You call Battier a specialist, isn't Carmelo simply a scoring specialist? And it's a lot harder to find good defenders in the NBA than good scorers.
Shane hasn't seen a double in his life, and Carmelo hasn't kept a player in front of him in his life.
Even with all these flaws, I have Carmelo listed 4th simply because he's so dynamic. All he has to do is start giving effort and stop taking short cuts. It's not impossible. But until then, I feel Battier gives a team a better chance of winning a championship than Anthony.
Since I feel that having Ron Artest replacing Scola in the starting lineup gived the Rockets their best lineup, I have Artest listed as Houston's power forward, and he's 9th on my top power forward lists.
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Damien Lewis 10 months ago
As bad as Melo's defense is, he isn't really too far below average. He's far from able to take on the best defender on every team (as he's stated numerous times that he wants to do), but he's really not as horrible as he is proclaimed. The Nuggets just have a horrible system with zero discipline.
That said, do I think Melo's defense is better than Shane's offense? I think trying to compare offense to defense is impossible, especially with two people who clearly differ in the value of both. I believe Melo more than makes up for his mistakes on defense. He is rarely outscored by his defender, so I don't think he's really hurting the team as much as some critics suggest. Still, his defense is far from poetry. Shane on the other hand is virtually useless if he's not getting fed. He makes life easier for the stars. That defines a role player, not the fans.
I really think having a guy you can rely to score 25-30ppg a night is much more valuable than a defender. That's my opinion, and it seems many GMs agree. I would gladly offer Melo a max deal, but who would offer a max deal to Shane? Defenders aren't as rare as a pure scorer. There aren't many GMs lining up to make big deals for defensive specialists. Hell, even Artest is extremely underpaid.
Speaking of Artest, I know there are talks about him playing the 4, but lets face it, it wont work for long. You can't play the whole game small. Someone's minutes are going to get cut and it will be Shane's. Yao is like Melo, he takes a beating all game and it effects the rest of his game. He has never really been able to dominate the boards and probably never will. Golden State proved this can be a crucial weakness. I wouldn't be shocked if Shane was traded. His role playing role has been demoted, while Tracy's (another pretty bad defender) will likely remain intact. Why? Because he carries the offensive load. In this league, offense overvalues defense. You're free to have your beliefs, which I respect now more than I did at first, but that's reality in the league.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
I disagree with Artest not being able to play the four. He made life miserable for Duncan his first year in Sacramento in the postseason, and is actually a better post defender than he is a perimeter defender. If he wasn't such a head case, teams would be a lot more willing to dish out max money to him.
Also contracts depend on a lot of things, primarily who else is on your team and how much money they make.
If I have a random team, where I don't know who else is going to be on it, I'm probably going to end up with a lot of talented scorers on my team. There are a lot more scorers in the league than there are defenders. I can trust that I can scrap together a team offense with Battier and scorers than I can with Carmelo and the same scorers. After all, Detroit got to two NBA Finals with a bunch of non-stars, and Rip Hamilton curling off baseline screens for two seasons.
You're last statement is sadly true, one of the reasons why only about 7 teams have won championships in the last 20 years.
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nate jones 10 months ago
It's unanimous, no GM in their right state of mind would trade Melo for the next year for Battier for the next year!
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Jared Zeidman 10 months ago
Erick is crumbling under his own hypocrisy ladies and gentlemen.
I love your arguments about great defense. It is true that good defending players are important. It's such a shame though that the greats in the NBA play both offense and defense well.
People liking Melo over Battier has less to do with sports center, and more to do with one's grasp of reality. Having an alternative take is fine, but at least be able to handle the criticism.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
It is a shame. That's why the list of elite small forwards in the NBA starts with LeBron and ends with Pierce.
And I'm fine, guy. A lot of smart people are in here challenging me and bringing up a lot of insightful points that might make me waver in my opinion. You've done nothing but spout insults, BS, and simple-minded comments easily countered.
You're crumbling under the fact that nothing you've said has stuck, so you have to resort to insults to try and prove your point.
You fail, Takeover, and your attempts at brining something to the discussion at hand fail as well.
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Jordan Baham 10 months ago
I think that was a smart move putting Carmelo after Shane. But after seeing Carmelo in the Olympics, I think he has matured a great deal having Coach K as a coach and all. I am eager to see what the forward has to offer this season. Maybe this season he can get his team past the first round at least.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
I hope so. The day Carmelo's switch turns on will be a better day for the NBA. And he looked more mature in the Olympics. Hopefully he doesn't treat as something simply coming easy to him, like he did his initial successes in college, and early in his professional career. And he doesn't have Camby anymore to clean up his mistakes. I hope for his sake (and Denver's sake), he learns to buckle down, focus, defend, and take over under pressure instead of withering away.
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James McNamee 10 months ago
Paul Pierce at number two, Erick, me and you have alot to agree on. Melo that low as well, wow, you might just be my hero, lol. Melo has been so overrated his entire career. The only thing I would say is I think Iguodala, Turkgolu, and Roy over Battier ( In no particular order ). Battier is one of the most under apreciated players in the NBA still, however, and you're ultimately right on about Melo.
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Harris Beringer 10 months ago
Where did you read that Ron Artest will play Power Forward? He's a bit short for that. He's SF, Battier is off the bench because he's not as good. Scola/Landry are PF.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Because he's played power forward before, because he gives the Rockets their best lineup with Battier, and because Battier is better than Scola. Artest has outmuscled Eddy Curry in the post, and has shut down Tim Duncan on more than one occasion. He's so good defensively, he'd be great as a power forward.
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Harris Beringer 9 months ago
I haven't seen any proof that Artest can defend power forwards for prolonged stretches. It would also be a problem for him offensively to go against power forwards.
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Harris Beringer 10 months ago
Posey is WAYYYYYY too high. Not even a starter.
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Erick Blasco 10 months ago
Don't be surprised if he takes Stojakovic's starter role, and he'll definitely take Peja's minutes at the end of games. Besides, is Ginobili a scrub simply because he doesn't start?
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Harris Beringer 9 months ago
Ginobili is much more effective than Posey, and plays starter minutes. Posey is average. The team overall is better with Peja on the floor. Maybe not in the final few minutes, but definitely over the course of a game.
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Bryan Svec 10 months ago
Pierce wouldn't even be in the top 5 if he didn't win the championship this year IMO. It's not hard to play well with two future hall of famers on your team.
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
Its why Pierce started playing great defense for the first time this year (He was good the first few years of his career and fell off from 03 thru 07). Allen as well (he never played good defense besides in 01 he was solid in 4th quarters....... this year was his first as a very good defendr).
They didnt have to focus ALL their energy on the offensive end carrying the load on every possession like they had in the past.
Kobe was a better defender this year than he was in 05,06 or 07.
Expect to see a similar turnaround in TMac now that he has Artest to help out with the scoring/playmaking load on the perimeter and Yao inside.............
TMac was a very good defender in Orlando up until 03 and a good defender in Toronto also. He had too muhc burden on offense in Houston creating every play......... funny thing is Rafers breakout on offense couldve helped alot for that but Yao got injured so TMac still had too much to do.
This year with a training camp start and a full-house from the beginning all healthy though. Expect very good defense again from TMac for the first time in 4 or 5 years..... and he should play some of the greatest ball of his career this year, maybe even better than he was in 02-03 (though his numbers will be nowhere near as gawdy due to the help he has).
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A-Train 10 months ago
Erick--First off, excellent writing and good analysis. If it's your goal to eventually write for a newspaper, magazine, website, etc., I think you're well on your way.
Secondly, I disagree with a few things you have in here and, of course, by "disagree," I mean your ass is wrong (LOL).
For starters, I do not know how the in the world you can list Brandon Roy as a three but not Stephen Jackson. I don't care what rationale you use in defending that, you're wrong. Roy is a guard--he's listed as one on every site--all the way through. He's a perimeter player, a ball handler--you're not going to see him post anybody up nor are you going to see him defend the majority of the guys on this list. A team can elect to start Muggsy Bogues at the three-spot, that doesn't mean Bogues is a three, nor does it mean he's going to defend the opposing small forward. I'd suggest going by the nature of the player's game. Jamal Crawford can start at point guard and bring the ball up, but you wouldn't have him on a list of point guards. Same concept here with Roy, who's a 6-foot-6 stick. Stephen Jackson is a couple of inches taller and goes inside more often. Caron Butler is muscular and bodies people. Iguodala is a little tougher to gauge--I don't have a problem with calling him a three, but I can see why some people would--he's listed as a guard-forward everywhere (I think Thad Young is their 3 though). But Roy is a guard all the way and shouldn't be on this list.
I love Shane Battier but to have him ranked third is insane. If we had a draft today and real life GMs could pick whoever they wanted, I doubt Battier goes top ten, let alone third. He's not better than most of the guys on this list. I think Carmelo is a bum, and I'd much rather have Battier too, but in reality, the two cannot be compared. One [Melo] clearly offers more than the other. Ask yourself what you would think of Melo if all he had to do is focus on defense and knock down the occasional open three. Ask yourself what you would think of Battier if he had to be "the man"? The responsibilities are on totally different levels--Melo has ten times the harder job. You can't compare a star to a "glue guy."
Gerald Wallace 13th but Josh Smith 18th... hmm. I don't like it. I think the Hawks have more potential and Smith is going to be the man. Also, Wallace has missed an average of 18 games per season over the last four years. I see what you're getting at--the Cats need Wallace more than the Hawks need Smith--but I think Wallace is proven unreliable.
Regarding Lamar Odom: "Odom’s length and athleticism give him the ability to take over games on both ends of the court." Take over games? Really?
And where the hell is Rashard Lewis? T-Mac?
Overall, really good piece. I think a lot of people misread/misunderstood/didn't read the premise of your list. You're not saying Bowen is better than Prince, but rather Bowen is more important to the Spurs this season than Prince is to the Pistons--in regards to a title run.
One thing you should have said in Battier's defense, that you failed to mention, is how important he'll be in keeping Ron Artest from going nuts. Really, I think it's Battier's job to keep Ron in check. And when you factor in that responsibility, I'd agree that Battier is more important to the Rockets than Melo is to the Nuggets.
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A-Train 10 months ago
I should have clarified a few things better... I focused on Jackson's height and role, rather than his importance. I think Jackson's play is the key to the Warriors' success this season--hence, I think he should be on the list.
I read what you wrote about why certain guys are not included (ie.--Lewis). My question asking where the hell they were isn't meant to be answered literally. I'm just saying, he and Turkoglu are the same exact player; the fact one starts at the four and one at three is just a technicality. They are both small forwards. I know why you separated them--I just don't agree.
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Clement Uduk 9 months ago
A-Train, thank you for this post. I really, really mean it. The Brandon Roy rubbed me incredibly wrong because the dude has been a SG since like high school!! Anyway, good rebuttal and if you need further back-up, I'm here.
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Jared Zeidman 10 months ago
I didn't fail at all. I'm not here to discuss with the other people that commented. I'm here to comment on your crappy work. Congratulations on your one year head start on me on this website.
You are a clown.
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JD Nsingui 10 months ago
Great article dude!
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MR JUGGERNAUT 10 months ago
Well, since this post has turned into a Carmelo Anthony/Shane Battier debate, I propose the solution to the Melo/Battier debacle, and any other debate of the players on this list. Any player that you think should be ranked higher on the list than another, why don't we "hypothetically" swap the players b/w their respective teams? If Melo and Battier were swapped for each other, I think Houston would be better with Melo taking Battier's spot, and Denver would be a million times worse with Battier taking his spot. I agree with Lebron being #1 because if you swap him with any of the other players on this list, he would most definitely be an upgrade to whichever team his lands with over the latter player. I do agree that Prince could probably be a little higher on the list, he's probably the most balanced offensively and defensively.
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Jeremy Kaufman 10 months ago
Good article, but I think you overrated Shane Battier a bit. Yes, his defense is amazing, but I don't know if I would put him above the likes of Carmelo Anthony, Brandon Roy, and Caron Butler.
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nl j 10 months ago
I know it's already been said. And I know you gave your reasoning. But still: Brandon Roy is NOT a SF.
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TJ Zwarych 10 months ago
Battier is a bit to high and Roy DEFINITELY isnt a sf
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Brett Fulmore 9 months ago
Shane Battier was traded for Rudy Gay before Gay ever stepped on an NBA court.
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Ari Wagner 9 months ago
Your player rankings are very off. You say in your article that Shane Battier is a premier defensive specialist with little appreciable offensive talent. How in the world can a player with little offensive talent be in the top 3 of the leagues small forwards, when a player like Josh Smith who is electric and talented on every end of the court is ranked 18th? Also I have a huge problem with Bruce Bowen being in the top 20, and you have him in the top 10. You mentioned that Danny Granger is too small for a small forward, but he is a cool 6-9 228lbs, who can use his speed to keep up with players and even his strength to keep defenders out of the paint. You got Posey at like 15 and the person starting over him is at 21? Posey is washed up and is only a role player. How is a role player above players like Rudy Gay, AK47, Lou Deng, Danny Granger ect.. If I may ask, how in the world did you come up with this list? Did you just put your personal favorites together and rank them by how much you like them? This is definitely not a NBA talent based list at all. Anytime you have LeBron James, Paul Pierce and Shane Battier in the same breath it better be when one of the top 2 is dunking all over Shane, not in the top 3 of an all NBA team.
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Ari Wagner 9 months ago
"On every end of the court." Meaning he is a great shot block defender and can be extremely productive offensively, where Battier has little offensive talent. My case being, if a player can be extremely effective on both sides of the ball and the other player can only be effective on one side, then how is that one sided player considered better. Just using Smith as an example for my point. If you can’t figure out what I mean when I say “electric and talented on every end of the court “referring to Josh Smith, then you must never have seen him play. He is an Atlanta Hawk, #5. You should watch him, he is a great player. Definitely better than 18th rank of small forwards.
…And your point was…
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Clement Uduk 9 months ago
Erick, I'm sorry, but you are wrong... so incredibly wrong. The propers to Roy were beautiful, but this man is explosive. Have you seen him play? His cross-over dribble and penetration is among the best in the league, and he has a uncanny and crafty way of getting from top of the key to the tin in less than 4 seconds. He may not dunk, but being able to drive past and get the easy lay-in is as explosive as these athletic high flying dunkers.
As a Blazermaniac, and employee that works during the Blazers games, Roy is not a small forward. He is as Cameron said a combo guard. Where Roy plays on defense has little determination on the position he plays. He did play some small forward near the end of the season-- I will give you that-- BUT, this man is namely a combo guard. I am guessing you do have a vendetta, because everyone else who covers the NBA (ESPN, NBA.com, reporters for various newspapers, websites and so on) rank Brandon as a SHOOTING GUARD. I’m sorry if I’m being abrasive, I really am. It is just that you’re wrong… terribly wrong. Rank Brandon Roy as a shooting guard from now on sir… until then, I’ve got a vendetta against you and all sports articles you write.
PS- I have been reading the comments, and you're getting flak for the Brandon Roy mentioning on this list... DOES THIS NOT TELL YOU SOMETHING?!?!
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Clement Uduk 9 months ago
I'm sorry sir, but you have taken the cake with the dumb comment contest. I pretty much stating my position, quite well in fact. And the mentioning of my job is to validate my stance on what I observe (which if I am not mistaken is a major part of basketball... I mean scouting doesn't do squat, right?) happening. You're just the kind of person I like to embarrass on these sites. Get some knowledge before you step to me son!
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Erick Blasco 9 months ago
I have to agree with Clement. He brought something to the table, you didn't Calvin. Maybe if you disproved his points you can smack talk, but that comment was full of fail.
Clement, every website I've seen (besides ESPN) has ranked Roy as a G/F. Same as Martell Webster. And besides, even if I amend my article, it's only the position he plays. It ultimately makes little difference! I'm shocked at the venom I've received for mis-listing Roy's position he plays. Isn't a player's characteristics, flaws, and strengths more important than the position he plays? And having this vendetta for something that makes little difference is a tad immature.
Back to Roy, exactly, his crossover is exceptional, and you used the adjectives, "uncanny" and "crafty." He relies on guile, setting an opponent up, not wasting excess movement, etc, to succeed, more than simply blowing by people. It's not a major flaw, but it's one reason why elite defenders can contain him easier than some. If they do the work and understand what Roy likes to do before he does it, it limits him.
Trust me, Roy is athletic enough to be great, and when he adds even more tricks, he'll be special. But if you compare him simply based on his athletic abilities, he's isn't anything ultra-special. The fact that he's so smart actually means more to me because it implies that he understands the game and the finer parts of being a playmaker, like setting opponents up.
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Casey Michel 9 months ago
Actually Calvin, your attempt at sarcasm - while providing neither a nullifying rebuttal nor an apt focus on the matter at hand - is more qualified as 'dumb' than anything Clement posited during his well-informed post. Not only have you disparaged a fellow member of the basketball community, but you fail to take into account that everything Clement said, from lack of defensive determinism to nationwide consensus (save, of course, for this post) on Roy's true position, is both veritable and verifiable.
Furthermore, as Clement works at Blazer games, he has undoubtedly witnessed more home games than all but the owners of Full Court packages. Granted, that gives him neither access to Nate McMillan's head nor a preview of the playbook, but his firsthand experience trounces those of 'analysts' debating certain merits - such as Roy's 'lack of explosiveness' - who glean information from second- or even third-hand sources.
So, Clemdog, to paraphrase what you said earlier, I've got your back.
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
Hahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahah!
What a horrible list!
Roy: "lack of explosion"
Are you freakin kidding me? Did you WATCH Brandon Roy last season? Serious question.
Battier is not a top 10 SF. Forget about top 3. That is SO RIDICULOUS. I would have Caron at 3 and Melo at 4.
Roy I'd have as a SG.
This isnt baseball where good pitching beats good hitting. If we're talking INDIVIDUAL defense (team defense is MUCH more important) than youre out of your mind if you think Battier's defense is more important or valuable than Carmelo's offense is. COMPLETELY out of your mind. Carmelo could dial up the effort and be an good defender overnight, just like that (See for example: Ray Allen of last year. At 32 years old, not 23: mind you). Battier could NEVER be a good offensive player.
It doesnt matter though. All htings considered: Battier isnt even in Artests league as a Small Forward in this NBA. Forget about an elite/all-nba level like Carmelo........ and you'll see just that as Artest takes Battier's starting job this year and Battier heads to the bench.
You are ridiculous man. Seriously. Battier? Seriously?!?!!?!?!? Better than CARMELO ANTHONY and BRANDON ROY and CARON BUTLER?!?!?!!?
Do you watch basketball. Were you a huge Duke fan when they were led by JWill and Battier? Serious questions.
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liam mcknight 9 months ago
JOSH HOWARD WAS THE ONLY MAVERICK THAT STEPPED UP AND LAID IT DOWN IN ALL THOSE SITUATIONS TOO!
You are such a fool. Seriously.
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rick liu 9 months ago
where is the top 30 shooting guard and point guard list? i promise i wont complain when you list mcgrady as point guard and say he's listed at small forward.
i tried reading some of these comments but lost my mind after the fifth time i read about roy being listed at sf and jokes about carmelo being great.
anyway's i'm on my mission to get battier and carmelo to play a 1 on 1 game against each other. since i want them to play for rizzles i'll need to raise 1 million dollars for the victor.
donate money to e-rick, unless your scared battier is better.
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rick liu 9 months ago
I also am surprised you left Yi Jianlian and Keith Van Horn off your list. The Mavs would a=have missed the playoffs if it wasn't for Keith carrying them during the trade deadline. I also think Yi will be a better defender than Carmelo this year.
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Waleed Ershad 9 months ago
Lol he has Battier at 3 and Bowen at 7. Now i appreciate the job they do for their teams as defensive stoppers and a consistent 1 or 2 3-pointers per game but...come on........
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