Kobe Bryant became the youngest NBA player to reach the 20,000-point mark last week.But is it all smoke and mirrors? Does youngest mean quickest?
Not necessarily.
20,000 points sounds amazing. That's because it is. Let's face it though: If you're a real stats fan, you have to look at the whole picture.
When you consider the total number of games it took Kobe to reach the plateau, it takes some of the punch out of the amazement.
I'm not taking anything away from Bryant—he's a great basketball player. But it took him 811 games to hit 20,000. Wilt Chamberlain, by comparison, did it in 499 games.
Now THAT's amazing.
Michael Jordan, for his part, pulled the feat in 620 contests. And if you break it down in terms of points per game, Kobe falls even further behind.
Wilt hit 40.1 PPG; Jordan hit 32.3. Kobe? 24.7.
20,000 doesn't sound quite so good now, does it?
I'm afraid the only thing this milestone really means is that Bryant's head will swell a little larger than it already is.
41 comments Last one added 4 months ago — Leave a Comment
Anonymous about 1 year ago
Though Bryant came out of high school, you should also consider that he didn't start for a couple of years and also did not get the minutes that Jordan and Wilt did nor the possessions they had. You have to take that into consideration as well. So, it's not just the number of games.
No one can match Wilt's numbers, though. He was playing against slow, smaller guys.
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karma toby 4 months ago
to be fair you should count the minutes they played to get that far.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
dude...you preach about "looking at the whole picture" to analyze kobe's milestone and yet you yourself fail (or shall i say ignore) to seriously take into account the difference between kobe's and the other two players' career paths? what kind of hypocrite are you? it's pretty sad you have to resort to sounding "fair" in order to make a knock against kobe instead of actually making logical, cogent points. for example, jordan was drafted to an ailing bulls that hardly ever made the playoffs and barely had any truly talented players. on the contrary, kobe was drafted to a perennial playoff contending team that had several all-star caliber team mates, not to mention somebody named SHAQ who was traded to the lakers the same year kobe was drafted. because of these disparate conditions, jordan literally had the right to do whatever he pleased on the court the second he came to the nba, whereas kobe needed to play off the bench despite his obvious talents. kobe drafted to the bulls and jordan to the lakers would have resulted in the same way; in this case then, would you claim jordan was somehow "worse" than kobe? get real- both are phenomenal players who simply faced differing situations. it's the exact same thing with lebron; he was drafted to one of the worst teams in the nba with no other good player; he gets to do whatever he wants on the team, hence his much "superior" early year stats compared to kobe's early year stats. does this illustrate that lbj is much better than kobe? hardly.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
kobe didnt start game 4 his 1st 2 seasons n its a serious effot if u can play 4 lakrs at 18yrs,ur wilt n jordan didnt hav it in them.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
No, even at eighteen, Jordan's competitiveness would have hauled him off and above the heap. I don't agree with the theory that goes " jordan was pretty much to do whatever he pleased on the offensive end". Nobody enjoys that much freedom in the NBA. That right you have to earn one way or another. If Kobe was kept on the bench his first couple seasons , it's becasue he was not deemed apt to take over a game. jordan was. And contrary to popular belief, jordan had a good cast his rookie year. orlando woolridge, dave corzine, sellers... not to take anything away from Kobe, But MJ was just more intense.
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Anonymous Anonymous about 1 year ago
MJ was the primary scorer on the Chicago Bulls for all his career. He averaged more shot attempts and was the focal point of the offense. On the other hand, Kobe was not truly the primary option till Shaq left (in 2004). You can clearly see the spike in Kobe's PPG after Shaq left. Kobe would have been in the same position, in terms of statistics, if given the same opportunity as Jordan. But you cannot truly compare Kobe and Jordan. They are two players from a different era, different teams, different career paths, etc. The only thing they possess in common, which current NBA players lack, is the unrelentless desire to win. If you want to compare them, they go ahead and compare them, but not statistically. It's just not a valid comparison.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
To the person above me: Are you kidding me? It wasn't a theory, it was a fact that Jordan had permission to work the floor. And it's pretty clear you can't make great comparisons to make your point: shaq, van exel, eddie jones, campbell, horry, ceballos VS woolridge, corzine, sellers???????? It's not that he wasn't deemed good enough, it's because people like Shaq were there. Do you seriously think that if Jordan was drafted to the Lakers that year that he would start, and that even if he did, that he would put up the same numbers he put up as a Bull? Sorry, you are apparently so mired in denial to think that the two points you disagree with are "theories" and "popular belief", when in fact they're, well, facts. Maybe you do have a decent knowledge of basketball, I don't know, but your last post definitely shows otherwise. The fact is that given the SAME freedom Jordan had, Kobe would have significantly higher stats his initial seasons that would easily rival Jordan's. I'm not sure of surpassing, but just rivaling. Why? Because of one very simple fact you fail to even address: Kobe was an 18 year old high school graduate when he came to the league, whereas Jordan had ALREADY played 3 years of college basketball. This sufficiently shows how Kobe challenges the general consensus that Jordan is the "best" player. It is highly doubtful that Kobe, AFTER 3 years of college ball and drafted to the Bulls the SAME year Jordan was, would put up smaller numbers. It's that clear.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
And by "person above me" I mean, "the person above 2 spaces" who starts off with "no, even at eighteen, Jordan..." And I'd like to give my apologies: yes, you do address the 18 year old issue; however, that doesn't change anything because the rest of my argument still resolves that issue.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
why does this guy PHILLIP HOUGHTON hate kobe so much, you are trying to sound intelligent but you are not, your argument is so biased its pathetic.what do you mean the only thing this achievement will do his swell kobe's head, fuck u. kobe is the best player in the NBA. Wilt was a center and jordan did 3 years in college and then was drafted to a weak team, their offence ran through Jordan you dumbass.Jordan did not play with an all star center, who is one of the top 50 basketball players to ever play and one of the most dominant force in the league.DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT IF JORDAN HAD TAKEN THE SAME CAREER PATH AS KOBE HE WOULD AVERAGE 30 WHEN THE TEAM OFFENSE WOULD BE RAN THROUGH SHAQ.HEY PHILLIP HATERON WHAT DID KOBE DO TO U REFUSE AN INTERVIEW, HA HA.YOU ARE A POOR EXCUSE FOR A JOURNALIST.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
kobe haters are NOT true basketball fans. anyone who loves the game of bball cannot and would not deny the talent kobe possesses. its so trivial of to try to diminish kobe's accomplishments by saying he was not the "quickest." the record he broke was the YOUNGEST you retards. you cannot compare kobe to wilt anyway -- due to league rules, wilt was able to just stand in the paint for as long as he wished and toss the ball in. wilt was head and shoulders taller than most players. clearly if the 3 second rule was around and wilt, like kobe, was double teamed by guys as tall or taller than he, wilt's points would definitely be much, much less. by the way, people seem to forget how criticized MJ was in his day -- same criticisms as kobe - ballhog, too demanding on teammates, blah, blah... love the game and appreciate the fact that you get to watch a legend in the making.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Dear Philip,
All the above comments are perfectly valid. Your theory is totally flawed. "Freedom of expression"..I guess expressing everything without a second thought. O well.. Kobe didn't start for 2 years, played 15-20 minutes a game and was never LA's primary scorer. Unless you have a formula to include all this in your analysis, please refrain from using internet for suhc theories. Appreciate you understanding.
Thanks
Stan
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Dear Phillip aka Jackass/Dumbass/attention seeker,
Why does everytime a writer's career is not going n e where they do an article on Kobe. U r talking about the whole picture, what whole picture ass wipe. You are looking at the whole picture of arguments against kobe.Why is your argument so one sided.If your r a professional y would u even post this article its stupid, its garbage,its phillip.kobe is the best player in the NBA and he strives off negative/bullshit articles like this.it seems like yuur hate for kobe is contagious because i dont know you and i hate u,faggot.Go get a new job.
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Judy Fanslau about 1 year ago
Kobe if you're reading this please know that this 71 yr. old grandma loves to watch you play the same as I love to watch tiger woods play golf. You are THE BEST. Through thick and thin I've rooted for you prayed for you and know that God has your back no matter what right? How fun to be able to see your milestones.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
why do you say "not to take anything away from bryant" yet you go take everything.You obviously dont like kobe and you are obviously blinded by your hate.your argument totally based against kobe.hope u dont get paid to post this article because your employers are being ripped off.Next time you are making an analysis why dont really look whole picture and not the whole help of the picture.By the way go kill yourself you piece of shit.
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Dr Len Gilman about 1 year ago
Kobe is great. Jordan was greater. James will have the youngest 20,000 one day. But nothing will ever compare to 20,00 points in 499 games that the Big Dipper did averageing over 40 points per game. That was against a much better group of centers then today. Reed, Bellamy, Thurmond, Beatty, and Bill Russell to name a few. I am not just quoting stats I saw him play from day 1.Dr Len
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
I think your take is off base and you missed looking at the whole picture. Too bad, could have been an informative story instead of a side-slam of one of the best players ever.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
get out of here. look who you said orlando woolridge. kobe was on a team with three all star caliber players eddie jones, shaq and nick van exel. The organization held kobe back because they didn't want to put him in the LA limelight at 17. he was more than ready skill wise. as an 11th grader he worked out with the sixers and beat every player they threw at him including jerry stackhouse who averaged 22 points a game that year. taking a highschool player was considered a huge gamble and teams were reluctant to select him especially with camby, iverson, ray allen, marbury, and shareef destroying opponents in college. had kobe went to the sixers that year he probably would own almost every scoring record by now. so he was the number 8 option for 2 years, the number two option for 6 years, and the number 1 option for just three years and still managed to get 20,000 points? thats more impressive than jordan and almost as impressive as wilt.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
you people area all pretty funny.... who cares what you think kobe would have done.... thats all speculation.... what jordan has is fact. you can assume but will never know if kobe would have played alot better in the younger years.... but it is known that jordan did. anywayz i am not a kobe hater... his my favourite player now... hes the closest thing i have now to jordan to watch.... but he no michael jordan... i have watched alot of jordan games and all the laker games since kobe has been on his own ... jordan is just the man im sorry. Kobe is great player but why dont you people relax.. jordan played through a few eras incase you forgot... first 3 peat and second... he has earnt the hype. nearly everythig kobe does is derived from jordan... jordan has created a new style. even kobe says about jordan : "he is the master"
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
I totally disagree with this article, but I'm not going to say the same things mentioned by the other readers. I will say this though - this article started a big thread of comments, and probably got a good amount of readers, so I suppose Philip Houghton got what he wanted. Not that this is good for your journalistic integrity (if you even are a journalist, maybe a blogger?) but good job in being controversial.
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Dave Finocchio about 1 year ago
How is this controversial? How can you possibly argue that someone is "a hater" for stating that there's some significance to the fact that Kobe Bryant had to play a lot more games to reach a milestone than other players did. It's not an argument...it's a fact.
Kobe Bryant fans are in a class of their own, truly...
While we're on the subject, I'd like an excuse (I mean explanation) from the Kobe heads. Why is Michael Jordan's career field goal % almost 5 full percentage points higher than Kobe Bryant's?
Anyone?
Guys—Kobe's an all-time great, but you lose credibility when you try to argue that he's better than Michael Jordan. Either you weren't watching the NBA in the 1990's or you're just not very smart.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Dave must be related to the author of this shitty article Philshit whoreton.What facts are you talking about?You say kobe played alot more games, well no kidding einstein.You should ask your self why did the best player in the NBA take so many games to reach the milestone.Let me help you out, in a nutshell, he was drafted out of high school into the NBA and traded to a team which already had several stars, he had to work his way up, when he did make the starting 5 there was someone named shaq there who the lakers offense was ran through.Chicago's offense was ran through jordan from day 1.Pertaining to fg % thats too easy, jordan drove to the basket more while kobe prefers to take jump shots because is a better shooter than jordan was.
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Dave Finocchio about 1 year ago
Exactly...Kobe has had to settle for more outside jumpers earlier in his career than Jordan did. But let me also remind you that Jordan lived off of 18-20 footers during the last three championship runs (and still shot over 50%).
Let me summarize:
- Kobe Bryant is "the best ever" at hitting incredibly difficult jump shots
- Kobe Bryant is not as offensively efficient as Michael Jordan
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
uh, dave. jordan's fg% is better because jordan lived off driving to the basket most of his career, whereas kobe has the superior jump shot. even phil jackson admitted kobe has much more range and accuracy than jordan did. you're right, what this author did was provide a fact; however, it was a deliberately isolated fact that ignored other crucial aspects that contributed to that one fact. do you know what that's called? LYING. and for your information, only idiots straight up take facts and numbers for more than what they are truly worth; it's the analysis of these data that is important. dave-either you were watching the nba only casually, or you're just not very smart.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
and to the person who claims "jordan had his own style" and "kobe derived everything from jordan". sorry, you just gave yourself away as an amateur bball fan. did you ever hear of a person name, mmm, dr. j? in his own words, jordan emulated his game after dr. j. so don't go thinking that kobe modeling his game after jordan is some debilitating fact.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
settle for? have you never seen kobe's earlier career games? kobe had essentially the same explosive and eye-stunning drives to the basket as jordan did in addition to his ever improving range; where do you think the comparison comes from? out of thin air? it's because they share the same glitz. however, i do believe jordan was slightly more efficient than kobe is. but what's your point? that that's a "knock" on kobe's skill set? you must be on drugs to think that makes kobe any less than jordan; does jordan's not having the ability to hit the same difficult shots kobe does make jordan any less than kobe? in my book, jordan is still one of the all-time greats, but kobe is not very far from him (and certainly equal in terms of talent-level)
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Dave Finocchio about 1 year ago
Yes, settle for.
Kobe hurt his knees and stopped going to the basket with ruthless abandon earlier in his career than Jordan.
To state the obvious one more time: Jordan was better.
Maybe not in terms of individual skills and abilities, but in terms of his impact on a game, he was much, much better.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
i can see how jordan probably had a little more impact on the game, but i highly doubt it's any significant matter. why? because of precisely what we agreed on: that their talents are pretty similar. kobe the last few years was jordan his first few years in the league: complete unleashing of skills without much impact on his team. but jordan was eventually fortunate enough to have the bulls surround him with the right people, just like kobe was fortunate enough to have shaq and superb role players in his early career. i truly believe neither would have won any rings without their respective cast of reliable and dominant role players or "side-kicks". kobe's and jordan's career up till last season have been anti-parallel, but kobe seems to be righting the ship and displaying some change this season, perhaps making a return to his earlier career soon. moreover, a few of his team mates are improving, so not only am i now actually waiting to see how bryant can elevate his team's performance in different ways than simply being a spectacular player, but i'm also hoping the lakers can add or continue to mold players analogous to "pippen", "rodman", "kerr", or "kukoc" who are also compatible. odom, unfortunately, was a potential pippen, but he is too soft and injury-prone. in reality, his name is worth more than his actual abilities.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
and just wondering, why is the main discussion right now "who is better between jordan and kobe"? i thought the main issue was that the author employed dishonest methods to diminish kobe's accomplishments, and that cetera paribus, kobe would have had very similar stats as jordan did? i'm a jordan and kobe fan, but jordan still ranks higher as a basketball figure than kobe because he has already cemented his legacy while kobe is still building his.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Well to play as many games as Kobe in such a "young" age is an achievement in itself.
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Philip Houghton about 1 year ago
I really appreciate all of the comments made on the article. I find it amusing of all the "anonymous" persons. I guess Kobe had the night off and logged onto bleacherreport.com What I can't understand though is people calling me a Kobe hater. Saying I'm "lying" and "dishonest". All I did was state a fact of stats. I said Kobe was a great player. It's just that he's not the greatest.
How can one not admit that it took Kobe more games played to reach the milestone than it did with fourteen other players. It's laughable that some people even commented that Kobe had to sit on the bench his first few years and wasn't able to play. At the age of 18 years 2 months and 11 days, Kobe Bryant became the youngest man ever to play in the NBA. Bryant bypassed college and moved straight from high school to the NBA. So if he sat for two years that would make him 20. Wilt joined when he was 22 yrs 10 months and 3 days. The NBA did not accept players who had not finished their last year of college studies. Still, it only took him 499 games as compared to 811 games. For those of you who cant subtract. It's a difference of 312 games.
I find it sad that people claim to be a real BB fan yet they are ignorant on the history of the game. They only live in the current day. Players are able to play pro ball at a younger age now so it only makes sense that "age" records will continue to be broken. What kind of accomplishment is that? Wilt did not have the opportunity that Kobe did. It was a different world back then. Yet people still ignore the fact that it only took Wilt 499 games.
If you want to look at "age" records then keep your eye on Lebron James. James has reached total of 9,000 points at the age of 22 years, 352 days, and broke the record held by Bryant (24 years, 127 days) to reach that mark. If he stays healthy Kobe will fall further down the list.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Are u fucking kidding me? Are you really this stupid?Seriously, i now know u really really hate Kobe.Let me break this down for you, Wilt was a center, kobe is a shooting guard, back in the Wilt days there wasn't n e 3 second violation, he basically lived in the key and scored. ASS WIPE, KOBE TOOK SO MANY GAMES BECAUSE OF HIS CIRCUMSTANCE.Lebron came into the league to a weak team, he started from day one, the team's offense runs through just like how it ran through Jordan.PLUS Kobe once had a team mate named Shaquille O'neal, remember him, 1 of the top 50 greatest players whose LA's offense was ran through while he was in la.Y dont u analyze Kobe career b4 u start talking shit.DO ME A FAVOUR GO RUN IN FRONT OF A MOVING TRUCK DICK HEAD.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
FUCK YOU! DO ME A FAVOUR GO HIDE IN A SMELLY PUSSY DICK HEAD!!!
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
wow. even after logical refutations of your article, you fail to see your shortcomings. good luck to you in your life philip; you're going to need it.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
lbj's situation is exactly like mj's: drafted to a crappy team with no other quality players, hence his freedom to do whatever he pleased. you really think kobe on the cavs would have averaged what he did as a rookie on the lakers? kevin durant averages nearly 20 points on the sonics this season. does that make durant better than kobe? you must be insane to fail to realize all the various factors that affect a player's game. keep living in your hermit shell.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
i refuse to hide in you mother's pussy. have some respect for her.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Dave. They're just not very smart.
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Philip Houghton about 1 year ago
Dave. They're just not very smart.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
haha philip, looks like someone had the night off and started posting anonymously.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
philclit looks desperate, no i know y dat one person agreed with u, because it was u.
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Anonymous about 1 year ago
Philip are you retarded? or are you retarded? or maybe u r just simply retarded? these r the only ways i can describe.Your argument is flawed and you have been corrected mnay from what i c with d comments,99.99% of the comments disagree with (the other .001% seems to be u in disguise (what a loser)) and instead of taking the correction u continue with your illogical reasoning.Your should change your name to Retarded Moreon.
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karma toby 4 months ago
to be fair, you should count the minutes they played to get this far.
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