While I'm not going to sit here and act like ESPN's ombudsman Le Anne Schreiber (who by the way is doing a tremendous job at the Worldwide Leader), or in the least bit act like the ombudsman of Bleacher Report, I wanted to give my thoughts on the mission and quality of this site.
The founders of this site—Zander Freund, Dave Finocchio, Bryan Goldberg, and Dave Nemetz—have done a phenomenal job creating an open source network where anyone can join and write about sports.
I want to stress the word write. That's one of my problems with this site. Too many writers basically write AP stories. So many of the recaps and previews I read on this site look like someone just digested an AP and spit it out in "Bleacher Report" style (I'll touch on this in a little bit). Most people just write, not report.
Bleacher Report writers, I'm asking you to provide detailed analysis of the game. Show me something the AP story can't tell me. Report what the crowd was doing. Report about an odd play or disputed call that influenced the game. Report if the starting pitcher was leaving his fastball up in the zone or report if his attempt to establish his fastball for strike one was going nowhere.
This site is here to show off your personality, and a lot of guys don't do that. At the same time there are a lot of impressive, talented writers on this site.
I don't want to seem as if I'm patting the back of a friend, but I don't want the work of Peter Bukowski to go unnoticed. While I don't always agree with what he writes, I enjoy it because it's blatantly obvious the guy puts a remarkable amount of effort into each piece. See his NFL draft preview to understand what I'm talking about.
This site needs more guys who do what he does and rightly deserve the thousands of reads he deserves. Writers on this site need to feel free to write the way they want to write, not always in the "Bleacher Report Style," which comes across as a glorified AP style.
As much as I really appreciate those who edit my articles, it can be very annoying when the only thing changed is putting my article in BR Style.
I'm guessing the first person who edits this will start to shorten my paragraphs instead of trying to figure out how to make this sentence sound more astute.
There's a disclaimer though—too often on this site writers type out lists and other editorials that, to put it simply, have no thought behind them. A good writer pours his time into looking up stats and stories to accompany his lists. My favorite lists to ignore are "best fan lists" and "traditions lists."
The majority of the people who write these don't have any authority to really write them. Hell, I probably don't have the authority to tell them they don't have the authority or credibility to write them.
I plainly ask the question to those writers: Have you lived in those cities, experienced all those traditions, or taken the time to watch all the things you write about?
The answer is probably universally no.
31 comments Last one added 6 months ago — Leave a Comment
sam the fact checker about 1 year ago
i really dont want to read anymore recaps also...plus espn, nba and si always have more better ones anyways...what i want to read are the writers own personal opinions on things...things that other people are too afraid to say...and i agree with this paragraph...
"For other writers just starting out, please take my suggestions and put them to use in your writing and the topics you chose to dwell on. Don't write dumb, over opinionated, extremely angry articles unless you can back up every single word you write. If you are going to compose a list make sure you do your homework. Anyone who knows more than you do about something will call you out immediately."
all in all...very nice...
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Jerry Burnes about 1 year ago
I agree, there has been a lot of sub-par articles and great articles on this site. I really can't stand when someone does a team preview and gives little reasoning, or just insults a player for their size, etc, when that person could really make an impact.
Overall, love the article.
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Adam Amick about 1 year ago
Great piece, Jameson. Makes me stop and think about some things I've written over the past two years.
I have done some recap-related pieces. I'm going to resume my weekly (hopefully) Racing Roundup pieces, because I believe I'm bringing in news from a number of racing series in a concise report, so readers don't have to chase all over the web.
Your piece also gives me a good feeling about my 'Splain This opinion stories, and my Racing 101 educational series. I also need to pursue more interviews with drivers, like my recent Scott Speed piece.
So I find this some good food for thought. Even though in two years my portfolio contains a combination of reports, educational, and opinion pieces, I don't want to wind up in the "Department of Redundancy Department".
Thanks for taking the time to write a well-considered article.
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Max Fischer about 1 year ago
I must admit, I don't like the precedent this article sets. The last thing we need is everyone going around writing articles complaining about how other people write articles in a way they don't like. What is great about this site is that it allows people to break away from the herd mentality of sports talk.
I have noticed if you try to make a post on a subject that is controversial or is negative about your team on a normal internet message board for your team, your fellow fans of that team won't allow it. Say the wrong thing and people hold grudges and the next thing you know you are banned.
What is so great about this site is that it gives you a forum to comment on anything you want without worrying about having your rights of free speech taken away. If that ability to speak freely bothers you, it seems to me this is the wrong place for you, not the other way around.
If you start creating a criteria for writers, claiming that someone isn't literate enough, someone doesn't use enough stats for your liking, someone is too controversial, someone doesn't reseach enough(accoding to you), this site is going to become as elitist and stagnant as all other sports talk. It seems that would defeat the entire purpose of the site.
But, maybe that's just me.
If the recaps are a problem, there is an easy solution, just find a way to seperate those from the other types of articles. I think those are the types of things that should be worked on, formatting, organizing etc. Not complainging about how people choose to write their articles. Who are you or I or anyone else to say how people should be allowed to express themselves?
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Dave Nemetz about 1 year ago
Funny you mention that Max, we're actually working on a new layout to the site that will separate re-caps and previews from other types of content to make the site more organized and give people better context around what different articles are about. Can't say when that will arrive, but hopefully soon. In the meantime, hope you enjoy the new 'Related Articles' sidebar.
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Saraswathi Siriginia about 1 year ago
The revamp of the site is already started I guess! Can see it in bits-and-pieces.
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Jameson Fleming about 1 year ago
I can understand where you are coming from with this article setting a precedent when it comes to the standards of the articles that should be on this site. That's not what I was going for and by the rest of your comment it seems as if you understand that.
I mainly wanted to get across in the end, think before you write. If you are going to bash something make sure as I said in the article be ready to be able defend every single word you write.
I put it this way, columnists for newspapers basically have an entire business day to write a column or article. They research everything and put together a well thought out piece. While obviously someone who's writing on here isn't going to take a day to write something, at least spend as much time as you need to put something good out there.
It's very apparent when someone took about 20 minutes to write something and it's filled with falacies.
I agree with you about sports forums online. Man they suck. You can't write a darn thing negative or conflicting with the overall room's attitudes without getting completely bashed. And yes that is what's so great about this site is you can write conflicting, controversial stuff, I just have always thought don't get sensational with what you write and again be able to back what you write up.
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Max Fischer about 1 year ago
Thanks for the response, Dave! I am really happy to hear that the site is taking that approach! I do like that sidebar. Very cool. :)
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Saraswathi Siriginia about 1 year ago
Some good observations on the site. For me, B/R is an experience one can't do without and most of the people here are amateur sports writers who are trying to hone their skills here with the feedback they get. Being an open source web site, community etc, B/R is great breaking ground for some unusual writers, and writeups. Okay, we need not like all the articles, but then, being an open source network much like Sourceforge or Freshmeat is for software projects, B/R can aim to be the Linux of Sports Newscasting, News site, and a favorable research ground for sports lovers. It makes all types of people to make the world of sport. Who are we to judge what is likeable by the majority and not likeable? We can only say as much, and no more.
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Matt Eichel about 1 year ago
Recaps and regurgitated articles from other sports websites are a little annoying sometimes. Other times there are breaking stories that some people think that are interesting or really important that need to be covered.
There is a lack of individuality in some articles too. It's good to hear this because it makes us all think about what we can do to improve.
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Jameson Fleming about 1 year ago
Overall thanks everyone for the very positive feedback. I was really expecting to get a lot of nasty, bitter comments telling me I'm an idiot when I wrote this along with some positive.
To be honest, I originally planned to write this about six weeks ago, but never got around to it. At that time I was really frustrated with a lot of the stuff that was on here, but as this site grows, the all around the quality of the stuff on here is getting really solid in my opinion.
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Ben White about 1 year ago
Good stuff.
I especially agree with your point about the edits that mold every story into the AP style. I would like to believe that the people on this site are looking for information above and beyond the newspaper and are willing to read a well crafted paragraph.
Blogs, essays, and opinions do not have to be broken down into single sentences.
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Andrew Kneeland about 1 year ago
Great article, and I couldn't agree more. Although I have been guilty of what you say a few times, I hope I am getting better.
Thanks.
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The Captain -Brian Kates about 1 year ago
Well, you asked for it, you got it (I think this is what you are talking about). Check out my latest on "The Men of Summer (Winter)!" The one thing that gets me is that I cannot (for some reason) add pics to my articles. Interesting and honest piece of writing, though. And no, I didn't edit it (it didn't need it). Keep up the good work!
GO WINGS!!!!!!!!!
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Ben Horner about 1 year ago
Great article, very helpful for a fairly new member and aspiring sports writer like myself. I particularly agree with your bit about editing. I'm tired of people "APing" my articles so much that I can't even recognize them anymore...
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Jeff Little about 1 year ago
Great article, and I couldn't agree more. You make some valid points and thoughts that I really try to pride myself by. I do my research prior to every I write. I love the revamp of the site as well.
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Zander Freund about 1 year ago
Thanks for all the feedback Jameson—it is very helpful to hear your perspective on these matters, and we will surely take what you say into consideration. Don't hesitate to email me with further suggestions!
Zander
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Tim Pollock about 1 year ago
I hate to be the only negative voice, but:
What separates this "article" from the "I just got 20,000 reads" article?
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Jameson Fleming about 1 year ago
Not sure what you are getting at with that?
I'm simply giving my thoughts of what I think of the site not praising myself for getting 20,000 reads.
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Tim Pollock about 1 year ago
Well, this has nothing to do with sports. It's more of a journal entry of your thoughts. Send your mission statement to the B/R guys via email--not through an "editorial."
I just get tired of reading all these "articles" that say how terrible this is, how much that could be improved, blah blah blah.
This has been done before:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/14292-letter-to-the-editors-stop-changing-the-writers-content
and will be done again, as everyone seems to have the "right" answer for what B/R "should" do.
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Jameson Fleming about 1 year ago
Yeah I understand this site is for sports writing but this "editorial" does a lot more good being published so that hundreds of people and writers can read it and hopefully take my suggestions to improve themselves. If I send this to Zander, I'm not exactly sure what he could possibly do to improve the writing on this site other than send a message to everyone.
I don't know if you read the entire thing but I don't just sit here and bash the site like your comment implies.
My article doesn't have a lot in common with the one you posted.
I'm trying to avoid being nasty, but if you are tired of reading these "Articles" then don't. If you see a headline that suggests it, don't read it. There's writers on here I can't stand so for the most part I don't read them.
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Zander Freund about 1 year ago
To be fair, a large part of the article is geared towards writers of the site. Jameson is merely encouraging them to hone their craft and improve their work. He's correct in the sense that by publishing these recomendations to the network at large that he can reach a greater amount of writers, whereas an email to me has a limited impact in this regard (Zander Freund is only one man, LOL)
That said, we really appreciate your optimism Tim and that you want to keep the conversation focused on sports. Going forward, let's just make sure articles of this nature are tagged solely with "Bleacher Report" and not league/sport specific tags so they don't detract from the experience of the average sports fan looking to read about his favorite teams and players.
On another note: Jameson you'll be happy to know that we'll be breaking up articles by type on league/team pages going forward and thus you'll be able to view only editorials (rather than news recaps) if that's what you're after...see Bryan's note below for details.
Thanks again to both of you guys for being such active contributors to our Community!
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Bryan Goldberg about 1 year ago
Thanks Everyone! We have heard you loud and clear both in this chain and in previous feedback pieces.
The issue of mixing together too many different TYPES of articles — i.e. Recaps, Previews, Editorials — is one that everyone agrees needs to be fixed.
The solution?
Now that people are able to identify their articles as Recap vs. Preview vs. Editorial, we are going to start separating them on the league and team pages. I can't tell you when this change is going to happen, but I can tell you that it's the direction we're heading in.
So in the future if you show up to the NHL Page, you will see one part of the page dedicated exclusively to Recaps, and a different section dedicated to analysis/editorials. If you want to read the Recaps, then read them. If you never want to look at them, you don't have to!
What are your thoughts on this idea? Feedback is always welcome!
Bryan
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Nino Colla about 1 year ago
Seeing how something I took a lot of time into writing yesterday, is already no where to be found even on the Indians page. I like this idea very much. No offense to people who do the recaps or anything, but if it isn't a well written recap, I don't think it even deserves to be on the first page.
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Alan Bass about 1 year ago
btw, ur very close to right about the thing u said about me...my first few articles (or 20 articles for that matter) were not very good, and i was called out on it by a CL, and i took some time to write better articles, and now im seeing better results. thanks for the compliment though and the constructive criticism. this was a kickass article
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Peter Bukowski about 1 year ago
Jameson, I've always respected your sports knowledge and your opinions. In fact, you are one of the few people with whom I feel I can have an informed sports conversation. I deeply appreciate your "shout-out" even if you are a friend. Maybe someday it will be like Bill Simmons and Chad Ford arguing the NBA Draft or something who knows?
Keep up the good work man, I enjoy your stuff and I wish I would have seen this sooner. A friend from BC who I got hooked on b/r sent me a text that said "I saw the article complimenting your writing...don't believe it" I was confused because I hadn't done a lot of reading on the site the last couple of days cuz I have been so busy praying the Heat would take and keep Michael Beasley.
Thanks again and tell your Phillies to keep pummeling the rest of the division, my Brewers really deserve the wild card more than any of the other jokesters out East.
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Peter Bukowski about 1 year ago
I wanted to make a separate point about this article so I thought I'd make it a separate post. I think recaps are only relevant here if they are the kind you won't find on ESPN.com or SI.com etc. For example, when Jameson recaps the first round the LAX tourney, that is highly relevant and exactly the kind of reporting bleacher should be facilitating and perpetuating.
Writers here should be writing about local sports, college sports, even amateur sports. If someone wrote a recap of the arena league playoffs, I would read it. College baseball is the same way, or tennis, or whatever. There are so many sports to cover and you could write a pretty good story if you just watch the game on television. Certainly quotes enhance your story, but if you're gonna use a wire copy to pull from, don't use the rest of the AP to write your story.
I would love to see more MMA articles, college sports articles particularly under publicized sports, conferences, or teams. And my strict journalism friends will get mad at me for this, but people LOVE rumors. If you hear one, WRITE about it. Don't write about it as fact, but people love to read about what people are talking about, thinking about, and want to see happen. There are just so many avenues here, writing a box score style recap for MLB, NBA, NFL, or major college sports seems like a job better left to the AP.
Keep up the good work Jameson and everyone on the site. I would love to see bleacher continue to grow and really do what it is meant to do, foster the growth of aspiring sports writers while also providing an outlet for people who just want to talk to other people about sports.
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Thomas Brown 11 months ago
'One last negative note: Folks, is it necessary to write an article reporting the fact you've gotten 13,244 reads on this site or written 50 articles? Now I can understand a little if it's 100,000 reads or 200 articles or something that's really substantial.
But if you are in the 10,000s in reads, it's not really that big of a deal. I've got around 13,000, and I've written a ton of recaps imported from my old blog that barely anyone has a reason to read."
Kind of ironic that you report how many reads you got after telling everyone not to do it...
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Jameson Fleming 11 months ago
My point was its not a big deal to have 10,000s of read because I got that many without doing much through posting all my blog entries. I was not attempting to brag about my accomplishments in the least bit.
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Bryan Trafford 10 months ago
so what is a big number of reads worth writing about or patting yourself on the back? just curious
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Saraswathi Siriginia 6 months ago
yeah, there are some who would like to gloat about numbers...well, to each their own....
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