The first installment of hopefully many in my Greatest Ever series is here! In this series I will look at the greatest talents to grace various sports. Enjoy!
There have been many great batsmen over the years. From W.G Grace to Sachin Tendulkar, it seems that every generation throws another great into the mix. I have condensed it down to a list of the top ten, in my opinion.
10. W.G. Grace (ENG) - Playing in the 1800s, William Gilbert Grace was the first star of cricket, putting it on the map. His displays are stuff of legend, and, although his average seems worse than others, that may be because he played well into his fifties in a 44 year career. Immediately distinguishable by his bushy beard, he played in an era without the high tech bats and the protective gear in use today. He's the type of player we may never see again in the game.
9. Ricky Ponting (AUS) - The captain of the dominate force in world cricket, Ricky Ponting has been consistently putting in match winning performances for the Aussies, helping them to Ashes victories and a World Cup victory, and that's just on the Test scene. He holds numerous records and is one of a handful of people to reach over 10,000 Test match runs.
8. Sunil Gavaskar (IND) - Gavaskar is one of the greatest opening batsmen in cricket history. Although he played during a time when the Indian team weren't hugely successful, especially when he was captain, he stood out as a great batter. Another one of the handful to have achieved over 10,000 Test runs.
7. Sir Jack Hobbs (ENG) - Jack Hobbs was often referred to as "The Master", and it's easy to see why. Widely regarded as the greatest opening batsmen of all time, he was voted as one of the five Wisden Cricketers of the Century. Playing in the early 1900s, Hobbs didn't get a huge amount of Test runs, but was still seen as a formidable force. His records in First Class cricket still remain, where he scored over 60,000 runs, and took 108 wickets, a phenomenal record.
6. Allan Border (AUS) - Former captain of the mighty Australia, Border still holds the record for amount of consecutive Test appearances (153). He, again held numerous World Records at the time of his retirement. One of which was the most Test runs ever, with 11,174, a record since passed by number two on this list.
5. Sir Garfield Sobers (WIN) - Widely regarded as the greatest all-rounder the game has ever seen, Sobers became the first ever player to hit six sixes in an over. Another one voted as one of the five Wisden Cricketers of the Century, it was easy to see why he was regarded so highly. His records of over 8,000 Test match runs as well as 235 Test match wickets, coupled with over 28,000 First Class runs and over 1,000 First Class wickets, show what a great all-rounder he was.
4. Sir Viv Richards (WIN) - Despite not really being classed as an all-rounder, Richards could deliver a ball as well as knocking it out of the park. The third man on this list so far to be named as one of the five Wisden Cricketers of the Century
56 comments Last one added 2 months ago — Leave a Comment
Jon Naylor about 1 year ago
Great piece Barney - really enjoyed it and good stats. Bradman's story is one of sports' great tragedies - the man deserved his century average as he was the best there will ever be.
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Sam Fletcher about 1 year ago
I dont think it was a tradgedy! you have to earn those numbers and their not just given by what you deserved, I mean if you reckon averaging 99 is a tradgedy then you've got some high standards! I think the accolades should go to to the leggie that got him out aqnd denied him the average of 100, it must have been one hell of a googly!
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Sid Barnes about 1 year ago
Lara over Tendulkar?
Not for me.
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Peter B about 1 year ago
I think placing Lara over guys like Viv is absurd.
Lara positively sucked against real pace bowling.
How a batsman with palpable weaknesses can be placed at two is beyond me.
Is scoring big scores the only indication of batting quality? regardless of pitch,bowling,match state etc?
Further by "top" what do you mean?
Good against pace?
spin?
all forms of the game?
consistently good?
good in spurts?
poor and lop sided list...revealing a personal bias more than anything.
Bradman at no.1 is a no brainer...but the rest is poppy cock.
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sarma vishnubhotla 11 months ago
Lara faced McGrath and Gillespie in the 1998-98 WIN-AUS test series and in 6 innings scored 546 runs.
He faced Fraser and Caddick in the 1993-94 WIN-ENG series and scored 798 runs in 8 innings.
In the 2003-04 WIN-ENG series, he faced Harmison, Hoggard, Flintoff and Simon Jones to score 500 runs in 6 innings.
He faced Dominic Cork and Angus Fraser in the 1995 ENG-WIN series to score 765 runs in 9 innings.
We can not belittle this great player, who most of the time in his career batted alone in his team.
And one more thing. The way he batted against Murali was phenomenal. No other batsman faced Murali so well.
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Tony English 7 months ago
You are definitely a Lara hater.
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zam 3 months ago
i think u have no knowledge whatsover about cricket to say lara suck against real pace bowling. in the caribbean viv averge 17 against malcolm marshall 32 against joel garner 26 against patterson and walsh and less than 20 against bishop and tony gray. lara average 92 verses joel garner 64 against malcolm marshall 84 verses patterson and walsh and 45 against curtly ambrose. match viv rubbish record against that
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zam 3 months ago
people have this notion that viv was so good agaist fast bowling. viv scored most of his runs against england who had fast bowlers such as hendrick, old. dilley. jackman. miller. selvey. tony greig, ward. botham and bob willis. if u take bob willis from the bunch all the rest were medium bowlers i dont know what kind of cricketu all does read.next thing he scored a bunch of runs against india when madan lal and mohinder amarnath were used just to take the shine off the ball so that the spinners could bowl and then when they got a real good bowler in kapil dev he never scored much. he scored a few against thompson and lillee in 1976 when he opened the batting because he was failing so much batting in the middle he had 14 straight innings without making a half century and really should of been dropped.
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Kiran Gokarn about 1 year ago
Lara should be placed at no. three for sure........
Sachin's achievements are much greater than Lara's..
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Mano R about 1 year ago
Lara's flair, fleuncy, style was miles ahead of Sachin's. He deserves to be ahead than Sachin but not Viv !!
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Sid B about 1 year ago
Haven't seen much of Sachin have you/
Further Lara was simply a clone of Fredericks,Sobers,Kallicharan etc.
Don't think either you or Balmy Barney here have seen much of them either.
Sachin is infact a complete one off.
As far as allround batting skills are concerned Lara isn't even in the same frame.
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Barney about 1 year ago
oo a bit of handbags there sid! jeez it's just my opinion!
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Tony English 7 months ago
Kiran,
You have, obviously, shown your bias against Lara. How much greater is Sachen's achievement than Lara's? They are both great players, but it is very hard to meaure their performances. The only time you can definitively determine that one person or thing is better than the other is if they are tested against the exact same elements under the exact same circumstances - an impossible task in this situation. All we can do is form our own opinion.
One thing I truly believe: Sachen does not have the mental toughness to stay at the crease and bat for as long as Lara can. I am sure you realize that Lara will bat for days upon days. The guy has demonstrated that on numerous occasions. How many double and triple centuries does Tendulkar have. Think about that.
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zam 3 months ago
how can u place lara at number three? all who say that tendulkar is better than lara obviously are quite short of cricket sense. sachin could only score runs when he gets a start 150 for 2 etc from the time india lose 2 early wickets sachin becomes the third wicket within 5 minutes if u think am lieing check the stats. next thing all the other great players batted at number 3 at some point in thier career sachin never ever once batted at number from the 157 test matches he has played lara battd at 3 and average 60 but i know why sachin never batted there. in ten one day games he has batted at number 3 he scored less than hundred runs and avergae 10 so that pretty much sums it all up he would suck at number 3
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Kiran Gokarn about 1 year ago
no Steve Waugh ??!!
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Vishal about 1 year ago
A realy good briefing... Sachin and Lara can`t be compared...
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Harihar VSG about 1 year ago
Brian, Viv & Sobers are all immeasurably better than Sachin. Ponting in the top 10 is a bad joke. Greame Pollock of South Africa should be in the top 10. Bradman was a great, but I don't think he would have dominated the bowling attack like the great West Indians, Sobers, Richards & Lara.
For those say Sachin is better than Lara, you have no knowledge about the game at all. Lara has murdered the best of pace attack time and again in his career & Sachin simply cannot hold a candle to the genius called Brian.
Hail king Lara & the West Indian cricket kingdom. I am not a West Indian (I'm only an Indian), put all the great cricketers on one team & pick West Indian all-time XI, the mighty West Indians will demolish the World XI with ease.
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Jon Naylor about 1 year ago
Now that is a match I would like to see!
I agree with your opinion on Graeme Pollock - he'd be in my top 10 for sure. He might not have racked up the runs like some others, but a Test average in the 60s over a 27-year career speaks volumes about the man's ability.
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Kiran Gokarn about 1 year ago
havent seen much of Graeme Pollock, but of him a lot...
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Shane B about 1 year ago
You obviously have an extremely limited knowledge about cricket/batting.
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ritesh choure about 1 year ago
sachin deserves nu-1 or nu-2 .. hes better den lara ..
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Salaar Arshad Shamsi about 1 year ago
Anyone can argue but Thanks for Sharing Barney!
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Procter P about 1 year ago
Sachin is a way better batsman than Lara.
Lara himself is the first to say so.
Shouldn't he know better?
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zam 3 months ago
u are so retarded to say sachin is far better than lara.sachin has said the same about lara and dont u think it would make one player look less if they open admits they are better than the other? i guess u are an indian who speak from a passionate standpoint rather than from reality so i wont blame u. u just need to understand the game thats all
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vinodtendulkar shank about 1 year ago
lara is defenetly a better batsman than sachin against spin bowlers..but the technical perfection of sachin is far far ahead of lara..opening position is the most difficult position in international cricket,were there is lot of pressure,bowl and pitch doing a lot ect.a batsman to score 42 centuries in such situations(got out at 90,s for 18 times)actually deserves to be ahead of everybody..comin at no 3 were the bowl is old and the players are tired is not as difficult as opening is considered.even the worlds gretest players have agreed to this eg shane warne,Pollock,Lara,ponting,bretlee,muralitharan,and the god himselfes SIR Don bradman..
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zam 3 months ago
not just a better bastman against spin but better against fast bowling to. people tends to believe if u are not a great hooker u cant play fast bowling but what about when the ball is pitch full length? record shows that 8 out of ten times when sachin gets to the crease when idia lose early wickets sachin gets out in this fashion BOWIND LBW or CAUGHT BEHIND which mean he is seaching for the ball its simple. technique is not really required against an old ball such as a new ball and that is why sachin only score runs when the ball has lost its shine and the opening bowlers are no longer bowling CHECK THE STATS IF U THINK AM LIEING
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Nikhil Nadipelli 2 months ago
Oh yeah Lara could have done that too... but he didnt.. its also about ur brain.... Sachin waited and scored if what you say holds good.
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JAY YAS about 1 year ago
always we can campare sachin and lara.............but lara had a edge in that two. lara is the most stylish batsman in this modern era. few years back ...one australian magazine gone for a survey...in that survey they asked a question..................WHO IS THE MOST DANGEROUS BATSMAN IN THE WORLD.........in that LARA 83%, SACHIN 9%,flintop 4% and etc.............(among all the auszy players and 1st class players .........thats why KING LARA CALLED A ''WIZARD'' & LITTLE MASTER SACHIN CALLED AS ''GENIOUS''..................BUT BOTH LEGENDS ...........
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Danny Elliott about 1 year ago
W.G at number ten?! seriously that is wrong. He is number 2 at least, some argue he is better than the don because of his impact. Without him the sport may not have survived!
and no Victor Trumper?! what a legend!
i feel a great big W.G. article brewing!
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NIVI Jaya about 1 year ago
Whilst Graeme Pollock did have the second highest average to Bradman, he played in one of the best sides of all time . Alongside geniuses such as Mike Proctor, Eddie Barlow and his own brother Peter Pollock. And also he played a very small amount of matches. If you were to put Graeme pollock in the list, with the same logic one would put George Headley- " The Black Bradman" ahead of him
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Mahesh R about 1 year ago
Ponting doesn't deserve to come in the top 10. Neither does the Doctor though he was the game's first superstar. I would rather have any two from Graeme Pollock,George Headley,Waltor Hammond,Len Hutton and Jack Hobbs. Moreover, I think Tendulkar and Richards are better than Lara. Anyway, your list is good.
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Arun Minnasandran about 1 year ago
Your list includes the obvious choices, I think you missed out George Headley and Graeme Pollock.
Bradman at #1 is acceptable but the rest of the order is highly debatable. I would not rate Sachin or Lara above sobers and Viv. You can have any of pollock headley sobers or Viv competing for #2. Gavaskar, Jack Hobbs will follow these guys. Lara and Sachin could be next in Order.
Arun
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Andrew Stevens about 1 year ago
So who is Barney Corkhill ?
Andrew
Georgia
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chintu chintu 12 months ago
chintu sachin is greatest player of all time no one equals himm he is king
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sarma vishnubhotla 11 months ago
My computer rates players on a 0-1,000 scale. Its ratings are given below:
(1) Don Bradman (1000) (2) George Headley (805) (3) JB Hobbs (691) (4) Brian Lara (673) (5) Leonard Hutton (664) (6) RG Pollock (658) (7) Kumar Sangakkara (655) (8) Walter Hammond (655) (9) Francis Jackson (650) and (10) Peter May (647).
vsssarma@gmail.com
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TinJu Jishnu 10 months ago
1.sunil gavaskar- as an opener , he faced ever greatest fast bowlers lik lillee,hadly,akram,imran,holding...and made uncomparable records
2.brian lara-he was the team.
3.sachin tendulkar-the biggest superstar of the game
4.viv richards
5.bradman
6.sobers
dont put names lik ponting, steve waugh, sangakara...etc coz this is a list of batsmen!
wht about mhd.azharudin, javed miandad, mik atherton, aravinda desilva
inzamam and rahul dravid r much better than ponting
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Tony English 7 months ago
Guys, it is the hardest thing pick the greates batsman ever. I have noticed, though, that Lara is being dissed big time. To be considered the greatest ever, you have to display an ability to stay at the crease and bat for tremendously long time. Which modern day batsman has displayed that quality as handsomely as Brian Lara? Sachen is great, but with all his achievements, he is just a tot behind Lara. Don't be biased. I know that Lara is hard to root for, but give the guy his dues. he deserves it.
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Rahul Ray 6 months ago
To be part of the greatest ever batsmen list, the major factors to be considered are the amount of runs he scored, his average, his consistency, class, elegance, ability to take over the opponents at the most difficult situations, his commitment towards the game, ability to take immense pressure and perform, and last but not the least, how much his batsmanship has an impact upon the common people, or rather say, whether he can drag those people, who are not so much interested, into the ground to enjoy his performance. By giving equal weightages to all these parameters, one just cannot help putting Sachin ahead of Brian. Just think about the span of Sachin's career and the amount of pressure he has to take on each day he steps into the 22 yards to take guard and still he's been able to add a new dimension to the role of ultimate batsmanship. Just consider his records. Those numbers seem to be magical !! 42 ODI tons and 41 Test tons, above 16000 runs in ODIs and add to that another 12000+ runs in Tests with a blistering average and amazing strike rates !! Again, please care to consider his commitment towards the game, truely, he is unquestionably, the perfect ambassador for the game of Cricket. Almost all the great bowlers of modern era have rated him as their best counterparts. Brian is without doubt, the most elegant left-hander I've seen. But, you just cannot but put Sachin ahead of Brian considering all the factors stated above. Sachin truely deserves it guys. He does.
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zam 3 months ago
listen tendulkar numbers are not magical. this is how u prove a great one day batsman. when u can score runs batting anywhere in the order tendulkar has been rubbish as a middle order batsman in odi averaging less than 30 and taking 79 matches to make a hundred which goes to show he can only score runs and centuries when he open the batting because he has a full 50 overs to blast and the field retrictions. when u bat in the middle it more dificult to score since the field is spread and thats what lara have over him the abilty to find gaps when the field is spread of all 42 centuties tendulkar has how come he never scored one against AMBROSE. WASIM AKRAM. WALSH. and ALLAN DONALD. who were better fast bowlers than these garbage they have going around now. he averge less about 25 against those bowlers
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zam 3 months ago
the thimg is tendulkar took 16 more innings than lara to break his record and if u have played over 400 one day games opened the batting over 300 times why cant u have 16000 runs? to make it worse the bowling is so easy to score runs against now. when it was good sachin struggles to make runs in one day cricket, if sachin had played for west indies his career would of been over long time ago cause he would not of have good opening batsmen to lay a platform such as 175 for 2 so he could come in and bat when the ball is old and the bowlers tired. sachin has been playing for 20 years now and never ever once scored 500 hundred runs in a test series, lara has done it 7 times. sachin never scored a century in each innings of a test, lara has done it, sachin has never scored a triple, lara did it twice and even took it a step further and scored a quadruple, sachin has 4 double centuries lara has 9 and 3 were scored against australia not with any and any bowlers WARNE MCGRATH GILLESPIE LEE MCDERMOTT MACGILL
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zam 3 months ago
just imagin sachin tendulkar has batted in 6 inings verses bangladesh scoring 3 centuries with one being a double 248 not out and batted in 14 innings verses zimbabwe scoring 3 centuries as well with one being a double 201 not out. yet still when he played against teams like south africa and pakistan who have much much much better bowlers he seems to leave his bat at home, in 27 innings against pakistan he scored just 2 centuries and in 36 innings verses south africa he has scored just 3 centuries not to mention his average of 35 against them. BRIAN LARA average 50 against both teams with 8 centuries combined batting in less innings. that is what u called a champion player.
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Nishant Shah 2 months ago
Rahul Dravid is also one of the Greats !!.
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wayne challenger 2 months ago
well raul dravid is a top player without a doubt. he along with laxman are the 2 best pressure players in the team and now sehwag is stepping up to that level in scoring runs when india needs them the most.
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Nikhil Nadipelli 2 months ago
Your opinion dude. and its a great team. I would just go with Sachin ahead of Lara. My opinion.
Thats all.
Sachin was der before Lara arrived. And he is still der. And still ruling. Its says it all. Goodluck.
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wayne challenger 2 months ago
well sachin was there before lara but lara past him. if you had to send a batsman to bat under pressure situations i know for a fact you would never send sachin tendulkar
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wayne challenger 2 months ago
i know sachin is a great player but he lacked the one real essential thing about true greatness. the abilty to handle pressure. and how could u go for sachin ahead of lara? lara has turn the cricket world upside down, u need an example? what brian lara did in 1994 it was never witnessed in no kind of sport before, not even don bradman took it to that level.
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Nikhil Nadipelli 2 months ago
I am sorry but cannot agree with you. You just said that Sachin did not know how to handle pressure. Dude, he was the guy who handled pressure the best possible way. You ask anyone and you will get the same answer.
Sachin faces pressure from more than half a billion people , more than a hundred times greater pressure than Lara ever had. Its a fact. You can ask Lara if you can that is.
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Gursharan Singh 2 months ago
This discussion is realy getiing hot. This is what I say about it:-
Both Lara and Sachin are legends. There are a lot of Indian guys here who have irrationally placed Sachin ahead of Lara while one Mr Zam and a couple of other guys seem to be heavily biased against Sachin. The fact is that both of them have their strengths and weaknesses when pitted against each other. While Lara surely had a strong mental frame which enabled him to play very verryyy long innings even against Aussies, South Africans and other good bowling attacks, but he certainly wasnt as consistent as Sachin. I dont mean that Sachin never had slumps. But he would normally recover quick and was definitly more consistent. Lara was better in handling pressure than Sachin. But there are lot of guys here who have put too much stress on the fact that Sachin never handled pressure well and that he normally got it easy having come to bat at 150 for 2.
This is entirely wrong. There are numerous instances where Sachin handled pressure and actualy delivered and scored runs against runs against Akrams, Donalds etc. I will cite few of them:
1) In 1998 Sharjah, Sachin single handedly won India not just a match but the entire tri-series against Aus and NZ. (143 in in last league and 134 in final, both times India chased totals around 270 which was a very good score in those times)
2) 1997 test match against SA - SA score 500+ and India lost top 3 batsmen very quick. The master came out and scored 169 and helped India avoid follow-on. SA bowling attack consisted of Donald (in his prime years) and Shaun Pollock. However India lost (cant blame Sachin for that, can you? Lara too couldnt avoid West Indies getting whitewashed 3-0 by Srilanka in spite of scoring 689 runs in six innings.)
3) 98 against Pakistan off 75 balls in 2003 world-cup. You dont get a more intense atmosphere than a India-Pak clash in World cup. Pak had Akhtar, Akram and Waqar. It turned out to be the last outings for both Akram and Waqar.
4) 118 n.o. against Aus in 2007-08 VB series Final in Australia. Helped India chase 240 on a pitch which had assistance for bowlers.
I have cited 1) and 3) for those who say Sachin doesnt score in important matches. And 2) and 3) is for Zam who says Sachin hasnt done well against AKRAM, DONALD etc.
Actualy there are numerous number of such brillieant innings by Sachin. I cant write about all of them.
There is another point I would like to counter. Zam and few others say that Sachin gets it easy because he comes to bat at situation that reads something like 150 for 2. While that had been the case in last 2-3 years because of extremely good starts given very frequently by Gambhirs, Sehwags etc. But that wassnt so in mid and late 90s. Back then, India too had a very average batting line-up like West Indies. Azharruddin and jadeja were average and inconsisten while Dravid and Ganguly were just rookies. It was always left to one man - Sachin Tendulkar. And that is why people used to switch off their Televisions once Sachin would get out. So, like West Indies, Indian batting too was one-man army. While Lara had to carry expectations of his team and 1000s of carribean fans, Sachin had to carry expectations of his team and half-billion fans (this continued until Ganguly, Dravid and Laxman took more responsiblities and Sehwag and Yuvraj happenned to India).
I believe Lara is quite a better test batsman than Sachin. Surely Sachin had never even been close to some of Lara's feats like 501 n.o in first-class, 400 n.o and 375 in test cricket. But Sachin is way ahead of Lara in ODIs. I dont think it is Sachin's fault that Lara couldnt play 400+ games. I mean, if someone has played over 400 ODIs alongwith 150+ tests, that is in itself an incredible achievement, leave aside what that person has done. And if someone has scored 16000+ at an average of 44 and strike rate of 86, that is extraordinary. Add to that 150+ wickets as well !! Lara was not very consistent in ODIs as well. And if Lara couldnt play international cricket for 20 years, Sachin isnt to be blamed for. And it is too much presuming too much that Lara would have also scored 16000+ had he played 400+ ODIs. Sachin's feats in ODIs cannot be compared with anyone.
All in all, Lara better than Sachin in test matches. But Sachin miles ahead of Lara in ODIs due to which I rank Tendulkar a notch better in overall rankings
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wayne challenger 2 months ago
well let me rebut what you just said with the most telling facts that ever exist. if sachin has batted in 261 innings and have 42 centuries and 53 half centuries and lara batted in 232 innings and scored 34 centuries and 48 half centuries how much more consistent sachin could of been? for the record let me explain this to you, there are 9 test series sachin has played that involved 2 test matches or more when he average less than 30. lara only has 5, pakistan and south africa nowmally makes up 2 of the 3 best attacks in world cricktet with australia been the other when they had the big guns of MCGRATH, WARNE, GILLESPIE and MCGILL, now the attack is down to garbage with only BRETT LEE been somthing of real threat and because he would have to bowl more overs than normal he cant bowl express pace for his opening overs like he would normally do so in all reality australia bowling is very average presently. now unto what you said about sachin dilivering in pressure situations. he did it once against wasim akram, 136 at chennia 1999, he came to bat when the score was 5 for 2, he did it once against allan donald, 169 in 1997 he came to bat when the score was 25 for 3, he did it once verses glenn mcgrath, 116 in australia 1999, he came to bat when the score was 11 for 2, he did it once against vaas and muralitharan 139 he came to when the score was 9 for2. and besides his 119 at old trafford in 1990 when he came to bat when the score was 109 for 4 and help save the test match for india and his 114 at perth in 1992 could you tell me when did sachin tendulkar ever prove him self to be a true test batsman? i dont think you could. then you make mention of sachin tendulkar not having a greats around him in the ninties? haha that made me laugh, SHASTRI, VENSARKAR, AZHARUDDIN, SIDHU, VINOD KAMBLI, that was the early ninties, the second half is GANGULY, DRAVID, LAXMAN, SEHWAG, and GAMBIR. of all the great players in history sachin tendulkar has had the greatest supporting cast ever! and you want me to prove that to you? of sachin 42 test centuries, 5 were scored when he was given starts of well over 200 runs for 2 wickets with the highest been 281 for 2, 6 were scored when he got starts between 150 and 200 runs for 2 wickets with the highest been 185 for 2, 11 were scored when he got starts between 100 and 150 runs for 2 wickets with the highest been 149 for 2, and 3 were scored when he got starts betweens 80 and 100 runs for 2 wickets with the highest been 99 for 2, the rest were scored when he got starts of like 40 odd and 50 odd for 2 and that is when he batted at number 4, now unto what you said about tendulkar been a better one day player than lara and you know what that is NOT TRUE? tendulkar could only score runs when he either open the batting or he encounter week bowling when he bat in the middle, in 10 matches at number 3 sachin has just over 90 runs with an average of 10 and a strike rate of 48. when he batted at number 4 his 4 centuries were scored against kenya and west indies rubbish bowling. lara could bat anywhere in the order in 52 matches he opened he scored 5 centuries and averaged 45 and they were not just any and any centuries, they were scored against, WASIM, WAQAR, and ALLAN DONALD, when lara batted at 3 he was still good enough to score 12 centuries, well if tendulakar is miles ahead then why did lara scored from 1000 to 7000 thousand runs faster than sachin? that is because if you level the playing field and let both bat early sachin could never ever score more runs than lara. he only beat lara from 7000 to 10000 because lara started batting down in the lower order, sachin has opened the batting over 300 times and had lara done the same i could assure you lara would have more runs and more centuries, sachin has murderd weak bolwlers in the game and you want me to prove that to you? i am going to list the 4 best fast bowlers who would have bowled to sachin and lara during their careers and this is what they did SACHIN verses DONALD, 26 innings, 587 runs, average 22.57, 0 century, SACHIN verses AKRAM 25 innings, 769 runs, average 36.61, 0 century, SACHIN verses WAQAR YOUNIS, 22 innngs, 791 runs, average 35.95, 2 centuries, SACHIN verses MCGRATH 23 innings, 829 runs, average 36.04, 2 centuries. that is what sachin did against those bowlers and he never did well against ambrose and walsh either but since lara didnt have to face them in international cricket it wont be fair to sachin if i name them, NOW this is what lara did against those same bowlers, LARA verses DONALD 16 innings, 754 runs, average 53.85, 2 centuries, LARA verses AKRAM 33 innings, 1143 runs, average 40.82, 3 centuries, LARA verses WAQAR YOUNIS 30 innings, 1064 runs, average 38, 3 centuries, LARA verses MCGRATH 24 innings, 1012 runs, average 46, 2 centuries. so as you can see lara has been far better against quality bowlers, it is amazing to see how sachin tendulkar could score 4 CENTURIES in 9 INNINGS verses KENYA and score 4 in 34 innings verses ZIMBABWE but in 51 INNINGS combined between WASIM AKRAM and ALLAN DONALD he couldnt score ONE, am waiting for you to rebut this article, haha.
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wayne challenger 2 months ago
i always try to explain to people is not the numbers you have but is how and who they were built against. if you exclude bangladesh and zimbabwe from test cricket sachin tendulkar average falls from 54 to 51, while lara still remains at 52 even if u remove bangladesh and zimabawe, i told you if sachin had played for west indies his career would of been over before it started because dont think you could sit back and rely for starts, that is not how it works in west indies team, at an average lara goes out to bat with the score on 12 for 2 during his career, now tell me who other batsman could of put up with those kind of crappy starts and be as successful as him? NONE! for lara whole career he always had a bunch of rubbish players around him for every team he played for, weather it is WEST INDIES, TRINIDAD or WARWICSHIRE but in spite of all that he smashed every major batting record in cricket. 1994 at warwickshire is something that county cricket never witness before or after and it will never ever happen again in our lifetimes. lara has scored a bunch of runs for trinidad against MARSHALL, GARBER, AMBROSE, PATTERSON, WALSH. and the list goes on and on with a bunch of rubbish players around him. i could never forget when india toured the west indies in 1989 they played a game against the under 23 in whch lara was 19 years old at the time, he scored 185 against KAPIL DEV and their so called big spinner NAHENDRA HIRWANI both were smashed to all parts of the ground when no one else in the team could manage 40 runs good. that was the greatness that lara had. you could give him 10 PEBBLES to play with and bring the best bowlers you have, the story will still read the same , it could be 2 runs for 4 wickets, 0 runs for 2 wickets, lara could not only step up and make big runs but you will be fully entertained.
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wayne challenger 2 months ago
hahahaaha MR SIGNH what did you say only last 2 or 3 years sachin started getting starts like that? thats the biggest joke i have heard for the year hahaha, well do your self one favour, go and check all of sachin centuries for me before dravid and ganguly and tell me if most og them were not when he was given perfect starts as i told you before. some well over 200 for 2, you seems to forget VINOD KAMBLI use to bat at number 3 who many people thought were better than tendulkar. you need to get your facts straight brother. if sachin had 12 centuries before dravid and ganguly came he was presented with pefect starts with about 9 of them.
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Gursharan Singh 2 months ago
well wayne, I cant pull out such vast amount of stats as you have done to vindicate lara's superiority over sachin.
you see, we all have our own opinions. but unfortunately, in this thread, a lot of guys have strong alignments towards their respective favorite players that they completely refuse to acknowledge the achievements of others in this best 10 batsmen ever list.
First, you tell me how do you define 'pressure'? Is it something that happens only when the score reads 20 for 2. Opening the batting is in itself a pressure (with billions expecting from you). I agree that Lara had to step in a lot of times when the score read 10 for 2. Back in mid and late 90s, Sachin used to bat at situations when score read 0 for 0. But you know what, it would quickly get down to 30 for 2 in quick time with a Sidhu and/or someone else back in dressing room with Sachin given the tough job to do the repairing work. Wayne, your STATISTIC knowledge cant account for that.
You have counted some of the innings that he played under pressure. And you challenged me to count another one. I believe what he did in Sharjah against Aussies in 1998 was unwitnessed in ODI cricket before. First he scored 143 in last league match to make sure India reach final. And then he scored 134 in the final to have it won. The second highest scorer in these two matches for India was Azharrudin who scored 57 in final. No one else scored even a half-century in comparison to sachin's 143 and 134. And the 98 off 75 balls against Pak in 2003 World Cup came in probably the most intense atmospheres (You dont seem Indian to me. So you dont know what its like when India play Pak in a WC match).
The matter of the fact is that Sachin had to make sure that Indian score dosnt read 20 for 2, and subsequently dont feel 'pressure'. This in itself is a pressure, isnt it? And if you realy say that that best batsman is the one who comes out to bat at 10 for 2 and then gets his team out of trouble, then I guess ANDY FLOWER is probably the best ever batsman !!
I am certain Sachin has played many such great innings (ohh one more comes to my mind - 118 n.o against Aus in VB series final 2008 chasing 240. Now it isnt Sachin's fault that he came to bat at 0 for 0 instead of 20 for 2. Had he got out for 0, it might have then read 20 for 2. Hope you get my point, Wayne). I cant list all of them here coz the list is too long.
The reason why I say Sachin is more consistent is that he would normally not suffer from wide fluctuations in his form as Lara did. I mean there would be this season where Lara would manage just 80 odd runs from 3 test matches against a average sri-lanka bowling attack. And in the next series against mighty Aussies, he would end up scoring 700 runs in six innings at an avg of 100+ !! Of course, this is based on my observations, I dont have stats to prove this.
I have already acknowledged that Sachin had the luxury of batting in easy situations ever since Yuvraj, Sehwag, Gambhir happened to India. But this is so only in last 5-6 years. Back in mid and late 90s, Azharrudin, Sidhu and Jadeja were in the twilight of their careers while Ganguly and Dravid were just rookies. And if you can call Kambli and Sidhu great players, then so are Richie Richardson, Carl Hooper, Serwin Campbell, Ramnaresh Sarwan, Chris Gayle (all Lara's contemporaries). And perhaps, Chanderpaul can count himself as one of the greatest ever !!
And if Sachin has done well against Bangs or Zimbabwe, he surely got to get the credits for that. Lara scored one of the fastest ODI hundreds against Bangs, do we say he dosnt get credit for that.
What about 20-20 cricket. Lara had a brief stint in ICL. And he struggled there big time. On the other hand, Sachin's having a ball in IPL-II which is definitley more competitive than ICL.
I am not anti-Lara. I myself believe that he was a better batsman than Sachin in test cricket. And I say this not on the basis of some statistics, but coz I realy believe he was a complete test batsman which Sachin isnt on account of his inablity to play very very long innings in crunch situations. But in ODI, surely Sachin all the way.
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wayne challenger 2 months ago
well let me first tell you how i define pressure. your team maybe batting first and lose early wickets, etc 10 for 2, NOW the opening bowlers still bowling, the wicket is still fresh and you have 3 slips and a gully wating for you. now you could come to the crease with the score 100 for 2 and you chasing 600 that is still pressure because you are chasing a huge total, besides sachin 169 verses south africa when they were chasing over 500 could you tell me ONE MORE inning that sachin tendulkar has played well and come through for india when they were chasing big runs? where was sachin in 2001 when poor india backs were against the wall in the second test match verses australia? he could only score 10 in both innings while laxman and dravid had to pull india out of big trouble, then you went on to ask if sidhu and kambli are great players, well they dont have to be great players to give sachin those kind of starts he got, you mentioned sachin only got those starts last 5 or 6 years, well let me tell you this is since in the early ninties sachin use to get those starts, am not guessing am telling you that for a fact, didnt you see those kind of starts i told you sachin got in above article? a lot of them were before dravid, ganguly, laxman, sehwag and gambir came along. kambli has a test average of 54, sidhu has one of almost 45, so its quite obvious they use to score runs, sachin has opened the batting and score runs against a lot of crappy bolwing, i did mention to you what he did against some of the quality fast bowlers to have bowled at him, he was pretty ordinary verses ambrose and walsh as well but as i said before it wouldnt be fair to him because lara didnt play against them, all those scores you mentioned sachin made in 1998 verses australia, KASPROWITZ, MOODY, ROBERTSON, LEAHMAN, and WARNE, now you take WARNE from that attack the rest in my opinion is not fit to play international cricket, sachin is a completely different batsman when glenn mcgrath and his strong attack play for australia, its like once the attck is good tendulkar is bound to fail, lara has never played against a weak australian attack and every time he play against them most times he diliver with having nobody at the other end, in test cricket lara batted 58 innings verses australia and only on one occasion did he ever meet a 100 runs on the bored, about 40 times he meet less than 20, that is the kind of nonesense lara had to put up with, then you talk about consistency with tendulkar but you dont know how much times in sachin career he has hit rock bottom, i told you there are 9 series that tendulkar has played when he average less than 30 for the series, lara only has 5, you what the difference is between lara and sachin? because of the standard lara set like 400, 375, 277 and those kind of innings when lara score 60 or even 75 its almost like he failed because of the huge scores we are accustom to hear, tendulkar on the other hand has never reach those kind of heights so even if he score 50 it would seem like he score runs thats what happen, then you mention andy flower might be the best batsman of all time if thats the case with losing early wickets, lara comes to the crease an average 12 for 2, NOW tell me how much worse than 12 for 2 it could get? it cannot really get worst than that.andy flower was a good player but its not like the world is expecting wonders from him, weather west indies in doing well or not lara is always expected to score runs and not just runs BIG RUNS, of all the openers ara played with, HAYNES, SIMMONS, WILLIAMS, CAMBBELL, GAYLE, and DEVON SMITH, in 323 innings combined they could only score 9871 runs with an average of 30.56, when lara played with them, that is the kind of garbage lara had to put up with through out his whole career, LARA only played 3 series with HAYNES the first one in australia in 1993 haynes only could score 123 runs in 8 innings while lara had to step up big for the team as a rookie player and score 466 runs from 8 innings average 58.25 with a century 277 and 3 half centuries, the second series in the carribean verses pakistan haynes did very well scoring over 400 runs average over 100 with 2 centuries, lara did okay in that series as well scoring over 216 runs in 5 innings and average 43, the last series lara played with haynes lara agian had to step up and score big. 798 runs from 8 innings, average 99.75, while haynes again failed scoring just about 200 runs from 7 innings and average less than 30 and all of this was happening when lara was still a junior player in the team. tomake it even worst for him when he batted at number 3 he never ever ever had good openers, WILLIAMS, CAMPBELL, SIMMONDS, were all failures, when he batted at number 3 he got to the crease an average 10 for 1 and still manage this, 66 innings, 3749 runs, average 60.46, with 9 centuries, his 2 world records of 375 and 400 were scored when he batted at number 3 NOW TELL ME WHICH OTHER BATSMAN YOU THINK COULD OF PUT UP WITH THAT SORT OR RUBBISH STARTS AND STILL BE SO SUCCESFUL? NOT ONE! then you mentioned lara scoring a fast century verses bangladesh which i am well aware of but the point am trying to make to you lara could score runs against every and any kind of bowling attack but sachin CANT, it doesnt matter if lara is playing against DONALD, WASIM, WAQUAR, MCGRATH or BANGLADESH it makes no difference, lara was an excellent one day opening batsman early in his career, he started batting at number 3 and was still as successful and he did reasonably well down the order even if he never had much overs to play with, in 2007 in the world cup sachin was batting at number 4, he came in agaisnt sri lanka and he knew he had to play a big inning for his country to see them through, what sachin did? he scored 0, even if he had made runs and the team lost nobody would of blame him, the game before verses bermuda he played all kind of shots but when it was required most in the big moment he couldnt diliver but i know why, MALINGA, VASS, MURALI, sachin is not known to making runs against those kind of quality attacks too often, you talk about the series verses australia well australia bowling is as weak as new zealand at the moment, everybody could score runs against them so an inning verses australia now wont be the same as it was when the big guns MCGRATH, GILLESPIE, and WARNE was around at the same time. i know sachin is a top player and i love to see him bat but there is no which way on this planet i would ever think anyone is better than lara, not really because of the big numbers lara put up but is who he built them against and the kind of situations which most times were not in favour of him.
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Gursharan Singh 2 months ago
well mate, I have already admitted to the fact that lara is a better test match player simply because of his better record against good teams and also coz of his ability to play long innings in crunch situations..
I think you have made too much of tendulkar's failure in the calcutta test against Aus in 2001...I can again count on the important innings that Sachin has played in important times like i did in my previous comment...but there is no point in that..Lara too had many failures like that..the fact is that both these great players have such vast career spans that we cant brainstorm on few of their success or failures.
n i tell you Andy Flower , as long as I remember, had to face far more troubled situations than Larahad to. Surely Zimababwe were no better than West Indies, you know that given the kind of knowledge you have about the game
Against Murali, Vaas n Malinga -
137 in 1996 WC league match, 65 in semi-final where no-one else managed even 20.
105 test match Dec 2005, 35th century
107 Tri series final, 1998 in Colombo (featuring NZ as third team)
110 odd n.o. Natwest Series, England 2002
143 test match Colombo, 1997
100 odd Aiwa Cup 1999
There must be few more. I dont think murali n vaas hav missed too many matches in their careers though Malinga undoubtedly has missed many. I have mentioned these innings just to counter your view on Sachin's performance against srilankan attack. No doubt Sachin must have had many failures against these bowlers but I felt you kind of exaggerated his failures.
Talking about scoring in chasing big totals, Sachin played master innings against England quite recently when India chased 387 last year in November on a 5th day track that had lot of assistance for bowlers.
Wayne, I dont think we can ever settle on this Lara V/S Sachin :) Both these legends have achieved so much that we are not even good enough to talk about what they did n what they didn't.. coz our capacity to retain statistics is not even 0.1% of what these two have done. We are always gonna miss out or exaggerate on their failures and achievements. All I can say is that we both are lucky enough to hav the chance to see them play on televisions and discuss them.
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wayne challenger 2 months ago
well mr singh i know you admitted lara is a better test player but you went on to say sachin is miles ahead in one day cricket and i know that is not true, one day cricket is a very funny version where sometimes batsmen dont get a fair chance, i will give you an example, DEAN JONES and MICHEAL BEAVAN, those 2 players are just as good as lara and tendulkar in one day cricket but their numbers will never show for it, lara and tendulkar played different roles in their teams because for most of thier careers they batted in the top 4, openers and number 3 are the ones who are really expected to score centuries, from number 4 go back responsibilty is to make a 50 or a 40 unless the team lose early wickets in the first 10 overs and that dont happen very often, all the big name one day players are batsman who have either open of bat at number 3 for most their careers , HAYNES, TENDULKAR, MARK WAUGH, GANGULY, PONTING, LARA , VIV RICHARDS, just to name a few but those 2 players would be equally as good as all the above mentioned just that their roles were different. then you stated that lara did well against murali well in test cricket this is what sachin record read, 15 innings 645 runs, average 43, with 2 centuries, this is what LARA record read 14 innings, 1125 runs, average 86.53, with 5 centuries in which 2 were doubles, 221 and 209, murali also stated of all the batsmen he has bowled at the only one he has no CLUE when bowling is brian lara because his footworks and hands cant be match by any which is the truth, lara had awesome footworks and a great pair of hands not even if you put ALL players around the bat to field he would out batpad, he had very soft hands and his abilty to pick the length of the ball that quickly made him the best player of spin bowling ever, not just this generation. then you made the point about andy flower and you could be right, for he did play with a bunch of rubbish players as well but all i was saying if lara get to the crease on an average 12 for 2 it cant get much worse than that, plus flower never had to battle with the likes of glenn mcgrath and his australians, he only played one test match verses australia, and it is not just the test in india in 2001 where sachin has messed up for he did it quite a few times, i could recall one right in the west indies in 1997 when india need 120 to win a test mach 2 early wickets fall and sachin scored 4, there was one in zimbadwe sometime in the ninties, there was one verses pakistan i think in 2004 where shoib aktar clean bowled him first ball in the first innings for a duck and the second innings he failed again however i think it was a mix up run out so i wont hold him accountable for that, besides those innings there are countless times sachin has come to the crease when india lose early wickets and failed, am not saying lara didnt do the same but as you said lara did prove himself in tuff situations very very often, in reference to the game you made against england and the 387 they chased well sachin was given the perfect start as usual of 141 for 2 and in my opinion sehwag was the one who took that match out of england hands with a blistering 83 before close of play, but sachin did play a splendid innings so i would give him credit for it then he donated the innings to the disaster that took place in mumbia which even made the innings more special, in saying all od that i would be the first person in the world to tell you that SACHIN TENDULKAR IS THE BEST PLAYER I HAVE SEEN TO PLAY IN THE ARC, from extra cover right around to mid on there is nobody who could play better than tendulkar, the guy is a genius with a straight bat, so dont think i wouldnt praise tendulkar when i have to, when he is flowing he is a precious sight to watch, many people have said that he should retire but honestly i dont want him to because that would mean the last of the two players who could capture anyone imagination would be gone, lara and sachin created more buzz around a cricket ground than everybody else and as good as ponting is he lack the kind of star quality both players have, and besides that ponting dont have THE CLASS that both sachin and lara possesed, he is very far from it if you ask me the question, so i dont think sachin should retire because to be truthful since lara left sachin is the only one who i look forward to see.
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wayne challenger 2 months ago
and mr singh you are right. numbers will never be able to tell how great both lara and sachin and are and we were very privalege to have both of them during our time, maybe i said a lot of things to keep the debate going but in my heart of hearts i know how great sachin tendulkar is, whenever he playes against the west indies i never want him to out because i love to see entertainment that is what i live for, my dad is a huge supporter of sachin because he thinks sachin is very humble compare to lara and i think so too, sachin has a sort of humility to him which most big sportsmen dont have, lara on the other hand carried himself very well on the field, he never ever once stood his ground when he knew he was out, once he knew that he walked and never waited for the umpires decision.
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