Welcome to Tribe Talk, a season-long look at the trials and tribulations of the Cleveland Indians from the views of the loyal Tribe fans here on Bleacher Report.
I would like to thank my fellow Indians community leader, Nino Colla, and newcomer to Tribe Talk, Samantha Bunten. This discussion is not just meant for the included Indians fans. Please feel free to comment on any of the questions or any of our answers below.
This week we detail the Indians offensive struggles and what moves could be done with the immediate roster. Also, of note is the Indians final trip to Yankee stadium. There have been many memories there, and we chose some of our favorites.
Without further ado, let's talk Tribe!
Another week has passed and the Indians are still struggling to score runs. Eric Wedge has now resorted to toying with the lineup to try and jump-start the team. What would be your batting lineup as of right now with Hafner slumping?
Samantha Bunten: I've worked out a good number of hypothetical lineups in my head already this spring, but at this point I can't help but wonder if maybe the best solution to the problem is just to leave things alone for now. Messing with the order doesn't seem to be helping. The shakeup hasn't ignited the team's flailing offense, and now I might even venture that the inconsistency is making this team's already fragile ability to execute even shakier.
Tne exception: I would put Hafner behind Martinez. Even though Pronk is struggling, I still say he is a better choice to follow Victor than Peralta if we don’t want opponents taking the bat out of Martinez’ hands. As an opposing pitcher, I’m likely to walk Martinez and look for a double play ball from Peralta . With Hafner behind Martinez, I don’t think it’s that simple. Sure, Hafner is struggling, but if he gets ahold of something, Victor will be one more runner on base who will score. I think Martinez will see more hittable pitches with Hafner following him, and as our best hitter, we don’t ever want to deny Victor the opportunity to bat.
Nino Colla: I've been very critical about the lineup Wedge has put out, but I support him making changes.
CF- Grady Sizemore
RF- David Dellucci
1B- Ryan Garko
C- Victor Martinez
DH- Travis Hafner
SS- Jhonny Peralta
RF- Franklin Gutierrez
2B- Asdrubal Cabrera
3B- Casey Blake
A simple flip flop of Hafner and Garko, and I don't mind that Garko is struggling. In my mind, your most clutch hitter of your three best bats should hit clean up, that is Victor Martinez. Ideally I'd love to hit Ryan Garko third, Hafner cleanup, and Martinez fifth, but that isn't possible the way Hafner and Martinez have been hitting. I think giving Garko that protection would let him bust out, and also put Hafner back on top in terms of walking a lot. I moved Casey back to the nine-hole because that is where he is most effective, and I concerned Gutierrez up at two, but Dellucci has done a good job. My main beef is with the one Wedge is using is Dellucci hitting third, that isn't acceptable in my eyes.
Michael Taylor: I like Gutierrez, but not batting second as he has over the weekend. He does not work counts and strikes out way too much for a two hitter. He is better served around seven or eight right now. Many people don't like it, but I still say Dellucci hits second. His career .344 OBP is not the greatest, but with what the Indians have to work with right now, he is one of the few hitting the ball and can move Grady along. Third, I have always like putting your best hitter there who can drive in runs. Victor is by far the most complete hitter on the team and I like him there. Cleanup is tough right now with the main power sources struggling, but to split Victor and Hafner up I put Garko fourth and Hafner fifth. This leaves inconsistent Jhonny, average yet clutch Blake, and finally, the youngsters who obviously need more time, Gutierrez and Cabrera at the bottom.
1. Grady Sizemore
2. David Dellucci
3. Victor Martinez
4. Ryan Garko
5. Travis Hafner
6. Jhonny Peralta
7. Casey Blake
8. Franklin Gutierrez
9. Asdrubal Cabrera
The Indians now sit at 14-17, but remain somehow only 2.5 games out of first place. How reassuring is this as a fan to think, that at any time if the Indians finally get on a roll, that first place is still right there for the taking?
Samantha Bunten: As a Cleveland fan you have to be an optimist, so I feel pretty good about where we're sitting right now. We’ve played badly, but have also gotten lucky, as everyone in the central is playing bad baseball. Chicago looks to be on their way out already. We fully expected to be battling it out with Detroit, even if we didn’t expect either team to be doing it to keep ourselves out of the AL Central cellar. Right now I think Minnesota is my biggest concern. I think we need to steel ourselves for a 3-team race.
At this point I'm not too worried. I look at it this way: At this time last year, people laughed at me when I said the Tribe would win the division. The only reason we appear to be any worse off now is that expectations are higher this year. This group is a second half team. The fact that the rest of the central is also struggling just makes it that much easier for us to atone later for our characteristically slow start.
Nino Colla: It is reassuring but I hate thinking like that. The Twins are the only team above .500 in the so-called "Best Division in the American League." The Tigers seemed to get on a role, but as we all figured (or at least I did), their offense can't carry them the whole year. They need pitching and they don't have it. Like I said last time, the biggest disappointment is the fact that there hasn't been more ground gained while they are struggling. Plus we play the majority of our home games early in the year.
Michael Taylor: I guess it is, but you don't want to look back at the end of the season and know you past up such a great opportunity as they have had to take the division. These are the things that come back to bite you later. Still, knowing that the Indians are still where they is reassuring and that IF they catch fire, they will most likely be in first place within a week. It also says a lot about how far the rest of the division has fallen. This was widely regarded as one of the best, if not the best division in baseball coming into 2008.
The Indians will visit Yankee stadium for the final time this week. There is a lot of storied history between the Indians and Yankees there. Do you have a favorite moment of an Indians game in Yankee stadium?
Samantha Bunten: Game 2 of the ALDS in 1997: A matchup of the young, unproven Jaret Wright vs. the solid Andy Pettite looked like trouble for the Tribe, and already down 1-0, we needed the win to avoid going back to the Jake for game 3 facing elimination. Despite being down 3-0 in the 1st, the Tribe rallied back with a 5-run, 2out 4th. Matt Williams tagged one in the 5th to add 2 insurance runs. The Tribe hung on to win 7-5 and return to Cleveland with the series tied 1-1. My heart stopped several times that day, but it is still one of my favorite Tribe moments in the Bronx.
Nino Colla: Yes, and it was the game they dismantled the Yankees by scoring 22 runs. I enjoyed that one the most because I think just about everyone hit a home run or knocked in a run. I think I displayed the picture of the scoreboard everywhere I could online. It not only is one of the greatest moments at Yankees Stadium, but in the history of baseball, just because it was the Yankees of course. It is also the only one I really remember really vividly other than Joe Borowski nailing the door on Game 4 of ALDS. But everyone would say that.
Michael Taylor: As a Manny Ramirez fan, I remember back to his second big-league start in 1993. There was a huge group of Ramirez supporters in the left-field seats going crazy for him, as this was Ramirez' homecoming as a NY native. He went 3-4 and hit two home runs for his local supporters that night and has never looked back.
Another would be Jim Abbot's no-hitter against the Indians, even though it was against us, it was amazing to watch the one-armed pitcher dominate as he did.
My favorite though has to be the Indians clinch the ALCS in Yankee stadium last season. It was great to do it on their turf and watch the Yankee fans with their sad looks on their faces. Like they haven't won it all in sooooo long.
Player Debate of the Week: Rafael Betancourt--
We have now seen him in the closer role for two weeks. He has two saves a loss and a blown save. What is your opinion on his time as the closer and do you see him returning into the role at some point this year after Borowski returns?
Samantha Bunten: If the only 2 options at closer for the rest of the season are Betancourt and Borowski, then I choose door #3: jump off a bridge. Seriously though, Betancourt is a good 2+ inning guy and I would hate to waste him in the closer’s role if he doesn’t prove to be particularly good at it. I would rather get 2 good innings out of him as a set up guy. If Borowski can return to his scary, yet mostly effective 2007 form, I’m all for giving him his job back.
Nino Colla: I think he has done a solid job and I don't blame the blown save on him. I do think he hasn't been as good as everyone expected, but right where I expected. With that he goes right back to the set-up role after Borowski gets his feet wet when he comes back. You can't throw Joe back into that role immediately, but he will be back there. I think if anything should arise again, Masahide Kobayashi would take over the closers role, as he has proved to be a good set-up guy so far and really he has been the most reliable arm in hold situations since getting put there.
Michael Taylor: Aside from the fact of the Indians offensive struggles, the bullpen is flying under the radar with its own problems. At the time of the Borowski injury I was all for Betancourt, just to see if his stuff would work this time as the closer, but obviously he has again regressed as he did in 2004 as a closer. We now know the answer, and Borowski will likely return to his job and restore order to the bullpen. We'll have to see how long it lasts though.
The best part of this has been the emergence of Kobayashi, he has solidified his job as a setup man and possibly the closer in-waiting for the next opportunity.
Fun Question of the Week: What is your favorite promotional item recieved or promotion attended at a MLB ballpark?
Samantha Bunten: I once got an Indians “10th man” wristband, which I dutifully did not take off for the entire season.
Nino Colla: I'm a fan of any bobble head really. But as someone who attends 20 games a year (mostly weekends, so I get a lot of the good promotions), my favorite item has to be the Drew Carey Bobble head... No, I'm just kidding. I really enjoyed the rally towels from the playoffs last year, I have them hanging in my room. My favorite bobble head is the Jhonny Peralta one, just because I think they did the best job in terms of likeness. The Grady ones don't really look like him and they both look different. The Sabathia disco one looks goofy.
Michael Taylor: I would have to say Magnet Schedules. I love them and have collected about 5-6 years worth of them to put on my refrigerator. Although, I now have lost that battle with my wife and they are stuck to my filing cabinet in the basement office.
Another is of course bobble heads, I have more Cincinnati Reds bobble heads than Indians because I went to school near Cincinnati, but nevertheless they are fun to collect and put on your shelves. I just wish I could have gotten that Bob Wickman "bobble belly," that one was really hilarious.
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5 months ago
Great job Michael with Tribe Talk. This was the first time I have seen this as I am new to this site but it was very informative as well as interesting. I love to hear what the real fans are thinking and to get different opinions on specific questions. Thanks
from 5 months ago
Thanks! I think it is a fun way for everyone here in the Indians Community to get to know one another and discuss the weekly happenings. If you want in on one, just let me know. I try to get 4-5 people per week in this to keep a decent length, yet promote discussion among the rest of the community.
5 months ago
As far as a lineup, right now against a lefty like Pettite tonight,
Carroll, Gutierrez, Sizemore, Martinez, Garko, Peralta, Shoppach, Francisco & Marte.
Against RHP, Carroll, Dellucci(for now), Sizemore, Martinez, Garko, Hafner, Gutierrez/Francisco, Cabrera(SS) & Marte.
Changes: Grady to # 3, playing Carroll and Marte for a couple of weeks to see what happens, Carroll and Cabrera to play DP combo with sinkerball pitchers in the game, three way swing with our corner OF'ers, and benching Hafner for now against lefties and inserting Shoppach. Wedge won't like this but Blake becomes a super utility man for moves late in the game, if needed. May I add, Eric, no PH duties for Blake, just PR and PF appearances.
This offense does not need just a tweak but a major overhaul. Obtaining a guy like Reggie Willits would make things a lot easier and better and makes this lineup even very flexible.
5 months ago
I agree with Bob, with moving Grady out of the lead-off spot. I believe I just wrote a comment on Bob's most recent article saying the same thing about moving Grady out of there. He can drive in 70+ runs from the lead-off spot, why not let him hit 3rd or 5th and drive in 100. I'd go with
1. Carroll
2. Peralta
3. Martinez
4. Garko
5. Sizemore
6. Hafner
7. Dellucci
8. Franciso
9. Marte
Putting Hafner behind Grady will let Hafner see better pitches. Yes it may detour Grady for a little bit, but once Hafner gets it going, which I still believe he will, they won't be able to pitch around Grady to get to Travis. And then the lineup is scary.
from 5 months ago
If we do move Grady it won't be to the five hole. That is just not smart..
I don't see how putting Grady in front of Hafner would do that for Pronk. If you wanted that effect you would have to put Hafner in FRONT of Grady in my opinion. Even though Pronk is struggling teams will not pitch away from Grady to get to Hafner, at least I don't think they would.
from 5 months ago
Why wouldn't they pitch around Grady to get to Hafner? Hafner is batting a whopping .273 with runners on 1st. If you put Hafner in front of Grady like your saying there is more of a chance of bad things happening for the opposing team. Grady is hitting .313 with runners on 1st with 4 HR. If I'm a team and I see an opportunity to get around either Grady, if you do my suggestiong batting Sizemore 5th and Hafner 6th, or getting around Martinez batting 3rd and Hafner batting 4th. I would take my chances with Hafner. He has not proven himself this year with runners on base, like a 4 hitter should do. Take the chance with the Sizemore 5 and Hafner 6 and get Hafner better pitches to hit. That's what all of this about, getting Travis a few more fastballs and a little less breaking stuff.
from 5 months ago
I enjoy others throwing their ideas and thoughts on lineups.
A few thoughts about your proposed lineup: I am not sure that Peralta would do well batting 2nd. Most guys batting 2nd need to be able to give themselves up for stolen base and hit and run attempts and I am not real sure he would blossom in that setting.
Sizemore would be ideal for # 3 because we could still use his speed. You put him between Martinez or Garko and Hafner, you basically take the wheels away from Grady. Also, I think that it is important to have Grady and Hafner not bat back to back, with both being lefties. I would actually keep Hafner batting 6th or 7th until he shows signs of returning to his old form.
But again, some of my thoughts. It never hurts to look at and discuss different lineup options.
from 5 months ago
Because once they get Grady out, then they don't have to pitch fastballs to Hafner.. If Grady is behind Hafner then they will pitch him(Hafner) fastballs because they don't want to deal with Sizemore following him.
That's how it's always worked.. Why do you think David Ortiz became the monster that he was in Boston? He had Manny batting behind him, he got all sorts of stuff to hit because they didn't want Manny to kill them.
Bob is spot on with the lefty thing as well. I wouldn't even consider them batting back to back because of it, especially when you have a right handed Garko and a switch hitting Martinez to toy with.
Also if you start moving Grady down that far, you are taking away at bats from him, which is just not smart.
5 months ago
Samantha, I remember that game now, what a playoff that was. The most memorable moment of the series was Sandy Alomar's HR of Rivera, but that was an important game in NY, and with the flamethrowing kid Jaret Wright making his first postseason start...I can't believe that slipped my mind.
from 5 months ago
Funny you mention that because when I first saw "Favorite Indians - Yankees Moment", the Alomar HR was the first thing that came to my mind. That definitely tops my list for my favorite Tribe - Yankees moment at the Jake. I remember sitting there watching right before Sandy hit the HR, thinking I'd finally lost my mind because I was convinced that Rivera might actually blow the save. I think I went into shock when it actually happened.
5 months ago
i have a poster in my room of the scoreboard in yankee stadium from August 31, 2004. that is the game the tribe scored 22 runs @ yankee stadium that Nino mentioned...
5 months ago
My favorite moment, and one they just replayed on STO...Bartolo Colon's 1-hitter back in 2000 where he was ohsoclose to a perfect game. After that game I wrote a note and put it up on our fridge at home guaranteeing that the Indians, led by ace Bartolo Colon, would win a World Series before I graduated high school.
I was 13 at the time. I'm now days away from turning 21 and a semester away from graduating college. Still no World Series. Maybe this year.
5 months ago
Wow, I just found Bleacher Report and Tribe Talk...I'm so glad that I did!! I've already added an RSS feed to notify me of new articles about the Tribe and anything from Michael. And I have to agree - Game 2 of the 1997 ALDS was amazing. It was the night before my wedding and my entire wedding party gathered at a local BW-3 to watch the game. The place went wild and, needless to say, the entire wedding party was hungover but very happy at the wedding the next day!
from 5 months ago
sounds like a great time! Glad to have you aboard BR and thanks for adding the RSS!
5 months ago
Michael, I'm still a big Manny Ramirez fan too despite his defection to Boston, so I'm glad you included that in your best Tribe moments at Yankee stadium. It's a shame Manny isn't an Indian anymore (for many reasons of course), but in this case because I wish we could do a "favorite Manny moment". I'll never forget the game winning home run off Eckersley, and the replay that showed a stunned Eck saying simply, "Wow".
from 5 months ago
I laughed watching last night the replays they showed and told my wife that we put most of those into our article. I know I saw the Game 2 and Manny moment replayed last night during the broadcast.
another Manny fan, cool, not to many still like Manny. I agree that by far is my most favorite Manny moment in an Indians uniform. Though there are so many to choose from, maybe we'll do a "Manny being Manny" theme one week.
from 5 months ago
How about number 6 and skinny man Jim Thome hitting his first career jack at a very empty Yankee Stadium? My jaw dropped when I saw Jimmy like that, haha.
I still respect Manny and I love his antics out there.. Can't say he is my favorite but at least he didn't go to a team that I can't stand or anything.
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