World football fans who dislike Manchester City will come up with any reason to minimize anything the club accomplishes. Before any mention of football, these detractors start talking about money.
City pay too much for their players, they say. City were horrible before Sheikh Mansour took control of the club, they obnoxiously remind.
And when City do manage to achieve something notable, as they did with their 3-1 win over Sunderland to claim the Capital One Cup, the rhetoric from the haters is that it is a prize nobody really wants.
Don't you listen to them.
Nobody who follows City will pretend that this trophy is anything more than it is. But it is far, far more than nothing.
City are still alive for three more trophies this season, which after securing the Capital One Cup means the quadruple remains in play.
You'll never get them all if you don't get the first.
Here are six things we learned from Manchester City's 3-1 win over Sunderland.