I understand there are many candidates for MVP: Chris Paul, Kevin Garnett, and Tracy McGrady.
For the sake for this discussion, I will focus on who I think are the two main contenders: Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. I will compare them in various areas.
I won't pick one in this article (I've been ridiculed and harassed in other articles), but will compare them as I said. Here are the categories:
Leadership: Kobe is the seasoned veteran, and has a lot of experience. He keeps his teammates in line. He also makes his teammates better. His competitive attitude spreads among the rest of the team. LeBron can be a laid-back guy, but he is also very determined, and makes his (crappy) teammates better. Edge: Kobe
Clutch Play: Both LeBron and Kobe have had big moments and won many games for their teams. Both have the skill to take over games, and often do so. I see no clear winner here. Edge: Even
Big games: LeBron has been putting up games, and huge numbers overall. Don't get me wrong, Kobe has been excellent, with multiple games with over 40 points, and scoring 52 points in the win over the Mavs. But LeBron has put up 50 twice, including once at Madison Square Garden while receiving the "MVP" chant. LeBron also gets lots of assists and rebounds for his position, and has put up triple-doubles. Edge: LeBron (barely)
Carrying his team: I think LeBron definitely has the edge here. Kobe has a very good surrounding cast with Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Lamar Odom, and a deep bench. LeBron has Ben Wallace, Wally Szerbieck, and Boobie Gibson, or in other words, nobody. LeBron does it all with no help. Edge: LeBron by a mile
Offense (inside game): I like LeBron here. He is so big and powerful that when he drives, he cannot be stopped. LeBron can finish in traffic with his strength. Kobe is also very good off the dribble, but LeBron is better here. Edge: LeBron
Offense (outside game): I like Kobe here. Kobe can consistently shoot from anywhere, including three-point range. Kobe is money when he pulls up for the midrange jumper. Kobe also is an excellent free throw shooter. LeBron, on the other hand, isn't as great of a shooter, but is developing his outside game. Edge: Kobe
Defense: Kobe is a great defender, and can lock-down anyone. He has the will and desire to shut-down whoever he is guarding. LeBron, in contrast, doesn't always play defense with intensity. LeBron sometimes takes defensive possessions off. Edge: Kobe
Quality of competition: Kobe wins this category by a mile. Kobe has to deal with the nine-team deep Western Conference, while LeBron gets to play the weak Eastern Conference teams. Edge: Kobe by a 100 miles
There you go, some of my thoughts to start a debate. I am not endorsing anyone in this article, just getting my thoughts out.
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5 months ago
i disagree with you on just 2 areas:
clutch play: it may look like lebron's more clutch this season, but that's cuz he's had to play more in the 4th quarter than kobe since kobe finally has the better team this season
big games: lebron did have big games, but not in the same level and quality as kobe (i don't mean just the number of points/assists/rebounds he got, i mean the impact he made in the game). plus, lebron scored 50 point games twice, that's only 1 more than kobe, and everyone knows that the 50 point game in MSG was a stat seeking stunt that lebron did, and not through the flow of the game.
from 5 months ago
agreed, that was a stat seeking stunt by lebron...so what lebron has lots of big games this year...u think kobe can't score 50 points...he doens't need too this year...kobe could score 50 in his sleep!
hell he did it 4 games straight...9 straight 40+ point games...81 pt game..30 points in a quarter....lebron does NOT have the edge over kobe in scoring this season or any season...it's because Lebron does not have as much help that he has to score more points simple as that.
Lebron has been better in the clutch this year than may a season...and he has won the head to head battles so yeah looking at this year you could/should in all fairness give him the edge. it would be good too see them against each other at some stage in the playoffs. I would love it..
5 months ago
Sorry -- Lebron's by a mile on "Carrying the team?"
Kobe took a team with Kwame Brown at center, Luke Walton at small center, and Smush Parker at starting point guard ... let's repeat those names, Kwame, Walton, Smush ... to 7 games against the Phoenix Suns, in the Western Conference. Lebron wouldn't have gotten that squad to the playoffs in the west. His current team wouldn't make the playoffs in the west, and it's a much more talented crowd than the people Kobe strapped to his back.
from 5 months ago
THIS SEASON. Kobe has Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and Fisher. LeBron has nobody.
5 months ago
And by "small center," I mean "small forward," of course.
5 months ago
And by "small center," I mean "small forward," of course.
5 months ago
Hmmm....I guess I agree with this for the most part. However, I do think you underestimate LeBron's supporting cast. While he doesn't have the most offensively minded people around him, he's got got solid players. I'm sure Kobe would have taken Sczerbiak, Big Ben, Gibson, etc. around him the last couple years instead of an inconsistent Odom, Puke Walton, Smush, etc. Plus, what about at the beginning of the season, when Kobe didn't have a second star in Gasol? He was still carrying the Lakers and leading them to the best record in the West.
The other part I have an issue with is clutch. The only reason LeBron has more 4th quarter points is because he's had to play a lot more in the 4th, that's all. Kobe might be equal or closer if he had to play the entire 4th quarter every night just to keep his team in it.
5 months ago
Kobo fears LeBron.
LeBron owns Kobo.
Kobo won't pass MJ but LeBron has now surpassed Kobo.
KOBO BRYANT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kobo fears LeBron.
LeBron owns Kobo.
Kobo won't pass MJ but LeBron has now surpassed Kobo.
KOBO BRYANT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kobo fears LeBron.
LeBron owns Kobo.
Kobo won't pass MJ but LeBron has now surpassed Kobo.
KOBO BRYANT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kobo fears LeBron.
LeBron owns Kobo.
Kobo won't pass MJ but LeBron has now surpassed Kobo.
KOBO BRYANT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kobo fears LeBron.
LeBron owns Kobo.
Kobo won't pass MJ but LeBron has now surpassed Kobo.
KOBO BRYANT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kobo fears LeBron.
LeBron owns Kobo.
Kobo won't pass MJ but LeBron has now surpassed Kobo.
KOBO BRYANT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
from 5 months ago
can bleacherreport find a way to keep this guy off the site? He is annoying as hell
5 months ago
what the fuck is kobo? if you're gonna insult somebody at least make it cool or sensible, not lameass like kobo
5 months ago
lebron doesn't have "NOBODY", he has all stars in Z, wally, and ben, and a multiple defensive player winner in ben, sharpshooters in gibson, wally, and jones, and grittiness in anderson. who the heck are you calling nobody? this is infinitely better than what kobe had for the last 4 years and lebron's doing worse than kobe during those times. actually, until this season, lebron had the better team than kobe, and kobe led the scrubs to the playoffs IN THE WEST. do you actually see lebron doing that in the west when he's not even on top IN THE EAST with BETTER TEAM MATES?
from 5 months ago
Wally and Z are stars????????????
Are you freakin' kidding me?
As Jim Mora once said, " You Kiddin' Me?"
from 4 months ago
Wally has 1 All-star appearance, he played twelve minutes, scored 10 points nba.com/playerfile/wally_szczerbiak/career_stats.html
Z has 2 All-star appearances
nba.com/playerfile/zydrunas_ilgauskas/career_stats.html
owned Divya
5 months ago
Divya you say in your article that you're not endorsing anybody, but you sure sound like you're endorsing Lebron.
from 5 months ago
I gave 4 categories to Kobe, 3 to LeBron, and one was even. That seems pretty even.
I intially said LeBron was the MVP, but now I am seeing both sides.
I could make a case both ways.
5 months ago
(When taking into account your comment)
from 5 months ago
I was just trying to be clear.
I am frustrated when people mention Kobe getting robbed in past seasons. That doesn't matter anymore.
5 months ago
Kobe the best player in the world he can do anything with the ball.
Lebron sucks like shite .... all he has a big body and gets lucky in games thats all.
Kobe vs. Lebron kobe will destroy lebron
Kobe is the best
Kobe should be the M.V.P. ever year ..he is the best
5 months ago
You're frustrated Divya? Imagine how Kobe feels when everyone really knows deep down that he should have won at least 2 by now. But you're right, it doesn't matter anymore because Kobe transcends the award. It won't matter unless Lebron wins it for this year or any similar situation, because it will expose the prejudice against Kobe and the hypocrisy of the media.
from 5 months ago
I agree Kobe should have won by now, but sports doesn't involve mulligans.
5 months ago
No offense Divya, but do you know your history? Wally and Z were all stars. And so was Hughes (he would officially have played if he weren't injured that year, in which he also led the league in steals).
from 5 months ago
Key word: WERE, not are
5 months ago
people really need to learn the craft they're writing about. otherwise you get crap writers like divya
from 4 months ago
lol yeah key word are not now lol there washed up . lebron is a bad ass he is you ng has broken some of mjs records kobe is a great player a ball hog getting better at that now he is actually passng it around but wat i see is funny is lebron has more assists thena shooting guard and he is a power forward lol come one now more points and more assists.?? when does that hapen?? seriously??? NEVER!!!!! Lebron is just a bad ass kobe is getting older and washed up and he has all his plublicity stressing him out. they may give it to kobe cause this is going to be one of t last good yeard for kobe because he is nothing like michael jordan and wont be able to do better and better. KOBE BRYANT IS NOT AND WILL NEVER BE BETTER THEN JORDAN!!!!!!!!! THATS LIKE COMPARING 2 COMPLETELY OPPOSITE THINGS THATS LIKE compaing tom brady and andre aggessi its liek comparing foot ball to tennis seriously he will never be better hten jordan im sorry.
5 months ago
"I am frustrated when people mention Kobe getting robbed in past seasons. That doesn't matter anymore."
Sure it does. Kobe's been the best player in the game 6 years or so at this point (though I grant, Lebron's close right now.) So what? Best player, even if we give that to Lebron (and I won't, on D and a couple other things) -- best player does not equal MVP, as we've seen repeatedly in Kobe's case. No MVP in 25 years has come from a team winning less than 50 games, and Lebron won't be the one to break that streak.
5 months ago
Fairness is not equivalent to dishing out an equal number of categories to each player. It's giving out the proper evaluations to each player, whether it happens to be equally numbered or not. We're not in an affirmative action sports board.
5 months ago
Divya,
Although I agree and wouldnt necessarily call them "stars", Z is actually a 2-time allstar while wally has been named an allstar once. I think the commentor's point was that LBJs current teammates are better than what Kobe had the last 2 seasons and I'd have to agree with that. Even at this point in their careers Id rather have Wally over Luke Walton, Z over Kwame and Gibson over Smush. Kobe took an inferior team to the playoffs in the West twice, while Lebron with his superior supporting cast would not even make it to the top 9 in the West. This is all hypothetical of course but he does make an interesting argument.
from 5 months ago
I have a question though. Would you say the West was as tough when Kobe had bad teams? I would say no. The Warriors made the playoffs with 42 wins last year.
5 months ago
Just imagine if the Cavs were in the West and we wouldnt even be having this argument. Its been mentioned that no MVP in the last 25 years has won less than 50 games, but imagine a MVP from a team that cant even make the playoffs
from 5 months ago
I can hypothetical you back. What if LeBron had Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and Fisher?
His team would win 50-something games.
5 months ago
LeBron has no chance. His team is 40-31 in the East. He'd have to win 10 of his last 11 to win 50 and that's no happening. You can't win the MVP when your team can't win 50 in the East. The Cavs are 9 games over .500. The Lakers are 27 over .500 and the Hornets are 26 games over .500. Both are in the West.
LeBron wants MVP.
Kobe wins MVP.
LeBron gets swept in Finals.
Kobe wins three out of four Finals.
Here's a quote from Ira Newble when asked to compare LeBron and Kobe:
“You know what? Kobe’s better, and if you ask LeBron, he’ll tell you Kobe’s better,” Newble said.
from 5 months ago
Two words: Shaquille O'Neal.
Kobe won in the Finals with Shaq, the arguably most dominant big man of his era ( Duncan has a case ).
from 5 months ago
Two words: You're 16.
When Kobe won his first title you were 8.
from 5 months ago
Why does age matter? I'm 16, get over it.
I could comment about World War I, but I'm not 100 years old. You don't have to be old to know about something.
from 5 months ago
Age matters because you don't know what you're talking about. How would you know why Kobe won in the Finals? It's not like you remember it. You read it somewhere else and you repeated like it was true.
A hater will always be a hater so I'll never change your mind. If Kobe wins without Shaq you'll say it's because he had Gasol and Bynum. There's nothing he could do to make you acknowledge it so I'm just wasting my time.
In the three Finals where the Lakers won the title, the Conference Finals were the true Finals considering that each opponent was a better team than any of the three the Lakers faced in the Finals. Portland in 2000, San Antonio in 2001 and Sacramento in 2002 were all better than the Pacers, Sixers or Nets.
In 2000 against the Blazers, Kobe had 25 points, 11 boards and 7 assists in Game 7. You were in 2nd grade so I doubt you remember it.
In 2001 against the Spurs, Kobe had 45 points, 10 boards and 3 assists in Game 1; 28, 7 and 6 in Game 2; 36, 9 and 8 in Game 3; 24, 2 boards and 11 assists in Game 4. You were in 3rd grade.
In 2002 against the Kings, he had 30, 10 boards and 7 assists in Game 7. You were in 4th grade.
Don't hate Kobe because your Warriors are garbage.
5 months ago
"I have a question though. Would you say the West was as tough when Kobe had bad teams? I would say no. The Warriors made the playoffs with 42 wins last year."
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? YOU'RE SAYING THE WEST HASN'T BEEN TOUGH THE LAST 3 YEARS? please go home and pack your bags.
"I can hypothetical you back. What if LeBron had Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and Fisher? His team would win 50-something games."
Yep, the cavs would win 50 something games, but if Kobe were on the cavs with those team mates in the EAST he would win over 60 games like the celts. see the difference? you need to take into consideration relativity. if lebron were in the WEST with those team mates he'd win like 38 to 42 games.
"Two words: Shaquille O'Neal.
Kobe won in the Finals with Shaq, the arguably most dominant big man of his era"
4 words: Kobe Bryant, Dywane Wade
Shaq won 3 rings because of the best shooting guard in the league and 1 with a poor man's version of Kobe during the most controversial and fluke championship in history in the eastern conference
from 5 months ago
Are you so sure Kobe could win 60 games with LeBron's current team?
5 months ago
Its ridiculous how the MVP race has turned into a "who's-got-the-worst-teammates" contest. I keep hearing things like, "Well the Cavs are 1-7 in games without Lebron", or "Even without Kobe the Lakers are a playoff team with Gasol and Odom", or "Chris Paul should be MVP because hes winning with less talent around him". If this is really the way to determine the MVP then no player from a good team would ever win it. The best way to win an MVP would be to go to a lousy team then get injured to show everyone how "valuable" you are because your team sucks without you. Memphis is 3-18 since Gasol left. Miami is 3-12 since Shaq left. Does that make them legitimate MVP candidates?
Consider the case of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird who have 6 MVPs combined. They both played for loaded teams who would have still posted winning records without either guy. The 80's Celtics and Lakers still had enough All-Stars and All-Star calibre players to make the playoffs without Magic or Bird. Does the ability of their teammates to win games and avoid the lottery without Magic or Bird make these two greats non-MVP worthy? Maybe they should return those MVPs because they had such excellent teammates.
Think about it before making that ridiculous argument again.
from 5 months ago
MVP does stand for most VALUABLE player. Who is the most valuable?
5 months ago
AMEN TO THE PERSON ABOVE ME!
5 months ago
The only inside Game Lebron has is driving or dunking. Kobe can post ups, Kareem's skyhook, and bunch of other stuffs. so i dont see how Bron has the advantage in inside scoring.
5 months ago
Once again Divya, you claim in your article that you're not endorsing anyone, but you obviously endorse Lebron. Don't lie, ok? Also, there's no shame in admitting you were wrong, we're all human. Every rational argument has shown that your stance on Lebron is flawed.
from 5 months ago
It's easy to hide behind your Anonymous cover and rip me. Any person, idiot or dumb, can do that. Make your own arguement.
from 5 months ago
It's easy to hide behind your Anonymous cover and rip me. Any person, idiot or dumb, can do that. Make your own arguement.
from 5 months ago
It's easy to hide behind your Anonymous cover and rip me. Any person, idiot or dumb, can do that. Make your own arguement.
from 5 months ago
It's easy to hide behind your Anonymous cover and rip me. Any person, idiot or dumb, can do that. Make your own arguement.
5 months ago
ok. all you guys need to get off Divya's back, first off his age don't matter as long as he can make a clear, objective, and accurate argument, which I think he did, second, this is not an argument as to who the most versatile player is, say what you want about Lebron's outside game he carries his team day in and day out... here's a nice hypothetical, what if the Cavs had no Lebron, they'd be a lottery team that would score 70-80 points a night, the Lakers would be a decent team as they still have 2 studs in Gasol and Bynum and a decent scorer in Odom, third, Kobe's supporting cast in years past should have no sway here since this article is clearly debating which one should win the MVP this year, not who has had the better career, last, Ralph, sure kobe may be more versatile inside or outside, but who is more efficient/dominant inside? I thought so, Lebron gets the job done with the moves he has and if he continues to do his thing, how Kobe scores as opposed to Lebron should not matter, Keep up the good work Divya
and to that last anonymous, sure those teams would have been playoff teams but Bird and Magic pushed them over the hump, meaning that they earned their MVP awards, Lebron leading a team of castoffs(Wally and big ben aren't all stars anymore and Lebron is clearly the catalyst to that offense) to the playoffs is equivalent to that
last off, Divya its ok to express an opinion, if people harass you for no reason then thats their problem, it shouldn't matter where you stand as long as you back it up and it seems to me like you have the ability to do so. peace
5 months ago
"I have a question though. Would you say the West was as tough when Kobe had bad teams? I would say no. The Warriors made the playoffs with 42 wins last year."
Not as tough as the West is now but still tougher than the East is today. Now you may speculate as to whether Kobe could take his old supporting cast to the West playoffs today, or whether Lebron would be able to take his present team to the West playoffs the last 2 seasons, but I feel like you're missing the point. Kobe taking his inferior supporting cast to the West playoffs the last 2 seasons was a much tougher task than Lebron taking his superior supporting cast to the East playoffs this year. Kobe avoiding the lottery with the kind of team he had was an amazing feat. Lebron making the playoffs in the Leastern confernce this season with less than 50 wins is rather unspectacular.
So lets try to make Lebron's season more impressive by imagining how his team would do in the West. This is where Lebron falls flat.
5 months ago
I don't see how LeBron wins the MVP. I realize he's damn important to his team, but Kobe is just as much, if not more important to the Lakers. And personally, I don't think anyone in the East deserves the MVP. I've been saying this for over a month now and I'm going to continue to say so. The MVP should be coming out of the West this year, plain and simple. If you're in the East, you should be disqualified because of how pathetic the conference is that you're in, even though it's not your fault. The East has never been this bad - we're looking at at least two sub-.500 teams in the playoffs, and that's pathetic. In the West though, it's a battle every single night. To go out and be 48-21, despite missing a key cog to your team for a majority of the season is absolutely incredible considering how good and how deep the conference is. If the Lakers crack 55 wins, the MVP has to go to Kobe. He's the best player in the NBA, he's putting up MVP stats and then some, and he has arguably the best team in the NBA. You take away Kobe, the Lakers are a lottery team, but with him, they're on pace to win over 50 games. I'd say that deserves something.
5 months ago
"I can hypothetical you back. What if LeBron had Gasol, Bynum, Odom, and Fisher? His team would win 50-something games."
Thats a poor argument. In that statement you can substitute Lebron with Pierce, Ray Allen, McGrady, Iverson, Carmelo, Vince Carter, Manu or practically any above-average swingman and it would still ring true. So what makes Lebron so special then? Anyone can win with good teammates so whats your point?
from 5 months ago
My point is to people that say Kobe is winning 50+ games so he is the MVP. Winning 50+ games with that supporting cast is nothing special.
5 months ago
"all you guys need to get off Divya's back, first off his age don't matter as long as he can make a clear, objective, and accurate argument, which I think he did"
this is coming from a person who's also 15. and no divya did not make a clear, logical, and accurate argument
5 months ago
divya, you really have no chance against foolproof logic and reasoning.
5 months ago
"sure those teams would have been playoff teams but Bird and Magic pushed them over the hump, meaning that they earned their MVP awards, Lebron leading a team of castoffs(Wally and big ben aren't all stars anymore and Lebron is clearly the catalyst to that offense) to the playoffs is equivalent to that"
Max you're missing the point. Kobe having a better supporting cast is being cited as a negative to his MVP chances. Yet how come Bird and Magic never faced this kind of criticism when they were both surrounded with multiple All-Stars? How does having better teammates make Kobe less of a player?
I dont quite understand what you're getting at. You're saying Lebron taking the Cavs to a mere 4th place in the awful Eastern Conference is equivalent to what?
If Lebron leading Wally and Ben Wallace to the playoffs in the east is such an amazing task, then please give credit where credit is due. Kobe leading the vastly inferior cast of Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Luke Walton and Brian Cook to the playoffs in the inifintely tougher Western Conference was a monumental task compared to what Lebron has accomplished.
5 months ago
Ilgauskas, Wally, Ben Wallace are all former all-stars, so i dont see what u guys are talking about. Gibson and D.Jones are two top 3 pt shooters..
from 5 months ago
Good points, but Wally and Wallace are on the decline, and Gibson and Jones don't get their open shots without attention focused on LeBron.
5 months ago
"My point is to people that say Kobe is winning 50+ games so he is the MVP. Winning 50+ games with that supporting cast is nothing special."
But then Lebron winning less than 50 games in the Leastern Conference is?
Dont judge Kobe or Lebron's value by the quality of their teammates. Judge them by how they play and what they've accomplished. Kobe's been winning against tougher opponents and under tougher circumstances. What challenges has Lebron faced and overcome in the East this season?
The only thing Lebron has going for him is his stats. But the truth is that Lebron doesnt even need to average 30-8-7 for the Cavs to make the playoffs. Even if he held back, the east is so bad that the Cavs would still make it. Its not like the Cavs are fighting for their lives to make the playoffs anyway. There's no danger of them falling out. Theyre not even fighting for better seeding.
5 months ago
""all you guys need to get off Divya's back, first off his age don't matter as long as he can make a clear, objective, and accurate argument, which I think he did"
this is coming from a person who's also 15. and no divya did not make a clear, logical, and accurate argument"
HAHAHAHAHAHAH SO TRUE, SO TRUE
5 months ago
"It's easy to hide behind your Anonymous cover and rip me. Any person, idiot or dumb, can do that. Make your own arguement."
Sure, any idiot can do that. But so can people more intelligent than you. And I think we have already made our arguments to which you are unable to refute. G'day
5 months ago
"MVP does stand for most VALUABLE player. Who is the most valuable?"
So by your definition, the MVP should go to the player whos team needs him the most, the player whos absence would hurt his team the worst.
Ok if we were to go by this criteria then Elton Brand is a leading candidate coz the Clips suck without him. Maybe Dwyane Wade then? Hes been gone for most (and the rest) of the season and Miami is at the bottom of the league. What about Stephon Marbury? The Knicks have sure lost a lot of games since he left. I know! How about Greg Oden? Portland is a lottery team without him.
from 5 months ago
Portland started out smoking hot without Oden, showing they don't need him.
The Knicks have sucked with or without any individual player for the past couple years. Marbury is irrelevant.
Dwayne Wade PLAYED MOST OF THE SEASON (50 something games), and the Heat still sucked.
5 months ago
"Are you so sure Kobe could win 60 games with LeBron's current team?" divya you are truly a one of a kind dunce. you argued that kobe's not that spectacular because lebron would win 50 games if he had the team mates kobe has. what i claimed using your same scenario is that kobe with his current team mates in the EAST would win 60 games
from 5 months ago
My point was 60 wins is unlikely no matter who you play with LeBron's team. The team isn't good enough to win 60 games, even if MJ was on the team.
5 months ago
You say without Lebron the Cavs would be a lottery team. Well without Oden the Blazers are a lottery team. Without Wade the Heat would be challenging the all time record for most losses.
But lets not take this too seriously. I was obviously just making light of your argument that the MVP should go to the player from the team that would lose the most if he was gone. Unfortunately this applies to every team that has a weak supporting cast. In other words, its not a very valid basis of judging the MVP.
5 months ago
divya is not sophisticated or intelligent enough to perceive or understand the nuances and sarcasm of people's claims. again, he's 16 years old. being young usually hurts you in both knowledge and intelligence
5 months ago
Take Al Jefferson away from the Wolves. Take Durant from Seattle. Take Rudy Gay from Memphis. Take any of these guys away and their teams may not even have 5 wins.
On the other hand lets speculate what would happen to the better teams if you take away their star. How is taking Lebron from the Cavs worse than taking Chris Paul from the Hornets, Steve Nash from the Suns, Carlos Boozer from Utah, Duncan from the Spurs, Dirk from Dallas or Dwight Howard from Orlando? Theyd be lottery teams too, or at best theyd all lose a lot more games.
Like I said before, when did the MVP become a "who's-got-the-worst-teammates" contest? Sure wasn't like that when Bird, Magic, Kareem and Russell were winning their MVPs.
from 5 months ago
I see your point, but the Suns still have Stoudamire and Shaq. The Jazz still have Deron Williams and AK47.
Overall, you are right though.
5 months ago
What about Michael Jordan? In the 92-93 season the Bulls had the 2nd best record in the East with 57 wins. The following season, with Jordan gone, the Bulls still managed to get 3rd in the east with 55 wins. Thats a mere dropoff of 2 games despite missing the 3-time MVP (at that point)! Does the Bulls ability to win games without Jordan diminish his value?
5 months ago
good point...^
5 months ago
"Why does age matter? I'm 16, get over it.
I could comment about World War I, but I'm not 100 years old. You don't have to be old to know about something"
damn you're stupid. of course age matters. you can comment about stuff about WW1, but it doesn't make it true or factual. you just read an account of it, which was also an account from another account and so forth. only idiots believe everything they read from books or articles about non-scientific things. these books are made by historians, and historians aren't always right. why do you think historians are always debating? and even "accepted" ideas are not necessarily true because they never lived during the era they're "studying"
from 5 months ago
Plus, I'm taking about stuff today. We're both alive last time I checked, and we're both looking at the same stuff. We're both live and in person. Who cares about my age?
5 months ago
"Good points, but Wally and Wallace are on the decline, and Gibson and Jones don't get their open shots without attention focused on LeBron."
you just made an argument for kobe too because kobe demands constant attention from the defense. doesn't matter if wally and wallace are on the decline, cuz they can still contribute. just because they're not as good as what they used to be from their early careers doesn't mean they're bad right now. it just means they're on the decline. jordan was on the decline on the wizards but he was still damn good.
from 5 months ago
You can't compare Jordan's decline to any other player's decline. Jordan was a special case. He was the best ever.
5 months ago
"You can't compare Jordan's decline to any other player's decline. Jordan was a special case. He was the best ever."
uh divya...i'm not comparing players...i'm explaining logic, and logic transcends any person. i was using jordan's case to illustrate the logical implication. i'm sure you don't get this cuz you have repeatedly shown you don't. just give up divya, you're constantly getting owned.
from 5 months ago
Never give it. Don't stop believin' as a song once said.
5 months ago
seriously divya, please stop. please i'm begging you. you're killing everyone with your horrible logic and argumentation skill. just keep practicing at home and come back in 5 years or so when you have honed your skills and gained more intelligence
from 5 months ago
Well then, why do you all keep coming back and arguing back at me?
If I am important enough to argue with, I must be doing something right.
If I was irrelevant, I would have gotten 0 reads and 0 comments by now.
5 months ago
"Never give it. Don't stop believin' as a song once said."
just don't keep repeating the same mistakes like you are doing now. never giving up but never learning while you're at it is dumber than just making a mistake for the first time.
5 months ago
"Well then, why do you all keep coming back and arguing back at me?
If I am important enough to argue with, I must be doing something right.
If I was irrelevant, I would have gotten 0 reads and 0 comments by now."
dude, you were really dumb before. but now you're dumb AND ARROGANT. you actually think we're commenting because it happens to be you, the great divya, who's writing this? these comments could have been written by anyone else and we'd still be refuting your arguments. we're more motivated by correcting wrong ideas than needing to reply just cuz it happens to be you or that "you're doing something right".
dang, get over yourself. lol..."if i am important enough to argue w/..." such a high opinion of your low quality skills...lol
from 5 months ago
I'm not an arrogant person by nature.
In fact, my arguements have been wrong. I'm not perfect and not God-like in anyway.
Atleast I'm GOING OUT ON A LIMB, and that makes for good debate.
5 months ago
"plus, I'm taking about stuff today. We're both alive last time I checked, and we're both looking at the same stuff. We're both live and in person. Who cares about my age?"
HOW FUCKING STUPID ARE YOU DIVYA???????? HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE REMINDED THAT YOU DIDN'T EVEN REALLY WATCH KOBE PLAY???? STOP WITH YOUR FUCKING STUPID COME BACKS LIKE "OOO WE'RE STILL ALIVE, WHO CARES ABOUT MY AGE"...WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SAME STUFF NOW, BUT YOU DIDN'T EVEN LOOK AT THE STUFF A DECADE AGO.
5 months ago
"My point was 60 wins is unlikely no matter who you play with LeBron's team. The team isn't good enough to win 60 games, even if MJ was on the team."
DO YOU FUCKING KNOW HOW TO ARGUE???? YOUR ORIGINAL CLAIM WAS THAT LEBRON WOULD WIN 50 SOMETHING GAMES WITH KOBE'S CURRENT TEAM MATES. SOMEONE REFUTED YOUR POINT BY SAYING THAT IF KOBE AND HIS TEAM MATES PLAYED IN THE EAST, HE WOULD WIN 60 GAMES. AND NOW YOU TRY TO "REFUTE" THIS BY SAYING THE ABOVE. YOU CAN'T "REFUTE" THIS STATEMENT BY BRINGING UP DIFFERENT PREMISES ALTOGETHER, LIKE USING LEBRON'S TEAM MATES. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT KOBE'S TEAM MATES BECAUSE YOU CRITICIZED KOBE FOR HAVING BETTER TEAM MATES THAN LEBRON. FUCKING DUMBASS KID
from 5 months ago
Wow what an angry response. Calm down.......
4 months ago
"Atleast I'm GOING OUT ON A LIMB, and that makes for good debate."
actually, it's not even a debate when you don't even have correct points or use sound logic. this whole session has pretty much been you getting corrected and taught what a proper debate should be
from 4 months ago
Yeah......
Did you see LeBron's 50 points at the Garden? 30 points per game? Oscar Robertson type numbers?
Single handedly carrying his team?
No debate? THERE IS A DEBATE.
4 months ago
LeBron should win the MVP.
4 months ago
Who really cares? Everyone will forget who wins it a week later. You can't argue against either guy you can only argue for them.
4 months ago
Who really cares? Everyone will forget who wins it a week later. You can't argue against either guy you can only argue for them.
4 months ago
Only non NBA fans would say that. Im sure most NBA fans can name the last 10 MVPs. Heck I can name every MVP since 1980 and I dont even consider myself a hard core NBA addict.
4 months ago
LeBron's defense will improve with time.....when he's as old as kobe he will be amazing
4 months ago
Well, all I'm saying is with the team he has, Kobe better win a championship this year cause if he doesnt I dont wanna hear how great he is anymore. Played 11 seasons and has 3 rings( which isn't too bad at all) but also has struggled over the years: dissed his own teammate ( humiliated him in fact) to a pair of nobodys on the street, always complains about his supporting cast and has entered the MVP talk the same day Pau Gasol entered his team. KObe does make his teammates better, BYnum improved because a 6 time MVP works with him everyday and not because KObe simply ignores him. We say he is a winner because...?? he won in the past but what of today?? oh the west is strong I know but dont give me that as an excuse otherwise let him go to the east then. Funny how time changes, last year everybody criticized his unsportsmanlike attitude, selfishness and now that his team looks pretty tight ( and not thanks to him) he suddenly becomes better than everybody else in the history of the league. I will give him my respect if he wins his first championship as a leader but if he doesn't no more talk of his "winner" profile.
4 months ago
The person above me is a stupid ass. 11 seasons and 3 rings "isn't too bad at all"? 99% of the players in the history of the nba don't even have rings- I guess they're pretty good by your standards.
I don't approve of his diss, but that was supposed to be a private talk (he didn't even intend it to be a public tirade), but instead got his trust betrayed by some street punks secretly recording it and selling it online. You don't think lebron disses his team mates in private? He even disses his team mates in public but no one cares, so what makes you think he doesn't diss them in private?
Kobe had mvp talks even b4 pau arrived. You do remember how kobe led the lakers to one of the best records in the west even before pau arrived?
I'm sure having a great trainer helps in Bynum's improvement. But did he even show a hint of any improvement even until the end of last season? He was infamous for having a poor work ethic even with Kareem helping him. He even said so himself that the tape motivated him to actually work and train hard this summer. Any coincidence that the moment he decides to commit himself to improving himself that he actually improves? I think not. Kobe's video was a blessing in disguise. I don't approve of it, but in hindsight it helped the team- just look at how everyone has the same intensity as Kobe now from the start of the season.
He didn't suddenly become better than everyone in history, the arguments been there for many years already. He wasn't even criticized for being unsportsmanlike last year. If you didn't have a short term memory, he was actually being praised in the beginning of the season, just like this year, for changing into a great facilitator and trusting his team mates more. But half the Lakers went down with injuries, Bynum was a dud back then, but he still tried to facilitate. What did this accomplish? The Lakers kept losing, so Kobe was specifically ordered by Phil to shoulder the offensive load, which is actually when the Lakers started winning.
I bet you're one of those people who completely ignore Jordan's first 5 or 6 years in the league when he was the most selfish and arrogant player in history and didn't even win a single ring when he tried to play it all by himself. Kobe went through a similar time like that for the first 3 years after Shaq left, but he's getting it now, much faster than Jordan ever did. Jordan never won a ring without great players. Kobe now has good players and a chance for a ring.
Just shut the fuck up. It's obvious you're a Kobe hater.
4 months ago
Wow this is intense.
4 months ago
lebron james is GOING TO WIN IT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2 months ago
ANy person who clearly knows and watches basketball should know that Kobe Bryant is the best player in the world. Ask any NBA player who the most feared player is and they will say Kobe. and ask Allen IVerson who the funnest player to watch is=kobe bryant and jsut plain look at Kobe in all aspects. Can shoot, can dunk, can dribble, all pro defender, has the ability to come back from a 20 point deficit and in a 4th quarter and can score at any given momment. Don't get me wrong, Lebron is up there but there are a few other player i can put at Lebrons level and no one can be put at Kobes level except for Michael Jordan. And people say Lebron had no team, uhh yeah 2 all stars and he was player milwauke, charlette, memphis, Nets, hawks and it goes on all year long while kobe is facing the best teams in the Nba on the west and still maninting a solid record with shit players when he had no one and when he did get gasol,look what it turned into a fuckin domination, Kobe has no weakness in basketball accept that he can get a lil stingy at points but if you;ve watched him and watched this season hes grown tremendously and and put up mad assists and had faith and his team and mad them alot better and got everyone scoring and when he did need to take over because they were in a slump, he did like any Mvp should. It is what it is. Kobe Bryant is the best player over the last 10 years and is still in his prime and is still the most explosive character in the NBA at this very moment.
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