The NHL and NHLPA appear to be digging in for a serious lockout.
This does not appear to be one that will end in days or a couple of weeks.
That's the way Gary Bettman has done it in the past, and the presence of Donald Fehr on the players' side doesn't mean Bettman is going to quietly fold his cards.
He wants to show he's a tough guy.
So instead of both sides heading to the negotiating table, hockey fans are getting the waiting game. We'll see who can outwait the other and how much of the season gets scrubbed as a result.
But there are concrete issues to discuss once a more reasonable approach is taken.
Here's a look at five crucial issues.