Brady vs Manning. The debate rages on. Last year, after the Super Bowl, there was article after article about why Peyton was better. Now, 50 touchdowns and an undefeated regular season later, everyone is on the "Brady is better" bandwagon.
Me. Not sure. To me this is like deciding between Elisha Cuthbert and Angelina Jolie. I'm not qualified to make the argument on either side.
The thing that I find interesting is how, when making the argument for one or the other, we see what we want to see. We back into our arguments.
So, this article is going to sound somewhat anti-Brady. I'm not anti-Brady. I think he's one of the best quarterbacks ever. I just think there are some major disconnects in some of the arguments that are made in his favor. Keep in mind that I live in Massachusetts and have heard all of the arguments as to why Brady is better. Some are accurate and some aren't. Even some of the ones that are accurate are somewhat inconsistent.
Argument in Brady's favor: Tom Brady is considered as clutch as they come.
Facts: Tom Brady is famous for the 4th quarter drive to win the big game. However, in the last two playoff games that the Patriots lost, Tom Brady has had the ball in his hands with time expiring and a chance to win the game. The results were an interception against the Colts and a turnover on downs against the Giants. Go back one more year and you have a big interception in the red zone in a playoff game returned for a TD by Champ Bailey.
And yet, to this day, we consider Brady clutch. Why? Because once he came through a few times, we stopped paying attention to the times where he didn't.
Now the "choker." Peyton Manning got the reputation that he couldn't win the big game. First with his games against Florida and then with the Colts. But, again, our eyes see what we want them to see.
After the Colts bowed out against the Chargers this year, the talk around Boston (where I live) were the two interceptions thrown by "Sey"-ton. Not the 400+ yards or 3 touchdowns in what amounted to a heroic performance. Or the fact that both interceptions went through or off the hands of the intended receiver.
Our eyes see what we want them to see. We wait for Peyton to choke and Brady to come through in the clutch.
Brady came back the next week and threw three interceptions against those same Chargers. General synopsis: the interceptions don't tell the story since the Pats won the game.
Argument: The loss against the Giants wasn't Tom Brady's fault. His line didn't give him any time.
Facts: Two years ago, the Colts lost a playoff game to the Steelers. The Colts were unable to give Manning any time and he was, essentially ineffective. However, some people who saw both games say Peyton choked. Something doesn't make sense there. We see what we want to see. Neither quarterback was responsible for their team's loss.
Argument: Now that Brady has thrown 50 TDs in a season, he has surpassed Peyton.
Facts: The reaction when Peyton broke the record was that numbers don't matter. Now, all of a sudden, they do. Interesting. The fact is that Tom Brady broke his personal record by 22 TDs and had never previously thrown more than 30 TDs. If numbers continue to be the argument, Brady doesn't win.....yet.
Argument: Brady has now proven what he would have done if he had great receivers his entire career - like Peyton has.
Facts: This one may be true. But, there is one thing to keep in mind. Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne are great receivers. The question becomes - would they have been great receivers if they didn't have Peyton. It's a very valid question - and it may be unfair to the two receivers. Yes, they were both first round picks. But, go look at recent drafts. Many, many, many receivers are taken in the first round. And, it seems, most don't pan out. It's a matter of the chicken and the egg. Would Reggie Wayne have been Troy Williamson if he didn't have Peyton?
You could actually, if you wanted to, turn this argument around and ask why Brady wasn't able to turn someone like Bethel Johnson into a better player. Of course, that argument goes out the window when you see what Welker did this year (but was that because of Brady or Moss).
The final point on this argument is that Randy Moss has been exceptional at getting his quarterbacks to have career years. Randall Cunningham, Jeff George and Daunte Culpepper all SHATTERED career highs when playing with Moss. Again, did Brady's skill lead to Moss' success or did Moss' skill lead to Brady's? Probably a little of both, but worth thinking about. Moss has had success without Brady. Harrison and Wayne have not had success without Manning - they've never played with anyone else.
I'll say it again. We see what we want to see. When Manning threw 2 interceptions against the Chargers in the playoffs this year the word around New England was that he choked. Never mind that he threw for 400 yards and 3 touchdowns. The next week, Brady threw 3 interceptions against the same Chargers. The argument there was that the interceptions were the receivers' faults. Here's on of Peyton's interceptions from that game - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uByh47EPoro . The other went through Reggie Wayne's hands.
I know this article won't be popular with Patriots fans. But, when judging the better of these two players, I think it's important to be objective. There's a very good chance you'll still end up at the same conclusion.
One more thing. I don't understand why we have to criticize one of these players at the expense of the other. The're both future hall of famers that will be considered among the top 5 in history.
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5 months ago
I completely agree with your closing statement--both are great. There really is no definitive way to compare them. They're just different. It's like Montana or Marino, except it's even further complicated because they both have at least one ring. Good article.
from 5 months ago
I agree. Whenever I hear someone arguing over who is better, I just want to boink them in the eye.
Can't everyone just accept that they both are extremely talented and skilled quarterbacks?
5 months ago
I'll add my agreement to the above two comments. I am a Colts fan, and therefore obviously a Manning fan. But you know what? Tom Brady is one of the greatest QBs ever. Anyone who says otherwise is making an emotional argument... not a logical one.
The media wants us to feel like we have to pick one, because that makes for better debate and argument. But think about how lucky we are to live in an era that sees two all-time greats playing at the same time (not to mention that Farve, having only now just retired, was playing right alongside these two in recent years). We're lucky. Instead of choosing which one is best, we should celebrate their collective awesomeness. One of them being great doesn't make the other less great. That's just ridiculous.
5 months ago
I guess the important question is.....who's better: Elisha or Angelina?
5 months ago
The botton line is neither of them will ever be like Joe Montana. He is the Greatest of all time
Tom Brady could come close to him, but he needs anot her ring and i don't see that happening for him any time soon. Peyton Manning in my mind can't win 3 superbowls like Brady, and Montana.
5 months ago
This is a really good article with very well thought out points. Keep it up.
5 months ago
I know Manning is legit, the only thing with Brady is, he entered the patriots (an amazing team), year in year out.
Manning's team was a joke when he started, they built that team from scratch starting with them.
I am hesitant to say brady is better than manning because we've never seen brady go through the trials and tribulations that manning has gone through. We'll never know at this stage of their career.
That's why I never liked when analysts pick brady over manning for who to start a franchise with. Manning has done it!!!!!
5 months ago
The thing you have to remember about Brady's record season is that he did it playing virtually every snap of the season as he and Belichek were determined to break records... even if games were already decided they would simply run up the score. On the other hand during Manning's record season, many times he came out in the middle of the third quarter and actually played very little in their final two regular season games (only one series in the last game as a matter of fact.) In that respect it compares to Moss breaking Rice's record. He required more playing time to do it, so was it really more impressive?
5 months ago
My only problem comes with your first point about Brady having the ball in the last two playoff games and not winning.
In the Colts game last year he had like 1:30 to drive the entire length of the field. No one has EVER done that in that situation.
This year he did make the clutch plays and put the Pats in position to win with that TD drive which finished with just under 3 minutes. The defense just didnt come through. And who can expect him to go the whole field in 45 seconds?
5 months ago
So much for being objective... It's good how you mention that manning's 2 interceptions against sd were not his fault because they were tipped. Then you point out that Brady threw 3 interceptions the following week yet neglect to mention the tipped passes there..... Convenient.
5 months ago
I was playing devil's advocate. You're missing my point. I DON'T blame brady for the chargers loss. I just think that, IF you blame manning, you have to blame brady - but I don't blame either one.
And as far as driving the length of the field with 1:30, I didn't expect him to do that. My point is that we conveneniently make excuses. If it was manning we would have said he choked. You say he had the pats in a position to win the sb. You're right. But they didn't. Shouldn't matter - he did all he could - but if it was manning you would say he choked. That's the entire point of my article.
There's a story in business where 2 men are sent to china in 1900 to sell shoes. When they get there, nobody is wearing shoes. One guy sends a telegram home and says "I resign, nobody here wears shoes. What the heck am I supposed to do.". The other guy sends a telegram saying "huge opportunity! Everyone here needs shoes!". That's the way I view the manning-brady debate. They can both go 20-25 for 200 yards with a td and an int. Where I live, half the people will walk around saying, "did you see brady's td - he's the best!" and the other half will walk around saying, "did you see manning's int, he's the worst!". They had the same game but people focus on whatever will yield the conclusion they want.
5 months ago
Excellent article...I am an unabashed Manning supporter but have come to accept that he and Brady are equals or damn close to it. The arguments are strongly in Brady's corner right now, but if Manning goes to the Superbowl next year, the backers will flow into his corner. Good research, good details, good points. Hopefully this argument, as well as the colts v. pats rivalry, will have legs on it for the next 4-6 years...it's def. the best thing going in football.
4 months ago
Again you prove his point of people seeing what they want to. So Brady couldn't make it down the field with 1:30 left? Hmmmm, that's funny since that is just about the amount of time both Manning brothers drove down the field for game-winning drives against Brady's team. Eli even did it this year before the SB with 47 secs completing a drive before halftime against the Dallas Cowboys. So the Mannings put their respective teams in position to win, yet in your own words you yourself claim your own QB cannot? It is funny how fans of Brady place blame on the defense rather than giving the opponent appropriate credit. Had the defense held off the Giants last drive Brady would have been given all the credit being clutch again and another manning would have been called a choke.
4 months ago
Brady can't put his team in position to win? Oddly enough he did that 18 games this past season.
4 months ago
And you just proved the last of my statements of perception. Brady put them in position to win 18 games? Ok so Brady was on the field and sacked Manning twice in the last 2 mins of this season's game? So Brady is responsible for the timeout called by the Baltimore Defense that ultimately cost them that game? So Brady is responsible for A.J. Feeley throwing the interception in the endzone that could have been the game-winning score? Brady did none of that, the defense did, yet as I said before ppl give Brady all the credit. Considering the lack of offense in these games, if you're not giving the defense the credit they deserve you must be fair in the reverse. With the "greatest offense in NFL history" Brady failed to produce and actually had them in positions to lose.
from 4 months ago
You stated "So the Mannings put their respective teams in position to win, yet in your own words you yourself claim your own QB cannot?". I simply stated that Brady had put the Pats in the position to win 18 games last season. No, Brady didn't do any of things you said, but then again I didn't see Vrable or Bruschi breaking any TD records either. Take Brady and the offense out of the game and tell me how many points the defense would've scored. You're trying to prove that everyone gives all the credit to Brady-who is a member of the first team that was announced as a team rather than individually at a Super Bowl, a member of a team who goes by the rule "the Patriots way" believing in the team as a whole, a member of the team that played an entire season one week at a time and constantly said that the team won, not that the individuals won-for anyone to not acknowledge the defense is simply absurd-that I agree with, and I never said that, nor did I say that Brady won the games or gave him credit. I said that he put his team in position to win. When I speak of the Pats winning, should I mention the O-line, D-line, special teams, coaching staff, the entire Kraft family, the towel boys, the parking lot attendants....or can I just say the Pats won?
The funny thing is that I don't disagree with you about your point. I agree that the QB on EVERY team gets the spotlight more than any other player on the team, and is mentioned more than anyone on the team, too...which is probably the main reason why it's always "Manning and the Giants" or "Brady and the Pats" or "Grossman and the Bears"-when the media constantly throws the same name in your face over and over and over, then people are bound to start giving credit to the same "Manning and the Giants" or "Brady and the Pats" rather than the team as a whole.
Me? I'll give credit to the team rather than to one person. Brady did put the Pats in position to win 18 games this year-but the team did the winning and losing, not just Brady.
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